• OTish: Trump Tariffs

    From RJH@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 3 10:10:29 2025
    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?

    There's likely to be a glut of tat coming our way from Aliexpress, Temu and
    the like, especially as the US duty free limit ($800) has been removed. And half-decent branded tools, cars, materials either sitting it out, or flooding more receptive markets?

    Or best not worth indulging the whole thing and carry on as usual?

    * and, what a surprise, they're not 'reciprocal' tariffs at all: https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1907672322988740999

    --
    Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RJH@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Apr 3 10:24:22 2025
    On 3 Apr 2025 at 11:17:43 BST, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 11:10, RJH wrote:
    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he
    doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?

    There's likely to be a glut of tat coming our way from Aliexpress, Temu and >> the like, especially as the US duty free limit ($800) has been removed. And >> half-decent branded tools, cars, materials either sitting it out, or flooding
    more receptive markets?

    Or best not worth indulging the whole thing and carry on as usual?

    * and, what a surprise, they're not 'reciprocal' tariffs at all:
    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1907672322988740999

    It has always been damn near impossible to import from the USA as an individual without paying shitloads of money on handling fees and VAT.
    I gave up years ago, Aliexpress just sends it by post and I use it all
    the time, and not all of it is tat.

    EU was always hard to import from but there inst much in the EU that I
    wanted to import anyway. As an individual.

    It will be interesting to see how much stuff is imported into the UK
    from the EU and sent to the USA b branded as made in Britain (well the sticker is anyway)...

    Yes - he's effectively reduced the offshoring the Chinese and many others got quite crafty at with the blanket 10%. So a lot of stuff might hop off our shores (and a few penguin islands) into the 'States . . .
    --
    Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Theo on Thu Apr 3 12:15:26 2025
    On 03/04/2025 12:00, Theo wrote:
    EU was simple, pre-Brexit.

    No,. it wasnt. The postal services in many EU countries were corrupt to nonexisitent., Parcels simply vanished.


    Nowadays I tend to get stuff from companies who
    have sorted out the customs logistics and they have a pan-European distribution network.

    Last year in addition to China, I got some old new stock from Australia,
    no problems, and some ditto stuff from a French ebay seller, who as far
    as I can see simply put it in a jiffy bag and posted it.

    I did import a Fender voice coil from the USA. Expensive but not too bad
    time wise.

    Despite the EU international trade seems to go on.

    --
    "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
    true: it is true because it is powerful."

    Lucas Bergkamp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to RJH on Thu Apr 3 11:17:43 2025
    On 03/04/2025 11:10, RJH wrote:
    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?

    There's likely to be a glut of tat coming our way from Aliexpress, Temu and the like, especially as the US duty free limit ($800) has been removed. And half-decent branded tools, cars, materials either sitting it out, or flooding more receptive markets?

    Or best not worth indulging the whole thing and carry on as usual?

    * and, what a surprise, they're not 'reciprocal' tariffs at all: https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1907672322988740999

    It has always been damn near impossible to import from the USA as an
    individual without paying shitloads of money on handling fees and VAT.
    I gave up years ago, Aliexpress just sends it by post and I use it all
    the time, and not all of it is tat.

    EU was always hard to import from but there inst much in the EU that I
    wanted to import anyway. As an individual.

    It will be interesting to see how much stuff is imported into the UK
    from the EU and sent to the USA b branded as made in Britain (well the
    sticker is anyway)...

    --
    Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
    name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
    or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
    logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
    the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
    face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

    Ayn Rand.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Apr 3 12:00:50 2025
    The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 11:10, RJH wrote:
    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he
    doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?

    There's likely to be a glut of tat coming our way from Aliexpress, Temu and the like, especially as the US duty free limit ($800) has been removed. And half-decent branded tools, cars, materials either sitting it out, or flooding
    more receptive markets?

    Or best not worth indulging the whole thing and carry on as usual?

    * and, what a surprise, they're not 'reciprocal' tariffs at all: https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1907672322988740999

    It has always been damn near impossible to import from the USA as an individual without paying shitloads of money on handling fees and VAT.
    I gave up years ago, Aliexpress just sends it by post and I use it all
    the time, and not all of it is tat.

    I've imported a bunch of stuff from the US using a forwarding service, it's super easy. The problems are that:

    1. The sender often wants to use USPS which is convenient for them but has ridiculous international shipping fees
    2. The sender doesn't want to get involved in international transactions so sends it like a local parcel. The parcel gets stuck at customs waiting for
    you to pay the import VAT and you have to pay a tenner to the courier on
    top.

    If they use another service like DHL and send it Delivery Duty Paid, the VAT
    is paid upfront and it arrives smoothly like a UK parcel.

    The forwarding services know how to do that, and they give the sender a US address (in a sales tax free state) to send the parcel to via USPS, then collect the VAT and send the parcel to the UK. It often costs less all-in
    than USPS would charge.

    EU was always hard to import from but there inst much in the EU that I
    wanted to import anyway. As an individual.

    EU was simple, pre-Brexit. Nowadays I tend to get stuff from companies who have sorted out the customs logistics and they have a pan-European
    distribution network.

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 3 12:28:40 2025
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 10:10:29 -0000 (UTC), RJH <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he >doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?

    There's likely to be a glut of tat coming our way from Aliexpress, Temu and >the like, especially as the US duty free limit ($800) has been removed. And >half-decent branded tools, cars, materials either sitting it out, or flooding >more receptive markets?

    Or best not worth indulging the whole thing and carry on as usual?

