• Ticketing question

    From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 24 14:50:41 2025
    I am planning a trip from Glasgow to Newton Abbot (and back) in May. I understand from the Avanti website that off-peak return tickets
    'generally' allow break of journey in either direction.

    Could I travel from Glasgow to Birmingham New Street (to look at some
    trams), spend two nights in Birmingham, then travel to Taunton (to
    visit the West Somerset Railway), spend two nights in Taunton then
    travel to Newton Abbot or would this be taking the p*ss?

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  • From Scott@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Mar 24 15:00:07 2025
    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:50:41 +0000, Scott
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am planning a trip from Glasgow to Newton Abbot (and back) in May. I >understand from the Avanti website that off-peak return tickets
    'generally' allow break of journey in either direction.

    Could I travel from Glasgow to Birmingham New Street (to look at some
    trams), spend two nights in Birmingham, then travel to Taunton (to
    visit the West Somerset Railway), spend two nights in Taunton then
    travel to Newton Abbot or would this be taking the p*ss?

    Posted to the wrong group but I expect people here will know the
    answer anyway !!!

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  • From Alan J. Wylie@21:1/5 to Scott on Mon Mar 24 16:45:10 2025
    Scott <[email protected]> writes:

    I am planning a trip from Glasgow to Newton Abbot (and back) in May. I understand from the Avanti website that off-peak return tickets
    'generally' allow break of journey in either direction.

    Could I travel from Glasgow to Birmingham New Street (to look at some
    trams), spend two nights in Birmingham, then travel to Taunton (to
    visit the West Somerset Railway), spend two nights in Taunton then
    travel to Newton Abbot or would this be taking the p*ss?

    It's often cheaper to buy several tickets to "split" your journey into different legs.

    There are several web site that will do this for you, e.g. https://book.splitticketing.com/

    Check to see whether buying individual tickets between your destinations
    might be cheaper than end-to-end.

    --
    Alan J. Wylie https://www.wylie.me.uk/ mailto:<[email protected]>

    Dance like no-one's watching. / Encrypt like everyone is.
    Security is inversely proportional to convenience

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  • From Davey@21:1/5 to Scott on Mon Mar 24 16:18:54 2025
    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 15:00:07 +0000
    Scott <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:50:41 +0000, Scott
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am planning a trip from Glasgow to Newton Abbot (and back) in May.
    I understand from the Avanti website that off-peak return tickets >'generally' allow break of journey in either direction.

    Could I travel from Glasgow to Birmingham New Street (to look at some >trams), spend two nights in Birmingham, then travel to Taunton (to
    visit the West Somerset Railway), spend two nights in Taunton then
    travel to Newton Abbot or would this be taking the p*ss?

    Posted to the wrong group but I expect people here will know the
    answer anyway !!!

    A simple answer, but probably correct: If it is the most convenient for
    you, it will surely not be available. If there is something similar.
    but not suitable, it will be much cheaper than what you had hoped, but
    of no use whatsoever. For example, you might be able to stop off in
    Cardiff, but nowhere else.

    Guess how I know this?

    --
    Davey.

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  • From David Wade@21:1/5 to Scott on Mon Mar 24 17:02:43 2025
    On 24/03/2025 15:00, Scott wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:50:41 +0000, Scott
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am planning a trip from Glasgow to Newton Abbot (and back) in May. I
    understand from the Avanti website that off-peak return tickets
    'generally' allow break of journey in either direction.

    Could I travel from Glasgow to Birmingham New Street (to look at some
    trams), spend two nights in Birmingham, then travel to Taunton (to
    visit the West Somerset Railway), spend two nights in Taunton then
    travel to Newton Abbot or would this be taking the p*ss?

    Posted to the wrong group but I expect people here will know the
    answer anyway !!!

    I thought generally you had to complete your journey on the same day but
    the conditions of travel say :-

    INFORMATION: Most Tickets allow you to break your journey. This means
    that you do not have to make the whole of your journey at the same time
    or, where allowed, on the same day.

