• 100% Hill

    From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 1 15:51:23 2025
    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it looked
    steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or have I misunderstood how
    the Americans do it?

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    You can't tell which way the train went by looking at the tracks

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Jeff Gaines on Tue Jul 1 16:58:39 2025
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep roads
    in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it
    looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Tue Jul 1 18:05:43 2025
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep
    roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it
    looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally

    --
    Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

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  • From NY@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Tue Jul 1 18:26:12 2025
    On 01/07/2025 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep
    roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it
    looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally


    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?

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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Tue Jul 1 18:40:05 2025
    On 01/07/2025 06:09 PM, Chris Green wrote:
    Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep roads in >> America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it looked
    steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or have I misunderstood how
    the Americans do it?

    I think 100% in 'hill parlance' is 45 degrees. It's what (used to be)
    also called "1 in 1", i.e. 1 unit along and one unit up.

    Would 100 feet along the rise take you as far along the road as 100 feet
    along the flat?

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Jeff Gaines on Tue Jul 1 18:09:18 2025
    Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or have I misunderstood how
    the Americans do it?

    I think 100% in 'hill parlance' is 45 degrees. It's what (used to be)
    also called "1 in 1", i.e. 1 unit along and one unit up.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Andy Bennett@21:1/5 to Jeff Gaines on Tue Jul 1 19:53:26 2025
    On 01/07/2025 16:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep roads
    in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it
    looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?


    The steepest road in the USA is Waipio Valley Road on the island of
    Hawaii. It features sections with grades approaching 45%, making it the steepest rural road in the United States.

    The steepest gradient road in the UK is Ffordd Pen Llech in Harlech,
    Wales, with a maximum gradient of 37.45%, according to Guinness World
    Records

    Hardknott Pass in the Lake District,has a maximum gradient of 33%

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to JNugent on Tue Jul 1 19:30:12 2025
    JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 06:09 PM, Chris Green wrote:
    Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep roads in >> America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it looked >> steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or have I misunderstood how
    the Americans do it?

    I think 100% in 'hill parlance' is 45 degrees. It's what (used to be)
    also called "1 in 1", i.e. 1 unit along and one unit up.

    Would 100 feet along the rise take you as far along the road as 100 feet along the flat?

    I guess that's the ambiguity. Is 'along' along the surface or
    horizontal distance along.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jul 1 21:08:12 2025
    NY <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep
    roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it
    looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally


    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?

    If it was hypotenuse, a 1 in 1 would be an equilateral triangle so a 60 degree slope. I don't think that's what is usually meant.

    For most non-vertiginous slopes the difference between base and hypotenuse isn't that significant, but it is when they get steep.

    Theo

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  • From Vir Campestris@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 1 21:47:19 2025
    On 01/07/2025 18:26, NY wrote:
    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?

    I've never been sure.
    But the steepest road I've ever been up was 1 in 3.

    If that's 1 up and 3 horizontal the hypotenuse is 3.16. The other way
    round is 2.83.

    Not enough difference to notice.

    Andy

    --
    Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
    Ghandi.

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  • From Joe@21:1/5 to Theo on Wed Jul 2 08:39:00 2025
    On 01 Jul 2025 21:08:12 +0100 (BST)
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

    NY <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about
    steep roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although
    it looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally


    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?

    If it was hypotenuse, a 1 in 1 would be an equilateral triangle so a
    60 degree slope. I don't think that's what is usually meant.

    For most non-vertiginous slopes the difference between base and
    hypotenuse isn't that significant, but it is when they get steep.


    Interesting, I've always understood it to be height risen per unit
    distance travelled. Many hills are curved, making actual horizontal
    distance tricky to measure, whereas distance travelled is easy.

    --
    Joe

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 2 08:58:06 2025
    On 01/07/2025 18:26, NY wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep
    roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it
    looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally


    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?

