Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape
and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal
on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I
concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke
to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative
approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape
and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal
on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I
concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right
equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke
to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative
approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured post
as this :-)
--
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape
and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal
on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I
concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right
equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke
to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative
approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured post
as this :-)
--
job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
On 17/04/2025 18:39, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape
and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal
on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I
concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right
equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke >>>> to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative
approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured post >>> as this :-)
--
job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
But what did you achieve by removing cables from the earth?
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 10:35:45 +0100, ARW <[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 18:39, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape >>>>> and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing
terminal on the back box, and got some very helpful answers
whereupon I concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not
have the right equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a >>>>> neutral. I spoke to a local electrician this morning and he
suggested an alternative approach to allow the job to be done
visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos 2. Disconnect black
wire and terminate into a Wago 3. Replace metal switch with a
plastic one 4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured
post as this :-)
--
job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
But what did you achieve by removing cables from the earth?
As I thought I explained, there was no way of knowing if the black wire
was neutral or earth without specialist equipment / knowledge.
The electrician suggested it was therefore safer to isolate it from the
back box.
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 18:15:05 +0100, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 10:35:45 +0100, ARW <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 17/04/2025 18:39, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape >>>>>> and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing
terminal on the back box, and got some very helpful answers
whereupon I concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not
have the right equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a >>>>>> neutral. I spoke to a local electrician this morning and he
suggested an alternative approach to allow the job to be done
visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos 2. Disconnect black
wire and terminate into a Wago 3. Replace metal switch with a
plastic one 4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured
post as this :-)
--
job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
But what did you achieve by removing cables from the earth?
As I thought I explained, there was no way of knowing if the black wire
was neutral or earth without specialist equipment / knowledge.
The electrician suggested it was therefore safer to isolate it from the
back box.
Couldn't the electrician test it for you, he should have had the gear.?
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 10:35:45 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 18:39, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape >>>>> and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal >>>>> on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I
concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right >>>>> equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke >>>>> to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative
approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured post >>>> as this :-)
--
job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
But what did you achieve by removing cables from the earth?
As I thought I explained, there was no way of knowing if the black
wire was neutral or earth without specialist equipment / knowledge.
The electrician suggested it was therefore safer to isolate it from
the back box.
On 20/04/2025 18:15, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 10:35:45 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 18:39, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape >>>>>> and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal >>>>>> on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I
concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right >>>>>> equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke >>>>>> to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative >>>>>> approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured post >>>>> as this :-)
--
job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
But what did you achieve by removing cables from the earth?
As I thought I explained, there was no way of knowing if the black
wire was neutral or earth without specialist equipment / knowledge.
The electrician suggested it was therefore safer to isolate it from
the back box.
I didn't see the original post as I just pop into here now and again due
to work commitments.
However I did find this an interesting question that you asked.
It's very common and good practice to tie unused cores in cables to
earth (they should also be over sleeved with green/yellow). In this case
if the "neutral" is using the earth as return path then splitting it
from the earth would cause something not to work.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 11:09:31 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 20/04/2025 18:15, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 10:35:45 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 18:39, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the >>>>> job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape >>>>>>> and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal >>>>>>> on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I
concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right >>>>>>> equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke >>>>>>> to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative >>>>>>> approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured post >>>>>> as this :-)
--
But what did you achieve by removing cables from the earth?
As I thought I explained, there was no way of knowing if the black
wire was neutral or earth without specialist equipment / knowledge.
The electrician suggested it was therefore safer to isolate it from
the back box.
I didn't see the original post as I just pop into here now and again due
to work commitments.
However I did find this an interesting question that you asked.
It's very common and good practice to tie unused cores in cables to
earth (they should also be over sleeved with green/yellow). In this case
if the "neutral" is using the earth as return path then splitting it
from the earth would cause something not to work.
As far as I can see, the back box is earthed only by the black wire
(unless is it is attached to conduit, which does not seem to be the
case). I do not know where the black wire comes from so it seems to me
that I cannot exclude the possibility it is neutral unless I can prove
it is earth, which seems to be impossible without disconnecting the
neutral at the consumer unit, which I understand I am not allowed to
do. The suggestion of the electrician is that there is no need to do
this because isolating the steel box is just as good.
On 21/04/2025 13:53, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 11:09:31 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 20/04/2025 18:15, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 10:35:45 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 18:39, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the >>>>>> job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape >>>>>>>> and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal >>>>>>>> on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I >>>>>>>> concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right >>>>>>>> equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke >>>>>>>> to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative >>>>>>>> approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured post
as this :-)
--
But what did you achieve by removing cables from the earth?
As I thought I explained, there was no way of knowing if the black
wire was neutral or earth without specialist equipment / knowledge.
The electrician suggested it was therefore safer to isolate it from
the back box.
I didn't see the original post as I just pop into here now and again due >>> to work commitments.
However I did find this an interesting question that you asked.
