• no space left on device

    From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 13:00:02 2025
    Hi all,

    I've recently purchased Samsung 990 PRO Heatsink NVMe M.2 SSD 4TB.

    I installed it on board of a modern beefy Ubuntu 22.04 system and
    formatted with GPT/NTFS.

    I started copying (with rsync) a large chunk of data to that drive (26+
    million files, tens of thousands of folders, about 2TB in total).

    I copied from an internal 8TB SATA HDD formatted with ext4.

    After running for several hours, it refused to continue due to "no space
    left on device".

    I've confirmed the problem trying to save a text file there, same error.

    That much has been copied so far:

    find /mnt/nvme0n1p1 -type f | wc -l
    19868844

    find /mnt/nvme0n1p1 -type d | wc -l
    9327

    When I look at space and inodes use though, it reports plenty left:

    df -hT /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/nvme0n1p1 fuseblk 3.7T 1.1T 2.6T 30% /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    df -i /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    Filesystem Inodes IUsed IFree IUse% Mounted on
    /dev/nvme0n1p1 2768000256 19888329 2748111927 1% /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    What else could it be and how to fix it?

    Regards,
    Adam

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alain D D Williams@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 13:10:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 11:49:25AM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:

    I started copying (with rsync) a large chunk of data to that drive (26+ million files, tens of thousands of folders, about 2TB in total).

    That much has been copied so far:

    find /mnt/nvme0n1p1 -type f | wc -l
    19868844

    That command will tell you the length of all the file paths (names) that have been created. To see what you have put on the disk you should use:

    du -sh /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    du -shi /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    find /mnt/nvme0n1p1 -type d | wc -l
    9327

    To see how full the disk is:

    df -h /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    df -hi /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    --
    Alain Williams
    Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer.
    +44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
    Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
    #include <std_disclaimer.h>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 13:40:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 11:49:25 +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    After running for several hours, it refused to continue due to "no space
    left on device".

    I've confirmed the problem trying to save a text file there, same error.

    Please show us all of the details, *including* the actual error message
    that you got, *with* the command that produced it.

    It's especially important to have the exact command (pasted, not retyped)
    when it's rsync, because rsync is extremely finicky about trailing
    slashes, among other things.

    Make sure we know which directory you're in (do a "pwd" if your prompt
    does not make it clear), and which user you are (do an "id").

    df -hT /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/nvme0n1p1 fuseblk 3.7T 1.1T 2.6T 30% /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    df -i /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    Filesystem Inodes IUsed IFree IUse% Mounted on
    /dev/nvme0n1p1 2768000256 19888329 2748111927 1% /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    That level of detail is good, but we don't know that /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    is actually the directory you're writing to. Also, for some odd
    reason, your shell prompts are missing from the pasted commands.

    It would be better to show "df -h" and "df -i" without the directory
    argument, so that we can see if some *other* file system is full,
    which may be the one you're writing to.

    Finally, please show the mount options of whatever file system is
    full. This means grepping something out of the output of "mount".
    It can be difficult to get the right line sometimes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 15:10:01 2025
    Hi Greg,

    The last few line before termination were:

    47,997 100% 2.29MB/s 0:00:00 (xfr#19403697, to-chk=0/25525501)
    rsync: [receiver] mkstemp
    "/mnt/nvme0n1p1/data-mirror/20241231/.task_id.OyhQxa" failed: No space
    left on device (28)
    sent 1,889,449,185,360 bytes received 387,102,958 bytes 48,283,396.69 bytes/sec
    total size is 2,087,584,400,832 speedup is 1.10
    rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors)
    (code 23) at main.c(1338) [sender=3.2.7]

    The command was:

    rsync -av /mnt/sdb1/data-mirror/ /mnt/nvme0n1p1/data-mirror/ --progress --delete

    executed as root from /root in "screen" mode.

    So that it could be resumed / viewed if the terminal closed.

    I'm also pasting output of what Alain asked for earlier:

    root@eagle:~# du -sh /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    1.1T /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    root@eagle:~# du -shi /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    du: invalid option -- 'i'
    Try 'du --help' for more information.

    root@eagle:~# df -h /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/nvme0n1p1 3.7T 1.1T 2.6T 30% /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    root@eagle:~# df -hi /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    Filesystem Inodes IUsed IFree IUse% Mounted on
    /dev/nvme0n1p1 2.6G 19M 2.6G 1% /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    and this is the source:

    root@eagle:~# df -hT /mnt/sdb1/
    Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/sdb1 ext4 7.3T 6.0T 943G 87% /mnt/sdb1

    Mount options of the destination as requested:

    root@eagle:~# mount | grep /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    /dev/nvme0n1p1 on /mnt/nvme0n1p1 type fuseblk (rw,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,allow_other,blksize=4096)

    Let me know if you want to see anything else.

    Regards,
    Adam

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 15:20:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 14:05:46 +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Mount options of the destination as requested:

    root@eagle:~# mount | grep /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    /dev/nvme0n1p1 on /mnt/nvme0n1p1 type fuseblk (rw,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,allow_other,blksize=4096)

    What on earth is a fuseblk? Google says that an Ubuntu forum says
    that:

    Mar 15, 2009 — Ther short answer is that "fuseblk" is just how an
    ntfs partition is reported via the "mount" command, among others.

    So this is an NTFS file system that you're writing to? I think that's
    got to be related to your problems somehow. Maybe you're exceeding
    some limit in the Linux NTFS driver (single file size, total capacity,
    who knows).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 15:30:01 2025
    Source is sdb1, target is nvme0n1p1

    rsync -av /mnt/sdb1/data-mirror/ /mnt/nvme0n1p1/data-mirror/ --progress --delete

    root@eagle:~# df -h /mnt/nvme0n1p1
    Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/nvme0n1p1 3.7T 1.1T 2.6T 30% /mnt/nvme0n1p1

    Your target has 1,1 TB free.


    and this is the source:

    root@eagle:~# df -hT /mnt/sdb1/
    Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/sdb1 ext4 7.3T 6.0T 943G 87% /mnt/sdb1

    And your source goz 6.0TB of data. This will never fit on your target, as it
    is (see above) only 3.7TB big.

    Mount options of the destination as requested:

    Maybe this is the reason?

    Best

    Hans

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stefan Fuhrmann@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 15:30:01 2025
    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    Am 14.01.25 um 15:12 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
    ntfs partition is reported via the "mount" command, among others.

    So this is an NTFS file system that you're writing to? I think that's
    got to be related to your problems somehow. Maybe you're exceeding
    some limit in the Linux NTFS driver (single file size, total capacity,
    who knows).

    yes, format with ext4 or btrfs or ...

    you know parted`?

    https://gparted.org/livecd.php


    Greets

    Stefan

    <!DOCTYPE html>
    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    </head>
    <body>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 14.01.25 um 15:12 schrieb Greg
    Wooledge:<span style="white-space: pre-wrap">
    </span></div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:[email protected]">
    <pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre"> ntfs partition is reported via the "mount" command, among others.

    So this is an NTFS file system that you're writing to? I think that's
    got to be related to your problems somehow. Maybe you're exceeding
    some limit in the Linux NTFS driver (single file size, total capacity,
    who knows).
    </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>yes, format with ext4 or btrfs or ...</p>
    <p>you know parted`?</p>
    <p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gparted.org/livecd.php">https://gparted.org/livecd.php</a></p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Greets</p>
    <p>Stefan<br>
    </p>
    </body>
    </html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 15:40:01 2025
    Google says:

    When an NTFS partition is reported as "FUSEBLK", it means that the
    partition is being mounted with the FUSE file system in userspace. This
    is normal and allows non-root users to read and write to the partition.

    "FUSEBLK" is just how an NTFS partition is reported via the "mount"
    command, among others. This is how NTFS-3g operates. It is normal.
    Hence, as long as you have permission to mount and access the device,
    it's OK, and you shouldn't worry about anything.

    The hard limitations of NTFS fuseblk on Ubuntu are related to the
    maximum file size and the maximum number of files.

    Maximum file size
    The maximum theoretical file size for NTFS is 16 EB minus 1 KB.
    However, the maximum implemented file size for Windows 10 version 1709
    and Windows Server 2019 is 8 PB minus 2 MB.

    Maximum number of files
    The maximum number of files on an NTFS disk is 4,294,967,295.
    The maximum number of files in a single NTFS folder is 4,294,967,295.

    I'm not even close...

    Adam

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 15:50:01 2025
    Hi Hans,

    You are incorrect, the source (directory) is 2TB in size:

    root@eagle:~# du -sh /mnt/sdb1/data-mirror
    2.0T /mnt/sdb1/data-mirror

    and the destination drive (started blank and empty) reported 3.7 TB
    capacity.

    The question is why rsync and disk space tools disagree whether there
    should be space available or not.