    ... however when you select a ticket for that route you will find most
    options say there are special restrictions one of which is no break of
    journey except to change trains.

    I think they generally want you to buy an "Advance" which are much cheaper..

    I think you need to try options on the web site

    Dave

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  • From Nick Odell@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Mar 24 17:42:22 2025
    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:50:41 +0000, Scott
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am planning a trip from Glasgow to Newton Abbot (and back) in May. I >understand from the Avanti website that off-peak return tickets
    'generally' allow break of journey in either direction.

    Could I travel from Glasgow to Birmingham New Street (to look at some
    trams), spend two nights in Birmingham, then travel to Taunton (to
    visit the West Somerset Railway), spend two nights in Taunton then
    travel to Newton Abbot or would this be taking the p*ss?

    My opinion (and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it) is
    that you could do it on the return leg but not on the outward one.

    If you look at the paper ticket (or presumably somewhere on your phone
    if you have your tickets sent to your phone) the outbound ticket is
    printed with the words "Valid on" followed by the actual date of the
    outbound journey and the return ticket is printed "Valid until" with a
    date approximately one month after the outbound ticket date. The
    return ticket is the one you could probably play around with -
    provided that starting your return journey doesn't set some cunning
    countdown mechanism into play. You might want to look into that
    aspect.

    Nick

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Scott on Mon Mar 24 19:05:50 2025
    XPost: uk.railway

    Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Thanks. Found it on Avanti website. This seems to cover the situation:

    Ticket Description

    Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are
    less busy. You may need to travel at specific times of the day, days
    of the week and sometimes on specific routes or operators.The times
    when you may use your Off-Peak ticket will depend on the journey you
    are making and you will be advised when buying your ticket. The
    National Rail Journey Planner will automatically work out which
    tickets are valid for your journey. Valid by the route shown - Outward
    Within 01 Day, Return Within 01 Month

    Yes, BoJ and ticket validity are separate things. The outward of an Offpeak
    is valid on one day only. If BoJ is allowed it means you could stop off for several hours for, say, a football match and then resume your journey. You couldn't break for a day or more then resume. (although I think you could continue onto the next day after 4.30am if you started travelling before
    then, but with no further BoJ)

    An Anytime Return allows 5 days for the outward (including unlimited BoJ
    where permitted). But you may find buying separate tickets is cheaper.

    Theo

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  • From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 24 18:28:10 2025
    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 17:42:22 +0000, Nick Odell <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:50:41 +0000, Scott
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am planning a trip from Glasgow to Newton Abbot (and back) in May. I >>understand from the Avanti website that off-peak return tickets
    'generally' allow break of journey in either direction.

    Could I travel from Glasgow to Birmingham New Street (to look at some >>trams), spend two nights in Birmingham, then travel to Taunton (to
    visit the West Somerset Railway), spend two nights in Taunton then
    travel to Newton Abbot or would this be taking the p*ss?

    My opinion (and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it) is
    that you could do it on the return leg but not on the outward one.

    If you look at the paper ticket (or presumably somewhere on your phone
    if you have your tickets sent to your phone) the outbound ticket is
    printed with the words "Valid on" followed by the actual date of the
    outbound journey and the return ticket is printed "Valid until" with a
    date approximately one month after the outbound ticket date. The
    return ticket is the one you could probably play around with -
    provided that starting your return journey doesn't set some cunning
    countdown mechanism into play. You might want to look into that
    aspect.

    Thanks. Found it on Avanti website. This seems to cover the situation:

    Ticket Description

    Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are
    less busy. You may need to travel at specific times of the day, days
    of the week and sometimes on specific routes or operators.The times
    when you may use your Off-Peak ticket will depend on the journey you
    are making and you will be advised when buying your ticket. The
    National Rail Journey Planner will automatically work out which
    tickets are valid for your journey. Valid by the route shown - Outward
    Within 01 Day, Return Within 01 Month

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Theo on Mon Mar 24 19:21:54 2025
    XPost: uk.railway

    In uk.d-i-y Theo <[email protected]> wrote:
    Yes, BoJ and ticket validity are separate things. The outward of an Offpeak is valid on one day only. If BoJ is allowed it means you could stop off for several hours for, say, a football match and then resume your journey. You couldn't break for a day or more then resume. (although I think you could continue onto the next day after 4.30am if you started travelling before then, but with no further BoJ)

    An Anytime Return allows 5 days for the outward (including unlimited BoJ where permitted). But you may find buying separate tickets is cheaper.

