I guess that this is about digital-tv tech, and I'm in the UK... :-)

I don't use YT via the standard means of having signed up and using their
web interface. So I'd welcome info on how that works from users who do.
Reason being that I'm examining what 'changes' they may make to uploaded material that then affect what users watch/hear. Emphasis for me being on
the audio.

Do people get offerred a choice of formats? If so, how is the choice
described in terms of video and audio 'quality' and codecs? How does the
user choose which one to have?

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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Jim Lesurf wrote:

I don't use YT via the standard means of having signed up and using their
web interface. So I'd welcome info on how that works from users who do. Reason being that I'm examining what 'changes' they may make to uploaded material that then affect what users watch/hear. Emphasis for me being on
the audio.

Do people get offerred a choice of formats?

You choose by "quality" which in practice means resolution (typically 144p, 240p, 360p, 480p, 720p, 1080p though some content is in 4k or even 4k@60fps)

You can't choose audio content separately, presumably browser/app negotiates that with the YT servers, you can see what audio format is in use by a "stats for nerds" overlay panel

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/yt-stats-for-nerds.png>

n.b. the 1.33 is a scaling factor that Win10 uses on high-DPI displays, this 13"
laptop is 2160x1440 which is a bit tough on the eyes

If so, how is the choice
described in terms of video and audio 'quality' and codecs? How does the
user choose which one to have?

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On 04/07/2022 10:26 am, Jim Lesurf wrote:

I guess that this is about digital-tv tech, and I'm in the UK... :-)

I don't use YT via the standard means of having signed up and using their
web interface. So I'd welcome info on how that works from users who do. Reason being that I'm examining what 'changes' they may make to uploaded material that then affect what users watch/hear. Emphasis for me being on
the audio.

Do people get offerred a choice of formats? If so, how is the choice described in terms of video and audio 'quality' and codecs? How does the
user choose which one to have?

I have a Google account which sort of logs me into YouTube when I use it
(via Chrome). As far as I am aware, there's no difference in the quality
of the content whether you are logged in or not. A paid account (which I
don't have) is reported to get rid of the adverts.

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Jim Lesurf wrote:

I don't use YT via the standard means of having signed up and using their
web interface.

You don't have to sign up, you can view (most?) videos without a google account.

Some videos may require an over18 "proof" if they're deemed particularly gruesome, alternatively if you want to watch without adverts that requires you to sign-in so they know you have paid.

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In article <[email protected]>, Andy Burns
<[email protected]> wrote:

You choose by "quality" which in practice means resolution (typically
144p, 240p, 360p, 480p, 720p, 1080p though some content is in 4k or
even 4k@60fps)

You can't choose audio content separately, presumably browser/app
negotiates that with the YT servers, you can see what audio format is
in use by a "stats for nerds" overlay panel

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/yt-stats-for-nerds.png>

n.b. the 1.33 is a scaling factor that Win10 uses on high-DPI displays,
this 13" laptop is 2160x1440 which is a bit tough on the eyes

Ta! :-) Here I can list the following which includes audio-only modes

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/YTModeList.png

However the list may vary from one item to another. Not yet checked that!

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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Google being Google they will alter it all next week or next year or
whatever.
Also if you are uploading audio, one might have thought you could just have
a page of its title and details, or maybe if its uploaded at a low bitrate, what would be the point of attempting to send it out at a higher one?
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
[email protected]
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andy Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Jim Lesurf wrote:

I don't use YT via the standard means of having signed up and using their
web interface.

You don't have to sign up, you can view (most?) videos without a google account.

Some videos may require an over18 "proof" if they're deemed particularly gruesome, alternatively if you want to watch without adverts that requires you to sign-in so they know you have paid.

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Jim Lesurf wrote:

Here I can list the following which includes audio-only modes

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/YTModeList.png

However the list may vary from one item to another. Not yet checked that!

Firefox always seems to pick VP9, android app seems to prefer AVC1, both pick opus for audio, I normally select fullHD resolution, and presume they use DASH by choice, it does seem to gracefully degrade/upgrade resolution rather than resort to buffering.

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I'm curious about what audio quality people *actually* get. The stated
details can mislead. e.g in this case the 'opus' fetches 48k sample rate -
but with some HF lost as mush. Whereas the source sent up was 44k1. So
clearly, some risk of loss of detail despite an 'apparently better' sample rate.

I'll be trying to wavevform subtractions to see what residue remains. Annoyingly, the sample rate changes mean I'l have to upsample everything to
get a higher rate, etc, that is common.