    It certainly was in the days of 'one in three' etc.
    The % thing may be different

    --
    “It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
    intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
    futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
    we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
    power-directed system of thought.”
    Sir Roger Scruton

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Theo on Wed Jul 2 09:02:10 2025
    On 01/07/2025 21:08, Theo wrote:
    NY <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep
    roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it
    looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally


    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?

    If it was hypotenuse, a 1 in 1 would be an equilateral triangle so a 60 degree
    slope. I don't think that's what is usually meant.

    It is my undertstanding that that was indeed the case back in the day

    What the % thing means is debatable,. It doesn't seem as steep as the
    tangent would specify,.


    For most non-vertiginous slopes the difference between base and hypotenuse isn't that significant, but it is when they get steep.

    Exactly,. these 33% and 45% hills would surely be unclimbable with a
    normal vehicle if it were a tangent

    Theo

    --
    “It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
    intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
    futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
    we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
    power-directed system of thought.”
    Sir Roger Scruton

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Joe on Wed Jul 2 09:24:15 2025
    On 02/07/2025 08:39, Joe wrote:
    On 01 Jul 2025 21:08:12 +0100 (BST)
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

    NY <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about
    steep roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although
    it looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally


    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?

    If it was hypotenuse, a 1 in 1 would be an equilateral triangle so a
    60 degree slope. I don't think that's what is usually meant.

    For most non-vertiginous slopes the difference between base and
    hypotenuse isn't that significant, but it is when they get steep.


    Interesting, I've always understood it to be height risen per unit
    distance travelled. Many hills are curved, making actual horizontal
    distance tricky to measure, whereas distance travelled is easy.


    In an attempt to clarify this I found this in wiki. Not always
    authoritative:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(slope)
    Which says it is the tangent that is used technically

    I am not sure that road builders would bother to convert from tape along
    the road to height difference...

    But yes, a 'one in one' slope is 45° not 90°. :-)

    Apologies



    --
    Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
    more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
    their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
    battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
    that they are dead.
    Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

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  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Jul 2 09:46:58 2025
    On 02/07/2025 09:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 08:39, Joe wrote:
    On 01 Jul 2025 21:08:12 +0100 (BST)
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

    NY <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about
    steep roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although
    it looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I >>>>>>> misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally


    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?

    If it was hypotenuse, a 1 in 1 would be an equilateral triangle so a
    60 degree slope. I don't think that's what is usually meant.

    For most non-vertiginous slopes the difference between base and
    hypotenuse isn't that significant, but it is when they get steep.


    Interesting, I've always understood it to be height risen per unit
    distance travelled. Many hills are curved, making actual horizontal
    distance tricky to measure, whereas distance travelled is easy.


    In an attempt to clarify this I found this in wiki. Not always
    authoritative:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(slope)
    Which says it is the tangent that is used technically

    I am not sure that road builders would bother to convert from tape along
    the road to height difference...

    But yes, a 'one in one' slope is 45° not 90°. :-)

    Apologies

    I was just about to post a reply quoting that wiki! If you look at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(slope)#Nomenclature>, at point 4
    it states:
    "as a ratio of one part rise to so many parts run. For example, a slope
    that has a rise of 5 feet for every 1000 feet of run would have a slope
    ratio of 1 in 200. (The word in is normally used rather than the
    mathematical ratio notation of e.g. 1:200.) This is generally the method
    used to describe railway grades in Australia and the UK. It is used for
    roads in Hong Kong, and was used for roads in the UK until the 1970s."

    So, in effect, it means sine rather than tangent - but it's one of the
    points that has no reference stated! It also doesn't make clear what
    happened after the 1970s.

    FWIW, I think that Joe's reply makes sense a lot more than a direct
    tangent or sine. It's why zigzag roads (and pedestrian paths up cliffs)
    exist. A line-of-sight tangent or sine is meaningless, but a 1 in 8
    slope over the full distance is clear.

    --
    Jeff

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Wed Jul 2 10:02:31 2025
    On 02/07/2025 09:46, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 09:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 08:39, Joe wrote:
    On 01 Jul 2025 21:08:12 +0100 (BST)
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

    NY <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:
    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about
    steep roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although >>>>>>>> it looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I >>>>>>>> misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc
    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally


    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?

