Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be >mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100
Peter Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.
Davey wrote:
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing
USB is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to
control them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves
off if unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated
similarly, I would think. Several years of even a trickle current
would add up to a lot of power.
There's a difference between "off" and "standby", the latter is
better now than it used to be, but just because your washing machine
has no LEDs lit, don't think it's completely off ...
That's why I always switch it off at the socket when I am done with it.
Ditto the dryer, the microwave oven, the electric cooking oven, the
bedroom TV set, etc etc. If it can be brought back to life by pressing
a button, then it's still using power.
On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 09:34:01 +0100
Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
Davey wrote:
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing
USB is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to
control them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves
off if unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I would think. Several years of even a trickle current
would add up to a lot of power.
There's a difference between "off" and "standby", the latter is
better now than it used to be, but just because your washing machine
has no LEDs lit, don't think it's completely off ...
That's why I always switch it off at the socket when I am done with
it. Ditto the dryer, the microwave oven, the electric cooking oven,
the bedroom TV set, etc etc. If it can be brought back to life by
pressing a button, then it's still using power. I could also turn off
the living room TV set, but it's too much hassle to reach the switch
behind all the equipment, and I need to leave the Humax on standby. I
leave the dishwasher on standby, but that's because I need to be a contortionist to get to the mains switch.
All in all, I try my best.
On 10/04/2025 09:28, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100
Peter Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days
reminded me that when they first came available a fww years ago
someone on here was certain that they would be the cause of great
conflagrations. I haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has
anyone? They seem to be mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix
for casual purchase. Some of them even have 3amp USB c ports for
faster phone charging.
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing
USB is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to
control them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves
off if unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated
similarly, I would think. Several years of even a trickle current
would add up to a lot of power.
More like over several centuries. Switched Mode PSUs such as the ones
in these adapt to the load. Under no load the current is incredibly
low. I checked the British General data sheets and for the "bog
standard" double 13amp socket with 2 x USB A outputs the standby
consumption is quoted as <100 milliwatts. So assuming 0.1Watts that
is 1Kwh every 10,000 hours. There are only 8760 hours in a year that
is less than 1 unit per year.
So assuming you are on the Price Cap of 25p/unit you would need I
think around 15 for 25p/month or 60 to make your bill £1/month more expensive.
I would guess the bigger units may have more, I think they probably
conform to the EU limit of 0.5W but Switched Mode PSUs can behave in
an non-intuitive manner. The adapt very well to both input and output
load. So reducing the mains voltage has no effect on power
consumption. They just take more current to compensate.
Of course, the usual caveats apply. Most ohe energy used will be
converted to heat so reducing your winter bill by a few pounds, but
in summer increasing your AirCon load....
Dave
On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 10:59:57 +0100
Davey <[email protected]d> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 09:34:01 +0100
Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
Davey wrote:
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when
nothing USB is connected, or is there some kind of switching
mechanism to control them? Washing machines etc are required to
shut themselves off if unattended for some time, these sockets
should be treated similarly, I would think. Several years of
even a trickle current would add up to a lot of power.
There's a difference between "off" and "standby", the latter is
better now than it used to be, but just because your washing
machine has no LEDs lit, don't think it's completely off ...
That's why I always switch it off at the socket when I am done with
it. Ditto the dryer, the microwave oven, the electric cooking oven,
the bedroom TV set, etc etc. If it can be brought back to life by
pressing a button, then it's still using power. I could also turn
off the living room TV set, but it's too much hassle to reach the
switch behind all the equipment, and I need to leave the Humax on
standby. I leave the dishwasher on standby, but that's because I
need to be a contortionist to get to the mains switch.
All in all, I try my best.
Thanks, that's worth knowing. Tell Mad Ed, though, and see if he
listens!
On 10/04/2025 10:59, Davey wrote:
That's why I always switch it off at the socket when I am done with it.
Ditto the dryer, the microwave oven, the electric cooking oven, the
bedroom TV set, etc etc. If it can be brought back to life by pressing
a button, then it's still using power.
Depends on the button
Typical standby currents these days are the order of microamps
"The phantom power drawn from USB ports is about 0.05 watts (W) when
nothing is plugged in"
So about 400Wh per year.
Or less than 15p even at today's inflated 'green energy' rates
And at least a third of that you get back in terms of useful heating
compared to typical gas or heat pump costs
Just drink one less cup of tea per year. Problem solved.
Switching off everything on standby is a typical ArtStudent response. As
is half filling the kettle
Try not having a shower every day, Save far more
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they want
to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know
whether the latter was worthwhile.)
