On 27/06/2025 11:24, Joe wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:14:39 +0100
David Paste <[email protected]> wrote:

Is there an "ideal" ratio of detergent (i.e. fairy liquid) to water
for optimum de-greasing? I learnt (albeit a long time in school) that
the detergent has hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts, so the detergent
encapsulates the grease within the water, ending up a sort of like a
hideous colloid.

I ask not because I am trying to be thrify with detergent, but rather
to maximise its effectiveness at, to take a random example, cleaning
grease and oil off bike chains and sprockets.

Secondly, do detergents foam as a function, or is it something added?
Are non-foaming detergents available, and if so do they have any
drawbacks in terms of effectiveness?

This bit at least I can answer: carpet-cleaning detergents for machines
are minimal foaming, because otherwise the way they are used would
generate mountains of the stuff. They seem to work, I don't know how
they compare with normal detergents, apart of course from being more expensive in domestic quantities.

This bit I do know, because my chemistry teacher used to work for Unilever. Pure detergent is colourless odourless and looks exactly like water and
does not foam.
His job was to make it syrupy, foamy, smelly and colourful. And to bulk
it out because the actual amount needed was minimal.

(With a PhD from Oxford, he felt his life was better served in teaching
us ruffians.)

I have found that a mixture of detergent and diesel or paraffin is an
excellent degreaser BTW. Ends up like Swarfega,

Thanks in advance.

(I do try to search for answers to my humdrum questions but the sheer
amount of crap out there is quite alarming these days. Thanks again.)

--
“when things get difficult you just have to lie”

― Jean Claud Jüncker

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On 27/06/2025 11:24, Joe wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:14:39 +0100

This bit at least I can answer: carpet-cleaning detergents for machines
are minimal foaming, because otherwise the way they are used would
generate mountains of the stuff. They seem to work, I don't know how
they compare with normal detergents, apart of course from being more expensive in domestic quantities.

The same with all washing machine detergents. The last thing you want is
foam. Try using Fairy Liquid dish washing liquid in a washing machine
and you will find it needs a dozen rinse cycles to remove the foam :)




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:14:39 +0100
David Paste <[email protected]> wrote:

Is there an "ideal" ratio of detergent (i.e. fairy liquid) to water
for optimum de-greasing? I learnt (albeit a long time in school) that
the detergent has hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts, so the detergent encapsulates the grease within the water, ending up a sort of like a
hideous colloid.

I ask not because I am trying to be thrify with detergent, but rather
to maximise its effectiveness at, to take a random example, cleaning
grease and oil off bike chains and sprockets.

Secondly, do detergents foam as a function, or is it something added?
Are non-foaming detergents available, and if so do they have any
drawbacks in terms of effectiveness?

This bit at least I can answer: carpet-cleaning detergents for machines
are minimal foaming, because otherwise the way they are used would
generate mountains of the stuff. They seem to work, I don't know how
they compare with normal detergents, apart of course from being more
expensive in domestic quantities.

Thanks in advance.

(I do try to search for answers to my humdrum questions but the sheer
amount of crap out there is quite alarming these days. Thanks again.)

--
Joe

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On 27/06/2025 11:14, David Paste wrote:

Is there an "ideal" ratio of detergent (i.e. fairy liquid) to water for optimum de-greasing? I learnt (albeit a long time in school) that the detergent has hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts, so the detergent encapsulates the grease within the water, ending up a sort of like a
hideous colloid.

I ask not because I am trying to be thrify with detergent, but rather to maximise its effectiveness at, to take a random example, cleaning grease
and oil off bike chains and sprockets.

Secondly, do detergents foam as a function, or is it something added?
Are non-foaming detergents available, and if so do they have any
drawbacks in terms of effectiveness?

Thanks in advance.

(I do try to search for answers to my humdrum questions but the sheer
amount of crap out there is quite alarming these days. Thanks again.)

You probably need less than the typical squeeze people give the bottle.
The size of the whole in the top is effective in controlling usage so
don't be surprised if the manufacturers make that hole much bigger than
it needs to be.

I remember an apocryphal story of a toothpaste manufacturer struggling
to increase sales. The tea-lady bringing tea and biscuits heard the
discussions and said "Make the hole bigger. People always cover one end
of the bristles to the other. If you make the hole bigger they'll still
squeeze out from one to the other but will use more toothpaste and you
will sell more."

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:14:39 +0100, David Paste <[email protected]>
wrote:

Is there an "ideal" ratio of detergent (i.e. fairy liquid) to water for >optimum de-greasing? I learnt (albeit a long time in school) that the >detergent has hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts, so the detergent >encapsulates the grease within the water, ending up a sort of like a
hideous colloid.

I ask not because I am trying to be thrify with detergent, but rather to >maximise its effectiveness at, to take a random example, cleaning grease
and oil off bike chains and sprockets.

Secondly, do detergents foam as a function, or is it something added?
Are non-foaming detergents available, and if so do they have any
drawbacks in terms of effectiveness?

Thanks in advance.

