Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I had a doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because the
battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from �50
to �300 (perhaps more). The �50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do they
say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M?mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969-B0DC2VRM4M-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&
hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I think long term a small EV would suit me but I want something to get me
going until that happens, I have the ordinary charger on at the moment. Assuming I keep it charged (will the trickle charger do that) would that
work as a get out of trouble solution?


--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who do binary and those
who don't.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I had a >doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because the
battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from �50
to �300 (perhaps more). The �50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do they
say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M?mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969-B0DC2VRM4M-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=

g&hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I think long term a small EV would suit me but I want something to get me >going until that happens, I have the ordinary charger on at the moment. >Assuming I keep it charged (will the trickle charger do that) would that
work as a get out of trouble solution?

Christ, EV's are at least �10K more than equivalent ICE, do they really
expect us to buy them?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
will stop making it

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 15:53, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 13/06/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I
had a doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because
the battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from
£50 to £300 (perhaps more). The £50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do
they say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher
prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/
B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M?
mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969-
B0DC2VRM4M-
&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I think long term a small EV would suit me but I want something to get
me going until that happens, I have the ordinary charger on at the
moment. Assuming I keep it charged (will the trickle charger do that)
would that work as a get out of trouble solution?

Christ, EV's are at least £10K more than equivalent ICE, do they really expect us to buy them?

I suppose it depends whether you are paying full price and how long you
want to keep it for. My current figures are that I am saving around
£2000 a year in fuel costs (£1.40 a litre vs 7p a kWh - guessed, as I
haven't looked at the price of petrol for a while).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-06-13 15:08, Jeff Gaines wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I had
a doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because the battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from £50
to £300 (perhaps more). The £50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do they
say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/ B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M? mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969- B0DC2VRM4M- &hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I think long term a small EV would suit me but I want something to get
me going until that happens, I have the ordinary charger on at the
moment. Assuming I keep it charged (will the trickle charger do that)
would that work as a get out of trouble solution?

Bear in mind that EVs have 12V batteries too which can go flat if you
don't use them enough. Easier to start, but still needing a jump!

nib

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

On 13/06/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I had a >doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because the >battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from £50 >to £300 (perhaps more). The £50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do they >say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M?mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969-B0DC2VRM4M-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&

hvnetw=g&hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I would only buy one from a recognised brand, because 'Chinese amps' are a
bit like 'Chinese mAh' - they suffer from runaway inflation.

I think long term a small EV would suit me but I want something to get me >going until that happens, I have the ordinary charger on at the moment. >Assuming I keep it charged (will the trickle charger do that) would that >work as a get out of trouble solution?

Christ, EV's are at least £10K more than equivalent ICE, do they really expect us to buy them?

Don't buy new, buy slightly used. Most people buy cars on lease deals
nowadays so the new prices are somewhat hypothetical. EVs are a very good
deal as company cars because of lack of BiK taxation. Leasing companies negotiate big discounts with the manufacturer, and sell them on at the end
of the lease (or the lease can be terminated early, eg change of job). At
the end they throw them all at auctions, where dealers pick them up.

So a 1-3 year old EV can be picked up from a dealer for a fraction of the
new price. Usually they come with 5-7 year warranties so any faults should
be covered under warranty. Since they're EVs there's not much to go wrong - service schedules are less important (mostly just change the pollen filter; although some makes insist on that service to keep the warranty going, which
is a scam).

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <TVb*[email protected]>,
Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

nib <[email protected]> wrote:

Bear in mind that EVs have 12V batteries too which can go flat if you
don't use them enough. Easier to start, but still needing a jump!

Don't they charge the 12V if they're plugged in?

Not on mine (Enyaq). 12v is only chsrged when vehicle is going. I had one warning of low battery in the cold weather last winter.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t�
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 16:01, SteveW wrote:

I suppose it depends whether you are paying full price and how long you
want to keep it for. My current figures are that I am saving around
£2000 a year in fuel costs (£1.40 a litre vs 7p a kWh - guessed, as I haven't looked at the price of petrol for a while).

It all depends how far, on average, you can travel per kWhr. My diesel
car averages about 14 pence per mile, based on its average mpg and the
cost of fuel.

What are the equivalent running costs, in pence per mile, for an EV?

How do you get an electricity tariff of 7p/kWhr? Do you have solar
panels and is 7p the nett cost after you have reduced your household electricity usage from the grid by the amount of solar power your
generate? Or there a special EV tariff that electricity companies charge
you? How much is off-peak (Economy 7) tariff. Our tariff (no Economy 7)
is 26.2 p/kWhr.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 17:00, charles wrote:

In article <TVb*[email protected]>,
Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

nib <[email protected]> wrote:

Bear in mind that EVs have 12V batteries too which can go flat if you
don't use them enough. Easier to start, but still needing a jump!

Don't they charge the 12V if they're plugged in?

Not on mine (Enyaq). 12v is only chsrged when vehicle is going. I had one warning of low battery in the cold weather last winter.

My parents had a Toyota petrol/EV hybrid and that was always suffering
from a flat 12V battery which would not start the engine; once Dad got
locked out of the car after he'd stopped at a motorway service station
(after driving for several hours so the engine-charged battery should
have been fully charged). Luckily he remembered how to unlock the door
manually without using central locking so he could open the bonnet so
the RAC man could jump-start the car. He ended up having to put the car
on charge every night in case the battery had no charge in the morning.
The garage where he had it serviced had looked at it many times and
couldn't find a cause.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-06-13 17:03, NY wrote:

On 13/06/2025 16:01, SteveW wrote:

I suppose it depends whether you are paying full price and how long
you want to keep it for. My current figures are that I am saving
around £2000 a year in fuel costs (£1.40 a litre vs 7p a kWh -
guessed, as I haven't looked at the price of petrol for a while).

It all depends how far, on average, you can travel per kWhr. My diesel
car averages about 14 pence per mile, based on its average mpg and the
cost of fuel.

What are the equivalent running costs, in pence per mile, for an EV?

