Local Police report of car theft initiated by *recording* the key fob
signal!
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used
within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the real fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used
within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the real fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
On 08/03/2025 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used
within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the real fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
Hmm. I don't suppose anyone would bother stealing our 12 and 15 year old
cars anyway.
Perhaps we could return to key entry/ignition or is that difficult?
Local Police report of car theft initiated by *recording* the key fob
signal!
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used
within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the real fob.
The most vulnerable are fobs which transmit periodically
for the purpose of unlocking the car when the owner is near.
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used
within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the real fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
Along with touchscreen controls and not having a spare tyre, keyless
entry is on my list of anti-features for cars I will not buy.
Local Police report of car theft initiated by *recording* the key fob
signal!
On 08/03/2025 9:51, Timatmarford wrote:Assuming there is no challenge-response time situatron
Local Police report of car theft initiated by *recording* the key fob
signal!
As its a rolling code, you need to record the code from the key, but
prevent the car receiver from receiving it. If you can do that you can
then open the car...
Dave
On 08/03/2025 16:06, David Wade wrote:
On 08/03/2025 9:51, Timatmarford wrote:Assuming there is no challenge-response time situatron
Local Police report of car theft initiated by *recording* the key fob
signal!
As its a rolling code, you need to record the code from the key, but
prevent the car receiver from receiving it. If you can do that you can
then open the car...
Dave
But how to you record a code that doesn't get to the car?
If you have the fob, then you don't need to, and if you don't, why would anyone press it when they couldn't actually open the car?
Joe wrote:
The most vulnerable are fobs which transmit periodically
for the purpose of unlocking the car when the owner is near.
Along with touchscreen controls and not having a spare tyre, keyless
entry is on my list of anti-features for cars I will not buy.
On 08/03/2025 19:19, Sam Plusnet wrote:
My (7 year old) car has keyless entry - backed up by an old fashioned
lock in the door handle (you have to remove something to discover it),
which is operated by a key hidden in the fob.
Isn't that the norm?
Do you still have to press the fob to unlock?
With "keyless" entry you keep the fob in your pocket and as long as
you're close enough, you just grab the handle and open the door, no
need to touch the fob.
My (7 year old) car has keyless entry - backed up by an old fashioned
lock in the door handle (you have to remove something to discover it),
which is operated by a key hidden in the fob.
Isn't that the norm?
On 08/03/2025 19:19, Sam Plusnet wrote:
My (7 year old) car has keyless entry - backed up by an old fashioned
lock in the door handle (you have to remove something to discover it),
which is operated by a key hidden in the fob.
Isn't that the norm?
Do you still have to press the fob to unlock?
With "keyless" entry you keep the fob in your pocket and as long as
you're close enough, you just grab the handle and open the door, no
need to touch the fob.
On 08/03/2025 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used
within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the real fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
Hmm. I don't suppose anyone would bother stealing our 12 and 15 year old
cars anyway.
Perhaps we could return to key entry/ignition or is that difficult?
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:
On 08/03/2025 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:Some cars are desirable than others, mates freelander which was about 11 years old was taken by them reading his keys remotely by a crime gang the police were watching which they suspected was going to be used as ram vehicle. In they end the gang must have realised they were
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each time are >>>> gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used
within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the real fob. >>>
Hmm. I don't suppose anyone would bother stealing our 12 and 15 year old
cars anyway.
Perhaps we could return to key entry/ignition or is that difficult?
being observed and dumped it but too damaged mechanically to be
economically repaired.
Recently around here a few peoples security cameras have picked up
suspicious hoodie wearing masked characters in or near their property , one waves a long object around and it is thought to be some sort of scanner
with a long antenna looking for key codes.
Best keep such keys in a box designed to prevent that.
On 09/03/2025 09:21, Marland wrote:
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:
On 08/03/2025 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:Some cars are desirable than others, mates freelander which was about 11
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each time
are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used
within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the real
fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
Hmm. I don't suppose anyone would bother stealing our 12 and 15 year old >>> cars anyway.
Perhaps we could return to key entry/ignition or is that difficult?
years old was taken by them reading his keys remotely by a crime gang the
police were watching which they suspected was going to be used as ram
vehicle. In they end the gang must have realised they were
being observed and dumped it but too damaged mechanically to be
economically repaired.
Recently around here a few peoples security cameras have picked up
suspicious hoodie wearing masked characters in or near their
property , one
waves a long object around and it is thought to be some sort of scanner
with a long antenna looking for key codes.
Best keep such keys in a box designed to prevent that.
We keep ours in Faraday wallets, but it's a hassle getting them out, as
they don't always want to slide out and, with something in your other
hand, it's difficult to fish them out. Overall they're a seriously
increased security risk, that is actually more inconvenient that just pressing a button on the fob in the first place! Totally unnecessary
tech, with no though for consequences.
On 09/03/2025 12:12, SteveW wrote:
On 09/03/2025 09:21, Marland wrote:
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:
On 08/03/2025 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:Some cars are desirable than others, mates freelander which was about 11 >>> years old was taken by them reading his keys remotely by a crime gang the >>> police were watching which they suspected was going to be used as ram
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each time >>>>>> are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used >>>>>> within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the real >>>>>> fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
Hmm. I don't suppose anyone would bother stealing our 12 and 15 year old >>>> cars anyway.
Perhaps we could return to key entry/ignition or is that difficult?
vehicle. In they end the gang must have realised they were
being observed and dumped it but too damaged mechanically to be
economically repaired.
Recently around here a few peoples security cameras have picked up
suspicious hoodie wearing masked characters in or near their
property , one
waves a long object around and it is thought to be some sort of scanner
with a long antenna looking for key codes.
Best keep such keys in a box designed to prevent that.