    If it was hypotenuse, a 1 in 1 would be an equilateral triangle so a
    60 degree slope.  I don't think that's what is usually meant.

    For most non-vertiginous slopes the difference between base and
    hypotenuse isn't that significant, but it is when they get steep.


    Interesting, I've always understood it to be height risen per unit
    distance travelled. Many hills are curved, making actual horizontal
    distance tricky to measure, whereas distance travelled is easy.


    In an attempt to clarify this I found this in wiki. Not always
    authoritative:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(slope)
    Which says it is the tangent that is used technically

    I am not sure that road builders would bother to convert from tape along
    the road to height difference...

    But yes, a 'one in one' slope is 45° not 90°. :-)

    Apologies

    I was just about to post a reply quoting that wiki! If you look at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(slope)#Nomenclature>, at point 4
    it states:
    "as a ratio of one part rise to so many parts run. For example, a slope
    that has a rise of 5 feet for every 1000 feet of run would have a slope
    ratio of 1 in 200. (The word in is normally used rather than the
    mathematical ratio notation of e.g. 1:200.) This is generally the method
    used to describe railway grades in Australia and the UK. It is used for
    roads in Hong Kong, and was used for roads in the UK until the 1970s."

    So, in effect, it means sine rather than tangent - but it's one of the
    points that has no reference stated! It also doesn't make clear what
    happened after the 1970s.

    Well the wiki implies that the 'run' is the horizontal run. The problem
    is that at low angles sin(alpha)->tan(alpha) so it isn't worth making
    the distinction for e.g. run of drainage or railway purposes.

    But it does get to be important on roads. Where one in three is not
    unheard of

    FWIW, I think that Joe's reply makes sense a lot more than a direct
    tangent or sine. It's why zigzag roads (and pedestrian paths up cliffs) exist. A line-of-sight tangent or sine is meaningless, but a 1 in 8
    slope over the full distance is clear.

    Agreed. In the end it isn't that critical.

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues. Woe
    betide you if you missed a gear change...

    https://earth.google.com/web/@51.23103601,-0.46670278,178.94200534a,0d,60y,299.11148182h,80.7058441t,0r/data=CgRCAggBIhoKFkxtMHg4el9pVFhySldkZHI0OThQU1EQAjIpCicKJQohMXdPU1NHNklyNXQxLTJTNGpBT3pmSS01UFktSkZXdXZGIAE6AwoBMEICCABKCAi7mvu-BBAB

    It's not even marked with a gradient sign these days

    --
    “It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
    making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
    who pay no price for being wrong.”

    Thomas Sowell

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Wed Jul 2 10:43:19 2025
    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues. Woe
    betide you if you missed a gear change...

    https://earth.google.com/web/@51.23103601,-0.46670278,178.94200534a,0d,60y,299.11148182h,80.7058441t,0r/data=CgRCAggBIhoKFkxtMHg4el9pVFhySldkZHI0OThQU1EQAjIpCicKJQohMXdPU1NHNklyNXQxLTJTNGpBT3pmSS01UFktSkZXdXZGIAE6AwoBMEICCABKCAi7mvu-BBAB

    It's not even marked with a gradient sign these days

    It's many years since I've been on that bit of road! It's surprising
    just how many steep roads there are in Surrey. Not my favourite method
    of transport, but: <https://www.broleur.com/top-10-toughest-climbs-in-the-surrey-pyrenees/>

    Surrey spans the scarp slope of the North Downs - which that is as well
    as bits of the weald.

    I used to cycle down that and end up in Guildford...Wish I were that fit today...

    On one slope I overtook a van glanced in at his speedo and it said 35mph...