Jim


In article <t9v1hi$3dn39$[email protected]>, Brian Gaff
<[email protected]> wrote:

Google being Google they will alter it all next week or next year or whatever. Also if you are uploading audio, one might have thought you
could just have a page of its title and details, or maybe if its
uploaded at a low bitrate, what would be the point of attempting to send
it out at a higher one? Brian

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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Jim Lesurf wrote:

I'm curious about what audio quality people *actually* get.

I think it's rare for me to care about audio quality on youtube, usually it involves tinny laptop or tablet speakers.

In short ... plenty good enough.

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On 05/07/2022 10:11, Andy Burns wrote:

Jim Lesurf wrote:

I'm curious about what audio quality people *actually* get.

I think it's rare for me to care about audio quality on youtube, usually
it involves tinny laptop or tablet speakers.

In short ... plenty good enough.

Even my clothed-by-age ears draw the line at some recordings on YT :)


Jim

FWLIW if you care to post a link I'd be glad to see what (default) audio
comes through using VLC and Firefox

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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Robin wrote:

Even my clothed-by-age ears draw the line at some recordings on YT 😄

I can tell if someone's got a crap microphone, or have an annoying fan running in the background ...

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On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 10:38:14 +0100, Andy Burns <[email protected]>
wrote:

Robin wrote:

Even my clothed-by-age ears draw the line at some recordings on YT ?

I can tell if someone's got a crap microphone, or have an annoying fan running >in the background ...

Same here. My main viewing and listening setup uses the same pair of
B&W speakers I've used since about 1970 (with analogue material on FM, gramophone and tape) and there are now more differences in quality
between individual programmes or video clips than overall differences
between streaming or broadcast platforms. This would seem to suggest
that any artefacts of most modern digital audio transport mechanisms
are pretty much negligible.

Rod.

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On 04/07/2022 15:42, Jim Lesurf wrote:

In article <[email protected]>, Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:

You choose by "quality" which in practice means resolution (typically
144p, 240p, 360p, 480p, 720p, 1080p though some content is in 4k or
even 4k@60fps)

You can't choose audio content separately, presumably browser/app
negotiates that with the YT servers, you can see what audio format is
in use by a "stats for nerds" overlay panel

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/yt-stats-for-nerds.png>

n.b. the 1.33 is a scaling factor that Win10 uses on high-DPI displays,
this 13" laptop is 2160x1440 which is a bit tough on the eyes

Ta! :-) Here I can list the following which includes audio-only modes

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/YTModeList.png

However the list may vary from one item to another. Not yet checked that!

it does. Sometimes in quite a logical way like no 1080 versions of video
that was uploaded as 450p, sometimes in weird, inexplicable to me, ways.

You can use youtube-dl or yt-dlp to see what is available for a
particular YouTube video.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

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On 05/07/2022 21:54, Brian Gregory wrote:

On 04/07/2022 15:42, Jim Lesurf wrote:

In article <[email protected]>, Andy Burns
<[email protected]> wrote:

You choose by "quality" which in practice means resolution (typically
144p, 240p, 360p, 480p, 720p, 1080p though some content is in 4k or
even 4k@60fps)

You can't choose audio content separately, presumably browser/app
negotiates that with the YT servers, you can see what audio format is
in use by a "stats for nerds" overlay panel

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/yt-stats-for-nerds.png>

n.b. the 1.33 is a scaling factor that Win10 uses on high-DPI displays,
this 13" laptop is 2160x1440 which is a bit tough on the eyes

Ta! :-) Here I can list the following which includes audio-only modes

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/YTModeList.png

However the list may vary from one item to another. Not yet checked that!

it does. Sometimes in quite a logical way like no 1080 versions of video
that was uploaded as 450p, sometimes in weird, inexplicable to me, ways.

You can use youtube-dl or yt-dlp to see what is available for a
particular YouTube video.

Use -F (not -f) like this:

yt-dlp -F https://youtu.be/PnHHt_rY_OQ

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

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In article <[email protected]>, Robin <[email protected]> wrote:

Jim

FWLIW if you care to post a link I'd be glad to see what (default) audio comes through using VLC and Firefox

That's problematic at present for the test 'uploaded' file I'm using. It is
an 'ad'/'yaster' for a CD that won't become available until August. Video
of one movement of a longer work, being recorded. Using this to ensure the source is good quality well recorded audio. (Actually, its excellent. :-) )
I don't know if it has been made public yet. I'll ask.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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In article <[email protected]>, Brian Gregory <[email protected]d> wrote:

You can use youtube-dl or yt-dlp to see what is available for a
particular YouTube video.

