• Request to use DFSG as a model document

    From Marcia Wilbur@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 23 09:40:01 2025
    Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur. I have a few projects I contribute to,
    Including a remaster tool, Technical writing tools, and a few fun things
    having to do with open computer vision.

    Bruce Perens in the Debian Free Software Guidelines announce states:

    We hope that other software projects,

    including other Linux distributions, will use this document as a model.

    We will gladly grant permission for any such use.

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/1997/msg00017.html

    I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a model
    for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for
    other projects.

    At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is the name.

    Thank you,

    Marcia Wilbur

    Linux respin

    <div>
    <div dir="auto">
    <p dir="auto">Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur. I have a few projects I contribute to, Including a remaster tool, Technical writing tools, and a few fun things having to do with open computer vision.</p><p>Bruce Perens in the Debian Free Software Guidelines
    announce states: </p>
    <p>We hope that other software projects,</p>
    <p>including other Linux distributions, will use this document as a model.</p> <p>We will gladly grant permission for any such use. </p>
    <p><div><a href="https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/1997/msg00017.html">https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/1997/msg00017.html</a></div><br></p>
    <p dir="auto">I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a model for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for other projects. </p><p dir="auto">At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is
    the name.</p>
    <p dir="auto">Thank you,</p><p dir="auto">Marcia Wilbur </p><p dir="auto">Linux respin</p>
    </div>
    </div>

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  • From Francesco Poli@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 23 19:40:01 2025
    On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:34:43 -0400 Marcia Wilbur wrote:

    Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur.

    Hello Marcia,

    [...]
    I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a model for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for
    other projects.

    At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is the name.

    Disclaimer: I cannot speak for the Debian Project, since I have not
    been delegated to do so; I am just a Debian contributor (a Debian
    Maintainer, to be precise) who has been a regular on the debian-legal
    mailing list for quite a long time.

    That said, my own personal opinion is that what you would like to do
    should not be a problem, from a conceptual standpoint.

    The only trouble I see is that the document that includes the Debian
    Social Contract and the Debian Free Software Guidelines still seems to
    be under the non-free OPL license, as there is no evidence that it has
    been re-licensed (yet)...
    Please take a look at bug [#614497] for more detailed information about
    this (long) story.

    [#614497]: <https://bugs.debian.org/614497>

    I admit that this looks like sad news, but... it is what it is... :-(

    --
    http://www.inventati.org/frx/
    There's not a second to spare! To the laboratory! ..................................................... Francesco Poli .
    GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE

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  • From Michael Stehmann@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 24 21:00:01 2025
    Hello,

    IMO there is a derived work of the DFSG:

    https://opensource.org/osd

    See:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative#History

    Disclaimer: I am not a member of the Debian Project but interested in
    Free Software Licences.

    Kind regards
    Michael

    Am 23.03.25 um 19:31 schrieb Francesco Poli:
    On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:34:43 -0400 Marcia Wilbur wrote:

    Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur.

    Hello Marcia,

    [...]
    I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a model >> for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for
    other projects.

    At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is the name.

    Disclaimer: I cannot speak for the Debian Project, since I have not
    been delegated to do so; I am just a Debian contributor (a Debian
    Maintainer, to be precise) who has been a regular on the debian-legal
    mailing list for quite a long time.

    That said, my own personal opinion is that what you would like to do
    should not be a problem, from a conceptual standpoint.

    The only trouble I see is that the document that includes the Debian
    Social Contract and the Debian Free Software Guidelines still seems to
    be under the non-free OPL license, as there is no evidence that it has
    been re-licensed (yet)...
    Please take a look at bug [#614497] for more detailed information about
    this (long) story.

    [#614497]: <https://bugs.debian.org/614497>

    I admit that this looks like sad news, but... it is what it is... :-(


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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marcia Wilbur@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 24 21:10:02 2025
    Hi. So I had Contacted Bruce Perens because he was the original author of
    both of those and as per his guidance, he said, as long as I’m just using
    the original, I should cite it, which that’s fine.

    But if I wanted to modify it as a formality, I should contact the Debian
    folks.

    The original document (Dfsg) announce states that it can be used as a model
    for other distros and projects, and that “We will gladly grant permission
    for any such us” Let me get you the full text Of that, announce below.