    Regards,
    Adam

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Klaus Singvogel@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 16:00:01 2025
    Adam Weremczuk wrote:

    The command was:

    rsync -av /mnt/sdb1/data-mirror/ /mnt/nvme0n1p1/data-mirror/ --progress --delete

    If you're running out of disk space, use option "--delete-before" instead of "--delete"

    But the option --delete-before is more dangerous, as you might loose files, when the rsync fails:
    • you first wipe out all files, which are non-existend in the source.
    • you don't copy the successor files, as the operation fails

    There's a potential risk of data loss. So, handle this option with care, and know, I made this experience in the past.

    Best regards,
    Klaus.
    --
    Klaus Singvogel
    GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D 1994-06-27

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stefan Monnier@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 15:50:01 2025
    After running for several hours, it refused to continue due to "no space
    left on device".
    I've confirmed the problem trying to save a text file there, same error.

    Hmm... I don't see anything amiss in the data you sent, so I'm afraid
    I don't know what's going on. Have you tried to delete one of the files
    you just wrote (just to see if other modifications still work,
    rather than the system behaving as if it's read-only)?

    Any message about your NVMe device (or its filesystem) in dmesg?

    What else could it be and how to fix it?

    Have you tried unmount+remount? 🙁


    Stefan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Stefan Monnier on Tue Jan 14 16:00:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 09:48:36AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote:
    After running for several hours, it refused to continue due to "no space
    left on device".
    I've confirmed the problem trying to save a text file there, same error.

    Hmm... I don't see anything amiss in the data you sent, so I'm afraid
    I don't know what's going on. Have you tried to delete one of the files
    you just wrote (just to see if other modifications still work,
    rather than the system behaving as if it's read-only)?

    Thing is, if I've been following along correct, a "touch" in this state
    also returns ENOSPC. So either the file system is in a funny state, or
    the ntfs driver has some limitations this side of NTFS.

    Two things might be interesting:

    - anything in the kernel logs while the error happens?
    - does the ENOSPC also happen when appending to one
    of the files on that file system (this might help to
    discriminate between "too many entries" or "not enough
    available space")?

    Any message about your NVMe device (or its filesystem) in dmesg?

    Yep: kernel messages would be the next interesting thing.

    Cheers
    --
    t

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCZ4Z7ggAKCRAFyCz1etHa RqLlAJ0fM9svmWDG6aOBAxjW+tc512ThJACfdqWmslFIfPmz9eqvqKzzAQQ378Q=
    =zKQR
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Felix Miata@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 16:00:02 2025
    Greg Wooledge composed on 2025-01-14 07:30 (UTC-0500):

    Finally, please show the mount options of whatever file system is
    full. This means grepping something out of the output of "mount".
    It can be difficult to get the right line sometimes.

    I have the following in ~/.bashrc for making that easier:

    alias Mnt='mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|ramfs|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" | sort '
    --
    Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
    based on faith, not based on science.

    Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

    Felix Miata

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Klaus Singvogel on Tue Jan 14 16:10:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 03:58:50PM +0100, Klaus Singvogel wrote:
    Adam Weremczuk wrote:

    The command was:

    rsync -av /mnt/sdb1/data-mirror/ /mnt/nvme0n1p1/data-mirror/ --progress --delete

    If you're running out of disk space, use option "--delete-before" instead of "--delete"

    Indeed, that's a good point: if there is one file big enough, double its size could
    trip up things.

    Cheers
    --
    t

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCZ4Z8CwAKCRAFyCz1etHa Ru8lAJ4tcH2jisEhyVW9WBpqN6Qc4YLfewCeLDsHq6bPkvBSv1DvUiS/8P7YHHk=
    =CnO/
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andy Smith@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 16:30:01 2025
    Hi Adam,

    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 02:32:25PM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    "FUSEBLK" is just how an NTFS partition is reported via the "mount" command, among others. This is how NTFS-3g operates. It is normal. Hence, as long as you have permission to mount and access the device, it's OK, and you shouldn't worry about anything.

    It may be normal for an NTFS device to be mounted by FUSE in Linux, but
    it doesn't make it a "normal" Linux filesystem. At most I think you
    could say it is expected to see that and not to worry *about it saying fuseblk*.

    With FUSE there's a few more complications and places where bugs can
    occur.

    I think I would blow away the NTFS partition and put a normal ext4 one
    there instead, just to see if things work as expected. If they do then
    you've narrowed the problem down to the ntfs FUSE driver. You will then
    want to report that bug to Ubuntu.

    If it fails the same way with ext4, possibly it might be time to start investigating if you have a genuine NVMe device and not a shady fake one
    that only pretends to have a larger capacity. I think that's unlikely,
    but it happens. There is a tool called "f3" for checking this. It is
    packaged in Debian so probably is in Ubuntu also.

    Thanks,
    Andy

    --
    https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 16:20:01 2025
    Good idea, Klaus!

    It looks like Adam wants to copy a Windows system to another drive. Maybe he could delete hyberfile.sys, pagefile.sys and swapfile.sys before rsyncing.

    These are not necessary and will be recreated at boot from Windows next time.

    Just an idea....

    Hans
    My assumption is: this source file has over 1.7 TB size, and as your target disk has 3.7 TB size, and the target disk is already 1.1 TB full, it won't fit.

    Best regards,
    Klaus.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 16:30:01 2025
    All files copied were under 500 MB in size each, guaranteed.

    No dmesg entries from around the copy failure time.

    Syslog reveals this:

    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No
    space left on device
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: message repeated 40 times: [ No
    free mft record for $MFT: No space left on device]
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle smartd[988]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], SMART
    Prefailure Attribute: 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate changed from 81 to 76
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle smartd[988]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], SMART Usage Attribute: 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel changed from 64 to 65
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle smartd[988]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], SMART Usage Attribute: 194 Temperature_Celsius changed from 36 to 35
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle smartd[988]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], SMART Usage Attribute: 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered changed from 81 to 76
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No
    space left on device
    Jan 13 19:46:15 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: message repeated 3154 times: [ No
    free mft record for $MFT: No space left on device]

    Is it some kind of NVMe temp garbage overhead?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to Hans on Tue Jan 14 16:40:01 2025
    I need NTFS to connect it to a WS 2019 machine later.

    I thought it would be easier than fiddling with WSL or pay for something
    like: https://www.paragon-software.com/home/linuxfs-windows/ (which
    seems decent)

    On 14/01/2025 15:14, Hans wrote:
    Good idea, Klaus!

    It looks like Adam wants to copy a Windows system to another drive. Maybe he could delete hyberfile.sys, pagefile.sys and swapfile.sys before rsyncing.

    These are not necessary and will be recreated at boot from Windows next time.

    Just an idea....

    Hans

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 16:50:01 2025
    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    Am Dienstag, 14. Januar 2025, 16:25:02 CET schrieb Adam Weremczuk:

    Syslog reveals this:

    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No
    space left on device


    --------------------


    Hmm, MFT too small? A quick search showed me this (from a forum):

    Note that Dell computers we received were all delivered with 50% MFT reserve. We use many
    large files and reducing the MFT reserve to 12.5% saved these machines from being dog slow
    when they ‘filled up’ quickly.
    How much MFT space is needed? *My rule of thumb for estimating is ‘number of files times 4k
    divided by total drive size’. The result is the percent of drive space needed for MFT. *As you
    note, the actual requirement will vary… but you have to start some place!

    --------------------

    Howsever, I suppose, others know better than me, like before, just an idea...

    Best

    Hans

    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    </head>
    <body><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Am Dienstag, 14. Januar 2025, 16:25:02 CET schrieb Adam Weremczuk:</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; Syslog reveals this:</p>
    <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; </p> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No</p>
    <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">&gt; space left on device</p>
    <br /><br /><hr />
    <br /><br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Hmm, MFT too small? A quick search showed me this (from a forum):</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Note that Dell computers we received were all delivered with 50% MFT reserve. We use many large files and reducing the MFT reserve to 12.5% saved these machines from being dog
    slow when they ‘filled up’ quickly.</p>
    <p style="margin-top:12;margin-bottom:12;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">How much MFT space is needed? <strong>My rule of thumb for estimating is ‘number of files times 4k divided by total drive size’. The result is the percent of drive space needed
    for MFT. </strong>As you note, the actual requirement will vary… but you have to start some place!</p>
    <br /><hr />
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Howsever, I suppose, others know better than me, like before, just an idea...</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Best</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Hans</p>
    </body>
    </html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stefan Fuhrmann@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 17:00:01 2025
    Am 14.01.25 um 16:30 schrieb Adam Weremczuk:
    I need NTFS to connect it to a WS 2019 machine later.

    I thought it would be easier than fiddling with WSL or pay for
    something like: https://www.paragon-software.com/home/linuxfs-windows/
    (which seems decent)


    Why do you connect the HD to 2019 machine and copy then over network?

    Stefan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 17:10:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 15:25:02 +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No space left on device
    Jan 13 19:46:15 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: message repeated 3154 times: [ No free mft record for $MFT: No space left on device]

    The first Google result I get is:

    https://github.com/FOGProject/fogproject/issues/421

    You may want to do your own searches, because your results may be better
    tuned to your needs, especially if you've been using NTFS file systems.

