• Amateur radio: more freedom to innovate

    From Brian Howie@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 22 07:42:28 2024
    The new licence conditions came into effect yesterday.

    The changes are much expected from the consultation, with some aspects
    coming into force later in the year.

    <Https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2024/amateur-radio-more-freedom-to- innovate>

    Details here :-

    <https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0029/278345/amateur-radi o-general-notice-decision.pdf>

    Overview is on page 1 and the detail in Appendix A1.

    How is it going to affect you ?

    Me ? Not a lot as I only operate on 50MHz and above these days and the
    power limits are only going up on 50MHz and 144MHz of the bands I use.

    I might run an unattended beacon now and again .

    I'll have a listen on 40m to see if the UK stations are noticeably
    louder ;-)

    Brian GM4DIJ
    --
    Brian Howie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Feb 23 19:57:51 2024
    In message <[email protected]>, Brian Howie
    <[email protected]> writes

    The new licence conditions came into effect yesterday.

    The changes are much expected from the consultation, with some aspects >coming into force later in the year.

    <Https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2024/amateur-radio-more-freedom-to- >innovate>

    Details here :-

    <https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0029/278345/amateur-radi >o-general-notice-decision.pdf>

    Overview is on page 1 and the detail in Appendix A1.

    How is it going to affect you ?

    Me ? Not a lot as I only operate on 50MHz and above these days and
    the power limits are only going up on 50MHz and 144MHz of the bands I
    use.

    I might run an unattended beacon now and again .

    I'll have a listen on 40m to see if the UK stations are noticeably
    louder ;-)

    Brian GM4DIJ

    Being now what I suppose is an 'old timer', I'm also a bit of a Victor
    Meldrew. Nevertheless, I'm not totally resistant to change, and I can't
    see too much to object to with the changes.

    However, one change that I feel rather unhappy about is allowing the
    on-air use of the secondary locator to be optional. Why is this
    necessary? I understand that this is the primarily the result of
    pressure from the dedicated contest groups who, having already got their single-letter callsigns, presumably feel that the removal of yet another character will gain them a few more milliseconds in which to earn a few
    extra points. [And isn't it the contesters who have been hinting that a
    kW would be nice to have?] Also, I believe that the dropping of a
    regional locator goes along with OFCOM's database, which (AIUI) can no
    longer handle a secondary locator, and therefore knows us all as simply
    Gs and Ms.

    I'm also sad to see that the floodgates are to be opened on the
    re-issuing of old callsigns (although this has, to a limited extent,
    been going on for years). It will be strange to hear newcomers popping
    up with venerated (and often famous) callsigns, but at least it will
    avoid OFCOM having to issue callsigns with some new weird and wonderful
    obscure UK prefix (as they did for the IL licences - which I understand
    will soon be able to be exchanged for an M).
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zach Metzinger@21:1/5 to Brian Howie on Fri Feb 23 15:01:36 2024
    On 2/22/24 01:42, Brian Howie wrote:

    The new licence conditions came into effect yesterday.

    How is allowing more power a license to innovate? Perhaps now, black
    appliance operators can stomp on each other during contests with more
    fractions of a S-unit?

    IMO, turning _down_ the power would encourage more innovation.

    73.

    --- Zach
    N0ZGO

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From mm0fmf@21:1/5 to Zach Metzinger on Sat Feb 24 13:11:37 2024
    On 23/02/2024 21:01, Zach Metzinger wrote:
    How is allowing more power a license to innovate?

    It isn't because that is one of the minor changes to the licence.

    The removal of lots of restrictions that just allow you to do things
    without getting approval or do things that were not allowed before is
    more likely to innovate.

    It's like the saying "if your only tool is a hammer then all your
    problems are nails". You need to look beyond power limits as being the principle defining aspect of amateur radio.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From mm0fmf@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Sat Feb 24 13:18:18 2024
    On 23/02/2024 19:57, Ian Jackson wrote:
    It will be strange to hear newcomers popping up with venerated (and
    often famous) callsigns

    Ian, you have a 1961-ish call and you had to be 14 to get a licence
    which means you are at least 76. It's more likely that you will have
    shuffled off your mortal coil and your own call get recycled than for
    you to hear on the air many of calls from the old timers of your youth.
    It shouldn't be something to worry you too much. It's just a brutal fact
    of getting old.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 25 13:17:05 2024
    In message <urcqas$173ue$[email protected]>, mm0fmf <[email protected]>
    writes
    On 23/02/2024 19:57, Ian Jackson wrote:
    It will be strange to hear newcomers popping up with venerated (and
    often famous) callsigns

    Ian, you have a 1961-ish call and you had to be 14 to get a licence
    which means you are at least 76. It's more likely that you will have
    shuffled off your mortal coil and your own call get recycled than for
    you to hear on the air many of calls from the old timers of your youth.
    It shouldn't be something to worry you too much. It's just a brutal
    fact of getting old.

    August 1960, and I remember the day I got it - and my first QSO. Pity
    the one who grave-robs my callsign, as I'll be coming back to haunt the
    one who gets it!
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Julian Macassey@21:1/5 to Zach Metzinger on Mon Feb 26 00:39:41 2024
    On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 15:01:36 -0600, Zach Metzinger <[email protected]d> wrote:

    How is allowing more power a license to innovate? Perhaps now, black appliance operators can stomp on each other during contests with more fractions of a S-unit?

    All contesters are S9 that's the onl signal report I hear from contesters, "FahveNineQSL..QRZ?"


