• Does this water heater need a 'safety valve'?

    From Chris Green@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 3 11:20:38 2025
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    However the instructions don't say whether a 'pressure relief' device
    is mandatory, they just say "Some countries may require the use of
    hydraulic special safety devices". It hasn't been supplied with one
    and the similar heaters I have installed in the UK don't have one,
    they just specifiy how much inlet pipe there must be before a tap
    (i.e. space for expansion back down the pipe).

    I will be installing with flexible reinforced PVC on the inlet side
    (pretty standard for a boat) so I'm pretty sure a pressure relief
    isn't necessary but can anyone confirm this?

    Thanks for any help.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Thu Apr 3 13:27:32 2025
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    However the instructions don't say whether a 'pressure relief' device
    is mandatory, they just say "Some countries may require the use of
    hydraulic special safety devices". It hasn't been supplied with one
    and the similar heaters I have installed in the UK don't have one,
    they just specifiy how much inlet pipe there must be before a tap
    (i.e. space for expansion back down the pipe).

    I will be installing with flexible reinforced PVC on the inlet side
    (pretty standard for a boat) so I'm pretty sure a pressure relief
    isn't necessary but can anyone confirm this?

    Thanks for any help.

    From the installation manual at:

    https://library.ariston.co.uk/document/download/65189033/b0231-aad72-4fa53-0dcfb-8b4b3-c76ad-60572-bea36

    When water is heated it expands, in a small unvented water heater of
    this type the expansion can normally be accommodated back into the cold
    water mains (not model 30L).

    Where this is not possible the installer will need to fit a set of cold
    water controls.

    Note: If a valve i.e. a non return valve, water meter, pressure reducing
    valve or any type of valve or fitting that acts as a non return valve is installed on the cold water mains, this will prevent expansion.
    Therefore it will be necessary to install an expansion vessel (see pages
    10 figs 2 & 3).

    Note: If in doubt always install a pressure reducing valve (limited to
    3.5bar) and expansion vessel.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Lee@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Thu Apr 3 13:50:57 2025
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    Anything for the UK market, and has a water volume of under 15 litres,
    should be self contained, and have all relevant safety devices fitted internally.
    Above 15 litres is subject to the G3 Building Regualtions notification,
    and should only be fitted by a competent person who has passed the G3
    course.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Fredxx on Thu Apr 3 17:06:09 2025
    Fredxx <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    However the instructions don't say whether a 'pressure relief' device
    is mandatory, they just say "Some countries may require the use of hydraulic special safety devices". It hasn't been supplied with one
    and the similar heaters I have installed in the UK don't have one,
    they just specifiy how much inlet pipe there must be before a tap
    (i.e. space for expansion back down the pipe).

    I will be installing with flexible reinforced PVC on the inlet side
    (pretty standard for a boat) so I'm pretty sure a pressure relief
    isn't necessary but can anyone confirm this?

    Thanks for any help.

    From the installation manual at:

    https://library.ariston.co.uk/document/download/65189033/b0231-aad72-4fa53-0dcfb-8b4b3-c76ad-60572-bea36


    When water is heated it expands, in a small unvented water heater of
    this type the expansion can normally be accommodated back into the cold
    water mains (not model 30L).

    Where this is not possible the installer will need to fit a set of cold
    water controls.

    Note: If a valve i.e. a non return valve, water meter, pressure reducing valve or any type of valve or fitting that acts as a non return valve is installed on the cold water mains, this will prevent expansion.
    Therefore it will be necessary to install an expansion vessel (see pages
    10 figs 2 & 3).

    Note: If in doubt always install a pressure reducing valve (limited to 3.5bar) and expansion vessel.

    None of which addresses my question, is a pressure relief valve needed?

    This is not an expansion vessel or a pressure reduction valve.


    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Alan Lee on Thu Apr 3 17:07:43 2025
    Alan Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    Anything for the UK market, and has a water volume of under 15 litres,
    should be self contained, and have all relevant safety devices fitted internally.
    Above 15 litres is subject to the G3 Building Regualtions notification,
    and should only be fitted by a competent person who has passed the G3
    course.