(I do try to search for answers to my humdrum questions but the sheer
amount of crap out there is quite alarming these days. Thanks again.)

My understanding is that detergents don't need to foam, but the
general population expects it so the mfrs add one. I helps the sales, apparently.

For general degreasing etc, I used to use Swarfega, a greenish gel,
but I gather it's been discontinued due to it causing dermatitis.
Jizer is a liquid degreaser with similar applications.

--

Chris

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On 27/06/2025 13:57, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:14:39 +0100, David Paste <[email protected]>
wrote:

Is there an "ideal" ratio of detergent (i.e. fairy liquid) to water for
optimum de-greasing? I learnt (albeit a long time in school) that the
detergent has hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts, so the detergent
encapsulates the grease within the water, ending up a sort of like a
hideous colloid.

I ask not because I am trying to be thrify with detergent, but rather to
maximise its effectiveness at, to take a random example, cleaning grease
and oil off bike chains and sprockets.

Secondly, do detergents foam as a function, or is it something added?
Are non-foaming detergents available, and if so do they have any
drawbacks in terms of effectiveness?

Thanks in advance.

(I do try to search for answers to my humdrum questions but the sheer
amount of crap out there is quite alarming these days. Thanks again.)

My understanding is that detergents don't need to foam, but the
general population expects it so the mfrs add one. I helps the sales, apparently.

For general degreasing etc, I used to use Swarfega, a greenish gel,
but I gather it's been discontinued due to it causing dermatitis.
Jizer is a liquid degreaser with similar applications.

The is an interesting YouTube guy called Usagi Electric (Japanese
for Rabbit) who gets really old computers working.

He seems to use something called "Super Green" (or similar)
for de-gunking cabinets and computer hardware.

I suspect it is a USA-only product though.

For degreasing bike chains, there are specialist products
designed for that purpose. Failing that I would just use
white spirit or even petrol to get worst of the muck off.

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

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On 27/06/2025 12:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/06/2025 11:24, Joe wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 11:14:39 +0100
David Paste <[email protected]> wrote:

Is there an "ideal" ratio of detergent (i.e. fairy liquid) to water
for optimum de-greasing? I learnt (albeit a long time in school) that
the detergent has hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts, so the detergent
encapsulates the grease within the water, ending up a sort of like a
hideous colloid.

I ask not because I am trying to be thrify with detergent, but rather
to maximise its effectiveness at, to take a random example, cleaning
grease and oil off bike chains and sprockets.

Secondly, do detergents foam as a function, or is it something added?
Are non-foaming detergents available, and if so do they have any
drawbacks in terms of effectiveness?

This bit at least I can answer: carpet-cleaning detergents for machines
are minimal foaming, because otherwise the way they are used would
generate mountains of the stuff. They seem to work, I don't know how
they compare with normal detergents, apart of course from being more
expensive in domestic quantities.

This bit I do know, because my chemistry teacher used to work for Unilever. Pure detergent is colourless odourless and looks exactly like water and
does not foam.
His job was to make it syrupy, foamy, smelly and colourful. And to bulk
it out because the actual amount needed was minimal.

(With a PhD from Oxford, he felt his life was better served in teaching
us ruffians.)

I have found that a mixture of detergent and diesel or paraffin is an excellent degreaser BTW. Ends up like  Swarfega,

Thanks in advance.

(I do try to search for answers to my humdrum questions but the sheer
amount of crap out there is quite alarming these days. Thanks again.)

In my haematology lab days, we used something called Decon90 for
degreasing glassware.

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On 27/06/2025 14:37, Andrew wrote:

Failing that I would just use
white spirit or even petrol to get worst of the muck off.

I have found fairy liquid and paraffin or diesel makes an acceptable replacement

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

Me too.

--
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

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On 27/06/2025 19:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/06/2025 14:37, Andrew wrote:

Failing that I would just use
white spirit or even petrol to get worst of the muck off.

I have found fairy liquid and paraffin or diesel makes an acceptable replacement

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

Me too.

Wasn't there some fuss about the abrasive particles (plastic?)?

My current container *Swarfega Orange* claims to use organic stuff,
seeds etc.


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On 27/06/2025 20:51, Timatmarford wrote:

On 27/06/2025 19:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/06/2025 14:37, Andrew wrote:

Failing that I would just use
white spirit or even petrol to get worst of the muck off.

I have found fairy liquid and paraffin or diesel makes an acceptable
replacement

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

Me too.

Wasn't there some fuss about the abrasive particles (plastic?)?

My current container *Swarfega Orange* claims to use organic stuff,
seeds etc.

60 years ago there were no particles, it was just gloopy.

Padding a gloopy hand on some sand added the necessary
abrasiveness :-)

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On 27/06/2025 20:51, Timatmarford wrote:

On 27/06/2025 19:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/06/2025 14:37, Andrew wrote:

Failing that I would just use
white spirit or even petrol to get worst of the muck off.

I have found fairy liquid and paraffin or diesel makes an acceptable
replacement

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

Me too.

Wasn't there some fuss about the abrasive particles (plastic?)?

My current container *Swarfega Orange* claims to use organic stuff,
seeds etc.