    *We hope that other software projects,
    including other Linux distributions, will use this document as a model.
    We will gladly grant permission for any such use.*

    So I asked Bruce…
    Does this statement mean we can simply use the document as a model with no further due diligence or explicit permissions?

    Since Bruce was the original Author, I reached out to him first, but he
    said he has been outside Debian project a while:

    Bruce Perens:
    If you're not going to modify it, I think you could just cite the document
    at its current location. If you are, just for formality sake you should ask
    the Debian folks. I've not been on that project for some years - just too
    many things to do.

    Considering the text in the announcement, it seems that the original
    document is an open one, but as a formality, I am letting you know I want
    to modify just the name and waiting for that gladly granting of permissions
    as per the original intent!

    :)



    On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 3:52 PM Michael Stehmann <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Hello,

    IMO there is a derived work of the DFSG:


    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://opensource.org/osd__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vx7FX_qQ$

    See:

    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative*History__;Iw!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6v0Ddq6cQ$

    Disclaimer: I am not a member of the Debian Project but interested in
    Free Software Licences.

    Kind regards
    Michael

    Am 23.03.25 um 19:31 schrieb Francesco Poli:
    On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:34:43 -0400 Marcia Wilbur wrote:

    Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur.

    Hello Marcia,

    [...]
    I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a model
    for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for
    other projects.

    At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is the name.

    Disclaimer: I cannot speak for the Debian Project, since I have not
    been delegated to do so; I am just a Debian contributor (a Debian Maintainer, to be precise) who has been a regular on the debian-legal mailing list for quite a long time.

    That said, my own personal opinion is that what you would like to do
    should not be a problem, from a conceptual standpoint.

    The only trouble I see is that the document that includes the Debian
    Social Contract and the Debian Free Software Guidelines still seems to
    be under the non-free OPL license, as there is no evidence that it has
    been re-licensed (yet)...
    Please take a look at bug [#614497] for more detailed information about this (long) story.

    [#614497]: <
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bugs.debian.org/614497__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vqCWeDEw$


    I admit that this looks like sad news, but... it is what it is... :-(




    <div><div><div dir="auto">Hi. So I had Contacted Bruce Perens because he was the original author of both of those and as per his guidance, he said, as long as I’m just using the original, I should cite it, which that’s fine.</div><div dir="auto"><br><
    /div><div dir="auto">But if I wanted to modify it as a formality, I should contact the Debian folks.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The original document (Dfsg) announce states that it can be used as a model for other distros and projects,
    and that “We will gladly grant permission for any such us” Let me get you the full text Of that, announce below.</div></div><div><div dir="auto"><div></div></div></div></div><div><div style="color:rgb(49,49,49);font-family:&#39;-apple-system&#39;,&#
    39;helvetica neue&#39;;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:1px;text-decoration:none"><div><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style="
    font-size:1rem">We hope that other software projects,
    including other Linux distributions, will use this document as a model.
    We will gladly grant permission for any such use.</b></pre></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div style="color:rgb(49,49,49);font-family:&#39;-apple-system&#39;,&#39;helvetica neue&#39;;font-size:1rem;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:
    normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:1px;text-decoration:none" dir="auto">So I asked Bruce… </div><div style="color:rgb(49,49,49);font-family:&#39;-apple-system&#39;,&#39;helvetica neue&#39;;font-size:1rem;font-
    style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:1px;text-decoration:none" dir="auto">Does this statement mean we can simply use the document as a model with no further due diligence
    or explicit permissions? </div><div style="color:rgb(49,49,49);font-family:&#39;-apple-system&#39;,&#39;helvetica neue&#39;;font-size:1rem;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;
    word-spacing:1px;text-decoration:none" dir="auto"><br></div>Since Bruce was the original Author, I reached out to him first, but he said he has been outside Debian project a while:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div><div dir="auto" style=
    "color:rgb(49,49,49);font-family:&#39;-apple-system&#39;,&#39;helvetica neue&#39;;font-size:1rem;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:1px;text-decoration:none">Bruce
    Perens: </div><div dir="auto" style="color:rgb(49,49,49);font-family:&#39;-apple-system&#39;,&#39;helvetica neue&#39;;font-size:1rem;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-
    spacing:1px;text-decoration:none">If you&#39;re not going to modify it, I think you could just cite the document at its current location. If you are, just for formality sake you should ask the Debian folks. I&#39;ve not been on that project for some
    years - just too many things to do. </div></div></div><div><div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Considering the text in the announcement, it seems that the original document is an open one, but as a formality, I am letting you know I want to
    modify just the name and waiting for that gladly granting of permissions as per the original intent!</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">:)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="
    ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 3:52 PM Michael Stehmann &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-
    width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">Hello,<br>