    --
    Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
    twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
    on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
    projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

    Richard Lindzen

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  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Jul 2 10:25:12 2025
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues. Woe betide you if you missed a gear change...

    https://earth.google.com/web/@51.23103601,-0.46670278,178.94200534a,0d,60y,299.11148182h,80.7058441t,0r/data=CgRCAggBIhoKFkxtMHg4el9pVFhySldkZHI0OThQU1EQAjIpCicKJQohMXdPU1NHNklyNXQxLTJTNGpBT3pmSS01UFktSkZXdXZGIAE6AwoBMEICCABKCAi7mvu-BBAB

    It's not even marked with a gradient sign these days

    It's many years since I've been on that bit of road! It's surprising
    just how many steep roads there are in Surrey. Not my favourite method
    of transport, but: <https://www.broleur.com/top-10-toughest-climbs-in-the-surrey-pyrenees/>

    --
    Jeff

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  • From Davey@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Jul 2 12:05:52 2025
    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 09:24:15 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 08:39, Joe wrote:
    On 01 Jul 2025 21:08:12 +0100 (BST)
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

    NY <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 18:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:58, Andy Burns wrote:
    Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about
    steep roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although
    it looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I >>>>>> misunderstood how the Americans do it?
    Rise over run, same as everyone else?

    so 100% = 45°, 50% = 22.5° etc

    Uk is rise over road length. Traditionally


    Is it? I always thought it was perpendicular over base, not
    perpendicular over hypotenuse. Have I been wrong all these years?


    If it was hypotenuse, a 1 in 1 would be an equilateral triangle so
    a 60 degree slope. I don't think that's what is usually meant.

    For most non-vertiginous slopes the difference between base and
    hypotenuse isn't that significant, but it is when they get steep.


    Interesting, I've always understood it to be height risen per unit
    distance travelled. Many hills are curved, making actual horizontal distance tricky to measure, whereas distance travelled is easy.


    In an attempt to clarify this I found this in wiki. Not always authoritative:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(slope)
    Which says it is the tangent that is used technically

    I am not sure that road builders would bother to convert from tape
    along the road to height difference...

    But yes, a 'one in one' slope is 45° not 90°. :-)

    Apologies




    Back in the days when The Alaska Highway was being built, there was a
    hill called 'Suicide Hill. I knew a guy who had been a truck driver
    after the war, and he described the warning signs as 'Engage Low Gear',
    and 'if you are not in Low Gear, Prepare to Meet Thy Maker'. https://www.explorenorth.com/alaska_highway/history/alaska_highway-suicide_hill.html
    I see no indication of the slope %.

    --
    Davey.

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  • From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Jul 2 10:45:02 2025
    On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 10:43:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues.
    Woe betide you if you missed a gear change...

    https://earth.google.com/web/@51.23103601,-0.46670278,178.94200534a, 0d,60y,299.11148182h,80.7058441t,0r/ data=CgRCAggBIhoKFkxtMHg4el9pVFhySldkZHI0OThQU1EQAjIpCicKJQohMXdPU1NHNklyNXQxLTJTNGpBT3pmSS01UFktSkZXdXZGIAE6AwoBMEICCABKCAi7mvu-
    BBAB

    It's not even marked with a gradient sign these days

    It's many years since I've been on that bit of road! It's surprising
    just how many steep roads there are in Surrey. Not my favourite method
    of transport, but:
    <https://www.broleur.com/top-10-toughest-climbs-in-the-surrey-pyrenees/


    Surrey spans the scarp slope of the North Downs - which that is as well
    as bits of the weald.

    I used to cycle down that and end up in Guildford...Wish I were that fit today...

    On one slope I overtook a van glanced in at his speedo and it said
    35mph...

    I wonder what the *real* safe top speed on a "regular" bike is.

    Whatever it is, 35mph seems over it.

    Quite apart from the fact that at that speed the brakes are merely a suggestion, just hitting the slightest bump in the road could throw the
    thing.

    Rather you than me, as they say. (Despite having done pretty similar in
    my youth :) )

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  • From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 2 11:39:35 2025
    Op 01/07/2025 om 16:51 schreef Jeff Gaines:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep roads
    in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it
    looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?


    Americans are built differently.