Ah. Walnut shells...:-)

--
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

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On 28/06/2025 00:01, Andrew wrote:

On 27/06/2025 20:51, Timatmarford wrote:

On 27/06/2025 19:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/06/2025 14:37, Andrew wrote:

Failing that I would just use
white spirit or even petrol to get worst of the muck off.

I have found fairy liquid and paraffin or diesel makes an acceptable
replacement

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

Me too.

Wasn't there some fuss about the abrasive particles (plastic?)?

My current container *Swarfega Orange* claims to use organic stuff,
seeds etc.

60 years ago there were no particles, it was just gloopy.

Padding a gloopy hand on some sand added the necessary
abrasiveness :-)

That was my recollection also. There was pink stiff that had pumice in
it IIRC.
--
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

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On 28/06/2025 11:48, AnthonyL wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 14:37:37 +0100, Andrew <[email protected]>
wrote:

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

https://www.scjp.com/en-gb/products/swarfega-original-classic

I've got a tub of the Classic - green stuff which I've bought in the
past 10 years

Why does it always go liquid with time?

--
Max Demian

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On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 14:37:37 +0100, Andrew <[email protected]>
wrote:

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

https://www.scjp.com/en-gb/products/swarfega-original-classic

I've got a tub of the Classic - green stuff which I've bought in the
past 10 years but the site now says:

"Product Notice � This product has been superseded by Swarfega�
ORANGE."
--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

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On 27/06/2025 13:02, mm0fmf wrote:

You probably need less than the typical squeeze people give the bottle.
The size of the whole in the top is effective in controlling usage so
don't be surprised if the manufacturers make that hole much bigger than
it needs to be.

We found we always used too much, much more than needed, Fairy Liquid...

We repurpose, those handwashing liquid soap pump bottles, once empty, we
refill with Fairy. The pump, pumps a measured dose into the bowl, which
is usually about right, and the Fairy really does last forever :-)

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On 28/06/2025 10:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 28/06/2025 00:01, Andrew wrote:

On 27/06/2025 20:51, Timatmarford wrote:

On 27/06/2025 19:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/06/2025 14:37, Andrew wrote:

Failing that I would just use
white spirit or even petrol to get worst of the muck off.

I have found fairy liquid and paraffin or diesel makes an acceptable
replacement

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

Me too.

Wasn't there some fuss about the abrasive particles (plastic?)?

My current container *Swarfega Orange* claims to use organic stuff,
seeds etc.

60 years ago there were no particles, it was just gloopy.

Padding a gloopy hand on some sand added the necessary
abrasiveness :-)

That was my recollection also. There was  pink stiff that had pumice in
it IIRC.

I have some old swarfega which I occasionally use with a small amount of granulated sugar. The sugar has sufficient sharp edges to act as an
abrasive when you are cleaning your hands, and then dissolves ... easier
than sand IMHO

I usually use Washing up liquid and sugar for washing my hands after a
bit of mildly 'dirty' work these days - seems to be reasonably effective.

J^n

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On 30/06/2025 17:59, David Paste wrote:

On 27/06/2025 13:57, Chris Hogg wrote:

For general degreasing etc, I used to use Swarfega, a greenish gel,
but I gather it's been discontinued due to it causing dermatitis.
Jizer is a liquid degreaser with similar applications.

The new swarfega is a bit crap, the orange stuff. I have found that
sugar and fairy liquid is pretty much unbeatable for washing oil &
grease off skin. Sugar is better than salt, I presume it's something to
with how coarse the granules are.

Also, I've found that the additional use of a dish type cloth help a lot
with Fairy Liquid - the cloth seems to help removing grime from the
troughs in your fingers. For paint on my hands Fairy Liquid on one of
those soft green pan scourers attached to a small sponge works well.

The downsides are that the fingerprint reader on my phone and laptop
don't work too well for some time afterwards. I have more than one
method for logging on.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

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David Paste wrote:

On 30/06/2025 20:03, alan_m wrote:

The downsides are that the fingerprint reader on my phone and laptop
don't work too well for some time afterwards.

Ah, that's interesting. I have a similar problem when I have a plaster
over my finger ;)

I was doing something and juggling the phone, so it seemed to my
distracted brain that I could use the nearest hand. :-(

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
[email protected] @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

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On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 10:48:28 GMT
[email protected]d (AnthonyL) wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 14:37:37 +0100, Andrew <[email protected]>
wrote:

I wondered what happened to Swarfega.

https://www.scjp.com/en-gb/products/swarfega-original-classic

I've got a tub of the Classic - green stuff which I've bought in the
past 10 years but the site now says:

"Product Notice _ This product has been superseded by Swarfega_
ORANGE."

I bought a tub of the green version a few months ago, so I am ok for
awhile.

--
Davey.

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David Paste wrote:

On 07/07/2025 11:38, Chris J Dixon wrote:

I was doing something and juggling the phone, so it seemed to my
distracted brain that I could use the nearest hand. :-(

At least it wasn't the iron!

The old ones are the best! ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
[email protected] @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

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