    This is *absolutely* something to do with NTFS, so I don't know how much
    help we'll be able to give.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Loris Bennett@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 17:10:01 2025
    Hi Adam,

    Adam Weremczuk <[email protected]> writes:

    All files copied were under 500 MB in size each, guaranteed.

    No dmesg entries from around the copy failure time.

    Syslog reveals this:

    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No
    space left on device
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: message repeated 40 times: [ No
    free mft record for $MFT: No space left on device]
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle smartd[988]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], SMART
    Prefailure Attribute: 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate changed from 81 to 76
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle smartd[988]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], SMART Usage Attribute: 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel changed from 64 to 65
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle smartd[988]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], SMART Usage Attribute: 194 Temperature_Celsius changed from 36 to 35
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle smartd[988]: Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], SMART Usage Attribute: 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered changed from 81 to 76
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No
    space left on device
    Jan 13 19:46:15 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: message repeated 3154 times: [ No
    free mft record for $MFT: No space left on device]

    Is it some kind of NVMe temp garbage overhead?

    Possibly. I haven't been following the thread very attentively and have no particular expertise, but maybe you are running to an issue similar to
    the one described in the link below where the garbage collection of the
    NVMe's internal index of space usage doesn't happen fast enough:

    https://github.com/FOGProject/fogproject/issues/421#issuecomment-1507351213

    Cheers,

    Loris

    --
    This signature is currently under constuction.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stefan Monnier@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 17:50:01 2025
    Is it some kind of NVMe temp garbage overhead?

    No, it's a problem at the ntfs-3g level, not the NVMe level.

    Possibly. I haven't been following the thread very attentively and have no particular expertise, but maybe you are running to an issue similar to
    the one described in the link below where the garbage collection of the NVMe's internal index of space usage doesn't happen fast enough:

    https://github.com/FOGProject/fogproject/issues/421#issuecomment-1507351213

    That comment is very confused about the way SSDs work: all that garbage-collection work is completely hidden (save for their
    performance effects).

    The error message you see can be found in https://github.com/tuxera/ntfs-3g/blob/edge/libntfs-3g/mft.c
    but I'm not sufficiently familiar with NTFS nor with that code to
    figure out what's really going on.

    From what I could find, the MFT (Master File Table) sounds similar to
    a table of inodes, and it should grow as needed, so it seems like "no
    free mft record" should never occur, but maybe that's not implemented in ntfs-3g or something?

    I suggest you file it as a bug report with the ntfs-3g guys.


    Stefan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Klaus Singvogel@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Tue Jan 14 17:40:01 2025
    Greg Wooledge wrote:
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 15:25:02 +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No space left on device
    Jan 13 19:46:15 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: message repeated 3154 times: [ No free mft record for $MFT: No space left on device]

    [...]
    This is *absolutely* something to do with NTFS, so I don't know how much
    help we'll be able to give.

    Thats what I think too.

    In the meantime, I have the feeling, that it's either the broken firmware, that Jeffrey Walton already mentioned, or something that needs to be fixed under Windows.

    I would suggest updating the firmware first, and then fixing the MFT on a Windows machine:

    https://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2023/03/14/samsung-990-pro-critical-firmware- update/ https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/repairing-windows-mft/67d47df6-14a1-4169-8b81-89d7bb09edc8

    Best regards,
    Klaus.
    --
    Klaus Singvogel
    GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D 1994-06-27

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 17:50:01 2025
    On 1/14/25 10:30, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    On 14/01/2025 15:14, Hans wrote:

    It looks like Adam wants to copy a Windows system to another drive. Maybe he >> could delete hyberfile.sys, pagefile.sys and swapfile.sys before rsyncing. >>
    These are not necessary and will be recreated at boot from Windows next time.

    Just an idea....

    I need NTFS to connect it to a WS 2019 machine later.

    I thought it would be easier than fiddling with WSL or pay for something like: https://www.paragon-software.com/home/linuxfs-windows/ (which seems decent)

    Why not do the copying with a Linux-booting thumb drive, and make the NVME drive have whatever filesystem works with that?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Stone@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 18:10:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 03:30:17PM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    I need NTFS to connect it to a WS 2019 machine later.

    Have you considered exfat? Support for that on linux is much better than ntfs.

    At the very least I'd format the drive as anything other than ntfs and
    retry as suggested elsewhere to confirm that it actually works as
    expected. (Storage fraud really is a thing, where people sell drives
    that have less storage than reported, on the theory that most people
    won't fill it up in time to get their money back.)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Hans on Tue Jan 14 19:00:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 04:40:12PM +0100, Hans wrote:
    Am Dienstag, 14. Januar 2025, 16:25:02 CET schrieb Adam Weremczuk:

    Syslog reveals this:

    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No
    space left on device


    --------------------


    Hmm, MFT too small? A quick search showed me this (from a forum):

    Note that Dell computers we received were all delivered with 50% MFT reserve. We use many
    large files and reducing the MFT reserve to 12.5% saved these machines from being dog slow
    when they ‘filled up’ quickly.
    How much MFT space is needed? *My rule of thumb for estimating is ‘number of files times 4k
    divided by total drive size’. The result is the percent of drive space needed for MFT. *As you
    note, the actual requirement will vary… but you have to start some place!

    Ah -- good catch. According to the man page, you can pass an "mft zone multiplier"
    to mkfs.ntfs (option -z), with values 1..4 corresponding to 12.5%..50%, default being 1 (12.5%). Perhaps the OP has more luck with bigger values?

    Howsever, I suppose, others know better than me, like before, just an idea...

    No, no -- I think you were spot-on!

    Cheers
    --
    t

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCZ4al/wAKCRAFyCz1etHa RioqAJ9hi6kb24mKikp+V/AtxWxkpx8qewCdHnl6af0FrvhDNnJKQJXZwKsno80=
    =usoN
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 19:00:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 03:25:02PM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    All files copied were under 500 MB in size each, guaranteed.

    No dmesg entries from around the copy failure time.

    Syslog reveals this:

    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No space left on device

    Aha. This seems to be an error coming from the ntfs implementation (at
    least, the Intertubes suggest that).

    mft == NTFS master file table, according to the Intertubes.

    No idea, though, how to fix that.

    Cheers
    --
    t

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCZ4ak8AAKCRAFyCz1etHa Rg9pAJwLkfs6aTL3RNbCTx/5/OEo4QT2LQCffa5n6XKyPsLH+2ZyHdeaEbQrzQg=
    =EIPb
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to Michael Stone on Tue Jan 14 19:20:01 2025
    I bought the drive from Amazon and everything looks very genuine.

    Nvme tool reports:

    $ sudo nvme list

    Node SN Model
    Namespace Usage Format FW Rev --------------------- -------------------- ---------------------------------------- ---------
    -------------------------- ---------------- --------
    /dev/nvme0n1 S7DSNJ0X910743Z Samsung SSD 990 PRO with
    Heatsink 4TB 1 1.19 TB / 4.00 TB 512 B + 0 B
    4B2QJXD7

    The firmware seems to be the latest version: https://semiconductor.samsung.com/consumer-storage/support/tools/

    I'm giving exfat a shot and so far I'm impressed with 160 MB/s average
    transfer rate (HDD -> NVMe).

    That's significantly faster than before.

    Partially because I'm using "rsync -avh --no-perms --no-group --no-owner
    ..." this time.


    On 14/01/2025 17:02, Michael Stone wrote:
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 03:30:17PM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    I need NTFS to connect it to a WS 2019 machine later.

    Have you considered exfat? Support for that on linux is much better than ntfs.

    At the very least I'd format the drive as anything other than ntfs and
    retry as suggested elsewhere to confirm that it actually works as
    expected. (Storage fraud really is a thing, where people sell drives
    that have less storage than reported, on the theory that most people
    won't fill it up in time to get their money back.)


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Stone@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Tue Jan 14 21:30:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 06:13:44PM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    I'm giving exfat a shot and so far I'm impressed with 160 MB/s average >transfer rate (HDD -> NVMe).

    That's significantly faster than before.

    Partially because I'm using "rsync -avh --no-perms --no-group
    --no-owner ..." this time.

    fuse is slow in general and that applies to ntfs-3g. There's a kernel
    exfat module which will offer performance similar to any other native filesystem. I wouldn't expect permissions or ownership to matter in any significant way (the files are to be stat'd on read regardless, and
    exfat will ignore them). Assuming this works you can try using the ntfs3
    kernel driver rather than ntfs-3g and you'll probably see much better performance. That said, all of the ntfs drivers are reverse-engineered,
    while MS has published a specification for exfat (which is also a much
    simpler filesystem). For file transfer purposes unless you need to
    preserve permissions I'd stick with exfat.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From gene heskett@21:1/5 to Michael Stone on Tue Jan 14 21:40:02 2025
    On 1/14/25 12:03, Michael Stone wrote:
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 03:30:17PM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    I need NTFS to connect it to a WS 2019 machine later.