    * and, what a surprise, they're not 'reciprocal' tariffs at all: >https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1907672322988740999

    I have just Googled general sales tax in the USA. I see there is no
    federal sales tax and the five states with the highest average
    combined state and local sales tax rates are Louisiana (9.56 percent), Tennessee (9.55 percent), Arkansas (9.45 percent), Washington (9.38
    percent), and Alabama (9.29 percent). On that basis, if you add the
    Trump tariff, the total should still be lower than our 20% VAT. Am I
    missing something?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 3 12:30:00 2025
    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 12:28:40 +0100, Scott
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/2024-sales-taxes/

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  • From Peter Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 3 14:10:05 2025
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 10:10:29 -0000 (UTC), RJH <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he >doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?


    The trouble with Trump's policies is that he never thinks, or cares,
    about the consequences. If Apple, Intel etc started to build new
    factories in the US that wouldn't create long-term jobs for former
    coal miners and steel makers etc, because they don't have the skils,
    although they might benefit in the short term, during the construction
    phase.
    Then the great American public are going to find that things they have
    been used to buying cheaply are more expensive when they have a 'Made
    in the USA' label on them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe@21:1/5 to Peter Johnson on Thu Apr 3 17:03:50 2025
    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 14:10:05 +0100
    Peter Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 10:10:29 -0000 (UTC), RJH <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose
    assumption that he doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?


    The trouble with Trump's policies is that he never thinks, or cares,
    about the consequences. If Apple, Intel etc started to build new
    factories in the US that wouldn't create long-term jobs for former
    coal miners and steel makers etc, because they don't have the skils,
    although they might benefit in the short term, during the construction
    phase.
    Then the great American public are going to find that things they have
    been used to buying cheaply are more expensive when they have a 'Made
    in the USA' label on them.

    And they always were. When made in the USA, John Deere and DeWalt
    products, for example, were greatly respected, and justified their high
    prices.

    What Trump has done is to make a different choice of the impossible
    triangle. Like 'good, cheap, fast, pick two' for software, a country's
    economic policy has a triangle in 'welfare state, free trade,
    manufacturing industry', for obvious reasons.

    Most Western governments are fairly socialist, so the choice to drop
    that nasty capitalist 'manufacturing industry' was an obvious one.
    'Free trade' is good for virtue signalling, but it didn't seem to occur
    to Western governments that if they had no manufacturing industry, they
    had nothing to sell, and free trade was pointless. It only benefitted
    other countries. That was fine for the 'every country but his own' type
    of politician and civil servant, which seems to describe most of them,
    but not so good for the large number of British people who used to work
    in manufacturing.

    Trump has chosen to drop free trade, and to try to restore US
    manufacturing industry, which hasn't sunk quite as low as ours yet,
    because they don't have a Miliband running the country. But Obama did a
    great deal of damage to the US economy, and turning it around will
    take a while. It will take even longer in the UK, should any
    government choose to begin.

    --
    Joe

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Peter Johnson on Thu Apr 3 17:40:23 2025
    On 03/04/2025 14:10, Peter Johnson wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 10:10:29 -0000 (UTC), RJH <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he
    doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?


    The trouble with Trump's policies is that he never thinks, or cares,
    about the consequences. If Apple, Intel etc started to build new
    factories in the US that wouldn't create long-term jobs for former
    coal miners and steel makers etc, because they don't have the skils,
    although they might benefit in the short term, during the construction
    phase.
    Then the great American public are going to find that things they have
    been used to buying cheaply are more expensive when they have a 'Made
    in the USA' label on them.
    Yep. We almost had Ed Milliband. It would have been the same.

    --
    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
    In practice, there is.
    -- Yogi Berra

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Apr 3 17:45:53 2025
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 13:09:47 +0100, John R Walliker
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 12:28, Scott wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 10:10:29 -0000 (UTC), RJH <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he
    doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?

    There's likely to be a glut of tat coming our way from Aliexpress, Temu and >>> the like, especially as the US duty free limit ($800) has been removed. And >>> half-decent branded tools, cars, materials either sitting it out, or flooding
    more receptive markets?

    Or best not worth indulging the whole thing and carry on as usual?

    * and, what a surprise, they're not 'reciprocal' tariffs at all:
    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1907672322988740999

    I have just Googled general sales tax in the USA. I see there is no
    federal sales tax and the five states with the highest average
    combined state and local sales tax rates are Louisiana (9.56 percent),
    Tennessee (9.55 percent), Arkansas (9.45 percent), Washington (9.38
    percent), and Alabama (9.29 percent). On that basis, if you add the
    Trump tariff, the total should still be lower than our 20% VAT. Am I
    missing something?

    Yes. The difference is that VAT and the sales taxes you mention are
    levied on all applicable goods regardless of origin. VAT in the UK
    for example is levied equally on goods made in the UK and those made
    in the USA.
    Therefore there is no disadvantage to one country or the other.
    The Trump tariffs only apply to imported goods.
    John

    If I wanted to buy a Land Rover, would I be put off by an extra 10%?
    Especially if I knew that tax was broadly the same as in the UK.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Apr 3 17:49:25 2025
    On Thu, 03 Apr 2025 14:10:05 +0100, Peter Johnson
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 10:10:29 -0000 (UTC), RJH <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he >>doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?


    The trouble with Trump's policies is that he never thinks, or cares,
    about the consequences. If Apple, Intel etc started to build new
    factories in the US that wouldn't create long-term jobs for former
    coal miners and steel makers etc, because they don't have the skils,
    although they might benefit in the short term, during the construction
    phase.
    Then the great American public are going to find that things they have
    been used to buying cheaply are more expensive when they have a 'Made
    in the USA' label on them.

    Also, will Apple require to pay tariffs on all imported components,
    which must form a sizeable chunk of the cost of an iPad?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to Scott on Thu Apr 3 18:12:47 2025
    On 03/04/2025 17:45, Scott wrote:


    If I wanted to buy a Land Rover, would I be put off by an extra 10%? Especially if I knew that tax was broadly the same as in the UK.