    Forgot mention that the 'return 1 month' often does allow unlimited BoJ. So your itinerary would work on an Offpeak Return if you did it in reverse - Glasgow to Newton Abbott in one day, then a leisurely multi-day return.

    Any permitted route: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=0433&dest=NTA&tkt=SVR
    or via Bristol: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=0433&dest=NTA&rte=817&tkt=SVR

    - the former has a blackout on some trains arriving Euston before 10am.

    Theo

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  • From S Viemeister@21:1/5 to Alan J. Wylie on Mon Mar 24 21:31:11 2025
    On 3/24/2025 4:45 PM, Alan J. Wylie wrote:
    Scott <[email protected]> writes:

    I am planning a trip from Glasgow to Newton Abbot (and back) in May. I
    understand from the Avanti website that off-peak return tickets
    'generally' allow break of journey in either direction.

    Could I travel from Glasgow to Birmingham New Street (to look at some
    trams), spend two nights in Birmingham, then travel to Taunton (to
    visit the West Somerset Railway), spend two nights in Taunton then
    travel to Newton Abbot or would this be taking the p*ss?

    It's often cheaper to buy several tickets to "split" your journey into different legs.

    Yes - I have certainly found that to be true. Sometimes the price
    difference is ridiculously high.

    There are several web site that will do this for you, e.g. https://book.splitticketing.com/

    Check to see whether buying individual tickets between your destinations might be cheaper than end-to-end.


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  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to Scott on Tue Mar 25 07:50:42 2025
    On 24/03/2025 18:28, Scott wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 17:42:22 +0000, Nick Odell <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:50:41 +0000, Scott
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am planning a trip from Glasgow to Newton Abbot (and back) in May. I
    understand from the Avanti website that off-peak return tickets
    'generally' allow break of journey in either direction.

    Could I travel from Glasgow to Birmingham New Street (to look at some
    trams), spend two nights in Birmingham, then travel to Taunton (to
    visit the West Somerset Railway), spend two nights in Taunton then
    travel to Newton Abbot or would this be taking the p*ss?

    My opinion (and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it) is
    that you could do it on the return leg but not on the outward one.

    If you look at the paper ticket (or presumably somewhere on your phone
    if you have your tickets sent to your phone) the outbound ticket is
    printed with the words "Valid on" followed by the actual date of the
    outbound journey and the return ticket is printed "Valid until" with a
    date approximately one month after the outbound ticket date. The
    return ticket is the one you could probably play around with -
    provided that starting your return journey doesn't set some cunning
    countdown mechanism into play. You might want to look into that
    aspect.

    Thanks. Found it on Avanti website. This seems to cover the situation:

    Ticket Description

    Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are
    less busy. You may need to travel at specific times of the day, days
    of the week and sometimes on specific routes or operators.The times
    when you may use your Off-Peak ticket will depend on the journey you
    are making and you will be advised when buying your ticket. The
    National Rail Journey Planner will automatically work out which
    tickets are valid for your journey. Valid by the route shown - Outward
    Within 01 Day, Return Within 01 Month

    While a ticket may be valid, say, for one month for a return journey the
    T&C may indicate that once you board the first train for the return the
    journey must be completed within that day or within a certain limited
    time and/or must be completed via certain (more) direct routes.