How do you get an electricity tariff of 7p/kWhr? Do you have solar
panels and is 7p the nett cost after you have reduced your household electricity usage from the grid by the amount of solar power your
generate? Or there a special EV tariff that electricity companies charge
you? How much is off-peak (Economy 7) tariff. Our tariff (no Economy 7)
is 26.2 p/kWhr.

My E7 is 14.8 p/kWh and the car averages 3.34 mi/kWh so 4.4 p/mile.
Special EV tariffs can be much cheaper than that.

nib

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

NY <[email protected]> wrote:

On 13/06/2025 17:00, charles wrote:

In article <TVb*[email protected]>,
Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

nib <[email protected]> wrote:

Bear in mind that EVs have 12V batteries too which can go flat if you
don't use them enough. Easier to start, but still needing a jump!

Don't they charge the 12V if they're plugged in?

Not on mine (Enyaq). 12v is only chsrged when vehicle is going. I had one warning of low battery in the cold weather last winter.

My parents had a Toyota petrol/EV hybrid and that was always suffering
from a flat 12V battery which would not start the engine; once Dad got
locked out of the car after he'd stopped at a motorway service station
(after driving for several hours so the engine-charged battery should
have been fully charged). Luckily he remembered how to unlock the door manually without using central locking so he could open the bonnet so
the RAC man could jump-start the car. He ended up having to put the car
on charge every night in case the battery had no charge in the morning.
The garage where he had it serviced had looked at it many times and
couldn't find a cause.

I have the same model (a Yaris hybrid) and it's been flawless - I charged
the 12V battery the other day, the first time in 6 years. (the car wouldn't turn *off* due to the flat 12V battery). Had you mentioned it at the time I would have offered to buy it from your parents :-)

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

nib <[email protected]> wrote:

Bear in mind that EVs have 12V batteries too which can go flat if you
don't use them enough. Easier to start, but still needing a jump!

Don't they charge the 12V if they're plugged in?

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

NY <[email protected]> wrote:

On 13/06/2025 16:01, SteveW wrote:

I suppose it depends whether you are paying full price and how long you
want to keep it for. My current figures are that I am saving around
£2000 a year in fuel costs (£1.40 a litre vs 7p a kWh - guessed, as I
haven't looked at the price of petrol for a while).

It all depends how far, on average, you can travel per kWhr. My diesel
car averages about 14 pence per mile, based on its average mpg and the
cost of fuel.

What are the equivalent running costs, in pence per mile, for an EV?

For mine, about 2p per mile.

How do you get an electricity tariff of 7p/kWhr?

You sign up to an EV tariff that gives you cheap rate (forThe whole house)
at night with a higher than average rate during the day time. You need to
work out roughly what proportion of your power consumption can be time
shifted to the night.

If you’re doing a reasonable mileage (12,000 miles PA say) it definitely benefits you assuming you’re not running hot tub, electric saunas etc
during the day.

Do you have solar
panels and is 7p the nett cost after you have reduced your household electricity usage from the grid by the amount of solar power your
generate?

Nope, the 7p is the cost before mixing in solar etc.

If you have a solar system with home batteries, you can charge them at
night and never pay more than 7p for your electricity. Having said that,
there are charging and discharging losses so using stored power probably
works out effectively nearer 10p.

I do about 1000-1200 miles a month and last month paid £61 for my energy import, but got paid £173 for my export.


Or there a special EV tariff that electricity companies charge

you? How much is off-peak (Economy 7) tariff. Our tariff (no Economy 7)
is 26.2 p/kWhr.

I pay 27.22p peak rate, 7p off peak but with a 55.92p daily standing
charge. (Octopus Intelligent Go).

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 15:08, Jeff Gaines wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I had
a doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because the battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from £50
to £300 (perhaps more). The £50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do they
say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M?mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969-B0DC2VRM4M-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=

g&hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I think long term a small EV would suit me but I want something to get
me going until that happens, I have the ordinary charger on at the
moment. Assuming I keep it charged (will the trickle charger do that)
would that work as a get out of trouble solution?

I have one of these and it is excellent. The type I have will charge off
the car's half-dead battery - provided it has around 9v or above
(doesn't have to be pre-charged). It also has an cigar-lighter adaptor
which will fully charge off another car in about two minutes. Mine has
got me out of trouble very rapidly when I've done stupid things like
leaving the lights on.

I paid around £110 for it about 18 months ago, and highly recommend them.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 17:13, Theo wrote:

I have the same model (a Yaris hybrid) and it's been flawless - I charged
the 12V battery the other day, the first time in 6 years. (the car wouldn't turn *off* due to the flat 12V battery). Had you mentioned it at the time I would have offered to buy it from your parents :-)

Never thought of advertising it on here. My dad had to stop driving at
about the same time as my mum's 25-year-old Daihatsu became uneconomical
to repair after failing its MOT. She had the option of using Dad's car
as her car. She said "not on your nelly - I know how unreliable it's been".

If it had been my car, I'd have kicked up a real stink with the garage
and with Toyota head office after it had happened a few times, because
the car was clearly a lemon and/or the Toyota dealer hadn't the skill to investigate and fix the problem. I can't remember whether the bought it
new or low-mileage second-hand. It's still taxed and MOTed so evidently
the new owner has either got the problem fixed or has learned to live
with the problem. It's 15 reg so summer 2015. And I first heard of it
happening when it was maybe about 5 years old. So they lived with it for
about 10 years, enduring the alarm going off if they tried to unlock the
car when the battery had gone flat, and having to wait in for RAC to
arrive and jump-start the car.

Flat batteries are a PITA. My 08-reg 200,000-mile Peugeot started having problems 6 months ago - it would start perfectly, especially after the
starter motor was replaced (first time in its life) and then one day,
without warning, the battery was as dead as a dodo. The garage couldn't
find any problem with the alternator or voltage regulator, and the
battery was fairly new and held its charge well once they'd recharged
it. Eventually they found a problem with a poor earth contact, either
with the battery to "chassis" or the alternator to "chassis". I wonder
how long that repair will last - hopefully they've fixed it.

