• MW1CFN gone loopy

    From A. non Eyemouse@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 27 18:04:23 2022
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html

    Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the
    money though.

    --
    Mouse.
    Where Morse meets House.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim gm4dhj ...@21:1/5 to A. non Eyemouse on Tue Dec 27 18:56:28 2022
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html

    Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the
    money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Dec 27 22:39:27 2022
    In message <toff4t$3ml13$[email protected]>, Jim gm4dhj ... <[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html
    Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the
    money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    You're talking bollocks, Jim. In any properly balanced aerial system
    twin feeder doesn't radiate. Mind you, that doesn't apply to a G5RV
    where the 'other' bit of the feeder (the bit that should be 75 ohm twin)
    is coax. Where it is, both the coax and the 300 ohm twin will radiate.
    [IIRC, the original G5RV was 300 twin all the way to the shack, where it
    fed via a balanced output ATU.]
    --
    Ian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jim.gm4dhj@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 28 09:14:54 2022
    On 28/12/2022 09:13, jim.gm4dhj wrote:
    On 27/12/2022 22:39, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <toff4t$3ml13$[email protected]>, Jim gm4dhj ...
    <[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html >>>>  Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the
    money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    You're talking bollocks, Jim. In any properly balanced aerial system
    twin feeder doesn't radiate. Mind you, that doesn't apply to a G5RV
    where the 'other' bit of the feeder (the bit that should be 75 ohm
    twin) is coax. Where it is, both the coax and the 300 ohm twin will
    radiate. [IIRC, the original G5RV was 300 twin all the way to the
    shack, where it fed via a balanced output ATU.]
    that is what I said !
    kind of

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jim.gm4dhj@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Wed Dec 28 09:13:56 2022
    On 27/12/2022 22:39, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <toff4t$3ml13$[email protected]>, Jim gm4dhj ... <[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html
     Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the
    money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    You're talking bollocks, Jim. In any properly balanced aerial system
    twin feeder doesn't radiate. Mind you, that doesn't apply to a G5RV
    where the 'other' bit of the feeder (the bit that should be 75 ohm twin)
    is coax. Where it is, both the coax and the 300 ohm twin will radiate.
    [IIRC, the original G5RV was 300 twin all the way to the shack, where it
    fed via a balanced output ATU.]
    that is what I said !

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Dec 28 10:58:18 2022
    In message <toh1ck$3u2r1$[email protected]>, jim.gm4dhj <[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 22:39, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <toff4t$3ml13$[email protected]>, Jim gm4dhj ... >><[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html >>>> �Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to >>>>re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the >>>>money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    You're talking bollocks, Jim. In any properly balanced aerial system
    twin feeder doesn't radiate. Mind you, that doesn't apply to a G5RV
    where the 'other' bit of the feeder (the bit that should be 75 ohm
    twin) is coax. Where it is, both the coax and the 300 ohm twin will >>radiate. [IIRC, the original G5RV was 300 twin all the way to the
    shack, where it fed via a balanced output ATU.]
    that is what I said !

    Sorry, but you were mumbling, and I was having great difficulty deciding
    which side of the fence you were on. Next time, you'll need to make it
    much clearer about what you're burbling on about.
    --
    Ian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jim.gm4dhj@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Wed Dec 28 11:52:28 2022
    On 28/12/2022 10:58, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <toh1ck$3u2r1$[email protected]>, jim.gm4dhj <[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 22:39, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <toff4t$3ml13$[email protected]>, Jim gm4dhj ...
    <[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html >>>>>  Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth
    the money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    You're talking bollocks, Jim. In any properly balanced aerial system
    twin feeder doesn't radiate. Mind you, that doesn't apply to a G5RV
    where the 'other' bit of the feeder (the bit that should be 75 ohm
    twin)  is coax. Where it is, both the coax and the 300 ohm twin will
    radiate.  [IIRC, the original G5RV was 300 twin all the way to the
    shack, where it  fed via a balanced output ATU.]
    that is what I said !