    --
    Ottavio Caruso

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 2 13:04:31 2025
    On 02/07/2025 11:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
    On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 10:43:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues.
    Woe betide you if you missed a gear change...

    https://earth.google.com/web/@51.23103601,-0.46670278,178.94200534a,
    0d,60y,299.11148182h,80.7058441t,0r/ data=CgRCAggBIhoKFkxtMHg4el9pVFhySldkZHI0OThQU1EQAjIpCicKJQohMXdPU1NHNklyNXQxLTJTNGpBT3pmSS01UFktSkZXdXZGIAE6AwoBMEICCABKCAi7mvu-
    BBAB

    It's not even marked with a gradient sign these days

    It's many years since I've been on that bit of road! It's surprising
    just how many steep roads there are in Surrey. Not my favourite method
    of transport, but:
    <https://www.broleur.com/top-10-toughest-climbs-in-the-surrey-pyrenees/


    Surrey spans the scarp slope of the North Downs - which that is as well
    as bits of the weald.

    I used to cycle down that and end up in Guildford...Wish I were that fit
    today...

    On one slope I overtook a van glanced in at his speedo and it said
    35mph...

    I wonder what the *real* safe top speed on a "regular" bike is.

    Whatever it is, 35mph seems over it.

    Quite apart from the fact that at that speed the brakes are merely a suggestion, just hitting the slightest bump in the road could throw the thing.

    Not unless you swerve.

    Bikes are very stable at speed. So long as you don't panic and try anbd
    do the impossible


    Rather you than me, as they say. (Despite having done pretty similar in
    my youth :) )

    I think most cyclists would be ok at 45mph. Maybe 50mph on a bike with
    decent brakes

    But obviously you don't do those speeds where tight bends are
    anticipated. Although in my case I did brake hard after overtaking for
    the bend and T junction at the end, which I took at about 25mph

    You really can get up to quite decent speeds on a halfway decent bike on
    a hill...


    --
    The New Left are the people they warned you about.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Wed Jul 2 13:32:00 2025
    On 02/07/2025 13:23, AnthonyL wrote:
    n my teens when my mate and I would often go 40 - 50 mile trips for trainspotting there was one fairly straight hill, not particularly
    steep but long. My mate had a speedometer on his bike (I only had one
    of those peg things that clocked up the mileometer). There was one
    occasion when there was zero traffic around and we belted down this
    hill as fast as our legs could keep up with the pedals and he told me
    his speedo read 50mph. It was hairy, no helmets in those days, fun
    but we didn't do it again.

    That strikes me as about spot on. 50mph is about as fast as you wanted
    to go ever on a push bike.

    30-40mph not unusual on a good hill.

    12-16 mph on the flat.

    --
    The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
    its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

    Anon.

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  • From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jul 2 12:23:01 2025
    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 13:04:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 11:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
    On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 10:43:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues. >>>>> Woe betide you if you missed a gear change...

    https://earth.google.com/web/@51.23103601,-0.46670278,178.94200534a,
    0d,60y,299.11148182h,80.7058441t,0r/
    data=CgRCAggBIhoKFkxtMHg4el9pVFhySldkZHI0OThQU1EQAjIpCicKJQohMXdPU1NHNklyNXQxLTJTNGpBT3pmSS01UFktSkZXdXZGIAE6AwoBMEICCABKCAi7mvu-
    BBAB

    It's not even marked with a gradient sign these days

    It's many years since I've been on that bit of road! It's surprising
    just how many steep roads there are in Surrey. Not my favourite method >>>> of transport, but:
    <https://www.broleur.com/top-10-toughest-climbs-in-the-surrey-pyrenees/ >>>

    Surrey spans the scarp slope of the North Downs - which that is as well
    as bits of the weald.

    I used to cycle down that and end up in Guildford...Wish I were that fit >>> today...

    On one slope I overtook a van glanced in at his speedo and it said
    35mph...

    I wonder what the *real* safe top speed on a "regular" bike is.

    Whatever it is, 35mph seems over it.

    Quite apart from the fact that at that speed the brakes are merely a
    suggestion, just hitting the slightest bump in the road could throw the
    thing.

    Not unless you swerve.