One of the problems with a lot of modern cars is jump-starting them
because there isn't a good earth point to attach the -ve of the jump
leads - available metal is either painted or else is too thick to get
the jaws of the jump leads round. Whenever I tried to jump-start it from
my wife's Honda, I struggled to get a good enough contact that the Honda battery would start the Peugeot. Not sure whether it was at the donor or recipient end of the leads. I know when my garage came out to jump-start
my car so they could take it in to investigate the problem, the guy
struggled to get a decent contact, trying various parts of the engine/alternator housing. And the battery -ve terminal was in a deep
recess so you couldn't get a lead in there, to force you to use
somewhere further away, avoiding the safety issue of hydrogen from the
battery.

Cars really need to have a large, easily accessible earth point for
attaching the -ve jump lead to.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

On 13/06/2025 in message <TVb*[email protected]> Theo wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I had a >>>doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because the >>>battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from £50 >>>to £300 (perhaps more). The £50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do they >>>say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M?mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969-B0DC2VRM4M-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&

hvnetw=g&hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I would only buy one from a recognised brand, because 'Chinese amps' are a >bit like 'Chinese mAh' - they suffer from runaway inflation.

Can you suggest a recognised brand please? My 2 year old charger won't
charge the battery so I am dead in the water.

Noco is one, see recent thread.

BTW, starting prices on new EVs:
Suzuki Vitara 1.4 petrol - £27299
BYD Dolphin Surf EV - £18650

Indeed, almost 10K more expensive... is the petrol.

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 in message <TVb*[email protected]> Theo wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I had a >>>doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because the >>>battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from £50 >>>to £300 (perhaps more). The £50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do they >>>say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M?mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969-B0DC2VRM4M-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&

hvnetw=g&hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I would only buy one from a recognised brand, because 'Chinese amps' are a >bit like 'Chinese mAh' - they suffer from runaway inflation.

Can you suggest a recognised brand please? My 2 year old charger won't
charge the battery so I am dead in the water.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There is absolutely no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 in message <TVb*[email protected]> Theo wrote:

I would only buy one from a recognised brand, because 'Chinese amps' are >>>a
bit like 'Chinese mAh' - they suffer from runaway inflation.

Can you suggest a recognised brand please? My 2 year old charger won't >>charge the battery so I am dead in the water.

Noco is one, see recent thread.

BTW, starting prices on new EVs:
Suzuki Vitara 1.4 petrol - £27299
BYD Dolphin Surf EV - £18650

Indeed, almost 10K more expensive... is the petrol.

Thanks, ordered, arrives Sunday.

I think a Kia Picanto at £17,250 is more on a par with the BYD Dolphin?

I love my Vitara, if I have a reliable starting solution the best thing
will be to keep it I think.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his
life.
(Jeremy Thorpe, 1962)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 18:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:

I love my Vitara, if I have a reliable starting solution the best thing
will be to keep it I think.

Seems to me as though you just need a new battery. How old is the
car/battery? They aren't too expensive to replace and can be delivered
fully charged, for example: <https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx1063/>
Or if that's not the size, perhaps try: <https://www.batterycharged.co.uk/shop/car-batteries/suzuki/vitara.html>

--
Jeff

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <[email protected]>, Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

On 13/06/2025 in message <TVb*[email protected]> Theo
wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I
had a doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because >>>the battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from >>>�50 to �300 (perhaps more). The �50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do >>>they say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher >>>prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M?mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969-B0DC2VRM4M-&hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&

hvnetw=g&hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I would only buy one from a recognised brand, because 'Chinese amps' are
a bit like 'Chinese mAh' - they suffer from runaway inflation.

Can you suggest a recognised brand please? My 2 year old charger won't
charge the battery so I am dead in the water.

During "lockdown". my car stayed in the drive, so the battery went flat - alarms use energy. My Halfords' simple charger did nothing , so I bought a
Ring 'intelligent' one, It worked a treat. It's probably made in China
(what isn't) but at least there's recognised brand name on the box.

--

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t�
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 13/06/2025 18:56, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 13/06/2025 18:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:

I love my Vitara, if I have a reliable starting solution the best thing
will be to keep it I think.

Seems to me as though you just need a new battery. How old is the car/battery? They aren't too expensive to replace and can be delivered
fully charged, for example: <https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx1063/>
Or if that's not the size, perhaps try: <https://www.batterycharged.co.uk/shop/car-batteries/suzuki/vitara.html>

Battery state can be determined at any battery place.

Might be something draining it...an ammeter in series will detect that

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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NY <[email protected]> wrote:

On 13/06/2025 17:13, Theo wrote:

I have the same model (a Yaris hybrid) and it's been flawless - I charged the 12V battery the other day, the first time in 6 years. (the car wouldn't
turn *off* due to the flat 12V battery). Had you mentioned it at the time I
would have offered to buy it from your parents :-)

Never thought of advertising it on here. My dad had to stop driving at
about the same time as my mum's 25-year-old Daihatsu became uneconomical
to repair after failing its MOT. She had the option of using Dad's car
as her car. She said "not on your nelly - I know how unreliable it's been".

I remember you mentioning it and thinking it would be a nice little
challenge to fix... (I do know a fair bit about the electrical systems on Toyota hybrids now)

If it had been my car, I'd have kicked up a real stink with the garage
and with Toyota head office after it had happened a few times, because
the car was clearly a lemon and/or the Toyota dealer hadn't the skill to investigate and fix the problem.

Indeed. These kind of problems can be pesky to track down, and garages paid
by the hour aren't interested - they just want to pump out servicing (nice money spinner), discs/pads, suspension fixes, ... all day long. If they
put the time in the bill turns into four figures very rapidly, and the risk
is the customer just walks away. You need a proper auto electrician who
knows how to diagnose to begin with, and if the garage doesn't have one on staff then you need to take it somewhere else.