    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

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  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to Theo on Tue Mar 25 17:12:36 2025
    XPost: uk.railway

    On 24/03/2025 19:05, Theo wrote:
    Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
    Thanks. Found it on Avanti website. This seems to cover the situation:

    Ticket Description

    Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are
    less busy. You may need to travel at specific times of the day, days
    of the week and sometimes on specific routes or operators.The times
    when you may use your Off-Peak ticket will depend on the journey you
    are making and you will be advised when buying your ticket. The
    National Rail Journey Planner will automatically work out which
    tickets are valid for your journey. Valid by the route shown - Outward
    Within 01 Day, Return Within 01 Month

    Yes, BoJ and ticket validity are separate things. The outward of an Offpeak is valid on one day only. If BoJ is allowed it means you could stop off for several hours for, say, a football match and then resume your journey. You couldn't break for a day or more then resume. (although I think you could continue onto the next day after 4.30am if you started travelling before then, but with no further BoJ)

    An Anytime Return allows 5 days for the outward (including unlimited BoJ
    where permitted). But you may find buying separate tickets is cheaper.

    Theo

    But while a ticket may be valid, say, for one month for a return jo

    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

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  • From Graeme@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Mar 27 13:14:08 2025
    In message <[email protected]>, Alan J. Wylie
    <[email protected]> writes

    It's often cheaper to buy several tickets to "split" your journey into >different legs.

    JOOI, does the train have to stop at a 'split' station?

    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings Cross
    and found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to Cambridge
    plus a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use a train which
    did not stop at Cambridge?
    --
    Graeme

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 27 14:09:33 2025
    In message <[email protected]>, at 13:26:38 on Thu, 27
    Mar 2025, Andy Burns <[email protected]> remarked:
    Graeme wrote:

    JOOI, does the train have to stop at a 'split' station?

    Technically it has to be scheduled to stop at that station (I suppose
    there might turn out to be a reason it is unable to do so) but you
    don't have to get off and on again.

    Back in ye olden days the rule was that at least one train a day on the
    flow had to stop, but they changed it to *your* train stopping.

    Additionally some stations are classed as "pick up" or "set down" only, >they're invalid for splitting.

    Although there are some such trains, I've never encountered a rule which affects split ticketing.

    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings Cross
    and found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to
    Cambridge plus a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use a
    train which did not stop at Cambridge?

    No. Though I have witnessed a ticket inspector let someone off.

    As it happens, Cambridge is one of those stations where every* passenger
    train stops.

    * Apart from extremely rare exceptions like the Royal Train, or
    diversions during engineering works.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Graeme on Thu Mar 27 13:26:38 2025
    Graeme wrote:

    JOOI, does the train have to stop at a 'split' station?

    Technically it has to be scheduled to stop at that station (I suppose
    there might turn out to be a reason it is unable to do so) but you don't
    have to get off and on again.

    Additionally some stations are classed as "pick up" or "set down" only,
    they're invalid for splitting.

    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings Cross
    and found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to Cambridge
    plus a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use a train which
    did not stop at Cambridge?

    No. Though I have witnessed a ticket inspector let someone off.

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Graeme on Thu Mar 27 15:44:01 2025
    Graeme <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <[email protected]>, Alan J. Wylie
    <[email protected]> writes

    It's often cheaper to buy several tickets to "split" your journey into >different legs.

    JOOI, does the train have to stop at a 'split' station?

    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings Cross
    and found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to Cambridge
    plus a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use a train which
    did not stop at Cambridge?

    No, and as a result it would force you to route via Cambridge. ie you
    couldn't just catch the direct train from Aberdeen to King's Cross which
    would go straight down the ECML (via Huntingdon) and not pass through Cambridge. Even if it was sent that way due to engineering works (it
    happens occasionally) it would need a timetabled stop at Cambridge for your ticket split to be valid - not just an operational stop to change crew or whatever.

    Theo

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Nick Finnigan on Thu Mar 27 17:11:56 2025
    Nick Finnigan wrote:

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to
    Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that a
    side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

    I wonder if you're travelling on electronic tickets in an app, whether
    it GPS tracks you, to detect sneaky moves like that?

    Also if you're on a train so busy the collector doesn't complete all
    coaches, and you decide to try and refund the ticket as "unused", would
    they say "that's funny, your phone departed station abc at the same time
    as our xx:yy o'clock service and followed the route of the xyz line"?