    IMO there is a derived work of the DFSG:<br>

    <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://opensource.org/osd__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vx7FX_qQ$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://opensource.
    org/osd__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vx7FX_qQ$</a> <br>

    See:<br>
    <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative*History__;Iw!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6v0Ddq6cQ$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://
    urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative*History__;Iw!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6v0Ddq6cQ$</a> <br>

    Disclaimer: I am not a member of the Debian Project but interested in <br>
    Free Software Licences.<br>

    Kind regards<br>
    Michael<br>

    Am 23.03.25 um 19:31 schrieb Francesco Poli:<br>
    &gt; On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:34:43 -0400 Marcia Wilbur wrote:<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt;&gt; Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; Hello Marcia,<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; [...]<br>
    &gt;&gt; I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a model<br>
    &gt;&gt; for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for<br>
    &gt;&gt; other projects.<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is the name.<br> &gt; <br>
    &gt; Disclaimer: I cannot speak for the Debian Project, since I have not<br> &gt; been delegated to do so; I am just a Debian contributor (a Debian<br>
    &gt; Maintainer, to be precise) who has been a regular on the debian-legal<br> &gt; mailing list for quite a long time.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; That said, my own personal opinion is that what you would like to do<br> &gt; should not be a problem, from a conceptual standpoint.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; The only trouble I see is that the document that includes the Debian<br> &gt; Social Contract and the Debian Free Software Guidelines still seems to<br> &gt; be under the non-free OPL license, as there is no evidence that it has<br> &gt; been re-licensed (yet)...<br>
    &gt; Please take a look at bug [#614497] for more detailed information about<br>
    &gt; this (long) story.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; [#614497]: &lt;<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bugs.debian.org/614497__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vqCWeDEw$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/
    v3/__https://bugs.debian.org/614497__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vqCWeDEw$</a> &gt;<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; I admit that this looks like sad news, but... it is what it is...  :-(<br>
    &gt; <br>

    </blockquote></div></div>
    </div>
    </div>

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  • From Michael Stehmann@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 25 10:00:01 2025
    Hi,

    IMO the person you have to ask is the Debian Project Lead.

    THe recent is:

    Andreas Tille <[email protected]>

    Hope I could help you.

    Kind regards
    Michael


    Am 24.03.25 um 21:04 schrieb Marcia Wilbur:
    Hi. So I had Contacted Bruce Perens because he was the original author of both of those and as per his guidance, he said, as long as I’m just using the original, I should cite it, which that’s fine.

    But if I wanted to modify it as a formality, I should contact the Debian folks.

    The original document (Dfsg) announce states that it can be used as a model for other distros and projects, and that “We will gladly grant permission for any such us” Let me get you the full text Of that, announce below.

    *We hope that other software projects,
    including other Linux distributions, will use this document as a model.
    We will gladly grant permission for any such use.*

    So I asked Bruce…
    Does this statement mean we can simply use the document as a model with no further due diligence or explicit permissions?

    Since Bruce was the original Author, I reached out to him first, but he
    said he has been outside Debian project a while:

    Bruce Perens:
    If you're not going to modify it, I think you could just cite the document
    at its current location. If you are, just for formality sake you should ask the Debian folks. I've not been on that project for some years - just too many things to do.

    Considering the text in the announcement, it seems that the original
    document is an open one, but as a formality, I am letting you know I want
    to modify just the name and waiting for that gladly granting of permissions as per the original intent!