    Have you considered exfat? Support for that on linux is much better
    than ntfs.

    At the very least I'd format the drive as anything other than ntfs and
    retry as suggested elsewhere to confirm that it actually works as
    expected. (Storage fraud really is a thing, where people sell drives
    that have less storage than reported, on the theory that most people
    won't fill it up in time to get their money back.)
    I have a box of those, bought as 4T's, are actually 64k sd cards with a
    usb2 interface.  all in one neat pkg. By the time shipped, from Amazon
    30 day warranty expired.

    .

    Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
    --
    "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
    soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
    -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
    If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
    - Louis D. Brandeis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Christensen@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Wed Jan 15 04:30:01 2025
    On 1/14/25 10:13, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    On 14/01/2025 17:02, Michael Stone wrote:
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 03:30:17PM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    I need NTFS to connect it to a WS 2019 machine later.
    ... (Storage fraud really is a thing, where people sell drives
    that have less storage than reported, on the theory that most people
    won't fill it up in time to get their money back.)

    I bought the drive from Amazon and everything looks very genuine.

    Nvme tool reports:

    $ sudo nvme list

    Node                  SN                   Model            Namespace
    Usage                      Format           FW Rev
    --------------------- -------------------- ---------------------------------------- ---------
    -------------------------- ---------------- -------- /dev/nvme0n1          S7DSNJ0X910743Z      Samsung SSD 990 PRO with
    Heatsink 4TB    1           1.19  TB /   4.00  TB    512   B +  0 B
    4B2QJXD7

    The firmware seems to be the latest version: https:// semiconductor.samsung.com/consumer-storage/support/tools/

    I'm giving exfat a shot and so far I'm impressed with 160 MB/s average transfer rate (HDD -> NVMe).

    That's significantly faster than before.

    Partially because I'm using "rsync -avh --no-perms --no-group --no-
    owner ..." this time.


    I suggest that you unmount any filesystems on the SSD and then fill the
    SSD with random bytes using dd(1). Something like:

    # time dd if=/dev/randome of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m status=progress


    Alternatively, fill the drive using a PRNG so that you can read the
    stream back and validate it.


    Please post the complete console session -- prompt(s), command(s)
    issued, and output displayed.


    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andy Smith@21:1/5 to David Christensen on Wed Jan 15 04:50:01 2025
    Hi David,

    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 07:28:28PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
    I suggest that you unmount any filesystems on the SSD and then fill the SSD with random bytes using dd(1).

    If the purpose of this is to check that the full capacity of the NVMe is working, the f3 tool that is already packaged in Debian makes this job
    much more straightforward.

    But OP's problem is more likely to be some issue with the ntfs-3g driver
    or the NTFS filesystem on the NVMe.

    Thanks,
    Andy

    --
    https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Christensen@21:1/5 to Andy Smith on Wed Jan 15 06:00:01 2025
    On 1/14/25 19:42, Andy Smith wrote:
    Hi David,

    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 07:28:28PM -0800, David Christensen wrote:
    I suggest that you unmount any filesystems on the SSD and then fill the SSD >> with random bytes using dd(1).

    If the purpose of this is to check that the full capacity of the NVMe is working, the f3 tool that is already packaged in Debian makes this job
    much more straightforward.


    Thank you for pointing out the f3 suite. I agree that purpose-built
    tools should be easier and should produce better results than improvised
    shell commands::

    https://oss.digirati.com.br/f3/


    But OP's problem is more likely to be some issue with the ntfs-3g driver
    or the NTFS filesystem on the NVMe.


    It will be interesting to see what the root cause issue(s) are once they
    have been identified. I think that validating the hardware with f3
    tools is a reasonable step at this point.


    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Michael Stone on Wed Jan 15 06:00:01 2025
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 03:26:17PM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 06:13:44PM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    I'm giving exfat a shot and so far I'm impressed with 160 MB/s average transfer rate (HDD -> NVMe).

    That's significantly faster than before.

    Partially because I'm using "rsync -avh --no-perms --no-group --no-owner ..." this time.

    fuse is slow in general and that applies to ntfs-3g. There's a kernel exfat module which will offer performance similar to any other native filesystem.

    [...]

    See the other thread. The problem isn't speed or ntfs-3g. It is most
    probably that the NTFS is running out of mft records [1], a resource
    you set up when making the ntfs file system. Man mkntfs(8), option
    -z.

    Thanks Hans for spotting it.

    Cheers

    [1] https://sourceforge.net/p/ntfs-3g/mailman/ntfs-3g-devel/thread/Luj1mMdNTzhmN_rirQUn04gV3gjUiBbssQlI7kKokpUZqqBcg9_Nsh40PNCwmZ1JqSmjR3RGUCdobNu-r9f83M4wwyVnC3CyXEb8KyySmWs%3D%40protonmail.com/#msg36452635
    --
    tomás

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCZ4c/NwAKCRAFyCz1etHa RnALAJ9T+vSDGvfJEZLmbs99cZEIbWuFCACfVYiYAQn4weSTilkSVJTN4AgMySI=
    =lOqn
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 10:00:02 2025
    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    I also have another idea:

    It looks for me, the user wants to get the data on an notebook with NVME and later copy it to a
    Windows 2019.

    If so, I personally would do it in naother way using a lifesystem.

    I would boot a live system and format the NVME with ext4. As the source and the target ist
    NTFS/GPT related, one need not care of ownerships, hard- and softlinks and so on. Just copy
    files.

    Then, after transfer, boot a linux-lifesystem on the Windows 2019 hardware, mount the target
    (using ntfs-3g or mount, dependent of the filesystem) and then rsync the data to the Windows
    2019 harddrive.

    Doing so, there should be no problems with MFT or similar.


    --------------------
    Another idea, which came in my mind, to pack the whole source folder into one single file (i.e.
    with tar or 7z or zip whatever) and then transfer this to the NVME. Yes, I know, transferring
    very large files is a very bad idea, because the danger loosing bits during transfer is very high.
    It is just another possible solution.

    Personally I would prefer the above solution. However, this solution may be not acceptable,
    because the Windows 2019 may not be allowed to shutdown, because it is i.e. a 24/7-Server,
    which MUST be always available (On the other hand: if so, then I would expect a mirror server
    available, which is in cold stand by and then copy first to this, then to the other).


    --------------------
    Just 2 ideas coming into my mind, maybe it helps.

    Best regards

    Hans

    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    </head>
    <body><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">I also have another idea:</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">It looks for me, the user wants to get the data on an notebook with NVME and later copy it to a Windows 2019.</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">If so, I personally would do it in naother way using a lifesystem.</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">I would boot a live system and format the NVME with ext4. As the source and the target ist NTFS/GPT related, one need not care of ownerships, hard- and softlinks and so on. Just
    copy files.</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Then, after transfer, boot a linux-lifesystem on the Windows 2019 hardware, mount the target (using ntfs-3g or mount, dependent of the filesystem) and then rsync the data to the
    Windows 2019 harddrive.</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Doing so, there should be no problems with MFT or similar.</p>
    <br /><br /><hr />
    <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Another idea, which came in my mind, to pack the whole source folder into one single file (i.e. with tar or 7z or zip whatever) and then transfer this to the NVME. Yes, I know,
    transferring very large files is a very bad idea, because the danger loosing bits during transfer is very high. It is just another possible solution.</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Personally I would prefer the above solution. However, this solution may be not acceptable, because the Windows 2019 may not be allowed to shutdown, because it is i.e. a 24/7-
    Server, which MUST be always available (On the other hand: if so, then I would expect a mirror server available, which is in cold stand by and then copy first to this, then to the other).</p>
    <br /><br /><hr />
    <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Just 2 ideas coming into my mind, maybe it helps.</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Best regards</p>
    <br /><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Hans</p>
    </body>
    </html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 10:00:01 2025
    Jeffrey Walton (12025-01-15):
    Probably better since disk controllers often use compression to
    minimize writes and blocks written during a write cycle.

    I find that statement highly dubious. Do you have a source?

    Regards,

    --
    Nicolas George

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 10:50:02 2025
    Jeffrey Walton (12025-01-15):
    Reliably Erasing Data from Flash-Based Solid State Drives, <https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/lisa11/tech/slides/wei.pdf>,

    The word compression does not appear in this document. Would you be so
    kind as to explain why you considered it relevant?

    Practical Erase Suspension for Modern Low-latency SSDs, <https://www.usenix.org/system/files/atc19-kim-shine.pdf>, In-drive

    The word compression does not appear in this document. Would you be so
    kind as to explain why you considered it relevant?

    SSD compression boosts performance and endurance, <https://blocksandfiles.com/2019/09/03/compression-inside-qlc-ssd-endurance/> and friends.

    This looks like an uncritical quote from a drive manufacturer.
    Furthermore, it does not support your precise claim:

    Probably better since disk controllers often use compression to
    minimize writes and blocks written during a write cycle.

    --
    Nicolas george

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 11:10:02 2025
    Jeffrey Walton (12025-01-15):
    Probably better since disk controllers often use compression to minimize writes and blocks written during a write cycle.