    Ah, thank you, this is under 15 litres so should be 'self contained'.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marland@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Thu Apr 3 18:31:25 2025
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    Alan Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1 >>>
    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    Anything for the UK market, and has a water volume of under 15 litres,
    should be self contained, and have all relevant safety devices fitted
    internally.
    Above 15 litres is subject to the G3 Building Regualtions notification,
    and should only be fitted by a competent person who has passed the G3
    course.

    Ah, thank you, this is under 15 litres so should be 'self contained'.


    Unlike this larger one which sunk the boat. <https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c714ced915d4c100000f3/fleur-de-lys.pdf>

    GH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Fri Apr 4 00:14:25 2025
    On 03/04/2025 17:06, Chris Green wrote:
    Fredxx <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    However the instructions don't say whether a 'pressure relief' device
    is mandatory, they just say "Some countries may require the use of
    hydraulic special safety devices". It hasn't been supplied with one
    and the similar heaters I have installed in the UK don't have one,
    they just specifiy how much inlet pipe there must be before a tap
    (i.e. space for expansion back down the pipe).

    I will be installing with flexible reinforced PVC on the inlet side
    (pretty standard for a boat) so I'm pretty sure a pressure relief
    isn't necessary but can anyone confirm this?

    Thanks for any help.

    From the installation manual at:

    https://library.ariston.co.uk/document/download/65189033/b0231-aad72-4fa53-0dcfb-8b4b3-c76ad-60572-bea36


    When water is heated it expands, in a small unvented water heater of
    this type the expansion can normally be accommodated back into the cold
    water mains (not model 30L).

    Where this is not possible the installer will need to fit a set of cold
    water controls.

    Note: If a valve i.e. a non return valve, water meter, pressure reducing
    valve or any type of valve or fitting that acts as a non return valve is
    installed on the cold water mains, this will prevent expansion.
    Therefore it will be necessary to install an expansion vessel (see pages
    10 figs 2 & 3).

    Note: If in doubt always install a pressure reducing valve (limited to
    3.5bar) and expansion vessel.

    None of which addresses my question, is a pressure relief valve needed?

    This is not an expansion vessel or a pressure reduction valve.

    It does address your question by saying that expansion can either be
    absorbed by pipework under certain conditions or using an expansion vessel.

    I can assure you I never said your unvented heater was an expansion
    vessel and don't understand the basis of your post. You might consider
    getting a professional in if you believe the installation instructions
    don't recommend the use of an expansion vessel or a pressure reduction
    valve.

    If a pressure relief valve was recommended we can be certain the
    manufacturers would have specified one in their instructions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Fredxx on Fri Apr 4 07:58:17 2025
    Fredxx <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 17:06, Chris Green wrote:
    Fredxx <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    However the instructions don't say whether a 'pressure relief' device
    is mandatory, they just say "Some countries may require the use of
    hydraulic special safety devices". It hasn't been supplied with one
    and the similar heaters I have installed in the UK don't have one,
    they just specifiy how much inlet pipe there must be before a tap
    (i.e. space for expansion back down the pipe).

    I will be installing with flexible reinforced PVC on the inlet side
    (pretty standard for a boat) so I'm pretty sure a pressure relief
    isn't necessary but can anyone confirm this?

    Thanks for any help.

    From the installation manual at:

    https://library.ariston.co.uk/document/download/65189033/b0231-aad72-4fa53-0dcfb-8b4b3-c76ad-60572-bea36



    When water is heated it expands, in a small unvented water heater of
    this type the expansion can normally be accommodated back into the cold
    water mains (not model 30L).

    Where this is not possible the installer will need to fit a set of cold
    water controls.

    Note: If a valve i.e. a non return valve, water meter, pressure reducing >> valve or any type of valve or fitting that acts as a non return valve is >> installed on the cold water mains, this will prevent expansion.
    Therefore it will be necessary to install an expansion vessel (see pages >> 10 figs 2 & 3).