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  • From Nick Finnigan@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Thu Mar 27 16:41:52 2025
    On 27/03/2025 13:26, Andy Burns wrote:
    Graeme wrote:

    JOOI, does the train have to stop at a 'split' station?

    Technically it has to be scheduled to stop at that station (I suppose there might turn out to be a reason it is unable to do so) but you don't have to get off and on again.

    Additionally some stations are classed as "pick up" or "set down" only, they're invalid for splitting.

    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings Cross and
    found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to Cambridge plus
    a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use a train which did not
    stop at Cambridge?

    I think you would have to use a train which did not stop at Cambridge.

    No. Though I have witnessed a ticket inspector let someone off.

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to
    Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that a
    side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Thu Mar 27 18:03:38 2025
    Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
    Nick Finnigan wrote:

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to
    Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that a side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

    You'd need to take a train that stopped at Hitchin. So that would be a
    train from Aberdeen to Peterborough and then change onto a slower Thameslink train that stopped at Hitchin.

    If there weren't on-train checks between Peterborough and Hitchin then you might get away with it, but it would be technically against the T&C.

    If revenue protection stopped you at the gateline and asked for your story, they could spot something that didn't make sense (eg if you claimed to be coming off a train you boarded in Cambridge but the train you'd been
    observed coming off was a Peterborough one). But that's only likely if they had reason to question you in the first place.

    I wonder if you're travelling on electronic tickets in an app, whether
    it GPS tracks you, to detect sneaky moves like that?

    I don't think so. There's a collection of apps from different ticket
    vendors and different train companies, so I can't see how/why they would orchestrate such tracking. ie if you bought your ticket in the Trainline
    app then why would Trainline track you?

    Also if you're on a train so busy the collector doesn't complete all
    coaches, and you decide to try and refund the ticket as "unused", would
    they say "that's funny, your phone departed station abc at the same time
    as our xx:yy o'clock service and followed the route of the xyz line"?

    They may have access to gate scan information ('your ticket was scanned at
    ABC at 14:42'). I suppose if you scanned in at Edinburgh at 14:42 and out
    at King's Cross at 19:59 there's no way you could have made a side trip to Cambridge. But that would only likely come into play if the fraud investigators were called.

    Theo

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  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Thu Mar 27 20:41:18 2025
    On 27/03/2025 14:09, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <[email protected]>, at 13:26:38 on Thu, 27
    Mar 2025, Andy Burns <[email protected]> remarked:

    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings Cross
    and found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to
    Cambridge  plus a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use a
    train which  did not stop at Cambridge?



    As it happens, Cambridge is one of those stations where every* passenger train stops.

    the ones from Aberdeen to Kins Cross don't :)

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  • From Nick Finnigan@21:1/5 to Theo on Thu Mar 27 23:32:47 2025
    On 27/03/2025 18:03, Theo wrote:
    Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
    Nick Finnigan wrote:

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to
    Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that a >>> side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

    You'd need to take a train that stopped at Hitchin. So that would be a
    train from Aberdeen to Peterborough and then change onto a slower Thameslink train that stopped at Hitchin.

    If there weren't on-train checks between Peterborough and Hitchin then you might get away with it, but it would be technically against the T&C.

    Would Aberdeen to Cambridge not permit Peterborough to Hitchin?
    (Yes, I realise it is not very practical.)

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 08:06:35 2025
    In message <vs4d5e$12j6i$[email protected]>, at 20:41:18 on Thu, 27 Mar
    2025, Andrew <[email protected]> remarked:
    On 27/03/2025 14:09, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <[email protected]>, at 13:26:38 on Thu, 27
    Mar 2025, Andy Burns <[email protected]> remarked:

    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings
    Cross and found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to >>>>Cambridge� plus a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use
    a train which� did not stop at Cambridge?