    Using a random stream during zeroization due to write compression has
    been a security control for at least 15 years. This should be no
    surprise to anyone nowadays.

    I am not denying that. You made a different statement, that I leave
    quoted, and you have nothing to support that statement.

    --
    Nicolas George

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nicolas George@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 12:00:01 2025
    Jeffrey Walton (12025-01-15):
    Using compression to minimize writes is part of a write leveling
    strategy to extend drive life. <https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+disk+write+leveling>.

    So you say, and all you have to quote for it is a Google search result
    page. This is how far I am willing to discuss this.

    --
    Nicolas George

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Urs Thuermann@21:1/5 to Felix Miata on Wed Jan 15 12:30:02 2025
    Felix Miata <[email protected]> writes:

    I have the following in ~/.bashrc for making that easier:

    alias Mnt='mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|ramfs|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" | sort '

    mount | fgrep -vf <(awk '/^nodev/{print $2}' /proc/filesystems)

    urs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Henrik Ahlgren@21:1/5 to Nicolas George on Wed Jan 15 12:20:01 2025
    On Wed, 2025-01-15 at 11:51 +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
    Jeffrey Walton (12025-01-15):
    Using compression to minimize writes is part of a write leveling
    strategy to extend drive life. <https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+disk+write+leveling>.

    So you say, and all you have to quote for it is a Google search result
    page. This is how far I am willing to discuss this.

    NAND controllers utilizing real-time compression were somewhat common
    in early SATA SSDs more than 10 years ago. At least SandForce was known
    to do this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SandForce#Technology

    I have no idea whether modern NVME drives do this or not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Stone@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jan 15 16:50:01 2025
    On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 05:53:18AM +0100, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 03:26:17PM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
    On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 06:13:44PM +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    I'm giving exfat a shot and so far I'm impressed with 160 MB/s average
    transfer rate (HDD -> NVMe).

    That's significantly faster than before.

    Partially because I'm using "rsync -avh --no-perms --no-group --no-owner >> > ..." this time.

    fuse is slow in general and that applies to ntfs-3g. There's a kernel exfat >> module which will offer performance similar to any other native filesystem.

    [...]

    See the other thread. The problem isn't speed or ntfs-3g.

    Note that the message I replied to said that "I'm impressed with 160
    MB/s average transfer rate...That's significantly faster than before.".
    My response addressed why that would be the case: ntfs-3g will never be
    fast because it runs via fuse. I've used exfat at several hundred MB/s
    and was limited by the speed of the external drive rather than the speed
    of the fs driver. If transfer rate is important, and ntfs is a
    requirement, I would use the ntfs3 kernel driver rather than ntfs-3g.
    (Which would require a fairly recent debian kernel.)

    It is most probably that the NTFS is running out of mft records [1], a >resource you set up when making the ntfs file system. Man mkntfs(8), option

    I'm skeptical of this and feel it's more likely an ntfs-3g issue, as
    it's not normal for people to have to reformat ntfs volumes with special options in order to copy files. The thread you linked seems to support
    that hypothesis. I personally wouldn't pursue trying to fix this for
    reasons I discussed previously (vs using a different solution) which is
    why I haven't addressed it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Michael Stone on Wed Jan 15 18:00:01 2025
    On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 10:43:57AM -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
    On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 05:53:18AM +0100, [email protected] wrote:

    [...]

    It is most probably that the NTFS is running out of mft records, a
    resource you set up when making the ntfs file system [...]

    I'm skeptical of this and feel it's more likely an ntfs-3g issue, as it's
    not normal for people to have to reformat ntfs volumes [...]

    Of course, this is just my hunch, and I'vebeen known to be wrong more
    than once. OTOH, Windows folks are known to have a sizeable capacity
    for suffering, so...

    Let's see whether OP can shed some more wisdom on this.

    Cheers
    --
    tomás

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCZ4fn3wAKCRAFyCz1etHa RpBLAJ0YIsWwfRjUP8Oz4hgcMu5nYnAWjgCeIUodeO9fi+SX6ZqgzecnopKbDd0=
    =qmdI
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anssi Saari@21:1/5 to Urs Thuermann on Thu Jan 16 12:20:01 2025
    Urs Thuermann <[email protected]> writes:

    Felix Miata <[email protected]> writes:

    I have the following in ~/.bashrc for making that easier:

    alias Mnt='mount | egrep -v "cgroup|rpc|ramfs|tmpfs|^sys|on /dev|on /proc|on /sys|on /var" | sort '

    mount | fgrep -vf <(awk '/^nodev/{print $2}' /proc/filesystems)

    Thanks. It has the benefit of not showing autofs, for example. But how
    to quote that for an alias?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Anssi Saari on Thu Jan 16 13:10:01 2025
    On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 13:18:53 +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:
    Urs Thuermann <[email protected]> writes:
    mount | fgrep -vf <(awk '/^nodev/{print $2}' /proc/filesystems)

    Thanks. It has the benefit of not showing autofs, for example. But how
    to quote that for an alias?

    The simplest way is *not* to use an alias. Use a function instead.

    myfunc() { mount | fgrep -vf <(awk '/^nodev/{print $2}' /proc/filesystems); }

    Aliases are ancient, and weird, and have limitations on what they can
    do. (They also have bizarre magical powers which nothing else can
    achieve, but it's best not to go down that road.)

    When in doubt, use a function instead of an alias.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Purgert@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Mon Jan 20 13:10:02 2025
    On Jan 20, 2025, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Hi all,

    An update on my struggle.

    I followed the extfat path but I likely somehow make a noobish mistake
    and a partition was not created...

    Despite that, I was able to mount it an copy all the data across to it!

    Now when I try to mount the NVMe on a different Ubuntu system (through USB adapter) I get:

    $sudo mount /dev/sdb /mnt/sdb
    mount: /mnt/sdb: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sdb, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    You may have to tell it what the filesystem is, e.g. "mount -t exfat..."
    (I think it's 'exfat' anyway, been a while and not finding it in the
    manpage on a quick search).


    --
    |_|O|_|
    |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
    |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE3asj+xn6fYUcweBnbWVw5UznKGAFAmeOPKgACgkQbWVw5Uzn KGBV2Q//TKhbcx5paU+VVB8cIkjzEoaHPVc+c72xqcOcrIwPyWO5mAnxTyhxkZ1U a32vRAUhGArHvS04z9BzE8zZ0dtwb+aeswx1i4bp1KjNVYTZwssJmAUq6lIu2QXx whb+AwLc2Vajoeb3rFnGdPPSnC1LKfvG+fA05nhqlNjJ0hUSVsny130f1S79YOau Ab8Mju/Ni+YnhzbvrAWxeoDdUTX5AAXeGYyG6jfvKaRNosntJEQ20fpHSQEX4lVI ezwXGCQM8LGAH9n+mwVMyy+QcbZjrTPvY/1T0psXL/HNA2+9n4hwWsxr7H531PSi LwcWWewEGCyuL+CFIiNaMJFSMHlAdc87dRnmed7D+fFeyZiUjzUF8fxdBQYsHZ5H NiLbR6XD3Xk/nsba8YskK7+hqwm7POuQ8CiOZLVattZvwmCifIHg9M8sBYSPYYMv AsSEz6yqho3Quwoumdn7h+8LAxElYZHQAGSTzDr/FjT+QQeE7+yLQsydJTE9uT0L ZInXWNCMvIuUVo+7famAa+83Jir6yoNFidu0xw7FDDINLLTr+PTk8CYDT6fScdSj fADQHncJkodfBrx0AirC1koxw2XH6cIyG5V81M0JKzTXhiNUAyOdvq4exMPvQk17 GYfA1SBDf8ntnpP3yVxgMcgHdKfOiMeoX9Vl7oo6aAKq2bzj4io=
    =eM9W
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Us
  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Mon Jan 20 13:20:01 2025
    On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:56:19 +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Now when I try to mount the NVMe on a different Ubuntu system (through USB adapter) I get:

    $sudo mount /dev/sdb /mnt/sdb
    mount: /mnt/sdb: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sdb, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    $sudo parted /dev/sdb
    GNU Parted 3.4
    Using /dev/sdb
    Welcome to GNU Parted! Type 'help' to view a list of commands.
    (parted) print
    Model: Realtek RTL9210B-CG (scsi)
    Disk /dev/sdb: 4001GB
    Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
    Partition Table: msdos
    Disk Flags:

    Number Start End Size Type File system Flags

    (parted)

    You're trying to mount an entire disk, but that disk has an msdos
    partition table with *no* partitions.

    There are several problems here:

    1) An msdos partition table only supports disks up to 2 TB and yours
    is 4 TB.

    2) You didn't create any partitions.

    3) You didn't create an exfat file system, either on the raw device or
    on a partition.

    My advice would be:

    1) Put a GPT partition table on the disk instead of msdos.

    2) Create a single partition that spans all the usable space.

    3) Create an exfat file system on that partition.