I can't remember whether the bought it
new or low-mileage second-hand. It's still taxed and MOTed so evidently
the new owner has either got the problem fixed or has learned to live
with the problem. It's 15 reg so summer 2015. And I first heard of it happening when it was maybe about 5 years old. So they lived with it for about 10 years, enduring the alarm going off if they tried to unlock the
car when the battery had gone flat, and having to wait in for RAC to
arrive and jump-start the car.

I would be tearing my hair out in short order about that...

I'm guessing it's a fault in one or other module if it's been there since (nearly) new. A garage that's used to throwing parts at problems is not
going to be randomly swapping £1k worth of modules with new ones.

Flat batteries are a PITA. My 08-reg 200,000-mile Peugeot started having problems 6 months ago - it would start perfectly, especially after the starter motor was replaced (first time in its life) and then one day,
without warning, the battery was as dead as a dodo. The garage couldn't
find any problem with the alternator or voltage regulator, and the
battery was fairly new and held its charge well once they'd recharged
it. Eventually they found a problem with a poor earth contact, either
with the battery to "chassis" or the alternator to "chassis". I wonder
how long that repair will last - hopefully they've fixed it.

Yes, earth faults can cause all kinds of weird stuff. Once (an older car)
had all the lights go dark while driving, which I think must have been an
earth fault. I stopped, and it came back and worked forever more
afterwards.

One of the problems with a lot of modern cars is jump-starting them
because there isn't a good earth point to attach the -ve of the jump
leads - available metal is either painted or else is too thick to get
the jaws of the jump leads round. Whenever I tried to jump-start it from
my wife's Honda, I struggled to get a good enough contact that the Honda battery would start the Peugeot. Not sure whether it was at the donor or recipient end of the leads. I know when my garage came out to jump-start
my car so they could take it in to investigate the problem, the guy
struggled to get a decent contact, trying various parts of the engine/alternator housing. And the battery -ve terminal was in a deep
recess so you couldn't get a lead in there, to force you to use
somewhere further away, avoiding the safety issue of hydrogen from the battery.

Cars really need to have a large, easily accessible earth point for
attaching the -ve jump lead to.

Nice thing about hybrids is they don't have heavy jump start currents -
20-30A is enough to open the contactors and get going. (or close the contactors, as I found the other day when it refused to turn off)

Theo

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On 13/06/2025 20:57, Andy Burns wrote:

Theo wrote:

nib wrote:

Bear in mind that EVs have 12V batteries too which can go flat if you

don't use them enough. Easier to start, but still needing a jump!

Don't they charge the 12V if they're plugged in?

Neighbour's Prius doesn't, he left it plugged in over lockdown, had all deliveries by supermarket van, then couldn't open the car doors, dealer
came and collected it on a flatbed truck.

Did it not have manual override for the door locks, using the key blade
in a hidden hole, typically on the underside of the handle? My Peugeot
is old enough that it has conventional keyholes in the handles as an alternative to the remote control. Just as well because the remote has
failed in the spare key that I give the garage when I take it for
servicing. My wife's much newer Honda doesn't have on-display keyhole
but it does have little flaps underneath the handles which you open with
a flat-head screwdriver and insert the key, though I've never had to use
them. Neither car has keyless ignition; we deliberately went for a trim
level that didn't have it because we've heard too many reports of it
making it easier for the car to be stolen.

It seem an inherent weakness if a flat battery means you can't open the
doors to access the bonnet release to charge the battery...

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Theo wrote:

nib wrote:

Bear in mind that EVs have 12V batteries too which can go flat if you

don't use them enough. Easier to start, but still needing a jump!

Don't they charge the 12V if they're plugged in?

Neighbour's Prius doesn't, he left it plugged in over lockdown, had all deliveries by supermarket van, then couldn't open the car doors, dealer
came and collected it on a flatbed truck.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 13/06/2025 in message <102hoof$39nbr$[email protected]> Jeff Layman wrote:

On 13/06/2025 18:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:

I love my Vitara, if I have a reliable starting solution the best thing >>will be to keep it I think.

Seems to me as though you just need a new battery. How old is the >car/battery? They aren't too expensive to replace and can be delivered
fully charged, for example: ><https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx1063/>
Or if that's not the size, perhaps try: ><https://www.batterycharged.co.uk/shop/car-batteries/suzuki/vitara.html>

I suspect you're right, it's 4.5 years old and not used anywhere near
enough. The charger indicated that it wouldn't take a charge so a new
battery would probably give it a new lease of life.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his
life.
(Jeremy Thorpe, 1962)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 13/06/2025 in message <102hout$3ip1c$[email protected]> The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 13/06/2025 18:56, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 13/06/2025 18:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:

I love my Vitara, if I have a reliable starting solution the best thing >>>will be to keep it I think.

Seems to me as though you just need a new battery. How old is the >>car/battery? They aren't too expensive to replace and can be delivered >>fully charged, for example: >><https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx1063/>
Or if that's not the size, perhaps try: >><https://www.batterycharged.co.uk/shop/car-batteries/suzuki/vitara.html>

Battery state can be determined at any battery place.

Might be something draining it...an ammeter in series will detect that

They're like computers, never really turn off.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.
It was a right bugger to get him back when he ran off.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 16:38, Theo wrote:

Don't they charge the 12V if they're plugged in?

My Nissan Leaf charges its 12V battery with a solar panel built into the
roof, but failing that (parking in the garage) it charges from the
traction battery.

--
TOJ

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 21:07:36 +0100, Theo wrote:

Nice thing about hybrids is they don't have heavy jump start currents - 20-30A is enough to open the contactors and get going. (or close the contactors, as I found the other day when it refused to turn off)

Yes. I have a Ford S-Max hybrid and I have been using it intermittently.
The battery sometimes gets low enough that only the driver's door will
'touch unlock'.

There is always plenty of juice to operate the contactors. However, I
carry a jump start pack that was adequate for the previous diesel S-Max,
so I should be OK.

The transmission is basically a modification of the original Toyota one -
very simple and smooth. It worried me for a while until I found a motor engineering video that explained how it worked!



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

On 13/06/2025 in message <102hoof$39nbr$[email protected]> Jeff Layman wrote:

On 13/06/2025 18:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:

I love my Vitara, if I have a reliable starting solution the best thing >>>will be to keep it I think.