    Cars have a 25% tariff, not 10%.

    --
    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 3 18:48:36 2025
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 18:12:47 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 17:45, Scott wrote:


    If I wanted to buy a Land Rover, would I be put off by an extra 10%?
    Especially if I knew that tax was broadly the same as in the UK.

    Cars have a 25% tariff, not 10%.

    Is that all cars, including imports from China that I thought had a
    higher tariff?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to Peter Johnson on Thu Apr 3 21:50:30 2025
    On 03/04/2025 14:10, Peter Johnson wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 10:10:29 -0000 (UTC), RJH <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he
    doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?


    The trouble with Trump's policies is that he never thinks, or cares,
    about the consequences. If Apple, Intel etc started to build new
    factories in the US that wouldn't create long-term jobs for former
    coal miners and steel makers etc, because they don't have the skils,
    although they might benefit in the short term, during the construction
    phase.
    Then the great American public are going to find that things they have
    been used to buying cheaply are more expensive when they have a 'Made
    in the USA' label on them.

    If those (and others) companies start to build those new factories[1],
    they are unlikely to be in operation much before Trump's term ends.
    In other words, the companies will be gambling very large sums on what a
    new administration would do about tariffs.

    [1] Most of the steel needed for this construction _would_ have come
    from outside the US, and thus the cost of construction will now be much
    higher.

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Scott on Thu Apr 3 23:08:10 2025
    Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Also, will Apple require to pay tariffs on all imported components,
    which must form a sizeable chunk of the cost of an iPad?

    iPads are made in China, so there's only a tariff payable on their import.
    But suppose they used modem chips made by Intel in the US.
    The modems could be exported from the US, and hit by whatever import tariff China impose.
    Then they're soldered into the iPad.
    Then there's a tariff when the finished iPads are imported into the US.

    Every time the parts cross the border there's a tariff. The more border crossings the more expensive it gets. Some products like cars have many
    border crossings.

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to Scott on Thu Apr 3 22:18:33 2025
    On 03/04/2025 18:48, Scott wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 18:12:47 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 17:45, Scott wrote:


    If I wanted to buy a Land Rover, would I be put off by an extra 10%?
    Especially if I knew that tax was broadly the same as in the UK.

    Cars have a 25% tariff, not 10%.

    Is that all cars, including imports from China that I thought had a
    higher tariff?

    All cars and car parts from anywhere in the world have a 25% tariff. I'm
    not sure if Trump's additional tariff for Chinese goods applies to cars
    or not.

    --
    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From TimW@21:1/5 to RJH on Fri Apr 4 08:11:39 2025
    On 03/04/2025 11:10, RJH wrote:
    Any predictions about what these* will mean - on the loose assumption that he doesn't change his mind in the next 20 minutes?

    There's likely to be a glut of tat coming our way from Aliexpress, Temu and the like, especially as the US duty free limit ($800) has been removed. And half-decent branded tools, cars, materials either sitting it out, or flooding more receptive markets?

    Or best not worth indulging the whole thing and carry on as usual?

    * and, what a surprise, they're not 'reciprocal' tariffs at all: https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1907672322988740999


    Trump is an idiot surrounded by enabling yes-men.
    Prepare for the Trump Slump. It's going to be horrible.

    TW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Armstrong@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Apr 4 08:47:09 2025
    On 03/04/2025 12:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 12:00, Theo wrote:
    EU was simple, pre-Brexit.

    No,. it wasnt. The postal services in many EU countries were corrupt to nonexisitent., Parcels simply vanished.


    Nowadays I tend to get stuff from companies who
    have sorted out the customs logistics and they have a pan-European
    distribution network.

    Last year in addition to China, I got some old new stock from Australia,
    no problems, and some ditto stuff from a French ebay seller, who as far
    as I can see simply put it in a jiffy bag and posted it.

    I did import a Fender voice coil from the USA. Expensive but not too bad
    time wise.

    Despite the EU international trade seems to go on.

    "Despite"? Surely "because of". I had occasion quite recently, after
    Scotland was dragged out of the EU against its will, to buy some
    body-worn radio microphones. I found what I wanted online from a
    supplier in York. Before I placed the order, I discovered that they were
    going to charge me extra for carriage because I live at a "remote" address.

    I live half a mile from Dundee city centre. There are several direct
    trains every day from York to Dundee, journey time just under four
    hours, and other methods of transport are available.

    I finished up buying the same microphones at the same price from a
    supplier in Germany. Very quick delivery, at no extra charge.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 09:48:41 2025
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 22:18:33 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 18:48, Scott wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 18:12:47 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 17:45, Scott wrote:


    If I wanted to buy a Land Rover, would I be put off by an extra 10%?
    Especially if I knew that tax was broadly the same as in the UK.

    Cars have a 25% tariff, not 10%.

    Is that all cars, including imports from China that I thought had a
    higher tariff?

    All cars and car parts from anywhere in the world have a 25% tariff. I'm
    not sure if Trump's additional tariff for Chinese goods applies to cars
    or not.

    Hilarious. What proportion by value of a US made car is represented by
    imported parts?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nick Finnigan@21:1/5 to Theo on Fri Apr 4 10:29:13 2025
    On 03/04/2025 23:08, Theo wrote:
    Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Also, will Apple require to pay tariffs on all imported components,
    which must form a sizeable chunk of the cost of an iPad?

    iPads are made in China, so there's only a tariff payable on their import. But suppose they used modem chips made by Intel in the US.
    The modems could be exported from the US, and hit by whatever import tariff China impose.
    Then they're soldered into the iPad.
    Then there's a tariff when the finished iPads are imported into the US.