    :)



    On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 3:52 PM Michael Stehmann <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hello,

    IMO there is a derived work of the DFSG:


    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://opensource.org/osd__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vx7FX_qQ$

    See:

    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative*History__;Iw!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6v0Ddq6cQ$

    Disclaimer: I am not a member of the Debian Project but interested in
    Free Software Licences.

    Kind regards
    Michael

    Am 23.03.25 um 19:31 schrieb Francesco Poli:
    On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:34:43 -0400 Marcia Wilbur wrote:

    Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur.

    Hello Marcia,

    [...]
    I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a
    model
    for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for >>>> other projects.

    At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is the name.

    Disclaimer: I cannot speak for the Debian Project, since I have not
    been delegated to do so; I am just a Debian contributor (a Debian
    Maintainer, to be precise) who has been a regular on the debian-legal
    mailing list for quite a long time.

    That said, my own personal opinion is that what you would like to do
    should not be a problem, from a conceptual standpoint.

    The only trouble I see is that the document that includes the Debian
    Social Contract and the Debian Free Software Guidelines still seems to
    be under the non-free OPL license, as there is no evidence that it has
    been re-licensed (yet)...
    Please take a look at bug [#614497] for more detailed information about
    this (long) story.

    [#614497]: <
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bugs.debian.org/614497__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vqCWeDEw$


    I admit that this looks like sad news, but... it is what it is... :-(





    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Francesco Poli@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 25 12:20:02 2025
    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 09:57:05 +0100 Michael Stehmann wrote:

    Hi,

    IMO the person you have to ask is the Debian Project Lead.
    [...]

    I am not too convinced that the Debian Project Leader can grant or
    refuse any special permission to make a derivative work of the document describing the DFSG.

    The current (well, not really current... last known update on 2015...)
    [status] of the Debian web site relicensing seems to be that many
    contributors have agreed to relicense their own contributions under Expat/GPLv2+ dual terms.
    However, I do not know whether the copyright holders of the Debian [SC]
    and DFSG have replied and agreed to the relicensing.

    I have recently [asked] for a status update, but no replies yet.

    Hence, I would say that the persons to be asked are the copyright
    holders for the [SC] document.
    Both version 1.0 ratified on July 5, 1997 and version 1.1 ratified on
    April 26th, 2004 (since the current version has been ratified on
    October 1st, 2022, which is after 2012, when it was [clarified] that all
    new contributions to the Debian web site would be considered available
    under Expat/GPLv2+ dual terms).

    So the first step, in my humble opinion, would be to identify all the
    copyright owners for the [SC] document versions 1.0 and 1.1 ...

    [status]: <https://bugs.debian.org/388141#378>
    [SC]: <https://www.debian.org/social_contract>
    [asked]: <https://bugs.debian.org/614497#63>
    [clarified]: <https://www.debian.org/license>


    --
    http://www.inventati.org/frx/
    There's not a second to spare! To the laboratory! ..................................................... Francesco Poli .
    GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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  • From Marcia Wilbur@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 15 11:10:01 2025
    Hi. Thank you for that information.

    Andreas,

    I want to use The DSFG as a model for other distros and software.

    That being said, I am all about the freedom side so, if the packages in
    stable Are all free anyways, it kind of makes it a moot point for me
    because I will just use the Debian free software guidelines and Debian
    stable myself, personally.

    That being said, since my software generates ISO’s and customizes distros, (Many have been released into the wild 😜) there Is a need for me to offer guidance and a model to those users creating and maintaining Debian based distros.

    Of course, I went to Bruce first, see thread below. He recommended if there were any modifications to dfsg, as a formality, to contact the Debian
    project.

    I was forwarded your name as the person who may be able to Grant
    permission as per the original release terms of the DFSG: To be used as a
    model for other projects and distros where permission will be gladly
    granted For such use.

    Are you the correct point person or point of contact with the ability to
    grant permission to use DFSG As a model, as was the original intent of the document?

    If you are, then I would like to request permission as per the original
    release of the document, and I did my due diligence in contacting Bruce
    first who said to contact you just as a formality.

    Else if you are not, and you know who that person or a point of contact is Please let me know, and put me in the right direction.

    Thanks

    Marcia



    On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 4:57 AM Michael Stehmann <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Hi,

    IMO the person you have to ask is the Debian Project Lead.