    Bikes are very stable at speed. So long as you don't panic and try anbd
    do the impossible


    Rather you than me, as they say. (Despite having done pretty similar in
    my youth :) )

    I think most cyclists would be ok at 45mph. Maybe 50mph on a bike with
    decent brakes

    But obviously you don't do those speeds where tight bends are
    anticipated. Although in my case I did brake hard after overtaking for
    the bend and T junction at the end, which I took at about 25mph

    You really can get up to quite decent speeds on a halfway decent bike on
    a hill...


    In my teens when my mate and I would often go 40 - 50 mile trips for trainspotting there was one fairly straight hill, not particularly
    steep but long. My mate had a speedometer on his bike (I only had one
    of those peg things that clocked up the mileometer). There was one
    occasion when there was zero traffic around and we belted down this
    hill as fast as our legs could keep up with the pedals and he told me
    his speedo read 50mph. It was hairy, no helmets in those days, fun
    but we didn't do it again.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timatmarford@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 2 14:46:19 2025
    On 02/07/2025 11:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
    On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 10:43:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues.
    Woe betide you if you missed a gear change...

    Ha ha! Attending secondary school involved two 1 mile walks and a bus
    ride:-(

    Cycling was much better although wet weather capes and icy roads were a drawback in Winter.

    Come Spring, the bike mudguards came off and the derailleur gears
    changed for a fixed 52 front and 12 tooth rear. I never measured actual
    road speeds but following the local bus in the rear suction zone was easy:-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Jul 2 15:17:37 2025
    On 02/07/2025 10:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues. Woe >>> betide you if you missed a gear change...

    https://earth.google.com/web/@51.23103601,-0.46670278,178.94200534a,0d,60y,299.11148182h,80.7058441t,0r/data=CgRCAggBIhoKFkxtMHg4el9pVFhySldkZHI0OThQU1EQAjIpCicKJQohMXdPU1NHNklyNXQxLTJTNGpBT3pmSS01UFktSkZXdXZGIAE6AwoBMEICCABKCAi7mvu-BBAB


    It's not even marked with a gradient sign these days

    It's many years since I've been on that bit of road! It's surprising
    just how many steep roads there are in Surrey. Not my favourite method
    of transport, but:
    <https://www.broleur.com/top-10-toughest-climbs-in-the-surrey-pyrenees/>

    Surrey spans the scarp slope of the North Downs - which that is as well
    as bits of the weald.

    I used to cycle down that and end up in Guildford...Wish I were that fit today...

    The Hog's Back?

    Or A25 east of Guildford?

    On one slope I overtook a van glanced in at his speedo and it said 35mph...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to JNugent on Wed Jul 2 18:32:28 2025
    On 02/07/2025 15:17, JNugent wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues.
    Woe
    betide you if you missed a gear change...

    https://earth.google.com/web/@51.23103601,-0.46670278,178.94200534a,0d,60y,299.11148182h,80.7058441t,0r/data=CgRCAggBIhoKFkxtMHg4el9pVFhySldkZHI0OThQU1EQAjIpCicKJQohMXdPU1NHNklyNXQxLTJTNGpBT3pmSS01UFktSkZXdXZGIAE6AwoBMEICCABKCAi7mvu-BBAB


    It's not even marked with a gradient sign these days

    It's many years since I've been on that bit of road! It's surprising
    just how many steep roads there are in Surrey. Not my favourite method
    of transport, but:
    <https://www.broleur.com/top-10-toughest-climbs-in-the-surrey-pyrenees/> >>>
    Surrey spans the scarp slope of the North Downs - which that is as well
    as bits of the weald.

    I used to cycle down that and end up in Guildford...Wish I were that fit
    today...

    The Hog's Back?

    Or A25 east of Guildford?

    well I didn't like the A25 so I crossed it and used the back roads to
    Guildford
    I'd come back along the A246 or retrace my steps. Depending how fit I felt.


    --
    “There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

    —Soren Kierkegaard

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  • From NY@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Jul 2 19:36:01 2025
    On 02/07/2025 18:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    It's many years since I've been on that bit of road! It's surprising
    just how many steep roads there are in Surrey. Not my favourite method >>>> of transport, but:
    <https://www.broleur.com/top-10-toughest-climbs-in-the-surrey-
    pyrenees/>

    Surrey spans the scarp slope of the North Downs - which that is as well
    as bits of the weald.