    As it happens, Cambridge is one of those stations where every*
    passenger train stops.

    the ones from Aberdeen to Kins Cross don't :)

    There's no direct train from Aberdeen via Cambridge, and every train if
    you construct a multi-leg trip, does.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 08:21:12 2025
    In message <[email protected]>, at 17:11:56 on Thu, 27
    Mar 2025, Andy Burns <[email protected]> remarked:
    Nick Finnigan wrote:

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to >>Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that
    a side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

    I wonder if you're travelling on electronic tickets in an app, whether
    it GPS tracks you, to detect sneaky moves like that?

    No, that's far too hi-tech for the train companies. There was supposed
    to be a pilot scheme about ten years ago on Greater Anglia to provide ticketless travel by logging GPS, then work out an appropriate fare
    later. But I'm not sure it got of the drawing board, and is certainly
    not deployed.

    Also if you're on a train so busy the collector

    What collector? They simply don't exist on the very vast majority of
    trains involved (ie Outer Suburban out of Kings Cross).

    doesn't complete all coaches, and you decide to try and refund the
    ticket as "unused", would they say "that's funny, your phone departed
    station abc at the same time as our xx:yy o'clock service and followed
    the route of the xyz line"?

    Science fiction.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From charles@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Mar 28 08:30:02 2025
    In article <vs4d5e$12j6i$[email protected]>, Andrew
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 27/03/2025 14:09, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <[email protected]>, at 13:26:38 on Thu, 27
    Mar 2025, Andy Burns <[email protected]> remarked:

    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings Cross
    and found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to
    Cambridge plus a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use a
    train which did not stop at Cambridge?



    As it happens, Cambridge is one of those stations where every*
    passenger train stops.

    the ones from Aberdeen to Kins Cross don't :)

    That's probably because they don't go via Cambridge

    --
    from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t�
    "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 08:28:06 2025
    In message <vs4n70$27535$[email protected]>, at 23:32:47 on Thu, 27 Mar
    2025, Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> remarked:
    On 27/03/2025 18:03, Theo wrote:
    Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
    Nick Finnigan wrote:

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to
    Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that a >>>> side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

    You'd need to take a train that stopped at Hitchin. So that would
    be a train from Aberdeen to Peterborough and then change onto a
    slower Thameslink train that stopped at Hitchin.

    If there weren't on-train checks between Peterborough and Hitchin then you >> might get away with it, but it would be technically against the T&C.

    Would Aberdeen to Cambridge not permit Peterborough to Hitchin?
    (Yes, I realise it is not very practical.)

    I just checked, and it is valid if you buy the "Any Permitted" rather
    than the very sightly cheaper "via Ely" ticket.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 08:16:25 2025
    In message <vs3v4g$27535$[email protected]>, at 16:41:52 on Thu, 27 Mar
    2025, Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> remarked:
    On 27/03/2025 13:26, Andy Burns wrote:
    Graeme wrote:

    JOOI, does the train have to stop at a 'split' station?
    Technically it has to be scheduled to stop at that station (I
    suppose there might turn out to be a reason it is unable to do so)
    but you don't have to get off and on again.
    Additionally some stations are classed as "pick up" or "set down"
    only, they're invalid for splitting.

    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings
    Cross and found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to >>>Cambridge plus a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use a >>>train which did not stop at Cambridge?

    I think you would have to use a train which did not stop at Cambridge.

    You can't catch a train which doesn't stop at Cambridge, because there
    aren't any.

    No. Though I have witnessed a ticket inspector let someone off.

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to
    Cambridge,

    That's easily determined by asking a ticketing site for "via Hitchin" as
    well as "via Ely". If it gives the same result then both routes are
    valid. Generally, the further away you start the journey, the more
    likely it is.

    and Cambridge to King's Cross.

    That's always valid, but like trains on the ECML, not all of them stop.
    So changing from an InterCity will require changing first at
    Peterborough, and then that train will end up at St Pancras (but for
    ticketing purposes that's OK).

    Could an inspector spot that a side trip to Cambridge had not been made

    You see a ticket inspector on those Thameslink trains once in a blue
    moon.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Nick Finnigan on Fri Mar 28 08:44:54 2025
    Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 27/03/2025 18:03, Theo wrote:
    Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
    Nick Finnigan wrote:

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to
    Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that a >>> side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

    You'd need to take a train that stopped at Hitchin. So that would be a train from Aberdeen to Peterborough and then change onto a slower Thameslink
    train that stopped at Hitchin.

