a) "we would ask if this were the case" - but it's not a question.
b) flowery language aside, I presume that regardless of the council
responding or not, in the scale of things there is ***k all that anyone
can do.

The FOI request was to ask how the council was discharging it's
obligations to disabled residents affected by the bin strikes. Now the
whole city knows the answer is "nothing". Which they could have stated by return of electrons - no matter how long they leave it, they won't change
the answer.



Dear Mr Jethro_uk,

Freedom of Information Act 2000

We write regarding your information request IR - xxxxxxxx

Whilst we strive to respond in a timely manner to all the information
requests we receive, sometimes this is not always possible, and we want
to let you know there may be a delay with your request.

We would ask if this were the case, and we are unable to meet the
deadline of 2 May 2025 then please bear with us, and we thank you in
advance for your patience.

Yours sincerely


Information Governance Team
City Operations Directorate
Birmingham City Council

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On 13:22 1 May 2025, Jethro_uk said:

a) "we would ask if this were the case" - but it's not a question.

b) flowery language aside, I presume that regardless of the council responding or not, in the scale of things there is ***k all that
anyone can do.

The FOI request was to ask how the council was discharging it's
obligations to disabled residents affected by the bin strikes. Now
the whole city knows the answer is "nothing". Which they could have
stated by return of electrons - no matter how long they leave it,
they won't change the answer.

----

Dear Mr Jethro_uk,

Freedom of Information Act 2000

We write regarding your information request IR - xxxxxxxx

Whilst we strive to respond in a timely manner to all the information requests we receive, sometimes this is not always possible, and we
want to let you know there may be a delay with your request.

We would ask if this were the case, and we are unable to meet the
deadline of 2 May 2025 then please bear with us, and we thank you in
advance for your patience.

Yours sincerely
Information Governance Team
City Operations Directorate
Birmingham City Council

My own experience is that such delays are almost routine, even though
the Information Commissioner's Office web site says:

"You should regard the 20-working-day limit as a 'long stop', in
other words the latest possible date on which you may issue a
response."

https://shorturl.at/IdVle

Ideally the FOI request should ask for specific data held by the
council, rather than ask for a statement on what the council is doing.

By the way, there are some public requests and responses about the
Birmingham strike on the "What Do They Know" site:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/birmingham_city_council

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On Thu, 01 May 2025 14:19:45 +0100, Pamela wrote:

Ideally the FOI request should ask for specific data held by the
council,
rather than ask for a statement on what the council is doing.

The specific data is their planning on how their decisions to mitigate
the bin strike by providing facilities at their recycling depots took
into account the needs of residents who are unable to physically access
them.

Obviously the answer is "they weren't". So I don't know why that could
not have been provided by return of email, rather than being stretched
out over an epoch.

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On 2 May 2025 at 00:29:15 BST, "Jethro_uk" <[email protected]> wrote:

On Thu, 01 May 2025 14:19:45 +0100, Pamela wrote:

Ideally the FOI request should ask for specific data held by the
council,
rather than ask for a statement on what the council is doing.

The specific data is their planning on how their decisions to mitigate
the bin strike by providing facilities at their recycling depots took
into account the needs of residents who are unable to physically access
them.

Obviously the answer is "they weren't". So I don't know why that could
not have been provided by return of email, rather than being stretched
out over an epoch.

They could have done an impact assessment, taken into account the needs of disabled residents, and decided that they were unable to meet them. Though if so they should prove it.

--

Roger Hayter

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On Thu, 1 May 2025 23:29:15 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote...

On Thu, 01 May 2025 14:19:45 +0100, Pamela wrote:

Ideally the FOI request should ask for specific data held by the
council,
rather than ask for a statement on what the council is doing.

The specific data is their planning on how their decisions to mitigate
the bin strike by providing facilities at their recycling depots took
into account the needs of residents who are unable to physically access
them.

Obviously the answer is "they weren't". So I don't know why that could
not have been provided by return of email, rather than being stretched
out over an epoch.

Perhaps the answer might be "we did take the needs of disabled residents
into account, and considered doing X,Y or Z, but concluded that none of
these were practical for reasons A,B and C"?

(Or of course you might be right, they weren't considered, but it needs referring up through several levels of management until it gets to
someone with high enough authority to admit it. And no-one is keen to
do so.)

--
Tim Jackson
[email protected]d
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)

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On Thu, 1 May 2025 23:29:15 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
<[email protected]> wrote:

Obviously the answer is "they weren't". So I don't know why that could
not have been provided by return of email, rather than being stretched
out over an epoch.

Because the people dealing with the FoI request are not the people
holding the information you sought.

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On 10:57 2 May 2025, Roger Hayter said:

On 2 May 2025 at 00:29:15 BST, "Jethro_uk" <[email protected]>
wrote:

On Thu, 01 May 2025 14:19:45 +0100, Pamela wrote:

Ideally the FOI request should ask for specific data held by the
council, rather than ask for a statement on what the council is
doing.

The specific data is their planning on how their decisions to
mitigate the bin strike by providing facilities at their recycling
depots took into account the needs of residents who are unable to
physically access them.

Obviously the answer is "they weren't". So I don't know why that
could not have been provided by return of email, rather than being
stretched out over an epoch.

They could have done an impact assessment, taken into account the
needs of disabled residents, and decided that they were unable to
meet them. Though if so they should prove it.

When someone else asked about the financial cost of the strike,
Birmingham Council said they were ... "withholding that information
since we consider that this information is politically sensitive at
this stage". See this link.

<https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cost_of_strike_up_to_current_dat/r esponse/3000787/attach/html/2/Response%20information%20exempt.pdf.html>

or https://shorturl.at/uOIP7

I am not sure such a disclosure exemption as "politically sensitive"
exists. I recall a tribunal saying that FOI data does not have regard
to how embarassing the info might be.

On the other hand, there is a "public interest test" to determine
whether info should be released.

The impact assessment you mention shouldn't fall foul of any exemption.

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On Fri, 02 May 2025 19:35:28 +0100, Pamela wrote:

On 10:57 2 May 2025, Roger Hayter said:

[quoted text muted]

When someone else asked about the financial cost of the strike,
Birmingham Council said they were ... "withholding that information
since we consider that this information is politically sensitive at this stage". See this link.

They have no idea*. The accounting system is unable to produce reliable
(and more importantly verifiable) figures.

That's what happens when you buy cheap, I guess. Who would have thought
that £100 million was cheap ?

*And anyone who claims they do is a liar.

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On Sat, 03 May 2025 09:04:09 +0100, Martin Harran wrote:

On Thu, 1 May 2025 12:22:16 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
<[email protected]> wrote:

a) "we would ask if this were the case" - but it's not a question.

Just a fairly typical example of the poor grammar standards that are
common nowadays A primary school near me has a large notice outside
"Could all visitors report to reception."

If schools can't even get it right, what hope have we of maintaining a
decent standard?

The problem now is Jethros law. Which states the the observable presence
of one error axiomatically means there will be more that are not (yet) observed. And with 40 years under the belt, it's never proved wrong.

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