    I used to cycle down that and end up in Guildford...Wish I were that fit >>> today...

    The Hog's Back?

    Or A25 east of Guildford?

    well I didn't like the A25 so I crossed it and used the back roads to Guildford
    I'd come back along the A246 or retrace my steps. Depending how fit I felt.

    Yes I bet the hill from the Leatherhead-Dorking road up to Box Hill is
    nasty on a bike.

    There are a few killer hills near me in North Yorkshire: Rosedale
    Chimney Bank, a road out of Littlebeck towards Blue Bank, Blue Bank
    itself. 1:3 or 1:4. I met a cyclist coming down Rosedale Chimney as I
    was going up it, and he looked to be struggling to control the bike and
    nearly came off on one of the hairpin bends.

    Rosedale Chimney really sorts out the sheep from the goats in terms of
    car drivers. I was behind a car that ground to a halt. I was keeping
    well back as I always do, but this guy kept rolling further and further
    back with every attempt to do a hill-start, so eventually he used up the
    very generous safety space I'd left. I got out (leaving the car in first
    gear and the wheels turned so my car would roll into the bank if that
    didn't hold it!) and offered to drive his car to the top for him, since
    he was panicking. I was quite pleased that in a strange car with a
    petrol engine (I'm used to a diesel with more low-speed torque) and a
    clutch of unknown bite-point, I managed to set off on my second attempt
    - and even when I stalled the first time, I didn't roll back an inch
    because I know how to coordinate handbrake, clutch and accelerator.
    Setting off in my own car after that was a bit easier - I didn't need to
    race the engine as fast to generate enough torque to overcome gravity.

    It's tempting when I'm on my e-bike to see how it manages on a really
    steep hill - how much effort I have to put in myself in first gear to supplement the electric motor assistance.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Jul 3 15:08:03 2025
    On 02/07/2025 06:32 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 15:17, JNugent wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:43 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some
    issues. Woe
    betide you if you missed a gear change...

    https://earth.google.com/web/@51.23103601,-0.46670278,178.94200534a,0d,60y,299.11148182h,80.7058441t,0r/data=CgRCAggBIhoKFkxtMHg4el9pVFhySldkZHI0OThQU1EQAjIpCicKJQohMXdPU1NHNklyNXQxLTJTNGpBT3pmSS01UFktSkZXdXZGIAE6AwoBMEICCABKCAi7mvu-BBAB



    It's not even marked with a gradient sign these days

    It's many years since I've been on that bit of road! It's surprising
    just how many steep roads there are in Surrey. Not my favourite method >>>> of transport, but:
    <https://www.broleur.com/top-10-toughest-climbs-in-the-surrey-pyrenees/> >>>>

    Surrey spans the scarp slope of the North Downs - which that is as well
    as bits of the weald.

    I used to cycle down that and end up in Guildford...Wish I were that fit >>> today...

    The Hog's Back?

    Or A25 east of Guildford?

    well I didn't like the A25 so I crossed it and used the back roads to Guildford
    I'd come back along the A246 or retrace my steps. Depending how fit I felt.

    In the days when I frequently used to have to be at Aldershot by 09:15,
    using the M25 clockwise was always a gamble once you'd passed the M23. I
    too often used the A246 and regained A3 in the West Clandon area,
    heading for the Hog's Back with its 60 limit and police camera vans in
    lay-bys.

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  • From Peter Able@21:1/5 to Andy Bennett on Thu Jul 3 15:49:25 2025
    On 01/07/2025 19:53, Andy Bennett wrote:
    On 01/07/2025 16:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:

    A video popped up on my Facebook feed earlier talking about steep
    roads in America, they seem to measure in percentages.

    He said the steepest is 100% and showed an example and although it
    looked steep surely a 100% hill would be vertical or  have I
    misunderstood how the Americans do it?