Seems to me as though you just need a new battery. How old is the >>car/battery? They aren't too expensive to replace and can be delivered >>fully charged, for example: >><https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx1063/>
Or if that's not the size, perhaps try: >><https://www.batterycharged.co.uk/shop/car-batteries/suzuki/vitara.html>

I suspect you're right, it's 4.5 years old and not used anywhere near
enough. The charger indicated that it wouldn't take a charge so a new
battery would probably give it a new lease of life.

Got a recall notice this morning for the EVAP Canister purge system, I'll
get a new battery fitted at the same time.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
The first five days after the weekend are the hardest.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 17:00, charles wrote:

In article <TVb*[email protected]>,
Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

nib <[email protected]> wrote:

Bear in mind that EVs have 12V batteries too which can go flat if you
don't use them enough. Easier to start, but still needing a jump!

Don't they charge the 12V if they're plugged in?

Not on mine (Enyaq). 12v is only chsrged when vehicle is going. I had one warning of low battery in the cold weather last winter.

Some even automatically charge the 12V battery from the traction
battery, if it starts to get too low - although they won't if the
traction battery is below a certain charge level.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2025-06-14 12:28, SteveW wrote:

On 13/06/2025 17:00, charles wrote:

In article <TVb*[email protected]>,
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:

nib <[email protected]> wrote:

Bear in mind that EVs have 12V batteries too which can go flat if you
don't use them enough. Easier to start, but still needing a jump!

Don't they charge the 12V if they're plugged in?

Not on mine (Enyaq). 12v is only chsrged when vehicle is going.  I had
one
warning of low battery in the cold weather last winter.

Some even automatically charge the 12V battery from the traction
battery, if it starts to get too low - although they won't if the
traction battery is below a certain charge level.

Teslas do that I think, though many of them have a much smaller 12V
battery, lithium-ion rather than lead-acid, and drain it quite a lot
with things running while "off".

nib

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 14/06/2025 in message <[email protected]> David wrote:

I retained the old one in case of a completely flat battery which "smart" >chargers often won't charge.

That seems to be the situation I am in. If the power pack (arriving
tomorrow) gets it going then I'll live with that until the recall works is
one when I'll have a new battery fitted.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I take full responsibility for what happened - that is why the person that
was responsible went immediately.
(Gordon Brown, April 2009)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 17:15:52 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 13/06/2025 in message <TVb*[email protected]> Theo
wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I
had a doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because >>>>the battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from >>>>£50 to £300 (perhaps more). The £50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do >>>>they say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher >>>>prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-Battery-Booster-Diesel-Engine/dp/ B0DC2VRM4M/ref=asc_df_B0DC2VRM4M? mcid=385d9edbc1fe383b9676803b03b4cc9d&hvocijid=512271005607122969-

B0DC2VRM4M- &hvexpln=74&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=512271005607122969&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9191620&hvtargid=pla-2281435178138&gad_source=1&th=1

I would only buy one from a recognised brand, because 'Chinese amps' are
a bit like 'Chinese mAh' - they suffer from runaway inflation.

Can you suggest a recognised brand please? My 2 year old charger won't
charge the battery so I am dead in the water.

Just bought a Ring charger.
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B087ZGVK6L?>
which seems to work OK.
I bought it because my ancient charger showed no indication of how well
the battery was charged.
It worked well charging the battery.
I retained the old one in case of a completely flat battery which "smart" chargers often won't charge.

Prior to that I bought
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0924V8SPC?th=1>
after having been left stranded in a car park with a flat battery.
Never had to use it yet, thankfully.

HTH



Dave R



--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 13/06/2025 18:15, Jeff Gaines wrote:

Can you suggest a recognised brand please? My 2 year old charger won't
charge the battery so I am dead in the water.

What you have is a modern, intelligent charger. These test the battery
voltage, and if the voltage is too low, they refuse to try to charge.
There are two ways, to start off the charge - Either try an old
fashioned dumb charger, or temporarily connect another 12v battery in
parallel, with your flat battery, to increase its voltage, to an
acceptable level for the charger you have.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 13/06/2025 21:14, NY wrote:

It seem an inherent weakness if a flat battery means you can't open the
doors to access the bonnet release to charge the battery...

Even more of a problem, if you can open the car door, but the bonnet
release has an in built weakness, where it becomes detached.

My car, has two bonnet latches, and has a plastic splitter box, to split
the single release cable to operate the two releases. The plastic
splitter box, can become detached, so pulling the release does nothing. Luckily, there was a known way to get access.

You have to jack the car up, remove the wheel, pull back the wheel arch
liner, and grab hold of each cable end in turn, with a pair of long
nosed pliers. via a small hole in the inner wing. Basically keyhole
surgery at it's best, and no way to see what you are doing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In article <102n8e2$13lpc$[email protected]>,
Vir Campestris <[email protected]d> wrote:

On 13/06/2025 17:03, NY wrote:

On 13/06/2025 16:01, SteveW wrote:

I suppose it depends whether you are paying full price and how long
you want to keep it for. My current figures are that I am saving
around �2000 a year in fuel costs (�1.40 a litre vs 7p a kWh -
guessed, as I haven't looked at the price of petrol for a while).

It all depends how far, on average, you can travel per kWhr. My diesel
car averages about 14 pence per mile, based on its average mpg and the
cost of fuel.

What are the equivalent running costs, in pence per mile, for an EV?

How do you get an electricity tariff of 7p/kWhr? Do you have solar
panels and is 7p the nett cost after you have reduced your household electricity usage from the grid by the amount of solar power your
generate? Or there a special EV tariff that electricity companies charge you? How much is off-peak (Economy 7) tariff. Our tariff (no Economy 7)
is 26.2 p/kWhr.

The trouble with only looking at fuel costs is that you aren't allowing
for depreciation on the car, or for servicing cost etc.