    --
    The NHS will last as long as there are folk left with faith to
    fight for it. - Aneurin Bevan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mm0fmf@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Sun Feb 25 17:18:51 2024
    On 25/02/2024 13:17, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <urcqas$173ue$[email protected]>, mm0fmf <[email protected]> writes
    On 23/02/2024 19:57, Ian Jackson wrote:
    It will be strange to hear newcomers popping up with venerated (and
    often famous) callsigns

    Ian, you have a 1961-ish call and you had to be 14 to get a licence
    which means you are at least 76. It's more likely that you will have
    shuffled off your mortal coil and your own call get recycled than for
    you to hear on the air many of calls from the old timers of your
    youth. It shouldn't be something to worry you too much. It's just a
    brutal fact of getting old.

    August 1960, and I remember the day I got it - and my first QSO. Pity
    the one who grave-robs my callsign, as I'll be coming back to haunt the
    one who gets it!

    There are places all around the world that have been recycling calls
    since the dawn of time. Without problem.

    I'm sure there'll be some levers in Ofcom's system that can be pulled
    that ensures famous calls can be held back. Likewise calls with too much baggage such as G4SDW. I know of 2 amateurs who have been inside at Her Majesty's pleasure, you wouldn't want the call from the guy who went on
    the Sex Offenders Register either.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dave Sergeant@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 26 06:49:03 2024
    In article <+gFMEXH$[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    However, one change that I feel rather unhappy about is allowing the
    on-air use of the secondary locator to be optional. Why is this
    necessary? I understand that this is the primarily the result of
    pressure from the dedicated contest groups who, having already got their single-letter callsigns, presumably feel that the removal of yet another character will gain them a few more milliseconds in which to earn a few
    extra points. [And isn't it the contesters who have been hinting that a
    kW would be nice to have?] Also, I believe that the dropping of a
    regional locator goes along with OFCOM's database, which (AIUI) can no
    longer handle a secondary locator, and therefore knows us all as simply
    Gs and Ms.



    There has been widespread opposition to making secondary locators
    optional especially among the contesting and dxing fraternity. So much
    so in that the UK HF contesting rules have already to be updated to make
    them mandatory for entrants. Most amateurs are proud of living in GM, GW
    etc and will keep using these regardless of what Ofcom would like.

    As to power, many full licencees will certainly use their new 1kW, but
    there again many have already been using it so guess we won't notice. I
    am continuing to work the world with my QRP 5W with great success.

    By and large a load of waffle and nothing much will change in the real
    world.

    73 Dave G3YMC

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mm0fmf@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Tue Feb 27 08:04:02 2024
    On 25/02/2024 13:17, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <urcqas$173ue$[email protected]>, mm0fmf <[email protected]> writes
    On 23/02/2024 19:57, Ian Jackson wrote:
    It will be strange to hear newcomers popping up with venerated (and
    often famous) callsigns

    Ian, you have a 1961-ish call and you had to be 14 to get a licence
    which means you are at least 76. It's more likely that you will have
    shuffled off your mortal coil and your own call get recycled than for
    you to hear on the air many of calls from the old timers of your
    youth. It shouldn't be something to worry you too much. It's just a
    brutal fact of getting old.

    August 1960, and I remember the day I got it - and my first QSO. Pity
    the one who grave-robs my callsign, as I'll be coming back to haunt the
    one who gets it!

    Do you do the same to people who have bought your old cars and are
    driving around using your registration plates?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 27 20:36:55 2024
    In message <urk51j$33d8m$[email protected]>, mm0fmf <[email protected]>
    writes
    On 25/02/2024 13:17, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <urcqas$173ue$[email protected]>, mm0fmf <[email protected]> writes >>> On 23/02/2024 19:57, Ian Jackson wrote:
    It will be strange to hear newcomers popping up with venerated (and >>>>often famous) callsigns

    Ian, you have a 1961-ish call and you had to be 14 to get a licence >>>which means you are at least 76. It's more likely that you will have >>>shuffled off your mortal coil and your own call get recycled than for
    you to hear on the air many of calls from the old timers of your
    youth. It shouldn't be something to worry you too much. It's just a >>>brutal fact of getting old.

    August 1960, and I remember the day I got it - and my first QSO. Pity
    the one who grave-robs my callsign, as I'll be coming back to haunt
    the one who gets it!

    Do you do the same to people who have bought your old cars and are
    driving around using your registration plates?

    With one or two exceptions, I was generally glad to get rid of most of
    my old cars. Most probably went straight to the scrap yard. That said, I
    still easily remember the registrations of the first four I owned, and I
    have many happy memories of operating /M in them. Unlike my callsign of
    64 years, the longest I had most of my cars was around 10 years, so I
    therefore doubt if I will making any spectral visitations to their
    subsequent owners.
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Wed Feb 28 08:15:22 2024
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urcqas$173ue$[email protected]>, mm0fmf <[email protected]>
    writes
    On 23/02/2024 19:57, Ian Jackson wrote:
    It will be strange to hear newcomers popping up with venerated (and
    often famous) callsigns

    Ian, you have a 1961-ish call and you had to be 14 to get a licence
    which means you are at least 76. It's more likely that you will have
    shuffled off your mortal coil and your own call get recycled than for
    you to hear on the air many of calls from the old timers of your youth.
    It shouldn't be something to worry you too much. It's just a brutal
    fact of getting old.

    August 1960, and I remember the day I got it - and my first QSO. Pity
    the one who grave-robs my callsign, as I'll be coming back to haunt the
    one who gets it!


    Do you ‘haunt’ those who drive cars you previously owned, which I assume have ‘your’ registration number?


    If you lived in the US and had moved around, chances are you would have
    been forced ( by the FCC) to change your callsign. At one time, they issued them based on location as well as Class.