    If there weren't on-train checks between Peterborough and Hitchin then you might get away with it, but it would be technically against the T&C.

    Would Aberdeen to Cambridge not permit Peterborough to Hitchin?
    (Yes, I realise it is not very practical.)

    Mapped routes LONDON, AA and EC+KE. Looks like the first and third would
    allow travel via Hitchin, in which case if you had a 'Route Any Permitted' flexible ticket then you could do that. If you had an advance ticket you'd have to travel on the specific trains chosen.

    https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/routeing-guide/
    for the gory details and maps.

    Theo

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  • From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 08:55:08 2025
    On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 08:21:12 +0000, Roland Perry <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In message <[email protected]>, at 17:11:56 on Thu, 27
    Mar 2025, Andy Burns <[email protected]> remarked:
    Nick Finnigan wrote:

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to >>>Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that
    a side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

    I wonder if you're travelling on electronic tickets in an app, whether
    it GPS tracks you, to detect sneaky moves like that?

    No, that's far too hi-tech for the train companies. There was supposed
    to be a pilot scheme about ten years ago on Greater Anglia to provide >ticketless travel by logging GPS, then work out an appropriate fare
    later. But I'm not sure it got of the drawing board, and is certainly
    not deployed.

    I can see why. If you walk or cycle you could be charged for a train
    journey you never made :-)

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  • From Nick Finnigan@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Fri Mar 28 09:05:05 2025
    On 28/03/2025 08:16, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <vs3v4g$27535$[email protected]>, at 16:41:52 on Thu, 27 Mar 2025, Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> remarked:
    On 27/03/2025 13:26, Andy Burns wrote:
    Graeme wrote:


    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings Cross
    and  found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen to
    Cambridge plus  a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I use a >>>> train which did not  stop at Cambridge?

    I think you would have to use a train which did not stop at Cambridge.

    You can't catch a train which doesn't stop at Cambridge, because there
    aren't any.

    All the trains from Aberdeen stop at Cambridge ?

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 16:59:19 2025
    In message <[email protected]>, at 08:55:08 on
    Fri, 28 Mar 2025, Scott <[email protected]> remarked:

    I wonder if you're travelling on electronic tickets in an app, whether
    it GPS tracks you, to detect sneaky moves like that?

    No, that's far too hi-tech for the train companies. There was supposed
    to be a pilot scheme about ten years ago on Greater Anglia to provide >>ticketless travel by logging GPS, then work out an appropriate fare
    later. But I'm not sure it got of the drawing board, and is certainly
    not deployed.

    I can see why. If you walk or cycle you could be charged for a train
    journey you never made :-)

    Except the accelerometers in the phone can tell if your trip was
    walking, cycling, car, train etc. Just from the bouncing around,
    not even the more obvious "what was their speed and did it correlate
    with a timetabled train".
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 17:01:20 2025
    In message <vs5oo2$27535$[email protected]>, at 09:05:05 on Fri, 28 Mar
    2025, Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> remarked:
    On 28/03/2025 08:16, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <vs3v4g$27535$[email protected]>, at 16:41:52 on Thu, 27 Mar >>2025, Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> remarked:
    On 27/03/2025 13:26, Andy Burns wrote:
    Graeme wrote:


    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings >>>>>Cross and� found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen
    to Cambridge plus� a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I >>>>>use a train which did not� stop at Cambridge?

    I think you would have to use a train which did not stop at Cambridge.

    You can't catch a train which doesn't stop at Cambridge, because
    there aren't any.

    All the trains from Aberdeen stop at Cambridge ?

    Oh really, please keep up! There are no direct trains from Aberdeen
    which go via Cambridge. Either stopping or non-stopping.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From Nick Finnigan@21:1/5 to Theo on Fri Mar 28 17:42:01 2025
    On 28/03/2025 08:44, Theo wrote:
    Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 27/03/2025 18:03, Theo wrote:
    Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
    Nick Finnigan wrote:

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to
    Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that a >>>>> side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

    You'd need to take a train that stopped at Hitchin. So that would be a
    train from Aberdeen to Peterborough and then change onto a slower Thameslink
    train that stopped at Hitchin.