    THe recent is:

    Andreas Tille <[email protected]>

    Hope I could help you.

    Kind regards
    Michael


    Am 24.03.25 um 21:04 schrieb Marcia Wilbur:
    Hi. So I had Contacted Bruce Perens because he was the original author of both of those and as per his guidance, he said, as long as I’m just using the original, I should cite it, which that’s fine.

    But if I wanted to modify it as a formality, I should contact the Debian folks.

    The original document (Dfsg) announce states that it can be used as a
    model
    for other distros and projects, and that “We will gladly grant permission for any such us” Let me get you the full text Of that, announce below.

    *We hope that other software projects,
    including other Linux distributions, will use this document as a model.
    We will gladly grant permission for any such use.*

    So I asked Bruce…
    Does this statement mean we can simply use the document as a model with
    no
    further due diligence or explicit permissions?

    Since Bruce was the original Author, I reached out to him first, but he said he has been outside Debian project a while:

    Bruce Perens:
    If you're not going to modify it, I think you could just cite the
    document
    at its current location. If you are, just for formality sake you should
    ask
    the Debian folks. I've not been on that project for some years - just too many things to do.

    Considering the text in the announcement, it seems that the original document is an open one, but as a formality, I am letting you know I want to modify just the name and waiting for that gladly granting of
    permissions
    as per the original intent!

    :)



    On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 3:52 PM Michael Stehmann <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hello,

    IMO there is a derived work of the DFSG:


    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://opensource.org/osd__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vx7FX_qQ$

    See:

    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative*History__;Iw!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6v0Ddq6cQ$

    Disclaimer: I am not a member of the Debian Project but interested in
    Free Software Licences.

    Kind regards
    Michael

    Am 23.03.25 um 19:31 schrieb Francesco Poli:
    On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:34:43 -0400 Marcia Wilbur wrote:

    Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur.

    Hello Marcia,

    [...]
    I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a
    model
    for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for >>>> other projects.

    At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is the name.

    Disclaimer: I cannot speak for the Debian Project, since I have not
    been delegated to do so; I am just a Debian contributor (a Debian
    Maintainer, to be precise) who has been a regular on the debian-legal
    mailing list for quite a long time.

    That said, my own personal opinion is that what you would like to do
    should not be a problem, from a conceptual standpoint.

    The only trouble I see is that the document that includes the Debian
    Social Contract and the Debian Free Software Guidelines still seems to >>> be under the non-free OPL license, as there is no evidence that it has >>> been re-licensed (yet)...
    Please take a look at bug [#614497] for more detailed information about >>> this (long) story.

    [#614497]: <
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bugs.debian.org/614497__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vqCWeDEw$


    I admit that this looks like sad news, but... it is what it is... :-( >>>






    <div dir="auto">Hi. Thank you for that information.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Andreas, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I want to use The DSFG as a model for other distros and software. </div><div dir="auto"><br></
    <div dir="auto">That being said, I am all about the freedom side so, if the packages in stable Are all free anyways, it kind of makes it a moot point for me because I will just use the Debian free software guidelines and Debian stable myself,
    personally.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">That being said, since my software generates ISO’s and customizes distros, (Many have been released into the wild 😜) there Is a need for me to offer guidance and a model to those users
    creating and maintaining Debian based distros. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Of course, I went to Bruce first, see thread below. He recommended if there were any modifications to dfsg, as a formality, to contact the Debian project.</
    <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"> I was forwarded your name as the person who may be able to  Grant permission as per the original release terms of the DFSG: To be used as a model for other projects and distros where permission will be
    gladly granted For such use.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Are you the correct point person or point of contact with the ability to grant permission to use DFSG As a model, as was the original intent of the document?</div><div dir="auto">
    <br></div><div dir="auto">If you are, then I would like to request permission as per the original release of the document, and I did my due diligence in contacting Bruce first who said to contact you just as a formality.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><
    div dir="auto">Else if you are not, and you know who that person or a point of contact is Please let me know, and put me in the right direction.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thanks</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Marcia</
    <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 4:57 AM Michael Stehmann &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]">michael@canzeley.
    de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>