    .. but all that is a small chunk of the retail price of an iPad.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From fred@21:1/5 to Theo on Fri Apr 4 10:55:59 2025
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote in news:cuh*[email protected]:


    iPads are made in China, so there's only a tariff payable on their
    import. But suppose they used modem chips made by Intel in the US.
    The modems could be exported from the US, and hit by whatever import
    tariff China impose.
    Then they're soldered into the iPad.
    Then there's a tariff when the finished iPads are imported into the
    US.

    Every time the parts cross the border there's a tariff. The more
    border crossings the more expensive it gets. Some products like cars
    have many border crossings.


    An interesting thought on the electronics front. If a US company provides
    all parts, inc boards, and sends them to the Far East for assembly[1] then
    they are not buying back sub assemblies, they have been charged for the
    service of assembly. Arguably the cost of the service is the only element
    that should attract a tariff and potentially the tariffs only apply to
    imported goods, not to services.

    Debate welcome but I suspect that it would take heavy legal muscle to break
    the likely customs view that the value of the sub assembly as declared at import would be the subject of the tariff. Also likely cheaper for the US
    comp to source the parts abroad too.

    [1] When I was in this area, the general rule of costs for overseas
    assembly was 5% of the component cost when working in serious volume.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Nick Finnigan on Fri Apr 4 11:27:16 2025
    Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 03/04/2025 23:08, Theo wrote:
    Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Also, will Apple require to pay tariffs on all imported components,
    which must form a sizeable chunk of the cost of an iPad?

    iPads are made in China, so there's only a tariff payable on their import. But suppose they used modem chips made by Intel in the US.
    The modems could be exported from the US, and hit by whatever import tariff China impose.
    Then they're soldered into the iPad.
    Then there's a tariff when the finished iPads are imported into the US.

    .. but all that is a small chunk of the retail price of an iPad.

    iPads yes, but with a car it's more substantial. eg you make engine parts
    in Canda, subassemblies in the US, assemble the engine in Mexico, assemble
    the car in the US, and sell it in Europe. Each time the parts cross a
    border there's a tariff, and parts like engines are a considerable chunk of
    the value of the car.

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 11:09:44 2025
    On 04/04/2025 in message <[email protected]> John Armstrong wrote:

    "Despite"? Surely "because of". I had occasion quite recently, after
    Scotland was dragged out of the EU against its will,

    The Brexit referendum was UK wide so Scotland, Yorkshire, London etc. were
    not dragged out of the EU against their will because their individual will
    was irrelevant.

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to John Armstrong on Fri Apr 4 12:41:19 2025
    On 04/04/2025 08:47, John Armstrong wrote:

    <snip>

    after Scotland was dragged out of the EU against its will

    Your grasp of mathematics is very limited.

    Out of an electorate of just 3,987,112 just 42% objected to leaving the EU.

    Only 1,661,191 expressed a desire to stay in the EU and the rest, some 2,325,921 expressed either a desire to leave or simply didn't care.

    The irony is that Scotland has seen very little immigration from Eastern
    Europe from 2004/5 onwards. If it had then support for Brexit would be
    far greater and substantive house building programs would have been overwhelming.

    I wonder how the Scottish electorate would cope with million pound homes becoming the norm in Edinburgh and Glasgow?

    Best move forward and onward and accept Scotland is not attractive to immigrants.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Theo@21:1/5 to fred on Fri Apr 4 14:13:27 2025
    fred <[email protected]> wrote:
    An interesting thought on the electronics front. If a US company provides
    all parts, inc boards, and sends them to the Far East for assembly[1] then they are not buying back sub assemblies, they have been charged for the service of assembly. Arguably the cost of the service is the only element that should attract a tariff and potentially the tariffs only apply to imported goods, not to services.

    That's a good question. I suspect a lot of parts are quasi-single source - maybe you have a handful of vendors to choose from but you don't have free reign. If you start knocking out vendors based on place of manufacture
    (rather than the functionality of the component) you rapidly end up with
    zero choices. A lot of things have a handful of factories that makes the world's supply of some specialised widget, and they're mostly in China.

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Theo on Fri Apr 4 15:43:56 2025
    On 04/04/2025 14:13, Theo wrote:
    fred <[email protected]> wrote:
    An interesting thought on the electronics front. If a US company provides
    all parts, inc boards, and sends them to the Far East for assembly[1] then >> they are not buying back sub assemblies, they have been charged for the
    service of assembly. Arguably the cost of the service is the only element
    that should attract a tariff and potentially the tariffs only apply to
    imported goods, not to services.

    That's a good question. I suspect a lot of parts are quasi-single source - maybe you have a handful of vendors to choose from but you don't have free reign. If you start knocking out vendors based on place of manufacture (rather than the functionality of the component) you rapidly end up with
    zero choices. A lot of things have a handful of factories that makes the world's supply of some specialised widget, and they're mostly in China.

    Theo
    Apart from Ford, I cant think of any US based auto transmission makers.
    And ford probly manufactures in Mexico...

    Industry is global. It will cost a lot to change that.


    --
    "First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors."
    - George Orwell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 4 15:30:24 2025
    Op 04/04/2025 om 12:41 schreef Fredxx:
    Scotland has seen very little immigration from Eastern Europe from
    2004/5 onwards.

    You are very muck mistaken or maybe you don't live in Britain. I lived
    in Glasgow around 2004-2007 and it was absolutely flooded with Poles.

    --
    Fuck Putin! Fuck Trump! Слава Україні!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Theo on Fri Apr 4 16:04:08 2025
    Theo wrote:

    fred <[email protected]> wrote:
    An interesting thought on the electronics front. If a US company
    provides
    all parts, inc boards, and sends them to the Far East for assembly[1] then >> they are not buying back sub assemblies, they have been charged for the
    service of assembly. Arguably the cost of the service is the only element
    that should attract a tariff and potentially the tariffs only apply to
    imported goods, not to services.