Max Demian wrote:So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they want
to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know
whether the latter was worthwhile.)
Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.
Joe wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they
want to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I
don't know whether the latter was worthwhile.)
Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all
otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the
lightning would have harmlessly dribbled out of the socket and soaked
into the carpet!?
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100
Peter Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.
the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know whether the
latter was worthwhile.)
Peter Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in >news:[email protected]:
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
I see obsolescence and reliability to be more of an issue than fire safety.
Now that USB type C is set to be the norm (at both ends) I can see early >adopters of ones with type A (rectangular outlets) kicking themselves as >fewer and fewer people use the annoyingly polarised connectors. The same
will apply as newer high spec charging outputs become the norm.
Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
Joe wrote:
Max Demian wrote:So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the lightning would have harmlessly dribbled out of the socket and
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they
want to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I
don't know whether the latter was worthwhile.)
Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all
otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.
soaked into the carpet!?
When I was young Dad used to remove the lead when a storm approached,
we were an isolated dwelling and just about at the top of a hill* so reasonably vulnerable to lightning strikes.
The aerial arrangement was a typical 1950’s VHF installation where
the coax ran down the roof and came in through a hole drilled in a
wooden window frame and terminated in an aerial socket mounted
on the inside of the window frame, from there five or six feet of
aerial fly lead plugged into the socket and down to the TV. The
actual aerial was very large as when it went up there was no
official ITV contractor for the region but Dad found he could using
the large aerial just about receive ITV from the adjoining area
whose franchise was in operation. This meant there was a large
amount of metal sitting on a tall pole some feet above the chimney.
As a storm approached he removed the fly lead but pulled it out of
the socket rather than the TV, as was often the case once the storm
came close the electricity went off so the old oil lamp was ready
on the table by the Window, Mother decided to sit at the table . Soon
after as the sky darkened an arc of electricity flew out of the
socket and hit the metalwork of the oil lamp about a yard away, next
stop would have been Mother and she was suitably startled.
I don’t think it could have been a direct strike as there was no
damage that could be noticed, perhaps a charge had built up on the
aerial or it had grounded the cloud that was now around us before it
built up too much charge to be a full strike but anyway after that
Dad always removed the plug from the telly and let it lie on the
floor so any charge had far less distance to cross.
* SWEBs. pole mounted transformer in the adjoining field was
fractionally higher , they have lost two to lightning that I am aware
of with some rewiring the house needed afterwards.
GH
Joe wrote:
Max Demian wrote:So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they want
to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know
whether the latter was worthwhile.)
Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.
lightning would have harmlessly dribbled out of the socket and soaked
into the carpet!?
All in all, I try my best.
On 10/04/2025 09:28, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100
Peter Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.
Yes, they use power all the time, but it's so little, it's not worth bothering about - one, just like a plug-in charger, might cost 22p a
year! 0.1W, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, 25p a unit.
It's interesting in that some things you use sparingly may take more energy in standby than in use. eg in this example (46m00): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOK5xkFijPc
the microwave may take more energy to run the clock over the course of a
year than is used in cooking the food. 0.7W for the clock is equivalent to microwaving something for 36 seconds every day, and some microwaves don't
get used that much.
SteveW <[email protected]> wrote:
On 10/04/2025 09:28, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 05 Apr 2025 15:11:48 +0100
Peter Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded >>>> me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here >>>> was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be >>>> mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
Do these things use a little power all the time, even when nothing USB
is connected, or is there some kind of switching mechanism to control
them? Washing machines etc are required to shut themselves off if
unattended for some time, these sockets should be treated similarly, I
would think. Several years of even a trickle current would add up to
a lot of power.
Yes, they use power all the time, but it's so little, it's not worth
bothering about - one, just like a plug-in charger, might cost 22p a
year! 0.1W, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, 25p a unit.
It's interesting in that some things you use sparingly may take more energy in standby than in use. eg in this example (46m00): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOK5xkFijPc
the microwave may take more energy to run the clock over the course of a
year than is used in cooking the food. 0.7W for the clock is equivalent to microwaving something for 36 seconds every day, and some microwaves don't
get used that much.
Since the total amount of energy is small it's not a big overall part of
your consumption. But it does make the point that a small number for a long time can exceed a large number for a short time.
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
On 05/04/2025 15:11, Peter Johnson wrote:
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
I was at a wine party, Gen-z folks working for HR admin that would not
know how to wire a plug.
Between a bunch of giggly girls the topic casually floated onto these
USB sockets.