    IMO the person you have to ask is the Debian Project Lead.<br>

    THe recent is:<br>

    Andreas Tille &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>

    Hope I could help you.<br>

    Kind regards<br>
    Michael<br>


    Am 24.03.25 um 21:04 schrieb Marcia Wilbur:<br>
    &gt; Hi. So I had Contacted Bruce Perens because he was the original author of<br>
    &gt; both of those and as per his guidance, he said, as long as I’m just using<br>
    &gt; the original, I should cite it, which that’s fine.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; But if I wanted to modify it as a formality, I should contact the Debian<br>
    &gt; folks.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; The original document (Dfsg) announce states that it can be used as a model<br>
    &gt; for other distros and projects, and that “We will gladly grant permission<br>
    &gt; for any such us” Let me get you the full text Of that, announce below.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; *We hope that other software projects,<br>
    &gt; including other Linux distributions, will use this document as a model.<br>
    &gt; We will gladly grant permission for any such use.*<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; So I asked Bruce…<br>
    &gt; Does this statement mean we can simply use the document as a model with no<br>
    &gt; further due diligence or explicit permissions?<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; Since Bruce was the original Author, I reached out to him first, but he<br>
    &gt; said he has been outside Debian project a while:<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; Bruce Perens:<br>
    &gt; If you&#39;re not going to modify it, I think you could just cite the document<br>
    &gt; at its current location. If you are, just for formality sake you should ask<br>
    &gt; the Debian folks. I&#39;ve not been on that project for some years - just too<br>
    &gt; many things to do.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; Considering the text in the announcement, it seems that the original<br> &gt; document is an open one, but as a formality, I am letting you know I want<br>
    &gt; to modify just the name and waiting for that gladly granting of permissions<br>
    &gt; as per the original intent!<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; :)<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 3:52 PM Michael Stehmann &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
    &gt; wrote:<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt;&gt; Hello,<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; IMO there is a derived work of the DFSG:<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://opensource.org/osd__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vx7FX_qQ$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://
    opensource.org/osd__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vx7FX_qQ$</a><br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; See:<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative*History__;Iw!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6v0Ddq6cQ$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative*History__;Iw!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6v0Ddq6cQ$</a><br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; Disclaimer: I am not a member of the Debian Project but interested in<br>
    &gt;&gt; Free Software Licences.<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; Kind regards<br>
    &gt;&gt; Michael<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; Am 23.03.25 um 19:31 schrieb Francesco Poli:<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:34:43 -0400 Marcia Wilbur wrote:<br> &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur.<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; Hello Marcia,<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; [...]<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a<br>
    &gt;&gt; model<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; other projects.<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is the name.<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; Disclaimer: I cannot speak for the Debian Project, since I have not<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; been delegated to do so; I am just a Debian contributor (a Debian<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; Maintainer, to be precise) who has been a regular on the debian-legal<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; mailing list for quite a long time.<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; That said, my own personal opinion is that what you would like to do<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; should not be a problem, from a conceptual standpoint.<br> &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; The only trouble I see is that the document that includes the Debian<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; Social Contract and the Debian Free Software Guidelines still seems to<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; be under the non-free OPL license, as there is no evidence that it has<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; been re-licensed (yet)...<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; Please take a look at bug [#614497] for more detailed information about<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; this (long) story.<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; [#614497]: &lt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bugs.debian.org/614497__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vqCWeDEw$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://
    bugs.debian.org/614497__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vqCWeDEw$</a><br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; I admit that this looks like sad news, but... it is what it is...  :-(<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt; <br>

    </blockquote></div></div>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andreas Tille@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 16 06:30:01 2025
    Hi,

    Am Tue, Apr 15, 2025 at 05:00:32AM -0400 schrieb Marcia Wilbur:
    Hi. Thank you for that information.

    Andreas,

    The debian-Legal list (in CC as I am) is probably more competent as an individual as well as Michael who has a lawyer background.

    IMHO the DFSG is sufficiently clear. If you want to derive anything
    please give exact exammples what you want to do.

    Kind regards
    Andreas.

    I want to use The DSFG as a model for other distros and software.

    That being said, I am all about the freedom side so, if the packages in stable Are all free anyways, it kind of makes it a moot point for me
    because I will just use the Debian free software guidelines and Debian
    stable myself, personally.