    The one I picked, would, I believe, originally have been allocated to one
    of the mid/ northern states. I think it was either Advanced or Extra. As an Extra, I can pick any available licence. AFAIK, mine was never previously issued. I picked it as it is only one letter different from my UK callsign.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian@21:1/5 to Dave Sergeant on Wed Feb 28 08:31:22 2024
    Dave Sergeant <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <+gFMEXH$[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    However, one change that I feel rather unhappy about is allowing the
    on-air use of the secondary locator to be optional. Why is this
    necessary? I understand that this is the primarily the result of
    pressure from the dedicated contest groups who, having already got their
    single-letter callsigns, presumably feel that the removal of yet another
    character will gain them a few more milliseconds in which to earn a few
    extra points. [And isn't it the contesters who have been hinting that a
    kW would be nice to have?] Also, I believe that the dropping of a
    regional locator goes along with OFCOM's database, which (AIUI) can no
    longer handle a secondary locator, and therefore knows us all as simply
    Gs and Ms.



    There has been widespread opposition to making secondary locators
    optional especially among the contesting and dxing fraternity. So much
    so in that the UK HF contesting rules have already to be updated to make
    them mandatory for entrants. Most amateurs are proud of living in GM, GW
    etc and will keep using these regardless of what Ofcom would like.

    As to power, many full licencees will certainly use their new 1kW, but
    there again many have already been using it so guess we won't notice. I
    am continuing to work the world with my QRP 5W with great success.

    By and large a load of waffle and nothing much will change in the real
    world.

    73 Dave G3YMC




    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland etc were issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and later it was included.

    I vaguely recall it being raised with the RSGB but don’t recall the details beyond the M, W etc should be used in the relevant Country although later
    the caveat was mentioned there was ‘no regulatory need’ for it.


    At the time ‘no regulatory need’ was the in vogue buzz word in Government / pseudo Government depts which were trying to cut red tape.


    There were ‘concerns’ removal may cause issues - everything from people being attached to their callsigns, Contests, DXCC, ……. and it all went quiet.

    I suspect this is Ofcom ticking a box “ We removed x number of restrictions on radio licensees. Give us a bonus.”

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Howie@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Feb 28 09:25:55 2024
    In message <urb13i$o5d0$[email protected]>, Zach Metzinger <[email protected]d> writes
    On 2/22/24 01:42, Brian Howie wrote:
    The new licence conditions came into effect yesterday.

    How is allowing more power a license to innovate? Perhaps now, black >appliance operators can stomp on each other during contests with more >fractions of a S-unit?

    IMO, turning _down_ the power would encourage more innovation.

    73.

    --- Zach
    N0ZGO


    Ionospheric scatter ?

    <
    https://ei7gl.blogspot.com/2020/07/144-mhz-weak-signal-ionosphere-scatter .html>

    That's about all I can think of. Moon bounce seems to use the WSJT modes
    , so less power is needed,

    The short waves just seems to be an arms race, particularly on contests Fractions of an S point only help on marginal paths or to stay above
    the QRM.

    The maximum I run is about 100W on any band, I don't think I'll change
    that. I do have a 3CX800 amplifier for 50MHz which I might now be
    spurred on to complete one day, but I daren't use that at home,

    Brian GM4DIJ


    --
    Brian Howie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to Brian on Wed Feb 28 11:31:30 2024
    In message <urmr0q$3oma7$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes






    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland etc were >issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and later it was >included.

    For many tears haven't ALL UK callsigns been listed without the
    secondary locator? Doesn't (say) a GM operating abroad under CEPT have
    to drop the Scottish bit, and simply use the G? Presumably they will
    have to now?






    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Thu Feb 29 09:01:50 2024
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urmr0q$3oma7$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes






    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland etc were >> issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and later it was >> included.

    For many tears haven't ALL UK callsigns been listed without the
    secondary locator? Doesn't (say) a GM operating abroad under CEPT have
    to drop the Scottish bit, and simply use the G? Presumably they will
    have to now?


    Interesting question.

    Not that I know the answer.

    I doubt anyone considered that. It is probably a CEPT level question or
    even local country, eg France may expect F/ GM3ABC but another country just ?/G3ABC

    The identifiers were a UK ‘thing’. It is possible, officially, other licensing authorities aren’t aware of them / don’t acknowledge them.

    Other countries use / used different methods to allocate callsigns by
    region, where it was / is done. The US stopped doing it. I think France has
    a scheme, although more for former colonies etc than regions of mainland France.

    I’ve no strong feelings on the topic. I can understand those who have a GM, MW etc and perhaps have QSL cards, are Contest operators, etc being irked.


    I am concerned about some of the other changes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Howie@21:1/5 to Brian on Thu Feb 29 09:22:55 2024
    In message <urph5u$eh4t$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urmr0q$3oma7$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes






    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland etc were >>> issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and later it was >>> included.

    For many tears haven't ALL UK callsigns been listed without the
    secondary locator? Doesn't (say) a GM operating abroad under CEPT have
    to drop the Scottish bit, and simply use the G? Presumably they will
    have to now?


    Interesting question.

    Not that I know the answer.

    I doubt anyone considered that. It is probably a CEPT level question or
    even local country, eg France may expect F/ GM3ABC but another country just >?/G3ABC

    The identifiers were a UK ‘thing’. It is possible, officially, other >licensing authorities aren’t aware of them / don’t acknowledge them.

    Other countries use / used different methods to allocate callsigns by
    region, where it was / is done. The US stopped doing it. I think France has
    a scheme, although more for former colonies etc than regions of mainland >France.

    I’ve no strong feelings on the topic. I can understand those who have a GM, >MW etc and perhaps have QSL cards, are Contest operators, etc being irked.


    I am concerned about some of the other changes.


    Jack Hum's callbook from the 1930s shows no distinction between England, Scotland, Wales, NI etc. In fact the G prefix didn't exist. There's an appended call book listing showing the G prefix , but not GM , but there
    are GIs.

    https://www.dokufunk.org/upload/g_callbook_20-34.pdf

    It looks like we've reverted to post WW2 . I've no idea when GM, GW etc
    were introduced. Late 40s early 50s?