    Sorry, but you were mumbling, and I was having great difficulty deciding which side of the fence you were on. Next time, you'll need to make it
    much clearer about what you're burbling on about.
    oh right

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From brian@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Dec 28 13:55:42 2022
    In message <$$[email protected]>, Ian Jackson <[email protected]> writes
    In message <toff4t$3ml13$[email protected]>, Jim gm4dhj ... ><[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html
    Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to >>>re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the >>>money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    You're talking bollocks, Jim. In any properly balanced aerial system
    twin feeder doesn't radiate. Mind you, that doesn't apply to a G5RV
    where the 'other' bit of the feeder (the bit that should be 75 ohm
    twin) is coax. Where it is, both the coax and the 300 ohm twin will
    radiate. [IIRC, the original G5RV was 300 twin all the way to the
    shack, where it fed via a balanced output ATU.]

    I had to look at twin line feeder radiation recently. I'm making a
    432MHz co-linear array of 8 x 2 eles fed by 450ohm twin feeder phasing
    sections and thought that I might have a problem . The dipoles are
    folded to give 200ohm, hence I've a missmatch.

    I did some research and came up with.

    Radiation from transmission lines PART I

    Https://arxiv.org/pdf/1701.04878.pdf
    and
    Radiation from transmission lines PART II

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1805.00803.pdf

    Full of the usual heavy marfs, but it does have a useable formula in
    Part I, viz equation 21 for a mis-matched transmission line (which mine
    is 200ohm into 450ohm)

    Applying it to my problem resulted in a radiation loss of 0.7% . It's
    lower for 300ohm line, but the velocity factor gives me grief.

    So balanced transmission lines do radiate ( and pick up) but not very
    much ; It's about -45dB at 28MHz for 450ohm line - it depends on the
    missmatch too.

    I also found that the radiation loss is independent of line length ,
    which I found odd.

    Brian

    --
    Brian Howie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Morrison@21:1/5 to brian on Wed Dec 28 16:53:10 2022
    On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 13:55:42 +0000
    brian <[email protected]> wrote:

    So balanced transmission lines do radiate ( and pick up) but not very
    much ; It's about -45dB at 28MHz for 450ohm line - it depends on the missmatch too.

    Yes, essentially because the two balanced lines are not co-located and
    so see a slightly different RF environment. That's why twisted pairs do
    another 10-15dB better for isolation.

    --

    Brian Morrison

    "I am not young enough to know everything"
    Oscar Wilde

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bernie@21:1/5 to brian on Thu Dec 29 09:24:48 2022
    On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 13:55:42 +0000
    brian <[email protected]> wrote:

    In message <$$[email protected]>, Ian Jackson <[email protected]> writes
    In message <toff4t$3ml13$[email protected]>, Jim gm4dhj ... ><[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html >>> Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to >>>re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth
    the money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    You're talking bollocks, Jim. In any properly balanced aerial system
    twin feeder doesn't radiate. Mind you, that doesn't apply to a G5RV
    where the 'other' bit of the feeder (the bit that should be 75 ohm
    twin) is coax. Where it is, both the coax and the 300 ohm twin will >radiate. [IIRC, the original G5RV was 300 twin all the way to the
    shack, where it fed via a balanced output ATU.]

    I had to look at twin line feeder radiation recently. I'm making a
    432MHz co-linear array of 8 x 2 eles fed by 450ohm twin feeder
    phasing sections and thought that I might have a problem . The
    dipoles are folded to give 200ohm, hence I've a missmatch.


    What sort of waves are you hoping to launch with that, Bri?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bernie@21:1/5 to A. non Eyemouse on Thu Dec 29 09:23:59 2022
    On Tue, 27 Dec 2022 18:04:23 +0000
    "A. non Eyemouse" <[email protected]d> wrote:

    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html

    Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the
    money though.


    And he seems to have freed us from the curse of the blogs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Hayter@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 29 12:40:05 2022
    On 27 Dec 2022 at 18:04:23 GMT, ""A. non Eyemouse"" <[email protected]d> wrote:

    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html

    Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the
    money though.

    Is it not a bit distasteful to imitate the name of the established firm in the field?


    --
    Roger Hayter

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From A. non Eyemouse@21:1/5 to Roger Hayter on Thu Dec 29 20:08:38 2022
    On 29/12/2022 12:40, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 27 Dec 2022 at 18:04:23 GMT, ""A. non Eyemouse"" <[email protected]d> wrote:

    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html

    Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth the
    money though.

    Is it not a bit distasteful to imitate the name of the established firm in the
    field?



    To paraphrase the late Cupid Stunt - It was all done in the best
    possible taste.