I paid �12,000 for my car, and it's probably worth about 6k now. Not bad after 20 years... but it's a bit thirsty, and the servicing is getting expensive. But that thirsty? It's not on the radar for the costs. With
the low mileage it does I think the road tax is more than the fuel.

The AA used to publish tables with the overall cost per mile. Fuel was
never a very large proportion.

when I started owning a car, petrol was just 5/- per gallon. Now it's
nearer �6.50.

Andy

--

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t�
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 13/06/2025 17:03, NY wrote:

On 13/06/2025 16:01, SteveW wrote:

I suppose it depends whether you are paying full price and how long
you want to keep it for. My current figures are that I am saving
around £2000 a year in fuel costs (£1.40 a litre vs 7p a kWh -
guessed, as I haven't looked at the price of petrol for a while).

It all depends how far, on average, you can travel per kWhr. My diesel
car averages about 14 pence per mile, based on its average mpg and the
cost of fuel.

What are the equivalent running costs, in pence per mile, for an EV?

How do you get an electricity tariff of 7p/kWhr? Do you have solar
panels and is 7p the nett cost after you have reduced your household electricity usage from the grid by the amount of solar power your
generate? Or there a special EV tariff that electricity companies charge
you? How much is off-peak (Economy 7) tariff. Our tariff (no Economy 7)
is 26.2 p/kWhr.

The trouble with only looking at fuel costs is that you aren't allowing
for depreciation on the car, or for servicing cost etc.

I paid £12,000 for my car, and it's probably worth about 6k now. Not bad
after 20 years... but it's a bit thirsty, and the servicing is getting expensive. But that thirsty? It's not on the radar for the costs. With
the low mileage it does I think the road tax is more than the fuel.

The AA used to publish tables with the overall cost per mile. Fuel was
never a very large proportion.

Andy

--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 15/06/2025 in message <[email protected]> charles wrote:

In article <102n8e2$13lpc$[email protected]>,
Vir Campestris <[email protected]d> wrote:

On 13/06/2025 17:03, NY wrote:

On 13/06/2025 16:01, SteveW wrote:

I suppose it depends whether you are paying full price and how long
you want to keep it for. My current figures are that I am saving
around �2000 a year in fuel costs (�1.40 a litre vs 7p a kWh -
guessed, as I haven't looked at the price of petrol for a while).

It all depends how far, on average, you can travel per kWhr. My diesel >>>car averages about 14 pence per mile, based on its average mpg and the >>>cost of fuel.

What are the equivalent running costs, in pence per mile, for an EV?

How do you get an electricity tariff of 7p/kWhr? Do you have solar
panels and is 7p the nett cost after you have reduced your household >>>electricity usage from the grid by the amount of solar power your >>>generate? Or there a special EV tariff that electricity companies charge >>>you? How much is off-peak (Economy 7) tariff. Our tariff (no Economy 7) >>>is 26.2 p/kWhr.

The trouble with only looking at fuel costs is that you aren't allowing
for depreciation on the car, or for servicing cost etc.

I paid �12,000 for my car, and it's probably worth about 6k now. Not bad >>after 20 years... but it's a bit thirsty, and the servicing is getting >>expensive. But that thirsty? It's not on the radar for the costs. With
the low mileage it does I think the road tax is more than the fuel.

The AA used to publish tables with the overall cost per mile. Fuel was >>never a very large proportion.

when I started owning a car, petrol was just 5/- per gallon. Now it's
nearer �6.50.

3s 8d for me, I could fill my MG Midget (6 gallons) for �1.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
(Ken Olson, president Digital Equipment, 1977)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Vir Campestris <[email protected]d> wrote:

The trouble with only looking at fuel costs is that you aren't allowing
for depreciation on the car, or for servicing cost etc.

I paid £12,000 for my car, and it's probably worth about 6k now. Not bad after 20 years... but it's a bit thirsty, and the servicing is getting expensive. But that thirsty? It's not on the radar for the costs. With
the low mileage it does I think the road tax is more than the fuel.

The AA used to publish tables with the overall cost per mile. Fuel was
never a very large proportion.

Here's a chap who bought a 238,000 mile EV for £3000. It cost £200 in parts to do all the fixes that needed doing due to that wear and tear, and took a couple of hours. The battery health is at 91% (original range was 160 miles).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97j1AOTKoKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey49-D_Tsyo

Servicing is just changing the pollen filter - no oil to change.
Obviously tyres and suspension stuff may still need doing from time to time.

Efficiency about 3.7 miles per kWh, so a lifetime energy usage of roughly 64 MWh. If you managed to use a home charger at 7p/kWh for that, we're talking £4500 in lifetime fuel costs.

If it was a petrol and got 60 mpg, that's 3967 gallons at £1.40 a litre, ie about £25000 in petrol costs.

Obviously not everyone drives that kind of miles, but it does show how
electric makes sense on fuel costs alone. Insurance, tax, etc can be
assumed to be similar.

(if you use motorway chargers electricity is substantially more, but then so
is petrol. Starting every day with a full 'tank' of electricity can reduce
the amount you have to buy power when away from home)

Theo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 15/06/2025 21:50, Theo wrote:

Here's a chap who bought a 238,000 mile EV for £3000. It cost £200 in parts
to do all the fixes that needed doing due to that wear and tear, and took a couple of hours. The battery health is at 91% (original range was 160 miles).

Efficiency about 3.7 miles per kWh, so a lifetime energy usage of roughly 64 MWh. If you managed to use a home charger at 7p/kWh for that, we're talking £4500 in lifetime fuel costs.

That car had frequent MoTs from 2020 (averaging 110 miles a day in the
first year), so was used as a Taxi, and unlikely to be 7p/kWh.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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ajh <[email protected]> wrote:

On 15/06/2025 21:50, Theo wrote:

The battery health is at 91%

Is there a way to find the SOH via an OBD2 reader and are the codes generic?

Many OBD 'scanner' type apps can read them - eg 'Car Scanner'. There are
also make-specific apps like Scan My Tesla and Leaf Spy.

There are also paid battery health scanning services, if you want an
official report with insurance etc. Dealers are starting to include that report when selling used vehicles.