It's very common and good practice to tie unused cores in cables to
earth (they should also be over sleeved with green/yellow). In this case >>> if the "neutral" is using the earth as return path then splitting it >>>from the earth would cause something not to work.
As far as I can see, the back box is earthed only by the black wire
(unless is it is attached to conduit, which does not seem to be the
case). I do not know where the black wire comes from so it seems to me
that I cannot exclude the possibility it is neutral unless I can prove
it is earth, which seems to be impossible without disconnecting the
neutral at the consumer unit, which I understand I am not allowed to
do. The suggestion of the electrician is that there is no need to do
this because isolating the steel box is just as good.
strange cable colours crop up unexpectedly where there is dual switching >(staircase lighting perhaps). They should be sleeved to denote the
actual use.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 11:09:31 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 20/04/2025 18:15, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 10:35:45 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 18:39, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the >>>>> job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape >>>>>>> and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal >>>>>>> on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I
concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right >>>>>>> equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke >>>>>>> to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative >>>>>>> approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured post >>>>>> as this :-)
--
But what did you achieve by removing cables from the earth?
As I thought I explained, there was no way of knowing if the black
wire was neutral or earth without specialist equipment / knowledge.
The electrician suggested it was therefore safer to isolate it from
the back box.
I didn't see the original post as I just pop into here now and again due
to work commitments.
However I did find this an interesting question that you asked.
It's very common and good practice to tie unused cores in cables to
earth (they should also be over sleeved with green/yellow). In this case
if the "neutral" is using the earth as return path then splitting it
from the earth would cause something not to work.
As far as I can see, the back box is earthed only by the black wire
(unless is it is attached to conduit, which does not seem to be the
case). I do not know where the black wire comes from so it seems to me
that I cannot exclude the possibility it is neutral unless I can prove
it is earth, which seems to be impossible without disconnecting the
neutral at the consumer unit, which I understand I am not allowed to
do.
The suggestion of the electrician is that there is no need to do
this because isolating the steel box is just as good.
On 21/04/2025 13:53, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 11:09:31 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 20/04/2025 18:15, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 10:35:45 +0100, ARW
<[email protected]> wrote:
On 17/04/2025 18:39, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:31:51 +0100, Peter Able <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>
On 17/04/2025 13:50, Scott wrote:That's because this is uk.d-i-y and I am not an engineer. Anyway, the >>>>>> job is now unengineeringly completed :-)
Some time ago I asked about two red wires wrapped in insulating tape >>>>>>>> and a black wire in a light switch connected to the earthing terminal >>>>>>>> on the back box, and got some very helpful answers whereupon I >>>>>>>> concluded this was one for an electrician as I do not have the right >>>>>>>> equipment to know if the black wire was an earth or a neutral. I spoke >>>>>>>> to a local electrician this morning and he suggested an alternative >>>>>>>> approach to allow the job to be done visually:
1. Terminate red wires into (separate) Wagos
2. Disconnect black wire and terminate into a Wago
3. Replace metal switch with a plastic one
4. Add grommet
This sounds good to me :-)
Sure is a while since I've read such an un-engineeringly-structured post
as this :-)
--
But what did you achieve by removing cables from the earth?
As I thought I explained, there was no way of knowing if the black
wire was neutral or earth without specialist equipment / knowledge.
The electrician suggested it was therefore safer to isolate it from
the back box.
I didn't see the original post as I just pop into here now and again due >>> to work commitments.
However I did find this an interesting question that you asked.
It's very common and good practice to tie unused cores in cables to
earth (they should also be over sleeved with green/yellow). In this case >>> if the "neutral" is using the earth as return path then splitting it >>>from the earth would cause something not to work.
As far as I can see, the back box is earthed only by the black wire
(unless is it is attached to conduit, which does not seem to be the
case). I do not know where the black wire comes from so it seems to me
that I cannot exclude the possibility it is neutral unless I can prove
it is earth, which seems to be impossible without disconnecting the
neutral at the consumer unit, which I understand I am not allowed to
do.
Who says?
The suggestion of the electrician is that there is no need to do
this because isolating the steel box is just as good.
It's a fudge. An isolated steel box may be acceptable but not ideal.
Place a bulb between live and your black wire. If nothing happens then
your black wire is floating. If the light is powered then the black wire
is neutral.
If your RCD is activated then it is most likely an earth or
a borrowed neutral depending on your consumer unit and circuit arrangement.
My money is that it's a neutral which I would terminate with a Wago or
choc block.
I would attach the cable to the back box only if I am satisfied it is an >earth.
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 21:57:54 +0100, Fredxx <[email protected]d>
wrote:
I would attach the cable to the back box only if I am satisfied it is an
earth.
This is exactly what I have done.
On 22/04/2025 10:42, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2025 21:57:54 +0100, Fredxx <[email protected]d>
wrote:
I would attach the cable to the back box only if I am satisfied it is an >>> earth.
This is exactly what I have done.
So, who wrote:
"I do not have the right equipment to know if the black wire was an
earth or a neutral."
"As I thought I explained, there was no way of knowing if the black
wire was neutral or earth without specialist equipment / knowledge."?
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