    After that, you should be able to mount /dev/sdb1 wherever you like.

    An alternative path would be:

    1) Create an exfat file system on the raw device (/dev/sdb).

    2) Mount /dev/sdb directly.

    I don't think this is wise, simply because it may lead to surprises
    in the future, when you forget that you've done it this way, or when
    someone else tries to use this disk and expects it to have partitions.
    However, it *is* a choice that you could make.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Mon Jan 20 14:00:01 2025
    How about the data already written to the unpartitioned disk?
    It doesn't sound like either of the paths gives me any hope.

    I don't care about the data or wiping the drive later as soon as I copy existing content over to WS 2019 local NTFS drive.
    But I can't afford to spend 3 days again processing and writing it.
    The NVMe is needed for something else.

    Gparted seems to recognise the fact that 53% of space has data written
    to it. It also knows about the extfat system.
    This morning, when I viewed the drive through gparted on a new machine
    for the first time, it specifically complained about exfatprogs missing
    and told me to install it.

    I'm also wondering why a lack of partition wasn't reported in earlier
    stages and I managed to mount /dev/sdb instead of /dev/sdb1 and write to it?


    On 20/01/2025 12:15, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    You're trying to mount an entire disk, but that disk has an msdos
    partition table with*no* partitions.

    There are several problems here:

    1) An msdos partition table only supports disks up to 2 TB and yours
    is 4 TB.

    2) You didn't create any partitions.

    3) You didn't create an exfat file system, either on the raw device or
    on a partition.

    My advice would be:

    1) Put a GPT partition table on the disk instead of msdos.

    2) Create a single partition that spans all the usable space.

    3) Create an exfat file system on that partition.

    After that, you should be able to mount /dev/sdb1 wherever you like.

    An alternative path would be:

    1) Create an exfat file system on the raw device (/dev/sdb).

    2) Mount /dev/sdb directly.

    I don't think this is wise, simply because it may lead to surprises
    in the future, when you forget that you've done it this way, or when
    someone else tries to use this disk and expects it to have partitions. However, it*is* a choice that you could make.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Mon Jan 20 14:40:01 2025
    On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 13:01:35 +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Please see the attached illustrating that, no destructive steps taken yet.

    On 20/01/2025 12:55, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Gparted seems to recognise the fact that 53% of space has data written
    to it. It also knows about the extfat system.
    This morning, when I viewed the drive through gparted on a new machine
    for the first time, it specifically complained about exfatprogs missing
    and told me to install it.

    I'm also wondering why a lack of partition wasn't reported in earlier stages and I managed to mount /dev/sdb instead of /dev/sdb1 and write to it?

    (The image shows a partial screen shot of a GUI program with
    "/dev/sdb - GParted" in the title bar, and showing /dev/sdb having an
    exfat file system with size 3.64 TiB.)

    If your disk has both an msdos partition table (with no partitions)
    *and* an exfat file system written to the raw device, then you're
    going to have to consult experts greater than me to unravel this.
    Both the partition table and the exfat file system will assume that
    the first part of the disk belongs to them. Most likely, whichever
    one of them made the *last* write to the beginning of the disk is
    the winner, and has corrupted/destroyed the other.

    This is yet another reason I do not advise writing file system to raw
    disk devices without partitions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to Hans on Mon Jan 20 14:40:01 2025
    I don't think it's fake but it's the lack of partition being the main issue.

    I've just reconnected it to the previous system and found this in history:

    sudo mkfs.exfat /dev/nvme0n1
    sudo mkdir /mnt/nvme0n1
    sudo mount /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1

    I think the fact that it reported as nvme0n1 cofused me and made me
    think it was a partition.

    All of the above worked and I was using the drive for days.
    I ran: rsync, ls, df, cd, rm, rmdir and other commands.
    Everything felt perfectly normal.

    Now I'm unable to remount it the same way:

    sudo mount /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on
    /dev/nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    I think it's time to give up on the data and move on...


    On 20/01/2025 13:20, Hans wrote:
    There are fake 4TB drives in the market. Maybe you got one? There are some tools available for checking this (I believe, in Debian there is a tool called
    "f3" or similar.

    If there are no important data on the drive, you might reformat the drive to ext2/3/4 and then use "resize2fs" to corect the settings of your drive. In the
    past I used to grow a partition with gparted, and gparted showed correctly, but df showed still the old size.

    Resize2fs then did the trick and I got the correct size.

    If you have Windows on an other computer, there are so,e windows based tools, which are made for testing the real capacity of your drive.

    Additionally I got such a fake 4TB drive. Although the tools al showed "fake",
    I could fill it with almost 4TB. Inside was of the case was an USB-stick and I
    think, the capacity is made by software (shrinking files, double space whatver). However, this stick is (USB-3!) raaaaaaather slow!

    Just some thoughts, maybe it helps.

    Best

    Hans



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 20 14:30:02 2025
    There are fake 4TB drives in the market. Maybe you got one? There are some tools available for checking this (I believe, in Debian there is a tool called "f3" or similar.

    If there are no important data on the drive, you might reformat the drive to ext2/3/4 and then use "resize2fs" to corect the settings of your drive. In the past I used to grow a partition with gparted, and gparted showed correctly,
    but df showed still the old size.

    Resize2fs then did the trick and I got the correct size.

    If you have Windows on an other computer, there are so,e windows based tools, which are made for testing the real capacity of your drive.

    Additionally I got such a fake 4TB drive. Although the tools al showed "fake", I could fill it with almost 4TB. Inside was of the case was an USB-stick and I think, the capacity is made by software (shrinking files, double space whatver). However, this stick is (USB-3!) raaaaaaather slow!

    Just some thoughts, maybe it helps.

    Best

    Hans

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to Max Nikulin on Mon Jan 20 17:10:01 2025
    Yes, /dev/nvme0n1 comes from the onboard M2 socket (where the drive was populated with data) and /dev/sdb comes from USB adaptor used to connect
    the same drive to a different Ubuntu desktop.

    Output from the first (/dev/nvme0n1 on board) loadout.

    $ sudo lsblk --fs -o +SIZE
    NAME FSTYPE FSVER LABEL UUID
    FSAVAIL FSUSE% MOUNTPOINTS SIZE
    loop0 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/core20/2379 64M
    loop1 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/bare/5 4K
    loop2 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/core20/2434 63.7M
    loop3 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/core22/1663 73.9M
    loop4 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/core22/1722 73.9M
    loop5 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/gnome-3-38-2004/119 346.3M
    loop6 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/gnome-3-38-2004/143 349.7M
    loop7 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/gnome-42-2204/176 505.1M
    loop8 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/gtk-common-themes/1535 91.7M
    loop9 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/snap-store/1113 12.9M
    loop10 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/snap-store/1216 12.2M
    loop11 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/snapd/23258 44.3M
    loop12 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/snapd/23545 44.4M
    loop13 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/snapd-desktop-integration/247 564K
    loop14 squashfs 4.0
    0 100% /snap/snapd-desktop-integration/253 568K
    sda
    953.9G
    ├─sda1 vfat FAT32 D7C9-A88E
    487.3M 5% /boot/efi 512M
    └─sda2 ext4 1.0 7258149c-b137-4855-b4d8-44dfb426e1f9
    208G 73% / 953.4G
    sdb
    7.3T
    └─sdb1 ext4 1.0 ARCHIVE-1 8186b203-86ce-439c-a2e7-988e121ea53b
    7.3T
    nvme0n1 exfat 1.0 6786-F242
    3.6T

    There are other disks on board: 1TB sda (SSD) and 8TB sdb (HDD).

    On the same system I get:

    $ sudo file -s /dev/nvme0n1
    /dev/nvme0n1: DOS/MBR boot sector

    ...and I'm pretty sure I initialised the drive with GPT partition table.

    It would be enough to somehow mount it in the current loadout and copy
    the data to another spare 2 TB SSD. That would save me 3 days spent
    waiting for the data to be processed.

    The drive was mounted there and everything worked up until a reboot.
    So maybe there is a way to remount it?




    On 20/01/2025 15:44, Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 20/01/2025 20:37, Adam Weremczuk wrote:

    sudo mount /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on
    /dev/ nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    Is it for the drive plugged directly into a M.2 slot or through a USB adapter? In the latter case you should mount something like /dev/sdb.
    Notice that Dan suggested to explicitly specify filesystem type to mount
    (-t exfat). Review drives you have connected

          lsblk --fs -o +SIZE

    I have tried a USB pendrive with exfat partition

        file -s /dev/sdb1
        /dev/sdb1: DOS/MBR boot sector

    Perhaps it is due to "AA55h" signature in 510 and 511 bytes just like in
    MBR partition table <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/win32/fileio/exfat-specification#3120-bootsignature-field>
    So tools unaware of filesystem name in 3-10 bytes may be confused. Maybe
    they do not expect a "superfloppy" and take MBR with no partitions
    hypothesis first.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Mon Jan 20 17:20:01 2025
    Also:

    sudo mount -t exfat /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on
    /dev/nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    makes no difference.