Theo

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Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> wrote:

On 15/06/2025 21:50, Theo wrote:

Here's a chap who bought a 238,000 mile EV for £3000. It cost £200 in parts
to do all the fixes that needed doing due to that wear and tear, and took a couple of hours. The battery health is at 91% (original range was 160 miles).

Efficiency about 3.7 miles per kWh, so a lifetime energy usage of roughly 64
MWh. If you managed to use a home charger at 7p/kWh for that, we're talking
£4500 in lifetime fuel costs.

That car had frequent MoTs from 2020 (averaging 110 miles a day in the first year), so was used as a Taxi, and unlikely to be 7p/kWh.

If it has 160 miles range, and was used 110 miles a day, why wouldn't it
have been charged overnight on a home charger?

(assuming the driver lived somewhere with a home charger, of course -
something we can't know without asking them)

Theo

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On 15/06/2025 21:50, Theo wrote:

The battery health is at 91%

Is there a way to find the SOH via an OBD2 reader and are the codes generic?

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On 16/06/2025 10:59, Theo wrote:

Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> wrote:

On 15/06/2025 21:50, Theo wrote:

Here's a chap who bought a 238,000 mile EV for £3000. It cost £200 in parts
to do all the fixes that needed doing due to that wear and tear, and took a >>> couple of hours. The battery health is at 91% (original range was 160 miles).


Efficiency about 3.7 miles per kWh, so a lifetime energy usage of roughly 64
MWh. If you managed to use a home charger at 7p/kWh for that, we're talking
£4500 in lifetime fuel costs.

That car had frequent MoTs from 2020 (averaging 110 miles a day in the
first year), so was used as a Taxi, and unlikely to be 7p/kWh.

If it has 160 miles range, and was used 110 miles a day, why wouldn't it
have been charged overnight on a home charger?

Because there would have been days when the mileage was over 110 miles,
amd the driver(s) would want to pick up premium fares at night.

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On 13/06/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

Apologies if I have asked this before but I need to do something, I had a >doctor's appointment this afternoon that I had to cancel because the
battery on my car is flat (it doesn't get much use).

It's a Suzuki Vitara 1.4 litre engine. These packs seem to cost from �50
to �300 (perhaps more). The �50 one (Amazon) is 2,500 Amps (why do they
say "amperage", makes me gag), with higher currents for higher prices.

I got the NOCO Boost GBX55, the smaller one was showing later delivery.
Arrived yesterday, took a few hours to charge (I may look for a more
powerful USB charger) but started the car on the second push this morning.
I immediately took the car for a 15 mile drive and the battery is now
charging normally on the trickle charger.

When I connected the booster it took a few seconds then there was some
clicking as all the electrics (presumably responsible for draining the
battery) came back to life.

It is now asking for a PIN for the radio, supposed to be in one of the booklets.

Once it was clear what was needed the hardest part was finding the bonnet catch, I had to go online to find out where it is, followed by how to get
the physical key out of the fob as there was insufficient power to respond
to the signal.

Many thanks for all the input, recall work and new battery to be done soon
as I can get an appointment :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Though no-one can go back and make a new start, everyone can start from
now and make a new ending.

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In message <102hefl$3gdmk$[email protected]>, at 16:01:08 on Fri, 13 Jun
2025, SteveW <[email protected]> remarked:

My current figures are that I am saving around �2000 a year in fuel
costs (�1.40 a litre vs 7p a kWh - guessed, as I haven't looked at the
price of petrol for a while).

Petrol is currently 132-135p per litre in East Anglia.

My domestic electricity is 26p/kWh, it could perhaps be less if my smart
meter worked, but it's more than two years now since it broke and I
can't get any traction for requests to repair/replace it.
--
Roland Perry

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Theo wrote:

ajh wrote:

Is there a way to find the SOH via an OBD2 reader and are the codes generic?

Many OBD 'scanner' type apps can read them - eg 'Car Scanner'. There are also make-specific apps like Scan My Tesla and Leaf Spy.

Is there an industry-wide meaning to SOH, or is it just a number, should
it be a linear decline?

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Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:

Theo wrote:

ajh wrote:

Is there a way to find the SOH via an OBD2 reader and are the codes generic?

Many OBD 'scanner' type apps can read them - eg 'Car Scanner'. There are also make-specific apps like Scan My Tesla and Leaf Spy.

Is there an industry-wide meaning to SOH, or is it just a number, should
it be a linear decline?

The meaning is the percentage of usable battery capacity remaining from the original. eg if the battery was 100kWh (usable), a 91% SoH means only 91kWh
of that remains usable - if you charge to full you'll only get 91kWh out of
it.

It's just the same calculation as the SoH in laptops or phones, although
it's common for cars to have some buffer at the top end to avoid
overstressing the cells (for longevity the installed battery might be
actually 105kWh but they only ever charge to 100kWh even when new)

Exactly how that is calculated is down to the BMS in the vehicle. Decline
is down to the chemistry, but typically it's common to lose a few percent in the first year or two and then flatten off. Some of those percent can be masked by the buffer, depending on how they calculate it (eg if the battery
is really only 102kWh now, it still shows 100% SoH because the usable
capacity remains 100kWh).

Theo

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Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> wrote:

On 16/06/2025 10:59, Theo wrote:

Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> wrote:

On 15/06/2025 21:50, Theo wrote:

Here's a chap who bought a 238,000 mile EV for £3000. It cost £200 in parts
to do all the fixes that needed doing due to that wear and tear, and took a
couple of hours. The battery health is at 91% (original range was 160 miles).


Efficiency about 3.7 miles per kWh, so a lifetime energy usage of roughly 64
MWh. If you managed to use a home charger at 7p/kWh for that, we're talking
£4500 in lifetime fuel costs.

That car had frequent MoTs from 2020 (averaging 110 miles a day in the >> first year), so was used as a Taxi, and unlikely to be 7p/kWh.

If it has 160 miles range, and was used 110 miles a day, why wouldn't it have been charged overnight on a home charger?

Because there would have been days when the mileage was over 110 miles,
amd the driver(s) would want to pick up premium fares at night.