    --
    Mouse.
    Where Morse meets House.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From brian@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Dec 30 13:16:01 2022
    In message <[email protected]>, Bernie
    <[email protected]> writes
    On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 13:55:42 +0000
    brian <[email protected]> wrote:

    In message <$$[email protected]>, Ian Jackson
    <[email protected]> writes
    In message <toff4t$3ml13$[email protected]>, Jim gm4dhj ...
    <[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html >> >>> Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth
    the money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    You're talking bollocks, Jim. In any properly balanced aerial system
    twin feeder doesn't radiate. Mind you, that doesn't apply to a G5RV
    where the 'other' bit of the feeder (the bit that should be 75 ohm
    twin) is coax. Where it is, both the coax and the 300 ohm twin will
    radiate. [IIRC, the original G5RV was 300 twin all the way to the
    shack, where it fed via a balanced output ATU.]

    I had to look at twin line feeder radiation recently. I'm making a
    432MHz co-linear array of 8 x 2 eles fed by 450ohm twin feeder
    phasing sections and thought that I might have a problem . The
    dipoles are folded to give 200ohm, hence I've a missmatch.


    What sort of waves are you hoping to launch with that, Bri?


    Horizontal . It's a scaled version of this one. Https://www.qsl.net/df3lp/projects/8x2e144/index.html. I'm using
    galvanised fence wire instead of stainless steel.

    I play contesting at a high spot near Stranraer , and realise almost all
    my signals come from a pretty broad arc to the SE. An antenna that
    covers that arc seems useful. I can extend it to 10 x2 if it works.

    I'm making one of the 2 eles to make sure it works before doing the
    rest.

    Brian GM4DIJ

    --
    Brian Howie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From A. non Eyemouse@21:1/5 to brian on Fri Dec 30 19:36:10 2022
    On 30/12/2022 13:16, brian wrote:
    In message <[email protected]>, Bernie <[email protected]> writes
    On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 13:55:42 +0000
    brian <[email protected]> wrote:

    In message <$$[email protected]>, Ian Jackson
    <[email protected]> writes
    In message <toff4t$3ml13$[email protected]>, Jim gm4dhj ...
    <[email protected]> writes
    On 27/12/2022 18:04, A. non Eyemouse wrote:

    https://mw1cfnradio.blogspot.com/2022/12/all-is-not-well-and-good.html
      Actually he's making his point about YouTube stars attempting to
    re-write history and the laws of physics. WellGood loop is worth
    the money though.

    been saying that for years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKt6XAWs2U&t=20s&ab_channel=gm4dhj

    You're talking bollocks, Jim. In any properly balanced aerial system
    twin feeder doesn't radiate. Mind you, that doesn't apply to a G5RV
    where the 'other' bit of the feeder (the bit that should be 75 ohm
    twin) is coax. Where it is, both the coax and the 300 ohm twin will
    radiate. [IIRC, the original G5RV was 300 twin all the way to the
    shack, where it fed via a balanced output ATU.]

    I had to look at twin line feeder radiation recently. I'm making a
    432MHz co-linear array of 8 x 2 eles fed by 450ohm twin feeder
    phasing sections and thought that I might have a problem . The
    dipoles are folded to give 200ohm, hence I've a missmatch.


    What sort of waves are you hoping to launch with that, Bri?


    Horizontal . It's a scaled version of this one. Https://www.qsl.net/df3lp/projects/8x2e144/index.html. I'm using
    galvanised fence wire instead of stainless steel.

    I play contesting at a high spot near Stranraer , and realise almost all
    my signals come from a pretty broad arc to the SE. An antenna that
    covers that arc seems useful.  I can extend it to 10 x2 if it works.

    I'm making one of the 2 eles to make sure it works before doing the rest.

    Brian GM4DIJ


    You'll probably remember the late G8BHH used to run a colinear array as GW8BHH/P back in the 70's/80's.

    --
    Mouse.
    Where Morse meets House.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Morrison@21:1/5 to A. non Eyemouse on Fri Dec 30 20:38:45 2022
    On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 19:36:10 +0000
    "A. non Eyemouse" <[email protected]d> wrote:

    You'll probably remember the late G8BHH used to run a colinear array
    as GW8BHH/P back in the 70's/80's.

    Oh yes, they were frequently a very big signal.

    --

    Brian Morrison

    "I am not young enough to know everything"
    Oscar Wilde

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)