    That being said, since my software generates ISO’s and customizes distros, (Many have been released into the wild 😜) there Is a need for me to offer guidance and a model to those users creating and maintaining Debian based distros.

    Of course, I went to Bruce first, see thread below. He recommended if there were any modifications to dfsg, as a formality, to contact the Debian project.

    I was forwarded your name as the person who may be able to Grant
    permission as per the original release terms of the DFSG: To be used as a model for other projects and distros where permission will be gladly
    granted For such use.

    Are you the correct point person or point of contact with the ability to grant permission to use DFSG As a model, as was the original intent of the document?

    If you are, then I would like to request permission as per the original release of the document, and I did my due diligence in contacting Bruce
    first who said to contact you just as a formality.

    Else if you are not, and you know who that person or a point of contact is Please let me know, and put me in the right direction.

    Thanks

    Marcia



    On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 4:57 AM Michael Stehmann <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hi,

    IMO the person you have to ask is the Debian Project Lead.

    THe recent is:

    Andreas Tille <[email protected]>

    Hope I could help you.

    Kind regards
    Michael


    Am 24.03.25 um 21:04 schrieb Marcia Wilbur:
    Hi. So I had Contacted Bruce Perens because he was the original author of both of those and as per his guidance, he said, as long as I’m just using
    the original, I should cite it, which that’s fine.

    But if I wanted to modify it as a formality, I should contact the Debian folks.

    The original document (Dfsg) announce states that it can be used as a
    model
    for other distros and projects, and that “We will gladly grant permission
    for any such us” Let me get you the full text Of that, announce below.

    *We hope that other software projects,
    including other Linux distributions, will use this document as a model. We will gladly grant permission for any such use.*

    So I asked Bruce…
    Does this statement mean we can simply use the document as a model with
    no
    further due diligence or explicit permissions?

    Since Bruce was the original Author, I reached out to him first, but he said he has been outside Debian project a while:

    Bruce Perens:
    If you're not going to modify it, I think you could just cite the
    document
    at its current location. If you are, just for formality sake you should
    ask
    the Debian folks. I've not been on that project for some years - just too many things to do.

    Considering the text in the announcement, it seems that the original document is an open one, but as a formality, I am letting you know I want to modify just the name and waiting for that gladly granting of
    permissions
    as per the original intent!

    :)



    On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 3:52 PM Michael Stehmann <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hello,

    IMO there is a derived work of the DFSG:


    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://opensource.org/osd__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vx7FX_qQ$

    See:

    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative*History__;Iw!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6v0Ddq6cQ$

    Disclaimer: I am not a member of the Debian Project but interested in
    Free Software Licences.

    Kind regards
    Michael

    Am 23.03.25 um 19:31 schrieb Francesco Poli:
    On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:34:43 -0400 Marcia Wilbur wrote:

    Hi. My name is Marcia Wilbur.

    Hello Marcia,

    [...]
    I would like to use the Debian Free Software Guidelines document as a >> model
    for my projects as well as promote DFSG or a derivative as a model for >>>> other projects.

    At this point in time, the only thing I would modify is the name.

    Disclaimer: I cannot speak for the Debian Project, since I have not
    been delegated to do so; I am just a Debian contributor (a Debian
    Maintainer, to be precise) who has been a regular on the debian-legal >>> mailing list for quite a long time.

    That said, my own personal opinion is that what you would like to do >>> should not be a problem, from a conceptual standpoint.

    The only trouble I see is that the document that includes the Debian >>> Social Contract and the Debian Free Software Guidelines still seems to >>> be under the non-free OPL license, as there is no evidence that it has >>> been re-licensed (yet)...
    Please take a look at bug [#614497] for more detailed information about >>> this (long) story.

    [#614497]: <
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bugs.debian.org/614497__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YBK4_x9ztccP0OAJPH1co8Ve89r4WSeMiqJjCzqxu1GTY6-xWm6egy9tx-70Ljcg2FyZrjaWSe7EdN6vqCWeDEw$


    I admit that this looks like sad news, but... it is what it is... :-( >>>






    --
    https://fam-tille.de

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)