    Brian GM4DIJ
    --
    Brian Howie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Feb 29 15:07:32 2024
    In message <[email protected]>, Brian Howie
    <[email protected]> writes
    In message <urph5u$eh4t$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urmr0q$3oma7$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes






    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland etc were
    issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and later it was
    included.

    For many tears haven't ALL UK callsigns been listed without the
    secondary locator? Doesn't (say) a GM operating abroad under CEPT have
    to drop the Scottish bit, and simply use the G? Presumably they will
    have to now?


    Interesting question.

    Not that I know the answer.

    I doubt anyone considered that. It is probably a CEPT level question or >>even local country, eg France may expect F/ GM3ABC but another country just >>?/G3ABC

    The identifiers were a UK ‘thing’. It is possible, officially, other >>licensing authorities aren’t aware of them / don’t acknowledge them.

    Other countries use / used different methods to allocate callsigns by >>region, where it was / is done. The US stopped doing it. I think France has >>a scheme, although more for former colonies etc than regions of mainland >>France.

    I’ve no strong feelings on the topic. I can understand those who have a GM, >>MW etc and perhaps have QSL cards, are Contest operators, etc being irked.


    I am concerned about some of the other changes.


    Jack Hum's callbook from the 1930s shows no distinction between
    England, Scotland, Wales, NI etc. In fact the G prefix didn't exist.
    There's an appended call book listing showing the G prefix , but not GM
    , but there are GIs.

    https://www.dokufunk.org/upload/g_callbook_20-34.pdf

    It looks like we've reverted to post WW2 .

    Pre WW2

    I've no idea when GM, GW etc were introduced. Late 40s early 50s?

    I have copies of all the RSGB 'monthlies' back to 1925, and I'm
    searching through the 1930s to see when secondary locators first appear. They're certainly there towards the end, but I can't see any at the
    beginning. I'll report back.
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian@21:1/5 to Brian Howie on Thu Feb 29 15:20:27 2024
    Brian Howie <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urph5u$eh4t$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urmr0q$3oma7$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes






    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland etc were
    issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and later it was
    included.

    For many tears haven't ALL UK callsigns been listed without the
    secondary locator? Doesn't (say) a GM operating abroad under CEPT have
    to drop the Scottish bit, and simply use the G? Presumably they will
    have to now?


    Interesting question.

    Not that I know the answer.

    I doubt anyone considered that. It is probably a CEPT level question or
    even local country, eg France may expect F/ GM3ABC but another country just >> ?/G3ABC

    The identifiers were a UK ‘thing’. It is possible, officially, other
    licensing authorities aren’t aware of them / don’t acknowledge them.

    Other countries use / used different methods to allocate callsigns by
    region, where it was / is done. The US stopped doing it. I think France has >> a scheme, although more for former colonies etc than regions of mainland
    France.

    I’ve no strong feelings on the topic. I can understand those who have a GM,
    MW etc and perhaps have QSL cards, are Contest operators, etc being irked. >>

    I am concerned about some of the other changes.


    Jack Hum's callbook from the 1930s shows no distinction between England, Scotland, Wales, NI etc. In fact the G prefix didn't exist. There's an appended call book listing showing the G prefix , but not GM , but there
    are GIs.

    https://www.dokufunk.org/upload/g_callbook_20-34.pdf

    It looks like we've reverted to post WW2 . I've no idea when GM, GW etc
    were introduced. Late 40s early 50s?

    Brian GM4DIJ

    I seem to recall the pre WW2 licences were ‘Artificial Aerial Licences’ and didn’t even have a G prefix - at least officially.


    The various letters, G, M, and I think Z, were allocated to the UK in the
    early part of the 20th Century, but were used for Maritime, early
    Broadcast, and Commercial stations callsigns etc. ( eg the one at
    Chelmsford ). I believe amateurs started adding G, perhaps with the tacit approval, of the PO rather than new licences being issued.

    Post WW2, the use of G was formalised and other changes made- including the introduction of the RAE.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Feb 29 15:50:17 2024
    In message <[email protected]>, Brian Howie
    <[email protected]> writes
    In message <urph5u$eh4t$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urmr0q$3oma7$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes






    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland etc were
    issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and later it was
    included.

    For many tears haven't ALL UK callsigns been listed without the
    secondary locator? Doesn't (say) a GM operating abroad under CEPT have
    to drop the Scottish bit, and simply use the G? Presumably they will
    have to now?


    Interesting question.

    Not that I know the answer.

    I doubt anyone considered that. It is probably a CEPT level question or >>even local country, eg France may expect F/ GM3ABC but another country just >>?/G3ABC

    The identifiers were a UK ‘thing’. It is possible, officially, other >>licensing authorities aren’t aware of them / don’t acknowledge them.

    Other countries use / used different methods to allocate callsigns by >>region, where it was / is done. The US stopped doing it. I think France has >>a scheme, although more for former colonies etc than regions of mainland >>France.

    I’ve no strong feelings on the topic. I can understand those who have a GM, >>MW etc and perhaps have QSL cards, are Contest operators, etc being irked.


    I am concerned about some of the other changes.


    Jack Hum's callbook from the 1930s shows no distinction between
    England, Scotland, Wales, NI etc. In fact the G prefix didn't exist.
    There's an appended call book listing showing the G prefix , but not GM
    , but there are GIs.

    https://www.dokufunk.org/upload/g_callbook_20-34.pdf

    It looks like we've reverted to post WW2 . I've no idea when GM, GW etc
    were introduced. Late 40s early 50s?

    Well, it's not immediately obvious when the change occurred. In the
    monthly regional reports, in January 1935 there's

    "Northern Ireland.
    GI appears to be recovering from the festive
    season, as an atmosphere of quiet prevails!"