    On 20/01/2025 16:04, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Yes, /dev/nvme0n1 comes from the onboard M2 socket (where the drive was populated with data) and /dev/sdb comes from USB adaptor used to connect
    the same drive to a different Ubuntu desktop.

    Output from the first (/dev/nvme0n1 on board) loadout.

    $ sudo lsblk --fs -o +SIZE
    NAME    FSTYPE   FSVER LABEL     UUID FSAVAIL FSUSE% MOUNTPOINTS                           SIZE loop0   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/core20/2379                      64M
    loop1   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/bare/5                            4K
    loop2   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/core20/2434                    63.7M
    loop3   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/core22/1663                    73.9M
    loop4   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/core22/1722                    73.9M
    loop5   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/gnome-3-38-2004/119           346.3M
    loop6   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/gnome-3-38-2004/143           349.7M
    loop7   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/gnome-42-2204/176             505.1M
    loop8   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/gtk-common-themes/1535         91.7M
    loop9   squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/snap-store/1113                12.9M
    loop10  squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/snap-store/1216                12.2M
    loop11  squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/snapd/23258                    44.3M
    loop12  squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/snapd/23545                    44.4M
    loop13  squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/snapd-desktop-integration/247   564K
    loop14  squashfs 4.0    0   100% /snap/snapd-desktop-integration/253   568K
    sda                                                 953.9G
    ├─sda1  vfat     FAT32           D7C9-A88E 487.3M     5%
    /boot/efi                             512M └─sda2  ext4     1.0             7258149c-b137-4855-b4d8-44dfb426e1f9
    208G    73% /                                   953.4G
    sdb                                                   7.3T
    └─sdb1  ext4     1.0   ARCHIVE-1 8186b203-86ce-439c-a2e7-988e121ea53b
                                                      7.3T
    nvme0n1 exfat    1.0             6786-F242
                                                      3.6T

    There are other disks on board: 1TB sda (SSD) and 8TB sdb (HDD).

    On the same system I get:

    $ sudo file -s /dev/nvme0n1
    /dev/nvme0n1: DOS/MBR boot sector

    ...and I'm pretty sure I initialised the drive with GPT partition table.

    It would be enough to somehow mount it in the current loadout and copy
    the data to another spare 2 TB SSD. That would save me 3 days spent
    waiting for the data to be processed.

    The drive was mounted there and everything worked up until a reboot.
    So maybe there is a way to remount it?




    On 20/01/2025 15:44, Max Nikulin wrote:
    On 20/01/2025 20:37, Adam Weremczuk wrote:

    sudo mount /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on
    /dev/ nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    Is it for the drive plugged directly into a M.2 slot or through a USB
    adapter? In the latter case you should mount something like /dev/sdb.
    Notice that Dan suggested to explicitly specify filesystem type to
    mount (-t exfat). Review drives you have connected

           lsblk --fs -o +SIZE

    I have tried a USB pendrive with exfat partition

         file -s /dev/sdb1
         /dev/sdb1: DOS/MBR boot sector

    Perhaps it is due to "AA55h" signature in 510 and 511 bytes just like
    in MBR partition table
    <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/win32/fileio/exfat-specification#3120-bootsignature-field>
    So tools unaware of filesystem name in 3-10 bytes may be confused.
    Maybe they do not expect a "superfloppy" and take MBR with no
    partitions hypothesis first.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 20 17:30:02 2025
    Am Montag, 20. Januar 2025, 17:15:40 CET schrieb Adam Weremczuk:
    Try "chkdsk /F /R C:" in windows, this should help.

    If you do not own a windows computer, then you can use any windows-live-cd for that, like Falcon4, HirensBootCD or UBCD4Win.

    Hans

    Also:

    sudo mount -t exfat /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    makes no difference.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Mon Jan 20 17:40:01 2025
    On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 16:15:40 +0000, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Also:

    sudo mount -t exfat /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    makes no difference.

    I still suspect something wrote an msdos partition table onto this
    disk, which corrupted the exfat file system. My first guess would
    be one of the partition editing programs (fdisk, parted, gparted, ...)
    saw the disk with no partition table and decided "Hey, let's fix
    that." Either with or without prompting you for permission.

    It *might* be possible to fix the exfat file system somehow (some
    equivalent of fsck, perhaps), but this is outside of my knowledge.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to Hans on Mon Jan 20 17:40:01 2025
    I'm unable to mount the disk in Windows without formatting to assigne a
    letter, so can't do "chkdsk ... C:"
    Windows just reports something that looks like two blank partitions,
    both with 2TB of unallocated space.
    Please see a screenshot attached to my message from about 4.5 hrs ago
    showing that.

    The system/loadout I'm using is not "live" but installed on sda (local
    1TB SSD).
    I've tried mounting the troublesome 4TB NVMe on 3 different systems already.
    I think it has more to do with a specific sequence of commands or a tool allowing me to access that (apparently) inaccessible data.

    Any ideas, even risky ones, are welcome.
    I have little to lose at this point.


    On 20/01/2025 16:29, Hans wrote:
    Am Montag, 20. Januar 2025, 17:15:40 CET schrieb Adam Weremczuk:
    Try "chkdsk /F /R C:" in windows, this should help.

    If you do not own a windows computer, then you can use any windows-live-cd for
    that, like Falcon4, HirensBootCD or UBCD4Win.

    Hans

    Also:

    sudo mount -t exfat /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on
    /dev/nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    makes no difference.






    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hans@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 20 18:00:02 2025
    Am Montag, 20. Januar 2025, 17:39:19 CET schrieb Adam Weremczuk:
    I'm unable to mount the disk in Windows without formatting to assigne a letter, so can't do "chkdsk ... C:"
    No, you do NOT have to mount the drive. Just boot windows into rescue mode and then got to the DOSshell and do chckdsk on the correct volume (C: , D: , F: whatever).

    Windows just reports something that looks like two blank partitions,
    both with 2TB of unallocated space.
    Please see a screenshot attached to my message from about 4.5 hrs ago
    showing that.


    The system/loadout I'm using is not "live" but installed on sda (local
    1TB SSD).
    I've tried mounting the troublesome 4TB NVMe on 3 different systems already. I think it has more to do with a specific sequence of commands or a tool allowing me to access that (apparently) inaccessible data.
    Just "mount /dev/nvme0n1p3 /my_mountpoint" should work.

    If it can not be mounted, then your filesystem is corrupt. Exfat is not well to fix with linux, you should do it in windows. I suggest, not to use an installed windows, as windows (boah, crap!) will automatically want to mount any newly seen partition, which is bad for fixing using chkdsk.

    So my suggestion, use a rescue-windows, must not be based on Win10, even an
    old WinXP lifefile will work for that.

    The other way is, to boot an installed windows into rescue-mode and then you can fix the drive with chkdsk, too.

    Hans



    Any ideas, even risky ones, are welcome.
    I have little to lose at this point.

    On 20/01/2025 16:29, Hans wrote:
    Am Montag, 20. Januar 2025, 17:15:40 CET schrieb Adam Weremczuk:
    Try "chkdsk /F /R C:" in windows, this should help.

    If you do not own a windows computer, then you can use any windows-live-cd for that, like Falcon4, HirensBootCD or UBCD4Win.

    Hans

    Also:

    sudo mount -t exfat /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on
    /dev/nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    makes no difference.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Christensen@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Mon Jan 20 18:40:01 2025
    On 1/20/25 05:37, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    I don't think it's fake but it's the lack of partition being the main
    issue.

    I've just reconnected it to the previous system and found this in history:

    sudo mkfs.exfat /dev/nvme0n1
    sudo mkdir /mnt/nvme0n1
    sudo mount /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1

    I think the fact that it reported as nvme0n1 cofused me and made me
    think it was a partition.

    All of the above worked and I was using the drive for days.
    I ran: rsync, ls, df, cd, rm, rmdir and other commands.
    Everything felt perfectly normal.

    Now I'm unable to remount it the same way:

    sudo mount /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/ nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    I think it's time to give up on the data and move on...


    It would help if you clarified how you intend to use the SSD:

    1. What computer(s).

    2. What interface(s)?

    3. Will the SSD be bootable? If so, what OS(s)? If not, what OS(s)
    will the computer(s) have?

    4. How many partitions?

    5. What will each partition contain?


    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Adam Weremczuk on Mon Jan 20 19:10:01 2025
    On 1/20/25 11:15, Adam Weremczuk wrote:
    Also:

    sudo mount -t exfat /dev/nvme0n1 /mnt/nvme0n1
    mount: /mnt/nvme0n1: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/ nvme0n1, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.

    makes no difference.

    If it thinks exfat is the wrong type, try

    sudo sh -c "file - < /dev/nvme0n1"

    to find out what filesystem is actually there.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam Weremczuk@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 20 19:50:01 2025
    A big thank you to everybody for all the hints and support.

    Unfortunately I was pressured to wipe the drive and use elsewhere.