Well, they have a 160 mile 'tank', so doing over 110 is no problem. It
depends what kind of taxi they are - you wouldn't use that one for 200 mile airport runs, but for a central London minicab with 20mph speed limits everywhere 160 miles equates to 8 hours constantly doing the speed limit.

Some of the EV tariffs allow you to get discount rates at any time, not
just the middle of the night. But also many taxi drivers don't work night shifts.

I agree it's probably not been driven 7 days a week, but a short topup
during lunch/etc means that longer journeys can be done but still most of
the charge can be from overnight.

Theo

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On 15 Jun 2025 at 21:50:45 BST, Theo wrote:

The AA used to publish tables with the overall cost per mile. Fuel was
never a very large proportion.

Here's a chap who bought a 238,000 mile EV for £3000. It cost £200 in parts
to do all the fixes that needed doing due to that wear and tear, and took a couple of hours. The battery health is at 91% (original range was 160 miles).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97j1AOTKoKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey49-D_Tsyo

That is impressive. Even average mileage 5 year MG ZSs go for well under £10k.

Had a lift in one a few month's back. Very comfy and refined. Interior rather plasticky, and touch screen everything well beyond me. And the heater didn't seem to do a great deal, even when set to 23C.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

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On 15/06/2025 21:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 15/06/2025 in message <[email protected]> charles wrote:

when I started owning a car, petrol was just 5/- per gallon. Now it's
nearer £6.50.

3s 8d for me, I could fill my MG Midget (6 gallons) for £1.

It's not often that someone makes me feel young these days. Thanks guys!

(and yes, I know 5/- is 12.5p...)

Andy


--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.

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In article <1034fb9$7g0v$[email protected]>,
Vir Campestris <[email protected]d> wrote:

On 15/06/2025 21:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 15/06/2025 in message <[email protected]> charles wrote:

when I started owning a car, petrol was just 5/- per gallon. Now it's
nearer �6.50.

3s 8d for me, I could fill my MG Midget (6 gallons) for �1.

It's not often that someone makes me feel young these days. Thanks guys!

(and yes, I know 5/- is 12.5p...)

Andy

Really? 5/- = a quarter of �1 = 25p

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t�
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

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On 15/06/2025 21:50, Theo wrote:

Here's a chap who bought a 238,000 mile EV for £3000. It cost £200 in parts
to do all the fixes that needed doing due to that wear and tear, and took a couple of hours. The battery health is at 91% (original range was 160 miles).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97j1AOTKoKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey49-D_Tsyo

Servicing is just changing the pollen filter - no oil to change.
Obviously tyres and suspension stuff may still need doing from time to time.

Efficiency about 3.7 miles per kWh, so a lifetime energy usage of roughly 64 MWh. If you managed to use a home charger at 7p/kWh for that, we're talking £4500 in lifetime fuel costs.

If it was a petrol and got 60 mpg, that's 3967 gallons at £1.40 a litre, ie about £25000 in petrol costs.

Obviously not everyone drives that kind of miles, but it does show how electric makes sense on fuel costs alone. Insurance, tax, etc can be
assumed to be similar.

(if you use motorway chargers electricity is substantially more, but then so is petrol. Starting every day with a full 'tank' of electricity can reduce the amount you have to buy power when away from home)

It depends.

I do about 2000 miles a year in my car; my wife's is around the 10k mark
(we have no idea which of us does those miles)

The cost of capital for an electric car does not make sense for mine. It
might for her, and I am suggesting she should think about for her next
car - she wouldn't need long range. I'd probably have to get something
sensible instead of my aged sports car.

One of our sons does 20,000 miles a year. For him there is no question
but that electric is cheaper.

Andy

--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.

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On 20/06/2025 21:16, Vir Campestris wrote:

On 15/06/2025 21:50, Theo wrote:

Here's a chap who bought a 238,000 mile EV for £3000.  It cost £200 in
parts
to do all the fixes that needed doing due to that wear and tear, and
took a
couple of hours.  The battery health is at 91% (original range was 160
miles).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97j1AOTKoKc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey49-D_Tsyo

Servicing is just changing the pollen filter - no oil to change.
Obviously tyres and suspension stuff may still need doing from time to
time.

Efficiency about 3.7 miles per kWh, so a lifetime energy usage of
roughly 64
MWh.  If you managed to use a home charger at 7p/kWh for that, we're
talking
£4500 in lifetime fuel costs.

If it was a petrol and got 60 mpg, that's 3967 gallons at £1.40 a
litre, ie
about £25000 in petrol costs.

Obviously not everyone drives that kind of miles, but it does show how
electric makes sense on fuel costs alone.  Insurance, tax, etc can be
assumed to be similar.

(if you use motorway chargers electricity is substantially more, but
then so
is petrol.  Starting every day with a full 'tank' of electricity can
reduce
the amount you have to buy power when away from home)

It depends.

I do about 2000 miles a year in my car; my wife's is around the 10k mark
(we have no idea which of us does those miles)

The cost of capital for an electric car does not make sense for mine. It might for her, and I am suggesting she should think about for her next
car - she wouldn't need long range. I'd probably have to get something sensible instead of my aged sports car.

One of our sons does 20,000 miles a year. For him there is no question
but that electric is cheaper.

We've had an electric car for a bit over 2 years now and it is used
almost exclusively, although we do have a petrol car for holidays where charging may be problematic and long trips (especially if we get an
urgent family emergency in Ireland). However, the petrol car is doing so
few miles, that we are going to give that to our eldest son, when he
passes his test and its replacement, for our purposes, will be my 58
year old Land Rover ... as fuel costs for the low mileage are pretty immaterial.

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On 20/06/2025 21:30, charles wrote:

In article <1034fb9$7g0v$[email protected]>,
Vir Campestris <[email protected]d> wrote:

(and yes, I know 5/- is 12.5p...)

Andy

Really? 5/- = a quarter of £1 = 25p

OK, I don't remember the difference between half a crown and a crown any
more.

Andy

--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.

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