    (but no GI callsigns mentioned). But even at the end of 1935 the
    Scottish 2-letter calls are still simply G, and the 2 and 3 +3-letter
    calls still have no primary locator at all. By Dec 1935, GI's seem to be regularly using GI (possibly because EI was already using EI?).
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Feb 29 20:26:24 2024
    In message <[email protected]>, Ian Jackson <[email protected]> writes
    In message <[email protected]>, Brian Howie ><[email protected]> writes
    In message <urph5u$eh4t$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urmr0q$3oma7$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes >>>>





    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland >>>>>etc were
    issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and
    later it was
    included.

    For many tears haven't ALL UK callsigns been listed without the
    secondary locator? Doesn't (say) a GM operating abroad under CEPT have >>>> to drop the Scottish bit, and simply use the G? Presumably they will
    have to now?


    Interesting question.

    Not that I know the answer.

    I doubt anyone considered that. It is probably a CEPT level question or >>>even local country, eg France may expect F/ GM3ABC but another country just >>>?/G3ABC

    The identifiers were a UK ‘thing’. It is possible, officially, other >>>licensing authorities aren’t aware of them / don’t acknowledge them.

    Other countries use / used different methods to allocate callsigns by >>>region, where it was / is done. The US stopped doing it. I think France has >>>a scheme, although more for former colonies etc than regions of mainland >>>France.

    I’ve no strong feelings on the topic. I can understand those who have a GM,
    MW etc and perhaps have QSL cards, are Contest operators, etc being irked. >>>

    I am concerned about some of the other changes.


    Jack Hum's callbook from the 1930s shows no distinction between
    England, Scotland, Wales, NI etc. In fact the G prefix didn't exist. >>There's an appended call book listing showing the G prefix , but not
    GM , but there are GIs.

    https://www.dokufunk.org/upload/g_callbook_20-34.pdf

    It looks like we've reverted to post WW2 . I've no idea when GM, GW
    etc were introduced. Late 40s early 50s?

    Well, it's not immediately obvious when the change occurred. In the
    monthly regional reports, in January 1935 there's

    "Northern Ireland.
    GI appears to be recovering from the festive
    season, as an atmosphere of quiet prevails!"

    (but no GI callsigns mentioned). But even at the end of 1935 the
    Scottish 2-letter calls are still simply G, and the 2 and 3 +3-letter
    calls still have no primary locator at all. By Dec 1935, GI's seem to
    be regularly using GI (possibly because EI was already using EI?).

    Further to my previous ramblings, I have found that in the regional
    reports in the March 1937 issue of the T&R Bulletin, GMs are reported as
    having been granted the M in GM. There is a reference to "this
    privilege" being allowed this before, but it having been removed. All
    the radiating callsigns in the regional report for Scotland are GMs.

    Wales followed later (reported in August 1937) by being granted the W in
    GW.

    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of some
    G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Fri Mar 1 14:00:08 2024
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <[email protected]>, Ian Jackson <[email protected]> writes
    In message <[email protected]>, Brian Howie
    <[email protected]> writes
    In message <urph5u$eh4t$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urmr0q$3oma7$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes >>>>>





    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland >>>>>> etc were
    issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and
    later it was
    included.

    For many tears haven't ALL UK callsigns been listed without the
    secondary locator? Doesn't (say) a GM operating abroad under CEPT have >>>>> to drop the Scottish bit, and simply use the G? Presumably they will >>>>> have to now?


    Interesting question.

    Not that I know the answer.

    I doubt anyone considered that. It is probably a CEPT level question or >>>> even local country, eg France may expect F/ GM3ABC but another country just
    ?/G3ABC

    The identifiers were a UK ‘thing’. It is possible, officially, other >>>> licensing authorities aren’t aware of them / don’t acknowledge them. >>>>
    Other countries use / used different methods to allocate callsigns by
    region, where it was / is done. The US stopped doing it. I think France has
    a scheme, although more for former colonies etc than regions of mainland >>>> France.

    I’ve no strong feelings on the topic. I can understand those who have a GM,
    MW etc and perhaps have QSL cards, are Contest operators, etc being irked. >>>>

    I am concerned about some of the other changes.


    Jack Hum's callbook from the 1930s shows no distinction between
    England, Scotland, Wales, NI etc. In fact the G prefix didn't exist.
    There's an appended call book listing showing the G prefix , but not
    GM , but there are GIs.

    https://www.dokufunk.org/upload/g_callbook_20-34.pdf

    It looks like we've reverted to post WW2 . I've no idea when GM, GW
    etc were introduced. Late 40s early 50s?

    Well, it's not immediately obvious when the change occurred. In the
    monthly regional reports, in January 1935 there's

    "Northern Ireland.
    GI appears to be recovering from the festive
    season, as an atmosphere of quiet prevails!"

    (but no GI callsigns mentioned). But even at the end of 1935 the
    Scottish 2-letter calls are still simply G, and the 2 and 3 +3-letter
    calls still have no primary locator at all. By Dec 1935, GI's seem to
    be regularly using GI (possibly because EI was already using EI?).

    Further to my previous ramblings, I have found that in the regional
    reports in the March 1937 issue of the T&R Bulletin, GMs are reported as having been granted the M in GM. There is a reference to "this
    privilege" being allowed this before, but it having been removed. All
    the radiating callsigns in the regional report for Scotland are GMs.

    Wales followed later (reported in August 1937) by being granted the W in
    GW.

    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of some G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    I knew G2MI many years ago. I recall him relating how the rules not only changed to and fro but were ‘flexible’. In theory, holders of artificial aerial licences were very limited but still managed to make contacts which defied the supposed design of their stations.

    He always finished these stories with a chuckle or a wink.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 1 10:20:33 2024
    Further to my previous ramblings, I have found that in the regional
    reports in the March 1937 issue of the T&R Bulletin, GMs are reported as having been granted the M in GM. There is a reference to "this
    privilege" being allowed this before, but it having been removed. All
    the radiating callsigns in the regional report for Scotland are GMs.