    Note: If in doubt always install a pressure reducing valve (limited to
    3.5bar) and expansion vessel.

    None of which addresses my question, is a pressure relief valve needed?

    This is not an expansion vessel or a pressure reduction valve.

    It does address your question by saying that expansion can either be
    absorbed by pipework under certain conditions or using an expansion vessel.

    I can assure you I never said your unvented heater was an expansion
    vessel and don't understand the basis of your post. You might consider getting a professional in if you believe the installation instructions
    don't recommend the use of an expansion vessel or a pressure reduction
    valve.

    If a pressure relief valve was recommended we can be certain the manufacturers would have specified one in their instructions.

    But that's the whole problem, they don't. As I quoted before all they
    say is:-

    Some countries may require the use of hydraulic special safety
    devices: the installer must check the suitability of the safety
    device he tends to us.

    I am happy that I have enough expansion available in the incoming cold
    pipework but there isn't a definitive yes/no requirement for the
    pressure relief.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Marland on Fri Apr 4 08:07:04 2025
    Marland <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    Alan Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    Anything for the UK market, and has a water volume of under 15 litres,
    should be self contained, and have all relevant safety devices fitted
    internally.
    Above 15 litres is subject to the G3 Building Regualtions notification,
    and should only be fitted by a competent person who has passed the G3
    course.

    Ah, thank you, this is under 15 litres so should be 'self contained'.


    Unlike this larger one which sunk the boat. <https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c714ced915d4c100000f3/fleur-de-lys.pdf>

    Coo! :-), or maybe :-(, at least all those on board were rescued OK.
    It's not that much bigger than our boat, 17m as opposed to 11m,
    however the hot water system was 120 litres as opposed to our puny 10
    litre one. No wonder there was a big bang!

    Still, I think I want to be on the safe side with ours. The old (also
    10 litre) under sink water heater had started leaking so needed to be
    replaced and the Ariston seemed the closest match. I can simply use
    the pressure relief valve from the old system I think, that will be
    fairly easy to do.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nib@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Fri Apr 4 09:29:17 2025
    On 2025-04-04 08:07, Chris Green wrote:
    Marland <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    Alan Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    Anything for the UK market, and has a water volume of under 15 litres, >>>> should be self contained, and have all relevant safety devices fitted
    internally.
    Above 15 litres is subject to the G3 Building Regualtions notification, >>>> and should only be fitted by a competent person who has passed the G3
    course.

    Ah, thank you, this is under 15 litres so should be 'self contained'.


    Unlike this larger one which sunk the boat.
    <https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c714ced915d4c100000f3/fleur-de-lys.pdf>

    Coo! :-), or maybe :-(, at least all those on board were rescued OK.
    It's not that much bigger than our boat, 17m as opposed to 11m,
    however the hot water system was 120 litres as opposed to our puny 10
    litre one. No wonder there was a big bang!

    Still, I think I want to be on the safe side with ours. The old (also
    10 litre) under sink water heater had started leaking so needed to be replaced and the Ariston seemed the closest match. I can simply use
    the pressure relief valve from the old system I think, that will be
    fairly easy to do.


    What is feeding it with cold water? Is this the boat's water pump? If so
    that presumably has no possibility of backwards flow to accept
    expansion. Boats sometimes have an accumulator on the output of the
    water pump to prevent rapid cycling and random pulsing when not being
    used due to slight leakage. That would presumably accept considerable expansion?

    nib

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to nib on Fri Apr 4 09:58:18 2025
    nib <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025-04-04 08:07, Chris Green wrote:
    Marland <[email protected]> wrote:
    Chris Green <[email protected]> wrote:
    Alan Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the >>>>> basics.

    Anything for the UK market, and has a water volume of under 15 litres, >>>> should be self contained, and have all relevant safety devices fitted >>>> internally.
    Above 15 litres is subject to the G3 Building Regualtions notification, >>>> and should only be fitted by a competent person who has passed the G3 >>>> course.

    Ah, thank you, this is under 15 litres so should be 'self contained'.