    That's a good question. I suspect a lot of parts are quasi-single source - maybe you have a handful of vendors to choose from but you don't have free reign.
    Many years ago we used to sell hardware maintenance on fax/telex modems
    that were used by our systems, I think the person who had to deal with
    the ones in Europe hated the task, had to send out some form of "carnet"
    withe the replacement and make sure it was returned with the old one, or
    the customer got charged for having the old one replaced and we got
    charged for having the dead one back ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Apr 4 16:41:52 2025
    On 03 Apr 2025 23:08:10 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Also, will Apple require to pay tariffs on all imported components,
    which must form a sizeable chunk of the cost of an iPad?

    iPads are made in China, so there's only a tariff payable on their import. >But suppose they used modem chips made by Intel in the US.
    The modems could be exported from the US, and hit by whatever import tariff >China impose.
    Then they're soldered into the iPad.
    Then there's a tariff when the finished iPads are imported into the US.

    Every time the parts cross the border there's a tariff. The more border >crossings the more expensive it gets. Some products like cars have many >border crossings.

    I was more thinking about what would happen if they moved production
    to California (as I assume Mr Trump would wish). I think 'production'
    here means assembly. I understand that components come from something
    like 40(?) different countries so I am suggesting that a large part of
    the component cost would be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, the US wage costs must be very substantially higher than
    China (I accept they may use more robots) so a 'MAGA' iPad could be
    very expensive indeed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Theo@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Apr 4 16:54:31 2025
    The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 04/04/2025 14:13, Theo wrote:
    fred <[email protected]> wrote:
    An interesting thought on the electronics front. If a US company provides >> all parts, inc boards, and sends them to the Far East for assembly[1] then >> they are not buying back sub assemblies, they have been charged for the
    service of assembly. Arguably the cost of the service is the only element >> that should attract a tariff and potentially the tariffs only apply to
    imported goods, not to services.

    That's a good question. I suspect a lot of parts are quasi-single source - maybe you have a handful of vendors to choose from but you don't have free reign. If you start knocking out vendors based on place of manufacture (rather than the functionality of the component) you rapidly end up with zero choices. A lot of things have a handful of factories that makes the world's supply of some specialised widget, and they're mostly in China.

    Theo
    Apart from Ford, I cant think of any US based auto transmission makers.
    And ford probly manufactures in Mexico...

    Industry is global. It will cost a lot to change that.

    It won't change. Supply chains can carry on just as before but without manufacturing anywhere near the US. It's like sanctions on Russia -
    everybody stopped dealing with Russian companies and found alternative suppliers. The US has just applied sanctions to *itself*.

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Apr 4 17:37:58 2025
    On 04 Apr 2025 16:54:31 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 04/04/2025 14:13, Theo wrote:
    fred <[email protected]> wrote:
    An interesting thought on the electronics front. If a US company provides >> >> all parts, inc boards, and sends them to the Far East for assembly[1] then
    they are not buying back sub assemblies, they have been charged for the >> >> service of assembly. Arguably the cost of the service is the only element >> >> that should attract a tariff and potentially the tariffs only apply to
    imported goods, not to services.

    That's a good question. I suspect a lot of parts are quasi-single source -
    maybe you have a handful of vendors to choose from but you don't have free >> > reign. If you start knocking out vendors based on place of manufacture
    (rather than the functionality of the component) you rapidly end up with >> > zero choices. A lot of things have a handful of factories that makes the >> > world's supply of some specialised widget, and they're mostly in China.

    Theo
    Apart from Ford, I cant think of any US based auto transmission makers.
    And ford probly manufactures in Mexico...

    Industry is global. It will cost a lot to change that.

    It won't change. Supply chains can carry on just as before but without >manufacturing anywhere near the US. It's like sanctions on Russia - >everybody stopped dealing with Russian companies and found alternative >suppliers. The US has just applied sanctions to *itself*.

    What does the US routinely export? I very rarely see US made goods in
    the shops? I wonder how Boeing will be affected. If EU places tariffs
    on aircraft presumably Airbus will get all the orders. Okay, Airbus
    will probably lose the US but I assume the market outside the US is
    bigger than the US domestic market.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Theo on Fri Apr 4 18:04:41 2025
    On 04/04/2025 16:54, Theo wrote:
    Supply chains can carry on just as before but without
    manufacturing anywhere near the US. It's like sanctions on Russia - everybody stopped dealing with Russian companies and found alternative suppliers. The US has just applied sanctions to *itself*.

    It's the Genius of Trump.


    --
    How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

    Adolf Hitler

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From S Viemeister@21:1/5 to Ottavio Caruso on Fri Apr 4 20:48:33 2025
    On 4/4/2025 3:30 PM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    Op 04/04/2025 om 12:41 schreef Fredxx:
    Scotland has seen very little immigration from Eastern Europe from
    2004/5 onwards.

    You are very muck mistaken or maybe you don't live in Britain. I lived
    in Glasgow around 2004-2007 and it was absolutely flooded with Poles.

    In inverness, I'm more likely to hear Polish being spoken, than Gaelic.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RJH@21:1/5 to Fredxx on Fri Apr 4 20:25:19 2025
    On 4 Apr 2025 at 12:41:19 BST, Fredxx wrote:

    On 04/04/2025 08:47, John Armstrong wrote:

    <snip>

    after Scotland was dragged out of the EU against its will

    Your grasp of mathematics is very limited.

    Out of an electorate of just 3,987,112 just 42% objected to leaving the EU.

    Only 1,661,191 expressed a desire to stay in the EU and the rest, some 2,325,921 expressed either a desire to leave or simply didn't care.


    Rather twisted logic - 62% of those that voted wanted to remain. Not voting doesn't mean not caring.

    The irony is that Scotland has seen very little immigration from Eastern Europe from 2004/5 onwards. If it had then support for Brexit would be
    far greater and substantive house building programs would have been overwhelming.