    Wales followed later (reported in August 1937) by being granted the W in
    GW.

    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of some G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign nationals.

    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to Jeff on Fri Mar 1 22:58:00 2024
    In message <ursa5j$168f1$[email protected]>, Jeff <[email protected]> writes

    Further to my previous ramblings, I have found that in the regional >>reports in the March 1937 issue of the T&R Bulletin, GMs are reported
    as having been granted the M in GM. There is a reference to "this >>privilege" being allowed this before, but it having been removed. All
    the radiating callsigns in the regional report for Scotland are GMs.
    Wales followed later (reported in August 1937) by being granted the
    W in GW.
    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of
    some G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these
    were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign nationals.

    But not until the middle 60s. These were later discontinued for reasons
    of security, because it was realised that most of these G5s identified
    USA service personnel - and their holders were issued with 'normal'
    callsigns instead. I think that many G5+3s have been re-issued (in the
    past 10 years?), and certainly those that were never issued have, for
    some time, been available to new licensees on request.

    However, after further reading, I've found a few other 'special' G plus 3-letter callsigns with other numbers were also issued in the late 30s.
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to Brian on Fri Mar 1 23:08:03 2024
    In message <ursn18$18v9v$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <[email protected]>, Ian Jackson
    <[email protected]> writes
    In message <[email protected]>, Brian Howie
    <[email protected]> writes
    In message <urph5u$eh4t$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes >>>>> Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <urmr0q$3oma7$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes >>>>>>





    As I recall, there was a period when licences to those in Scotland >>>>>>> etc were
    issued without the M ( or W for Wales), whereas previously and
    later it was
    included.

    For many tears haven't ALL UK callsigns been listed without the
    secondary locator? Doesn't (say) a GM operating abroad under CEPT have >>>>>> to drop the Scottish bit, and simply use the G? Presumably they will >>>>>> have to now?


    Interesting question.

    Not that I know the answer.

    I doubt anyone considered that. It is probably a CEPT level question or >>>>> even local country, eg France may expect F/ GM3ABC but another >>>>>country just
    ?/G3ABC

    The identifiers were a UK ‘thing’. It is possible, officially, other >>>>> licensing authorities aren’t aware of them / don’t acknowledge them. >>>>>
    Other countries use / used different methods to allocate callsigns by >>>>> region, where it was / is done. The US stopped doing it. I think >>>>>France has
    a scheme, although more for former colonies etc than regions of mainland >>>>> France.

    I’ve no strong feelings on the topic. I can understand those who >>>>>have a GM,
    MW etc and perhaps have QSL cards, are Contest operators, etc being irked.


    I am concerned about some of the other changes.


    Jack Hum's callbook from the 1930s shows no distinction between
    England, Scotland, Wales, NI etc. In fact the G prefix didn't exist.
    There's an appended call book listing showing the G prefix , but not
    GM , but there are GIs.

    https://www.dokufunk.org/upload/g_callbook_20-34.pdf

    It looks like we've reverted to post WW2 . I've no idea when GM, GW
    etc were introduced. Late 40s early 50s?

    Well, it's not immediately obvious when the change occurred. In the
    monthly regional reports, in January 1935 there's

    "Northern Ireland.
    GI appears to be recovering from the festive
    season, as an atmosphere of quiet prevails!"

    (but no GI callsigns mentioned). But even at the end of 1935 the
    Scottish 2-letter calls are still simply G, and the 2 and 3 +3-letter
    calls still have no primary locator at all. By Dec 1935, GI's seem to
    be regularly using GI (possibly because EI was already using EI?).

    Further to my previous ramblings, I have found that in the regional
    reports in the March 1937 issue of the T&R Bulletin, GMs are reported as
    having been granted the M in GM. There is a reference to "this
    privilege" being allowed this before, but it having been removed. All
    the radiating callsigns in the regional report for Scotland are GMs.

    Wales followed later (reported in August 1937) by being granted the W in
    GW.

    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of some
    G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these were
    experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    I knew G2MI many years ago. I recall him relating how the rules not only >changed to and fro but were ‘flexible’. In theory, holders of artificial >aerial licences were very limited but still managed to make contacts which >defied the supposed design of their stations.

    He always finished these stories with a chuckle or a wink.

    Yes - it was said that it was amazing how far a leaky 'artificial
    aerial' (dummy load) might accidentally get you!

    Further reading reveals that even before the war was over, the RSGB were pressing the GPO to allow those with Full (sic) licences to resume, as
    soon as practicable, operation with their original callsigns.
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Woolley@21:1/5 to Jeff on Sat Mar 2 12:09:41 2024
    On 01/03/2024 10:20, Jeff wrote:

    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of
    some G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these
    were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign nationals.

    There was (maybe is) an experimental licence class, with a G prefix, but
    that was G9, and it was for commercial development, not amateur use.

    <https://hamradio.org.uk/uk-amateur-radio-call-signs/> although I've
    been aware of their existence for decades.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Woolley@21:1/5 to Brian on Sat Mar 2 12:03:17 2024
    On 29/02/2024 15:20, Brian wrote:
    I seem to recall the pre WW2 licences were ‘Artificial Aerial Licences’ and
    didn’t even have a G prefix - at least officially.

    Artificial aerial (dummy load) licences were not the only pre-WW2
    licenses. They were a special one for building and testing but not
    operating.

    <https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/ham_radio/call-signs/uk-amateur-radio-callsigns.php>

    <https://www.g3lrs.org.uk/training/callsign-types.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Sat Mar 2 09:41:31 2024
    On 01/03/2024 22:58, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <ursa5j$168f1$[email protected]>, Jeff <[email protected]> writes

    Further to my previous ramblings, I have found that in the regional
    reports in the March 1937 issue of the T&R Bulletin, GMs are reported
    as  having been granted the M in GM. There is a reference to "this
    privilege" being allowed this before, but it having been removed. All
    the radiating callsigns in the regional report for Scotland are GMs.
     Wales followed later (reported in August 1937) by being granted the
    W in  GW.
     Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of
    some  G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these
    were  experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign nationals.