    Unlike this larger one which sunk the boat.
    <https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c714ced915d4c100000f3/fleur-de-lys.pdf>

    Coo! :-), or maybe :-(, at least all those on board were rescued OK.
    It's not that much bigger than our boat, 17m as opposed to 11m,
    however the hot water system was 120 litres as opposed to our puny 10
    litre one. No wonder there was a big bang!

    Still, I think I want to be on the safe side with ours. The old (also
    10 litre) under sink water heater had started leaking so needed to be replaced and the Ariston seemed the closest match. I can simply use
    the pressure relief valve from the old system I think, that will be
    fairly easy to do.


    What is feeding it with cold water? Is this the boat's water pump? If so
    that presumably has no possibility of backwards flow to accept
    expansion. Boats sometimes have an accumulator on the output of the
    water pump to prevent rapid cycling and random pulsing when not being
    used due to slight leakage. That would presumably accept considerable expansion?

    It's all flexible (i.e. braided PVC) pipe between the pump and the
    water heater, several metres of it, so there's loads of expansion
    capacity. There's enough expansion for the pump not to cycle on and
    off during use and it only mutters to itself once every several hours.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Fri Apr 4 11:38:14 2025
    On 04/04/2025 07:58, Chris Green wrote:
    Fredxx <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 17:06, Chris Green wrote:
    Fredxx <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:20, Chris Green wrote:
    I am replacing the water heater in my boat. The new one is an
    "Ariston BLU EVO RS 10U BM EU", it's this one:-

    https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08HZXYYS3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

    The installtion instructions come in lots of languages, including
    English. I've installed very similar ones in the UK so I know the
    basics.

    However the instructions don't say whether a 'pressure relief' device >>>>> is mandatory, they just say "Some countries may require the use of
    hydraulic special safety devices". It hasn't been supplied with one >>>>> and the similar heaters I have installed in the UK don't have one,
    they just specifiy how much inlet pipe there must be before a tap
    (i.e. space for expansion back down the pipe).

    I will be installing with flexible reinforced PVC on the inlet side
    (pretty standard for a boat) so I'm pretty sure a pressure relief
    isn't necessary but can anyone confirm this?

    Thanks for any help.

    From the installation manual at:

    https://library.ariston.co.uk/document/download/65189033/b0231-aad72-4fa53-0dcfb-8b4b3-c76ad-60572-bea36



    When water is heated it expands, in a small unvented water heater of
    this type the expansion can normally be accommodated back into the cold >>>> water mains (not model 30L).

    Where this is not possible the installer will need to fit a set of cold >>>> water controls.

    Note: If a valve i.e. a non return valve, water meter, pressure reducing >>>> valve or any type of valve or fitting that acts as a non return valve is >>>> installed on the cold water mains, this will prevent expansion.
    Therefore it will be necessary to install an expansion vessel (see pages >>>> 10 figs 2 & 3).

    Note: If in doubt always install a pressure reducing valve (limited to >>>> 3.5bar) and expansion vessel.

    None of which addresses my question, is a pressure relief valve needed?

    This is not an expansion vessel or a pressure reduction valve.

    It does address your question by saying that expansion can either be
    absorbed by pipework under certain conditions or using an expansion vessel. >>
    I can assure you I never said your unvented heater was an expansion
    vessel and don't understand the basis of your post. You might consider
    getting a professional in if you believe the installation instructions
    don't recommend the use of an expansion vessel or a pressure reduction
    valve.

    If a pressure relief valve was recommended we can be certain the
    manufacturers would have specified one in their instructions.

    But that's the whole problem, they don't. As I quoted before all they
    say is:-

    Some countries may require the use of hydraulic special safety
    devices: the installer must check the suitability of the safety
    device he tends to us.

    I am happy that I have enough expansion available in the incoming cold pipework but there isn't a definitive yes/no requirement for the
    pressure relief.

    I don't understand your argument why you would even need a pressure
    relief valve?

    If you're desperate to fit one then do.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)