    The steepest road in the USA is Waipio Valley Road on the island of
    Hawaii. It features sections with grades approaching 45%, making it the steepest rural road in the United States.

    The steepest gradient road in the UK is Ffordd Pen Llech in Harlech,
    Wales, with a maximum gradient of 37.45%, according to Guinness World
    Records

    Maybe, at just one point, but the steepest continuous road may be what
    is now called Treflys Street in Gerlan, Bethesda. A continuous 25% - end-to-end. At the top there's a vehicle-grounding acute left turn and
    at the bottom a re-re-re-repaired drystone wall - and then about a 50 ft
    drop.

    Alarming in the summer, unstoppable during most of the winter. I know,
    I used to live there... ;<}}

    --
    PA
    --

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  • From PeterC@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 3 17:53:01 2025
    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 19:36:01 +0100, NY wrote:

    There are a few killer hills near me in North Yorkshire: Rosedale
    Chimney Bank, a road out of Littlebeck towards Blue Bank, Blue Bank
    itself. 1:3 or 1:4. I met a cyclist coming down Rosedale Chimney as I
    was going up it, and he looked to be struggling to control the bike and nearly came off on one of the hairpin bends.

    I've cycled up Rosedale and my girlfriend did as well. Also Hard Knot from Wrynose Bottom (didn't manage the other side as the road was wet and I need
    to stand up to keep the front wheel down. A 26" frame makes for steep seat stays). Rode down to Robin Hood's Bay (caliper brakes that were used on
    mopeds in Holland) but not up - muscles cold after lunch and stil ~150 miles
    to go.
    Gave up riding up steep hills as broke lots of expensive components and high quality frames - more than 1 in 7 and walk.
    --
    Peter.
    The gods will stay away
    whilst religions hold sway

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 3 20:03:16 2025
    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 14:46:19 +0100, Timatmarford <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 11:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
    On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 10:43:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues. >>>>> Woe betide you if you missed a gear change...

    Ha ha! Attending secondary school involved two 1 mile walks and a bus
    ride:-(

    Cycling was much better although wet weather capes and icy roads were a >drawback in Winter.

    Come Spring, the bike mudguards came off and the derailleur gears
    changed for a fixed 52 front and 12 tooth rear. I never measured actual
    road speeds but following the local bus in the rear suction zone was easy:-)


    Smiley, you too. My Dad used to encourage the fixed, which was on the
    other end of the axle so just turn the wheel around but I don't think
    he would have approved of making use of the suction zone. I recall
    one bus driver stopping where there wasn't a stop and I presumed to
    tick me off but I went around the other side of the bus and then took
    a non-bus route for the rest of the way.

    Trolley buses were useless - away far too fast, fixed or derailler
    made no difference.

    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Timatmarford@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Thu Jul 3 21:41:30 2025
    On 03/07/2025 21:03, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 14:46:19 +0100, Timatmarford <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 11:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
    On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 10:43:19 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 02/07/2025 10:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 02/07/2025 10:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There is a bit of road that used to give the family car some issues. >>>>>> Woe betide you if you missed a gear change...

    Ha ha! Attending secondary school involved two 1 mile walks and a bus
    ride:-(

    Cycling was much better although wet weather capes and icy roads were a
    drawback in Winter.

    Come Spring, the bike mudguards came off and the derailleur gears
    changed for a fixed 52 front and 12 tooth rear. I never measured actual
    road speeds but following the local bus in the rear suction zone was easy:-) >>

    Smiley, you too. My Dad used to encourage the fixed, which was on the
    other end of the axle so just turn the wheel around but I don't think
    he would have approved of making use of the suction zone. I recall
    one bus driver stopping where there wasn't a stop and I presumed to
    tick me off but I went around the other side of the bus and then took
    a non-bus route for the rest of the way.

    Trolley buses were useless - away far too fast, fixed or derailler
    made no difference.

    No Trolley buses in West Herts.

    The 12 tooth gear required a stronger chain so the pedal ring had to be changed. Few bus stops on my way home so I doubt they saw me.

    5 punctures in one memorable week when highways re-surfaced our lane
    with crushed stone pebbles:-(


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