    But not until the middle 60s. These were later discontinued for reasons
    of security, because it was realised that most of these G5s identified
    USA service personnel - and their holders were issued with 'normal'
    callsigns instead. I think that many G5+3s have been re-issued  (in the
    past 10 years?), and certainly those that were never issued have, for
    some time, been available to new licensees on request.

    However, after further reading, I've found a few other 'special' G plus 3-letter callsigns with other numbers were also issued in the late 30s.

    The G9XXX series were non-amateur experimental call signs, not limited
    to use in amateur bands. They usually had spot frequencies allocated in
    the licence.

    I've operated under several G9 calls doing trials for various companies.

    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Mar 2 15:56:10 2024
    In message <urv4u6$1rsrq$[email protected]>, David Woolley <[email protected]d> writes
    On 01/03/2024 10:20, Jeff wrote:

    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of
    some G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these
    were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.
    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign
    nationals.

    There was (maybe is) an experimental licence class, with a G prefix,
    but that was G9, and it was for commercial development, not amateur use.

    <https://hamradio.org.uk/uk-amateur-radio-call-signs/> although I've
    been aware of their existence for decades.

    The first ITV transmitter on Beulah Hill, Croydon had the callsign
    G9AED.
    https://shorturl.at/giNT4

    I believe that all commercial and experimental transmissions
    (notionally) require(d) a licence and a callsign. I was definitely told
    that EMI (Hayes, Middlesex) held a licence for use when testing their TV transmitting aerials (and probably a lot more). Somewhere I read that
    the police used to have several M-prefix callsigns (in the days of
    'Calling all cars'?).

    As I've said, I think that the few 1930s Gn+3 amateur callsigns would
    have been for experimental work on 56MHz (including from aircraft).

    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mm0fmf@21:1/5 to David Woolley on Sat Mar 2 20:41:29 2024
    On 02/03/2024 12:09, David Woolley wrote:
    On 01/03/2024 10:20, Jeff wrote:

    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of
    some G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these
    were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign nationals.

    There was (maybe is) an experimental licence class, with a G prefix, but
    that was G9, and it was for commercial development, not amateur use.

    <https://hamradio.org.uk/uk-amateur-radio-call-signs/> although I've
    been aware of their existence for decades.



    Wasn't G9AEX used by ATV (or ABC) when testing before Midlands ITV
    started in 1955/56?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 3 10:08:26 2024
    . Somewhere I read that
    the police used to have several M-prefix callsigns (in the days of
    'Calling all cars'?).
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements



    Indeed all the police (and Fire) VHF main schemes had M2 callsigns,
    although in most cases the M2 was dropped as time went on.

    If you watch some of the old British crime films set in the early days
    of radio cars you will often hear them use the full M2 callsign, such as
    M2MP in London.

    A full list of the M2 calls can be found here: <http://www.ringbell.co.uk/ukwmo/Page246.htm>

    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff@21:1/5 to David Woolley on Sun Mar 3 09:56:35 2024
    On 02/03/2024 12:09, David Woolley wrote:
    On 01/03/2024 10:20, Jeff wrote:

    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of
    some G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these
    were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign nationals.

    There was (maybe is) an experimental licence class, with a G prefix, but
    that was G9, and it was for commercial development, not amateur use.

    <https://hamradio.org.uk/uk-amateur-radio-call-signs/> although I've
    been aware of their existence for decades.



    That web site is not entirely correct, G9 callsigns could pop up
    anywhere, including inside amateur bands.

    One of the spot frequencies allocated on one G9 licence that I was using
    was 70.25MHz, very close to the then 4m mobile calling frequency of
    70.26MHz! We did get a couple of reports of being off frequency and
    querying the strange callsign.

    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Sun Mar 3 11:09:46 2024
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <ursa5j$168f1$[email protected]>, Jeff <[email protected]> writes

    Further to my previous ramblings, I have found that in the regional
    reports in the March 1937 issue of the T&R Bulletin, GMs are reported
    as having been granted the M in GM. There is a reference to "this
    privilege" being allowed this before, but it having been removed. All
    the radiating callsigns in the regional report for Scotland are GMs.
    Wales followed later (reported in August 1937) by being granted the
    W in GW.
    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of
    some G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these
    were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign nationals.

    But not until the middle 60s. These were later discontinued for reasons
    of security, because it was realised that most of these G5s identified
    USA service personnel - and their holders were issued with 'normal'
    callsigns instead. I think that many G5+3s have been re-issued (in the
    past 10 years?), and certainly those that were never issued have, for
    some time, been available to new licensees on request.

    However, after further reading, I've found a few other 'special' G plus 3-letter callsigns with other numbers were also issued in the late 30s.

    I recall them being changed / reissued - a friend was a G5+3 he was a US citizen and retired USAF living here.

    He was given the option of either a new G0 immediately or waiting for one
    he wanted to ‘come around’ - at the time they didn’t issue out of sequence-
    which he did. He was a late G0D

    The G0 series were issued between 1986 and 1996.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to Jeff on Sun Mar 3 17:13:09 2024
    Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 01/03/2024 22:58, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <ursa5j$168f1$[email protected]>, Jeff <[email protected]> writes

    Further to my previous ramblings, I have found that in the regional
    reports in the March 1937 issue of the T&R Bulletin, GMs are reported
    as  having been granted the M in GM. There is a reference to "this
    privilege" being allowed this before, but it having been removed. All
    the radiating callsigns in the regional report for Scotland are GMs.
     Wales followed later (reported in August 1937) by being granted the
    W in  GW.
     Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of
    some  G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these >>>> were  experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign nationals. >>>
    But not until the middle 60s. These were later discontinued for reasons
    of security, because it was realised that most of these G5s identified
    USA service personnel - and their holders were issued with 'normal'
    callsigns instead. I think that many G5+3s have been re-issued  (in the
    past 10 years?), and certainly those that were never issued have, for
    some time, been available to new licensees on request.