    If there weren't on-train checks between Peterborough and Hitchin then you >>> might get away with it, but it would be technically against the T&C.

    Would Aberdeen to Cambridge not permit Peterborough to Hitchin?
    (Yes, I realise it is not very practical.)

    Mapped routes LONDON, AA and EC+KE. Looks like the first and third would allow travel via Hitchin, in which case if you had a 'Route Any Permitted' flexible ticket then you could do that. If you had an advance ticket you'd have to travel on the specific trains chosen.

    https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/routeing-guide/
    for the gory details and maps.

    ... and so could you actually stay on to LONDON with the Aberdeen to Cambridge 'Route any Permitted' ?

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  • From Nick Finnigan@21:1/5 to Roland Perry on Fri Mar 28 17:21:27 2025
    On 28/03/2025 17:01, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <vs5oo2$27535$[email protected]>, at 09:05:05 on Fri, 28 Mar 2025, Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> remarked:
    On 28/03/2025 08:16, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <vs3v4g$27535$[email protected]>, at 16:41:52 on Thu, 27 Mar
    2025,  Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> remarked:
    On 27/03/2025 13:26, Andy Burns wrote:
    Graeme wrote:


    Put another way, were I travelling from, say, Aberdeen to Kings
    Cross  and  found the cheapest option being a ticket from Aberdeen >>>>>> to  Cambridge plus  a ticket from Cambridge to Kings Cross, could I >>>>>> use a  train which did not  stop at Cambridge?

    I think you would have to use a train which did not stop at Cambridge.

     You can't catch a train which doesn't stop at Cambridge, because there >>> aren't any.

    All the trains from Aberdeen stop at Cambridge ?

    Oh really, please keep up! There are no direct trains from Aberdeen which
    go via Cambridge. Either stopping or non-stopping.

    Yes, so you would have to use a train which did not stop at Cambridge.

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Nick Finnigan on Fri Mar 28 17:53:50 2025
    Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 28/03/2025 08:44, Theo wrote:
    Nick Finnigan <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 27/03/2025 18:03, Theo wrote:
    Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
    Nick Finnigan wrote:

    It may be that changing at Hitchin is valid for both Aberdeen to
    Cambridge, and Cambridge to King's Cross. Could an inspector spot that a
    side trip to Cambridge had not been made ?

    You'd need to take a train that stopped at Hitchin. So that would be a >>> train from Aberdeen to Peterborough and then change onto a slower Thameslink
    train that stopped at Hitchin.

    If there weren't on-train checks between Peterborough and Hitchin then you
    might get away with it, but it would be technically against the T&C.

    Would Aberdeen to Cambridge not permit Peterborough to Hitchin?
    (Yes, I realise it is not very practical.)

    Mapped routes LONDON, AA and EC+KE. Looks like the first and third would allow travel via Hitchin, in which case if you had a 'Route Any Permitted' flexible ticket then you could do that. If you had an advance ticket you'd have to travel on the specific trains chosen.

    https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/routeing-guide/
    for the gory details and maps.

    ... and so could you actually stay on to LONDON with the Aberdeen to Cambridge 'Route any Permitted' ?

    Yes, but it appears there's no such fare:

    Aberdeen to London
    Anytime Single £232.10 Route Any Permitted
    Super Offpeak Single £115.40 Route Any Permitted
    (the latter has NOT VALID ARRIVING INTO LONDON BEFORE 1117 M-F) https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=ABD&dest=1072&period=20250302

    Aberdeen to Cambridge
    Anytime Single £220.00 Route Not Via London
    Super Offpeak Single £114.90 Route Not Via London https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=ABD&dest=CBG&period=20250302

    (there are no returns between major stations on LNER any more, it's all
    singles only. The rest of the tickets are Advances which need you to
    specify a train)

    Theo

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