    Therefore I couldn't continue with any further experiments :-(

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stefan Monnier@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 3 21:30:01 2025
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No
    space left on device
    Hmm, MFT too small? A quick search showed me this (from a forum):

    AFAIK the MFT is implemented as a "normal" file; it can grow as needed
    like any other file.
    So, as long as there's room on the disk, it should not be "too small"
    (tho maybe ntfs-3g just fails to implement some growth options,
    e.g. maybe it only supports a contiguous MFT?).

    Note that Dell computers we received were all delivered with 50% MFT
    reserve. We use many large files and reducing the MFT reserve to
    12.5% saved these machines from being dog slow when they ‘filled up’ quickly. How much MFT space is needed? *My rule of thumb for
    estimating is ‘number of files times 4k divided by total drive
    size’. The result is the percent of drive space needed for MFT. *As
    you note, the actual requirement will vary… but you have to start
    some place!

    Note that this "reserve" is only a strategy to reduce the risk of
    needing to use a fragmented MFT (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/backup-and-storage/ntfs-reserves-space-for-mft):

    Because of the importance of the MFT to NTFS and the possible impact
    on performance if this file becomes highly fragmented, NTFS makes
    a special effort to keep this file contiguous. NTFS reserves 12.5
    percent of the volume for exclusive use of the MFT until and unless
    the remainder of the volume is used up. Thus, space for files and
    directories is not allocated from this MFT zone until all other
    space is allocated first.

    So the size of the "MFT reserve" can impact performance but should never
    cause a disk to appear full when it isn't.


    Stefan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From George at Clug@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 3 21:50:01 2025
    I love three letter acronyms ! So meaningful (of course, context helps)

    I am going to guess with large capacity drives, and large SAN environments, Master File Table (MFT) management and scalability is critical ?

    I am curious: Are you storing many small files? What is the size of the NTFS partition? What happens if the NTFS partition is resized to be much larger?

    https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/managed-file-transfer

    What is managed file transfer (MFT)?

    Managed file transfer (MFT) is a technology platform that allows organizations to reliably exchange electronic data between systems and people, within and outside the enterprise, securely and in compliance with applicable regulations.

    MFT is a more reliable and efficient means for secure data and file transfer, outpacing and outperforming applications such as file transfer protocol (FTP), hypertext transfer protocol (HTTP), secure file transfer protocol (SFTP) and other methods.


    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/computer-science/master-file-table
    Master File Table

    In subject area: Computer Science

    Master File Table (MFT) is a crucial file in the NTFS file system that maintains records of all files in a volume, including their directory location, physical storage location, and metadata such as creation dates, access dates, and file size. It is
    especially valuable in forensic investigations as it allows investigators to retrieve information about deleted files, even though the file names may not always be preserved.

    AI generated definition based on: Managing Information Security (Second Edition), 2014

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/master-file-table
    The NTFS file system contains a file called the master file table, or MFT. There is at least one entry in the MFT for every file on an NTFS file system volume, including the MFT itself. All information about a file, including its size, time and date
    stamps, permissions, and data content, is stored either in MFT entries, or in space outside the MFT that is described by MFT entries.

    On Tuesday, 04-02-2025 at 07:22 Stefan Monnier wrote:
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No
    space left on device
    Hmm, MFT too small? A quick search showed me this (from a forum):

    AFAIK the MFT is implemented as a "normal" file; it can grow as needed
    like any other file.
    So, as long as there's room on the disk, it should not be "too small"
    (tho maybe ntfs-3g just fails to implement some growth options,
    e.g. maybe it only supports a contiguous MFT?).

    Note that Dell computers we received were all delivered with 50% MFT reserve. We use many large files and reducing the MFT reserve to
    12.5% saved these machines from being dog slow when they ‘filled up’ quickly. How much MFT space is needed? *My rule of thumb for
    estimating is ‘number of files times 4k divided by total drive
    size’. The result is the percent of drive space needed for MFT. *As
    you note, the actual requirement will vary… but you have to start
    some place!

    Note that this "reserve" is only a strategy to reduce the risk of
    needing to use a fragmented MFT (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/backup-and-storage/ntfs-reserves-space-for-mft):

    Because of the importance of the MFT to NTFS and the possible impact
    on performance if this file becomes highly fragmented, NTFS makes
    a special effort to keep this file contiguous. NTFS reserves 12.5
    percent of the volume for exclusive use of the MFT until and unless
    the remainder of the volume is used up. Thus, space for files and
    directories is not allocated from this MFT zone until all other
    space is allocated first.

    So the size of the "MFT reserve" can impact performance but should never cause a disk to appear full when it isn't.


    Stefan



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From George at Clug@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 3 22:10:01 2025
    I found the below info on MFT but did not find anything about how the MFT Zone automatically allocating more space to the MFT when the current MFT Zone is consumed.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/backup-and-storage/ntfs-reserves-space-for-mft

    As files are added to an NTFS volume, more entries are added to the MFT and so the MFT increases in size. When files are deleted from an NTFS volume, their MFT entries are marked as free and may be reused, but the MFT does not shrink. Thus, space used by
    these entries is not reclaimed from the disk

    Depending on the average file size and other variables, either the reserved MFT zone or the unreserved space on the disk may be used up before the other as the disk fills to capacity.

    Volumes with a small number of relatively large files exhaust the unreserved space first, while volumes with a large number of relatively small files exhaust the MFT zone space first.

    When the MFT needs to increase in size, for example, you created new files and directories, it is taken from the MFT Zone first, thus decreasing MFT fragmentation and optimizing MFT performance.

    The default MFT Zone is calculated and reserved by Ntfs.sys when it mounts the volume, and is based on volume size. You can increase the MFT Zone by means of the registry entry documented below, but you cannot make the default MFT Zone smaller than what
    is calculated by Ntfs.sys. Increasing the MFT Zone does not decrease in any way disk space that can be used by users for data files.

    George.



    On Tuesday, 04-02-2025 at 07:45 George at Clug wrote:
    I love three letter acronyms ! So meaningful (of course, context helps)

    I am going to guess with large capacity drives, and large SAN environments, Master File Table (MFT) management and scalability is critical ?

    I am curious: Are you storing many small files? What is the size of the NTFS partition? What happens if the NTFS partition is resized to be much larger?

    https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/managed-file-transfer

    What is managed file transfer (MFT)?

    Managed file transfer (MFT) is a technology platform that allows organizations to reliably exchange electronic data between systems and people, within and outside the enterprise, securely and in compliance with applicable regulations.

    MFT is a more reliable and efficient means for secure data and file transfer, outpacing and outperforming applications such as file transfer protocol (FTP), hypertext transfer protocol (HTTP), secure file transfer protocol (SFTP) and other methods.


    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/computer-science/master-file-table Master File Table

    In subject area: Computer Science

    Master File Table (MFT) is a crucial file in the NTFS file system that maintains records of all files in a volume, including their directory location, physical storage location, and metadata such as creation dates, access dates, and file size. It is
    especially valuable in forensic investigations as it allows investigators to retrieve information about deleted files, even though the file names may not always be preserved.

    AI generated definition based on: Managing Information Security (Second Edition), 2014

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/master-file-table
    The NTFS file system contains a file called the master file table, or MFT. There is at least one entry in the MFT for every file on an NTFS file system volume, including the MFT itself. All information about a file, including its size, time and date
    stamps, permissions, and data content, is stored either in MFT entries, or in space outside the MFT that is described by MFT entries.

    On Tuesday, 04-02-2025 at 07:22 Stefan Monnier wrote:
    Jan 13 19:46:06 eagle ntfs-3g[4262]: No free mft record for $MFT: No
    space left on device
    Hmm, MFT too small? A quick search showed me this (from a forum):

    AFAIK the MFT is implemented as a "normal" file; it can grow as needed
    like any other file.
    So, as long as there's room on the disk, it should not be "too small"
    (tho maybe ntfs-3g just fails to implement some growth options,
    e.g. maybe it only supports a contiguous MFT?).

    Note that Dell computers we received were all delivered with 50% MFT reserve. We use many large files and reducing the MFT reserve to
    12.5% saved these machines from being dog slow when they ‘filled up’ quickly. How much MFT space is needed? *My rule of thumb for
    estimating is ‘number of files times 4k divided by total drive size’. The result is the percent of drive space needed for MFT. *As
    you note, the actual requirement will vary… but you have to start
    some place!

    Note that this "reserve" is only a strategy to reduce the risk of
    needing to use a fragmented MFT (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/backup-and-storage/ntfs-reserves-space-for-mft):

    Because of the importance of the MFT to NTFS and the possible impact
    on performance if this file becomes highly fragmented, NTFS makes
    a special effort to keep this file contiguous. NTFS reserves 12.5
    percent of the volume for exclusive use of the MFT until and unless
    the remainder of the volume is used up. Thus, space for files and
    directories is not allocated from this MFT zone until all other
    space is allocated first.

    So the size of the "MFT reserve" can impact performance but should never cause a disk to appear full when it isn't.


    Stefan





    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)