"oh, I changed all mine in the kitchen"
"put the power off, undid the screws, undid the wires, popped the new
one in"
"easy, child of six can do it"
"don't pay an electrician"
How tight do ye think the connections were remade?
Was there still an functioning ring?
On 05/04/2025 15:11, Peter Johnson wrote:
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days reminded
me that when they first came available a fww years ago someone on here
was certain that they would be the cause of great conflagrations. I
haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has anyone? They seem to be
mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix for casual purchase. Some
of them even have 3amp USB c ports for faster phone charging.
I was at a wine party, Gen-z folks working for HR admin that would not
know how to wire a plug.
Between a bunch of giggly girls the topic casually floated onto these
USB sockets.
"oh, I changed all mine in the kitchen"
"put the power off, undid the screws, undid the wires, popped the new
one in"
"easy, child of six can do it"
"don't pay an electrician"
How tight do ye think the connections were remade?
Was there still an functioning ring?
Adrian Caspersz <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 05/04/2025 15:11, Peter Johnson wrote:
Installing several more of these over the last couple of days
reminded me that when they first came available a fww years ago
someone on here was certain that they would be the cause of great
conflagrations. I haven't heard of any fires caused by them. Has
anyone? They seem to be mainstream now, even displayed in Screwfix
for casual purchase. Some of them even have 3amp USB c ports for
faster phone charging.
I was at a wine party, Gen-z folks working for HR admin that would
not know how to wire a plug.
Between a bunch of giggly girls the topic casually floated onto
these USB sockets.
"oh, I changed all mine in the kitchen"
"put the power off, undid the screws, undid the wires, popped the
new one in"
"easy, child of six can do it"
"don't pay an electrician"
How tight do ye think the connections were remade?
Was there still an functioning ring?
Not all younger people are stupid even though older people like to
think they are as they feel threatened.
One thing I have noticed is that many younger people will turn to
something like You tube
where it is possible to find out how to do something ,a resource
that was not around when I was their age. Obviously the information provided could be suspect but changing 13 amp outlets to those with
USB sockets is one of the more common ones so viewing a few should
show best practise. Where problems could arise is when the law of sod
strikes where wires are too short for an easy swap
or previous bodges like the wrong polarity come to light. That is
when a few years of experience under the belt becomes useful in both recognising and solving issues.
Not all younger people are stupid even though older people like to think
they are as they feel threatened.
One thing I have noticed is that many younger people will turn to something like You tube
where it is possible to find out how to do something ,a resource that was not around when I was their age. Obviously the information provided could be suspect but changing 13 amp outlets to those with USB sockets is one of the more common ones so viewing a few should show best practise.
Where problems could arise is when the law of sod strikes where wires are
too short for an easy swap or previous bodges like the wrong polarity come
to light. That is when a few years of experience under the belt becomes useful in both recognising and solving issues.
On Thu, 10 Apr 2025 14:31:58 +0100
Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
Joe wrote:
Max Demian wrote:So, if the aerial had been unplugged from the TV, do you think the
For years after, people continued to unplug their TVs when they
want to bed - and the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I
don't know whether the latter was worthwhile.)
Very worthwhile if the aerial ever got a strike, not at all
otherwise.
[snip tale of destruction]
Funny stuff, lightning.
lightning would have harmlessly dribbled out of the socket and soaked
into the carpet!?
No, it would need to be moved some distance away and preferably the
mains plug removed. But presumably that would have reduced the
attractiveness of the aerial itself, inside the loft of the adjacent
house and no longer being at earth potential, and the lightning
offshoot may not have happened or at least been much weaker.
As I said, funny stuff. I'm aware of a somewhat local case of a
lightning offshoot *leaving* an earthed lightning conductor at a
right-angle bend. The moral being, don't route a lightning conductor to >ground through any sharp bends. Points at high potential have a very
high electrostatic gradient with respect to the rest of the world, and
charge is more likely to leak in or out of them. Hence the charge
collector of a Van de Graaf generator being as near a sphere as is
possible, with no sharp bits.
On 10/04/2025 12:36, Max Demian wrote:
the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know whether the
latter was worthwhile.)
It's very unlikely, but yes. a strike to an antenna could be as
disastrous as my strike on the telephone drop wire
In article <vt8lme$36njq$[email protected]>, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> scribeth thus
On 10/04/2025 12:36, Max Demian wrote:
the aerial in case of a lightning strike. (I don't know whether the
latter was worthwhile.)
It's very unlikely, but yes. a strike to an antenna could be as
disastrous as my strike on the telephone drop wire
Aren't you all fibre there now?..
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