That's what I used to get the list whose URL I gave earlier (screengrab of
what yt-dlp listed.)

FWIW I'm currently trying to work out how to specify what video and audio versions I want fetched and combined. Alas, as usual with geeky programs,
such info tends to only make sense *after* you've found the magic by experiment! Want to be able to over-rule its default 'best' assessment. As
it stands I'd have to do that via getting the vidio and audio seperately.
Then using something else like ffmpeg to stitch them together in the same
AV container file. Bit of a PITA. Doesn't matter for this investigation, though, as it is focussed on the audio quality, not the video. So I can
just use yt-dlt to give me the various audio forms to compare.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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In article <[email protected]>, Brian Gregory <[email protected]d> wrote:

Use -F (not -f) like this:

yt-dlp -F https://youtu.be/PnHHt_rY_OQ

Ta! :-)

Is there a 'makes sense to humans' explanation of the yt-dlp options? All
that I've found so far seems to make the usual programmer's assumption that
you already know everything and just want a reminder.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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This may help people see the situation wrt audio: Result of using the -F


Uploaded audio format: aac (LC) 44k1 fltp 193 kb/s

'-F' gives:


ID EXT RESOLUTION FPS | FILESIZE TBR PROTO | VCODEC
VBR ACODEC ABR ASR MORE INFO ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
139-dash m4a audio only | 1.87MiB 50k dash |
mp4a.40.5 50k 22050Hz DASH audio, m4a_dash
140-dash m4a audio only | 4.96MiB 130k dash |
mp4a.40.2 130k 44100Hz DASH audio, m4a_dash
251-dash webm audio only | 5.23MiB 149k dash |
opus 149k 48000Hz DASH audio, webm_dash
139 m4a audio only | 1.87MiB 48k https |
mp4a.40.5 48k 22050Hz low, m4a_dash
140 m4a audio only | 4.96MiB 129k https |
mp4a.40.2 129k 44100Hz medium, m4a_dash
251 webm audio only | 5.23MiB 136k https |
opus 136k 48000Hz medium, webm_dash
17 3gp 176x144 6 | 2.97MiB 77k https | mp4v.20.3 77k mp4a.40.2 0k 22050Hz 144p
160 mp4 256x144 25 | ~4.23MiB 108k dash | avc1.4d400b 108k
DASH video, mp4_dash
278 webm 256x144 25 | ~3.72MiB 95k dash | vp9 95k
DASH video, webm_dash
133 mp4 426x240 25 | ~9.48MiB 242k dash | avc1.4d400c 242k
DASH video, mp4_dash
242 webm 426x240 25 | ~8.64MiB 220k dash | vp9 220k
DASH video, webm_dash
134-dash mp4 640x360 25 | 15.14MiB 816k dash | avc1.4d401e 816k
DASH video, mp4_dash
134 mp4 640x360 25 | 15.14MiB 395k https | avc1.4d401e 395k
360p, mp4_dash
18 mp4 640x360 25 | 18.56MiB 484k https | avc1.42001E 484k mp4a.40.2 0k 44100Hz 360p
243 webm 640x360 25 | ~15.90MiB 405k dash | vp9 405k
DASH video, webm_dash
135 mp4 854x480 25 | ~45.26MiB 1155k dash | avc1.4d4014 1155k
DASH video, mp4_dash
244 webm 854x480 25 | ~29.49MiB 752k dash | vp9 752k
DASH video, webm_dash
136 mp4 1280x720 25 | 58.85MiB 1537k https | avc1.64001f 1537k
720p, THROTTLED, mp4_dash
136-dash mp4 1280x720 25 | 58.85MiB 2895k dash | avc1.64001f 2895k
DASH video, mp4_dash
22 mp4 1280x720 25 | ~65.28MiB 1665k https | avc1.64001F 1665k mp4a.40.2 0k 44100Hz 720p
247 webm 1280x720 25 | ~58.98MiB 1505k dash | vp9 1505k
DASH video, webm_dash
298 mp4 1280x720 50 | ~135.77MiB 3465k dash | avc1.4d400d 3465k
DASH video, mp4_dash
302 webm 1280x720 50 | ~103.68MiB 2646k dash | vp9 2646k
DASH video, webm_dash
299-dash mp4 1920x1080 50 | 140.61MiB 7875k dash | avc1.64002a 7875k
DASH video, mp4_dash
299 mp4 1920x1080 50 | 140.61MiB 3673k https | avc1.64002a 3673k
1080p50, mp4_dash
303 webm 1920x1080 50 | ~172.80MiB 4410k dash | vp9 4410k
DASH video, webm_dash

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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