• Film 4 break bumper pixellation

    From NY@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 17 12:32:57 2025
    Something that has always intrigued me. The break bumper (still picture with the channel logo at the end of an ad break, immediately before each part of
    a film) for Film 4 often has a single frame where the logo is pixellated. Is
    it by design, or a quirk of transmission? These frames are from a film transmitted in SD on DVB-S2 last night:

    https://i.postimg.cc/WbX9FRP4/Miss-Peregrine-s-Home-for-20250517-0130-014-Film4.png
    https://i.postimg.cc/vZT05PQt/Miss-Peregrine-s-Home-for-20250517-0130-014-Film4-02.png

    It happened in many but not all the ad breaks in the film.

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue May 20 11:45:32 2025
    NY <[email protected]d> wrote:
    Something that has always intrigued me. The break bumper (still picture with the channel logo at the end of an ad break, immediately before each part of
    a film) for Film 4 often has a single frame where the logo is pixellated. Is it by design, or a quirk of transmission? These frames are from a film transmitted in SD on DVB-S2 last night:

    https://i.postimg.cc/WbX9FRP4/Miss-Peregrine-s-Home-for-20250517-0130-014-Film4.png
    https://i.postimg.cc/vZT05PQt/Miss-Peregrine-s-Home-for-20250517-0130-014-Film4-02.png

    It happened in many but not all the ad breaks in the film.

    Low enough bandwidth that they don't have time to send the full image in a single frame, so you only get the low frequency elements?

    (ie the first frame has been low pass filtered and the higher frequency
    parts arrive in subsequent frames when the bandwidth allows)

    Theo

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  • From NY@21:1/5 to Theo on Tue May 20 13:00:04 2025
    "Theo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:m-q*[email protected]...
    NY <[email protected]d> wrote:
    Something that has always intrigued me. The break bumper (still picture
    with
    the channel logo at the end of an ad break, immediately before each part
    of
    a film) for Film 4 often has a single frame where the logo is pixellated.
    Is
    it by design, or a quirk of transmission? These frames are from a film
    transmitted in SD on DVB-S2 last night:

    https://i.postimg.cc/WbX9FRP4/Miss-Peregrine-s-Home-for-20250517-0130-014-Film4.png
    https://i.postimg.cc/vZT05PQt/Miss-Peregrine-s-Home-for-20250517-0130-014-Film4-02.png

    It happened in many but not all the ad breaks in the film.

    Low enough bandwidth that they don't have time to send the full image in a single frame, so you only get the low frequency elements?

    (ie the first frame has been low pass filtered and the higher frequency
    parts arrive in subsequent frames when the bandwidth allows)

    Plausible, but it seems to happen only once (if at all) per advert break.
    I'll have to see if it always happens a certain number of frames before the logo disappears and the first frame of the film appears. The fact that it
    only happens once per break makes me wonder whether it's being used as a cue dot.

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed May 21 13:04:45 2025
    NY <[email protected]d> wrote:
    "Theo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:m-q*[email protected]...
    NY <[email protected]d> wrote:
    Something that has always intrigued me. The break bumper (still picture
    with
    the channel logo at the end of an ad break, immediately before each part >> of
    a film) for Film 4 often has a single frame where the logo is pixellated. >> Is
    it by design, or a quirk of transmission? These frames are from a film
    transmitted in SD on DVB-S2 last night:

    https://i.postimg.cc/WbX9FRP4/Miss-Peregrine-s-Home-for-20250517-0130-014-Film4.png
    https://i.postimg.cc/vZT05PQt/Miss-Peregrine-s-Home-for-20250517-0130-014-Film4-02.png

    It happened in many but not all the ad breaks in the film.

    Low enough bandwidth that they don't have time to send the full image in a single frame, so you only get the low frequency elements?

    (ie the first frame has been low pass filtered and the higher frequency parts arrive in subsequent frames when the bandwidth allows)

    Plausible, but it seems to happen only once (if at all) per advert break. I'll have to see if it always happens a certain number of frames before the logo disappears and the first frame of the film appears. The fact that it only happens once per break makes me wonder whether it's being used as a cue dot.

    I don't know specifics of DVB-S, but in many video formats they send a full frame regularly (every second or few) and between send the differences from each succeeding frame. There's more bandwidth reserved for the full frames. But if you cut from one scene to another you may still be receiving deltas
    from the previous scene, and that can cause fuzzy images until the next slot for the full frame. Depending on the timing it could cause things to be
    fuzzy for a short while until the updates catch up.

    (This is how basic MPEG/etc works. I don't know if the encoders are a bit
    more adaptive in that they can adjust the full frame timing to align with
    scene changes while still keeping within the bandwidth limit. There's
    possibly less scope for that on live feeds where you can't look ahead)

    Theo

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  • From NY@21:1/5 to Theo on Thu Jun 5 10:31:17 2025
    "Theo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:n-q*[email protected]...
    I don't know specifics of DVB-S, but in many video formats they send a
    full
    frame regularly (every second or few) and between send the differences
    from
    each succeeding frame. There's more bandwidth reserved for the full
    frames.
    But if you cut from one scene to another you may still be receiving deltas from the previous scene, and that can cause fuzzy images until the next
    slot
    for the full frame. Depending on the timing it could cause things to be fuzzy for a short while until the updates catch up.

    (This is how basic MPEG/etc works. I don't know if the encoders are a bit more adaptive in that they can adjust the full frame timing to align with scene changes while still keeping within the bandwidth limit. There's possibly less scope for that on live feeds where you can't look ahead)


    I did the usual test: I recorded the same film on both DVB-S and DVB-T. I
    found a break bumper where there was a single frame glitch on DVB-T and
    looked for the corresponding glitch on DVB-S. There wasn't one. So it wasn't the signal that Film 4 were sending out; it was an anomaly in the MPEG encoding. Like an idiot, I forgot to check what type of frame it was - ie
    was it a full frame, or was it an incremental difference frame of one form
    or another? Until then, I was still wondering whether it was a cue-dot type
    of signalling.

    Strange that I've only noticed it on Film 4. Other channels have break
    bumpers that have static images so would be an equivalent test for coding glitches.


    Normally MPEG encoders detect a change of shot and always throw a full frame
    at the point, even if it's not at the normal cycle of full frame followed by
    n difference frames. I was curious so I single-stepped through a video using the very useful VideoReDo app that I use for removing continuity and adverts from things I want to keep: it can be set to display the type of frame, I,
    B, P etc.

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