    I wonder how the Scottish electorate would cope with million pound homes becoming the norm in Edinburgh and Glasgow?

    Best move forward and onward and accept Scotland is not attractive to immigrants.

    Utter nonsense. At the very least read some history.

    --
    Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RJH@21:1/5 to Scott on Fri Apr 4 20:34:09 2025
    On 4 Apr 2025 at 17:37:58 BST, Scott wrote:

    On 04 Apr 2025 16:54:31 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 04/04/2025 14:13, Theo wrote:
    fred <[email protected]> wrote:
    An interesting thought on the electronics front. If a US company provides >>>>> all parts, inc boards, and sends them to the Far East for assembly[1] then
    they are not buying back sub assemblies, they have been charged for the >>>>> service of assembly. Arguably the cost of the service is the only element >>>>> that should attract a tariff and potentially the tariffs only apply to >>>>> imported goods, not to services.

    That's a good question. I suspect a lot of parts are quasi-single source -
    maybe you have a handful of vendors to choose from but you don't have free >>>> reign. If you start knocking out vendors based on place of manufacture >>>> (rather than the functionality of the component) you rapidly end up with >>>> zero choices. A lot of things have a handful of factories that makes the >>>> world's supply of some specialised widget, and they're mostly in China. >>>>
    Theo
    Apart from Ford, I cant think of any US based auto transmission makers.
    And ford probly manufactures in Mexico...

    Industry is global. It will cost a lot to change that.

    It won't change. Supply chains can carry on just as before but without
    manufacturing anywhere near the US. It's like sanctions on Russia -
    everybody stopped dealing with Russian companies and found alternative
    suppliers. The US has just applied sanctions to *itself*.

    What does the US routinely export? I very rarely see US made goods in
    the shops? I wonder how Boeing will be affected. If EU places tariffs
    on aircraft presumably Airbus will get all the orders. Okay, Airbus
    will probably lose the US but I assume the market outside the US is
    bigger than the US domestic market.

    Apparently: "In 2023, the UK imported £57.9 billion of goods from the United States (10.0% of all goods imports) and exported £60.4 billion of goods (15.3% of all goods exports) . . . The largest commodities imported (from US to UK) were £5.5 billion of mechanical power generators (intermediate) and £3.1 billion of aircraft (and) £18.7 billion of fuels":

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/uktradewiththeunitedstates2023/2023
    --
    Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Eager@21:1/5 to JNugent on Fri Apr 4 22:41:55 2025
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 17:28:00 -0500, JNugent wrote:

    I was more thinking about what would happen if they moved production to
    California (as I assume Mr Trump would wish). I think 'production' here
    means assembly. I understand that components come from something like
    40(?) different countries so I am suggesting that a large part of the
    component cost would be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, the US wage costs must be very substantially higher than
    China (I accept they may use more robots) so a 'MAGA' iPad could be
    very expensive indeed.

    Because of high labour and housing costs in the main urban areas,
    California probably not be an attractive location for car and component manufacture relocated from Mexico and Canada.

    The rust belt states would clamouring for the work.

    Trump would not use California, although the reason would be that CA is a hotbed of filthy commie Democrats.

    --
    My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
    wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
    Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
    *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to Scott on Fri Apr 4 17:28:00 2025
    On 04/04/2025 10:41, Scott wrote:
    On 03 Apr 2025 23:08:10 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Also, will Apple require to pay tariffs on all imported components,
    which must form a sizeable chunk of the cost of an iPad?

    iPads are made in China, so there's only a tariff payable on their import. >> But suppose they used modem chips made by Intel in the US.
    The modems could be exported from the US, and hit by whatever import tariff >> China impose.
    Then they're soldered into the iPad.
    Then there's a tariff when the finished iPads are imported into the US.

    Every time the parts cross the border there's a tariff. The more border
    crossings the more expensive it gets. Some products like cars have many
    border crossings.

    I was more thinking about what would happen if they moved production
    to California (as I assume Mr Trump would wish). I think 'production'
    here means assembly. I understand that components come from something
    like 40(?) different countries so I am suggesting that a large part of
    the component cost would be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, the US wage costs must be very substantially higher than
    China (I accept they may use more robots) so a 'MAGA' iPad could be
    very expensive indeed.

    Because of high labour and housing costs in the main urban areas,
    California probably not be an attractive location for car and component manufacture relocated from Mexico and Canada.

    The rust belt states would clamouring for the work.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Streater@21:1/5 to Bob Eager on Sat Apr 5 08:09:33 2025
    On 4 Apr 2025 at 23:41:55 BST, "Bob Eager" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 17:28:00 -0500, JNugent wrote:

    I was more thinking about what would happen if they moved production to
    California (as I assume Mr Trump would wish). I think 'production' here
    means assembly. I understand that components come from something like
    40(?) different countries so I am suggesting that a large part of the
    component cost would be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, the US wage costs must be very substantially higher than
    China (I accept they may use more robots) so a 'MAGA' iPad could be
    very expensive indeed.

    Because of high labour and housing costs in the main urban areas,
    California probably not be an attractive location for car and component
    manufacture relocated from Mexico and Canada.

    The rust belt states would clamouring for the work.

    Trump would not use California, although the reason would be that CA is a hotbed of filthy commie Democrats.

    I don't think that the Demos, even now, have realised the extent to which they have acted as enablers for Trump.

    --
    HAL 9000: Dave. Put down those Windows disks. Dave. DAVE!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Apr 5 10:23:07 2025
    On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 20:48:33 +0100, S Viemeister
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 4/4/2025 3:30 PM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    Op 04/04/2025 om 12:41 schreef Fredxx:
    Scotland has seen very little immigration from Eastern Europe from
    2004/5 onwards.