    However, after further reading, I've found a few other 'special' G plus
    3-letter callsigns with other numbers were also issued in the late 30s.

    The G9XXX series were non-amateur experimental call signs, not limited
    to use in amateur bands. They usually had spot frequencies allocated in
    the licence.

    I've operated under several G9 calls doing trials for various companies.

    Not quite on-topic, but out of interest…

    When P-Popsie pulled up after its bombing run and the results of the strike were seen, it sent the following message back to base, in CW of course:

    9SYV P GONER GONER AR

    In the film the sequence was reversed, with the chap reading the CW saying “Goner…P Popsie…that is all”.

    Historical note: ‘Popsie’ was the appreciative term applied to pretty young ladies.

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to Brian on Sun Mar 3 13:47:17 2024
    In message <us1lpq$2f9dn$[email protected]>, Brian <[email protected]> writes
    Ian Jackson <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <ursa5j$168f1$[email protected]>, Jeff <[email protected]> writes

    Further to my previous ramblings, I have found that in the regional
    reports in the March 1937 issue of the T&R Bulletin, GMs are reported
    as having been granted the M in GM. There is a reference to "this
    privilege" being allowed this before, but it having been removed. All
    the radiating callsigns in the regional report for Scotland are GMs.
    Wales followed later (reported in August 1937) by being granted the
    W in GW.
    Just glancing through the pages, I notice the occasional mention of
    some G5xxx callsigns. Without further research, I suspect that these
    were experimental callsigns for the 56MHz band.

    Certainly post war G5XXX were reciprocal licences for foreign nationals. >>>
    But not until the middle 60s. These were later discontinued for reasons
    of security, because it was realised that most of these G5s identified
    USA service personnel - and their holders were issued with 'normal'
    callsigns instead. I think that many G5+3s have been re-issued (in the
    past 10 years?), and certainly those that were never issued have, for
    some time, been available to new licensees on request.

    However, after further reading, I've found a few other 'special' G plus
    3-letter callsigns with other numbers were also issued in the late 30s.

    I recall them being changed / reissued - a friend was a G5+3 he was a US >citizen and retired USAF living here.

    He was given the option of either a new G0 immediately or waiting for one
    he wanted to ‘come around’ - at the time they didn’t issue out of >sequence-
    which he did. He was a late G0D

    The G0 series were issued between 1986 and 1996.

    I've been having a look at some of the Short Wave Magazines pertaining
    to just before and after WW2. They seem to be a bit more informative
    than the RSGB T&R Bulletin / RSGB Bulletin about the regaining of the
    pre-war callsigns and re-access to the amateur bands. Although mid 30s
    GnXXX callsigns (presumably 'specials') are certainly mentioned in the
    T&R and the Bull, I haven't seen any sign of them just pre-war. Any
    reference to 56MHz only mentions normal G (or GM or GW) format plus two letters. I guess someone decided that specials weren't needed any more.
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

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  • From Jeff@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 4 08:30:06 2024
    However, after further reading, I've found a few other 'special' G plus
    3-letter callsigns with other numbers were also issued in the late 30s.

    The G9XXX series were non-amateur experimental call signs, not limited
    to use in amateur bands. They usually had spot frequencies allocated in
    the licence.

    I've operated under several G9 calls doing trials for various companies.

    Not quite on-topic, but out of interest…

    When P-Popsie pulled up after its bombing run and the results of the strike were seen, it sent the following message back to base, in CW of course:

    9SYV P GONER GONER AR

    In the film the sequence was reversed, with the chap reading the CW saying “Goner…P Popsie…that is all”.

    Historical note: ‘Popsie’ was the appreciative term applied to pretty young
    ladies.


    Also in versions of the film where the name of Gibson's dog have been overdubbed with a more acceptable name the morse message sent for the successful breach of the dam still includes the N word.

    Jeff

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to Jeff on Mon Mar 4 11:56:00 2024
    Jeff <[email protected]> wrote:
    However, after further reading, I've found a few other 'special' G plus >>>> 3-letter callsigns with other numbers were also issued in the late 30s. >>>
    The G9XXX series were non-amateur experimental call signs, not limited
    to use in amateur bands. They usually had spot frequencies allocated in
    the licence.

    I've operated under several G9 calls doing trials for various companies.

    Not quite on-topic, but out of interest…

    When P-Popsie pulled up after its bombing run and the results of the strike >> were seen, it sent the following message back to base, in CW of course:

    9SYV P GONER GONER AR

    In the film the sequence was reversed, with the chap reading the CW saying >> “Goner…P Popsie…that is all”.

    Historical note: ‘Popsie’ was the appreciative term applied to pretty young
    ladies.


    Also in versions of the film where the name of Gibson's dog have been overdubbed with a more acceptable name the morse message sent for the successful breach of the dam still includes the N word.

    If Gibson’s dog hadn’t been killed on the morning of the raid, one wonders what the code name for a successful breach might have been.

    It’s interesting that the squadron callsign seems to have been one prefixed by 9 with a three-letter suffix, the individual aircraft letter being sent after a word space.

    There seems to be a difference of opinion as to whether it should be
    spelled Popsie or Popsy.

    A handful of Amateurs were issued with G9+2 calls before the end of the
    war, the idea being to try and extract Intel from German Amateurs. Unfortunately, there weren’t any of the latter active, so the idea failed, but the Brits managed to work each other, at least.

    --
    Spike

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