    You are very muck mistaken or maybe you don't live in Britain. I lived
    in Glasgow around 2004-2007 and it was absolutely flooded with Poles.

    In inverness, I'm more likely to hear Polish being spoken, than Gaelic.

    One of the court buildings put up bilingual Gaelic signs a few years
    ago. I suggested that Polish would be more helpful until it was
    pointed out that the Poles were too busy working to commit crimes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Bob Eager on Sat Apr 5 12:21:48 2025
    On 04/04/2025 23:41, Bob Eager wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 17:28:00 -0500, JNugent wrote:

    I was more thinking about what would happen if they moved production to
    California (as I assume Mr Trump would wish). I think 'production' here
    means assembly. I understand that components come from something like
    40(?) different countries so I am suggesting that a large part of the
    component cost would be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, the US wage costs must be very substantially higher than
    China (I accept they may use more robots) so a 'MAGA' iPad could be
    very expensive indeed.

    Because of high labour and housing costs in the main urban areas,
    California probably not be an attractive location for car and component
    manufacture relocated from Mexico and Canada.

    The rust belt states would clamouring for the work.

    Trump would not use California, although the reason would be that CA is a hotbed of filthy commie Democrats.

    One thing he got pretty much right...

    --
    There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
    returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

    Mark Twain

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Tim Streater on Sat Apr 5 12:23:29 2025
    On 05/04/2025 09:09, Tim Streater wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 at 23:41:55 BST, "Bob Eager" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 17:28:00 -0500, JNugent wrote:

    I was more thinking about what would happen if they moved production to >>>> California (as I assume Mr Trump would wish). I think 'production' here >>>> means assembly. I understand that components come from something like
    40(?) different countries so I am suggesting that a large part of the
    component cost would be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, the US wage costs must be very substantially higher than
    China (I accept they may use more robots) so a 'MAGA' iPad could be
    very expensive indeed.

    Because of high labour and housing costs in the main urban areas,
    California probably not be an attractive location for car and component
    manufacture relocated from Mexico and Canada.

    The rust belt states would clamouring for the work.

    Trump would not use California, although the reason would be that CA is a
    hotbed of filthy commie Democrats.

    I don't think that the Demos, even now, have realised the extent to which they
    have acted as enablers for Trump.


    Nope.

    As with the UK, there is no longer a 'conservative' element. There is
    radical left and radical right.

    In the UK there was radical left and left.

    --
    There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
    returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

    Mark Twain

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to Scott on Sat Apr 5 13:19:30 2025
    On 04/04/2025 09:48, Scott wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 22:18:33 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 18:48, Scott wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 18:12:47 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 17:45, Scott wrote:


    If I wanted to buy a Land Rover, would I be put off by an extra 10%? >>>>> Especially if I knew that tax was broadly the same as in the UK.

    Cars have a 25% tariff, not 10%.

    Is that all cars, including imports from China that I thought had a
    higher tariff?

    All cars and car parts from anywhere in the world have a 25% tariff. I'm
    not sure if Trump's additional tariff for Chinese goods applies to cars
    or not.

    Hilarious. What proportion by value of a US made car is represented by imported parts?

    That would depend on what the manufacturer decides for any particular
    model. Could be anything from a fraction of a percent to tens of percents.

    --
    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to Bob Eager on Sat Apr 5 11:27:30 2025
    On 04/04/2025 17:41, Bob Eager wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 17:28:00 -0500, JNugent wrote:

    I was more thinking about what would happen if they moved production to
    California (as I assume Mr Trump would wish). I think 'production' here
    means assembly. I understand that components come from something like
    40(?) different countries so I am suggesting that a large part of the
    component cost would be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, the US wage costs must be very substantially higher than
    China (I accept they may use more robots) so a 'MAGA' iPad could be
    very expensive indeed.

    Because of high labour and housing costs in the main urban areas,
    California probably not be an attractive location for car and component
    manufacture relocated from Mexico and Canada.

    The rust belt states would clamouring for the work.

    Trump would not use California, although the reason would be that CA is a hotbed of filthy commie Democrats.

    It wouldn't be his choice. Car manufacturing is a private enterprise.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Apr 5 11:28:24 2025
    On 05/04/2025 06:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 05/04/2025 09:09, Tim Streater wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 at 23:41:55 BST, "Bob Eager" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 17:28:00 -0500, JNugent wrote:

    I was more thinking about what would happen if they moved
    production to
    California (as I assume Mr Trump would wish). I think 'production'
    here
    means assembly. I understand that components come from something like >>>>> 40(?) different countries so I am suggesting that a large part of the >>>>> component cost would be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, the US wage costs must be very substantially higher than >>>>> China (I accept they may use more robots) so a 'MAGA' iPad could be
    very expensive indeed.

    Because of high labour and housing costs in the main urban areas,
    California probably not be an attractive location for car and component >>>> manufacture relocated from Mexico and Canada.

    The rust belt states would clamouring for the work.

    Trump would not use California, although the reason would be that CA
    is a
    hotbed of filthy commie Democrats.

    I don't think that the Demos, even now, have realised the extent to
    which they
    have acted as enablers for Trump.


    Nope.

    As with the UK, there is no longer a 'conservative' element. There is
    radical left and radical right.

    In the UK there was radical left and left.

    For once, I agree with you.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim Streater@21:1/5 to JNugent on Sat Apr 5 18:15:55 2025
    On 5 Apr 2025 at 17:28:24 BST, "JNugent" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 05/04/2025 06:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 05/04/2025 09:09, Tim Streater wrote:
    On 4 Apr 2025 at 23:41:55 BST, "Bob Eager" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Apr 2025 17:28:00 -0500, JNugent wrote:

    I was more thinking about what would happen if they moved
    production to
    California (as I assume Mr Trump would wish). I think 'production' >>>>>> here
    means assembly. I understand that components come from something like >>>>>> 40(?) different countries so I am suggesting that a large part of the >>>>>> component cost would be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, the US wage costs must be very substantially higher than >>>>>> China (I accept they may use more robots) so a 'MAGA' iPad could be >>>>>> very expensive indeed.

    Because of high labour and housing costs in the main urban areas,
    California probably not be an attractive location for car and component >>>>> manufacture relocated from Mexico and Canada.

    The rust belt states would clamouring for the work.

    Trump would not use California, although the reason would be that CA
    is a hotbed of filthy commie Democrats.

    I don't think that the Demos, even now, have realised the extent to
    which they have acted as enablers for Trump.


    Nope.

    As with the UK, there is no longer a 'conservative' element. There is
    radical left and radical right.

    Interesting but irrelevant. The dems abandonded their traditional base (blue collar workers) and started sneering at them. These worthies, to no-one's surprise, responded with a firm "fuck that" and all moved to Trump. Just as
    the same demographic here is flirting with Our Nige.

    Oh - and to what email did your sig refer? I received no email: This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --
    "People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Sat Apr 5 19:17:13 2025
    On Sat, 4/5/2025 8:19 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 04/04/2025 09:48, Scott wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 22:18:33 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 18:48, Scott wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 18:12:47 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 17:45, Scott wrote:


    If I wanted to buy a Land Rover, would I be put off by an extra 10%? >>>>>> Especially if I knew that tax was broadly the same as in the UK.

    Cars have a 25% tariff, not 10%.

    Is that all cars, including imports from China that I thought had a
    higher tariff?

    All cars and car parts from anywhere in the world have a 25% tariff. I'm >>> not sure if Trump's additional tariff for Chinese goods applies to cars
    or not.

    Hilarious. What proportion by value of a US made car is represented by
    imported parts?

    That would depend on what the manufacturer decides for any particular model. Could be anything from a fraction of a percent to tens of percents.

    Subassemblies of one sort or another, go back and forth across
    the border, as things are added to them. It's not just a unidirectional movement of finished parts. It's really quite amazing, from an organization aspect. It's run like an Airbus or Boeing. It's JIT and it is borderless.
    Just a reduction in paperwork, helps enable it.

    A tariff will not just raise the price of the item. It is so impractical
    (even if the tariff was 1%) from a paperwork perspective, the model will
    just "break". Stellantis has already closed one plant.

    This is the history of it. The Auto Pact and NAFTA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93United_States_Automotive_Products_Agreement

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement

    The interesting thing to me, about recent events, is unlike other times
    in history, I see no economists contributing simulation or estimation exercises, to predict the outcome of moves like this. It will likely
    take some time, to respond to "a series of numbers withdrawn from a hat",
    like a bingo parlor. Even the penguins are waiting for the analysis,
    to see how much their poop exports will drop.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to Paul on Sun Apr 6 01:40:54 2025
    On 06/04/2025 00:17, Paul wrote:
    On Sat, 4/5/2025 8:19 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 04/04/2025 09:48, Scott wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 22:18:33 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d>
    wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 18:48, Scott wrote:
    On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 18:12:47 +0100, Jeff Layman <[email protected]d> >>>>> wrote:

    On 03/04/2025 17:45, Scott wrote:


    If I wanted to buy a Land Rover, would I be put off by an extra 10%? >>>>>>> Especially if I knew that tax was broadly the same as in the UK.

    Cars have a 25% tariff, not 10%.

    Is that all cars, including imports from China that I thought had a
    higher tariff?

    All cars and car parts from anywhere in the world have a 25% tariff. I'm >>>> not sure if Trump's additional tariff for Chinese goods applies to cars >>>> or not.

    Hilarious. What proportion by value of a US made car is represented by
    imported parts?

    That would depend on what the manufacturer decides for any particular model. >> Could be anything from a fraction of a percent to tens of percents.

    Subassemblies of one sort or another, go back and forth across
    the border, as things are added to them. It's not just a unidirectional movement of finished parts. It's really quite amazing, from an organization aspect. It's run like an Airbus or Boeing. It's JIT and it is borderless. Just a reduction in paperwork, helps enable it.

    A tariff will not just raise the price of the item. It is so impractical (even if the tariff was 1%) from a paperwork perspective, the model will
    just "break". Stellantis has already closed one plant.

    This is the history of it. The Auto Pact and NAFTA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93United_States_Automotive_Products_Agreement

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement

    The interesting thing to me, about recent events, is unlike other times
    in history, I see no economists contributing simulation or estimation exercises, to predict the outcome of moves like this. It will likely
    take some time, to respond to "a series of numbers withdrawn from a hat", like a bingo parlor. Even the penguins are waiting for the analysis,
    to see how much their poop exports will drop.

    If only those penguins had bothered to invade a nearby island and killed
    a few thousand inhabitants. Trump likes strongmen(penguin) dictators.

    After all, the US$3.27 Billion of Russian exports to the US (last year -
    who knows how much it will be this year?) are hardly enough to warrant
    any tariffs at all.


    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 7 15:31:56 2025
    Op 04/04/2025 om 20:48 schreef S Viemeister:
    On 4/4/2025 3:30 PM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    Op 04/04/2025 om 12:41 schreef Fredxx:
    Scotland has seen very little immigration from Eastern Europe from
    2004/5 onwards.

    You are very muck mistaken or maybe you don't live in Britain. I lived
    in Glasgow around 2004-2007 and it was absolutely flooded with Poles.

    In inverness, I'm more likely to hear Polish being spoken, than Gaelic.

    Well, now, yes. Poles are 2nd generation, well integrated and most
    likely not to speak Polish at home.

    --
    Fuck Putin! Fuck Trump! Слава Україні!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)