We keep ours in Faraday wallets, but it's a hassle getting them out, as
they don't always want to slide out and, with something in your other
hand, it's difficult to fish them out. Overall they're a seriously
increased security risk, that is actually more inconvenient that just
pressing a button on the fob in the first place! Totally unnecessary
tech, with no though for consequences.
I am not sure of the efficacy of cheap Faraday Wallets. When my key is
in my pocket, in a Faraday Wallet, admittedly from Amazon, I can still
open the door on my VW Tiguan.
I think a small biscuit tin might be better....
Dave
On 09/03/2025 12:12, SteveW wrote:
On 09/03/2025 09:21, Marland wrote:
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:
On 08/03/2025 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:Some cars are desirable than others, mates freelander which was
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each
time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be
used within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from
the real fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
Hmm. I don't suppose anyone would bother stealing our 12 and 15
year old cars anyway.
Perhaps we could return to key entry/ignition or is that
difficult?
about 11 years old was taken by them reading his keys remotely by
a crime gang the police were watching which they suspected was
going to be used as ram vehicle. In they end the gang must have
realised they were being observed and dumped it but too damaged
mechanically to be economically repaired.
Recently around here a few peoples security cameras have picked up
suspicious hoodie wearing masked characters in or near their
property , one
waves a long object around and it is thought to be some sort of
scanner with a long antenna looking for key codes.
Best keep such keys in a box designed to prevent that.
We keep ours in Faraday wallets, but it's a hassle getting them
out, as they don't always want to slide out and, with something in
your other hand, it's difficult to fish them out. Overall they're a seriously increased security risk, that is actually more
inconvenient that just pressing a button on the fob in the first
place! Totally unnecessary tech, with no though for consequences.
I am not sure of the efficacy of cheap Faraday Wallets. When my key
is in my pocket, in a Faraday Wallet, admittedly from Amazon, I can
still open the door on my VW Tiguan.
I think a small biscuit tin might be better....
Dave
I just tried mine. The car is a 1917 BMW 3-series, the fob is only
Davey wrote:
... snipped
I just tried mine. The car is a 1917 BMW 3-series, the fob is only
... snipped
BMW only started making cars in the previous year so they probably
hadn't got the tech sorted properly by 1917 ;-)
On 09/03/2025 12:12, SteveW wrote:
On 09/03/2025 09:21, Marland wrote:
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:
On 08/03/2025 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:Some cars are desirable than others, mates freelander which was about 11 >>> years old was taken by them reading his keys remotely by a crime gang
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each
time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used >>>>>> within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the
real fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
Hmm. I don't suppose anyone would bother stealing our 12 and 15 year
old
cars anyway.
Perhaps we could return to key entry/ignition or is that difficult?
the
police were watching which they suspected was going to be used as ram
vehicle. In they end the gang must have realised they were
being observed and dumped it but too damaged mechanically to be
economically repaired.
Recently around here a few peoples security cameras have picked up
suspicious hoodie wearing masked characters in or near their
property , one
waves a long object around and it is thought to be some sort of scanner
with a long antenna looking for key codes.
Best keep such keys in a box designed to prevent that.
We keep ours in Faraday wallets, but it's a hassle getting them out,
as they don't always want to slide out and, with something in your
other hand, it's difficult to fish them out. Overall they're a
seriously increased security risk, that is actually more inconvenient
that just pressing a button on the fob in the first place! Totally
unnecessary tech, with no though for consequences.
I am not sure of the efficacy of cheap Faraday Wallets. When my key is
in my pocket, in a Faraday Wallet, admittedly from Amazon, I can still
open the door on my VW Tiguan.
I think a small biscuit tin might be better....
On 09/03/2025 12:35, David Wade wrote:
On 09/03/2025 12:12, SteveW wrote:
On 09/03/2025 09:21, Marland wrote:
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:
On 08/03/2025 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:Some cars are desirable than others, mates freelander which was
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each
time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used >>>>>>> within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the
real fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
Hmm. I don't suppose anyone would bother stealing our 12 and 15
year old
cars anyway.
Perhaps we could return to key entry/ignition or is that difficult? >>>>>>
about 11
years old was taken by them reading his keys remotely by a crime
gang the
police were watching which they suspected was going to be used as ram
vehicle. In they end the gang must have realised they were
being observed and dumped it but too damaged mechanically to be
economically repaired.
Recently around here a few peoples security cameras have picked up
suspicious hoodie wearing masked characters in or near their
property , one
waves a long object around and it is thought to be some sort of scanner >>>> with a long antenna looking for key codes.
Best keep such keys in a box designed to prevent that.
We keep ours in Faraday wallets, but it's a hassle getting them out,
as they don't always want to slide out and, with something in your
other hand, it's difficult to fish them out. Overall they're a
seriously increased security risk, that is actually more inconvenient
that just pressing a button on the fob in the first place! Totally
unnecessary tech, with no though for consequences.
I am not sure of the efficacy of cheap Faraday Wallets. When my key is
in my pocket, in a Faraday Wallet, admittedly from Amazon, I can still
open the door on my VW Tiguan.
I think a small biscuit tin might be better....
Definitely can't open ours, even when stood within inches of it.
On 09/03/2025 21:23, SteveW wrote:
On 09/03/2025 12:35, David Wade wrote:
On 09/03/2025 12:12, SteveW wrote:
On 09/03/2025 09:21, Marland wrote:
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:
On 08/03/2025 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:Some cars are desirable than others, mates freelander which was
On Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:44:26 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
Timatmarford wrote:
[quoted text muted]
The days of fobs transmitting the same code over and over each >>>>>>>> time are
gone, now the recording is of the rolling code, it needs to be used >>>>>>>> within a certain number of codes the car is expecting from the >>>>>>>> real fob.
I doubt it's that secure. That would cost money.
Hmm. I don't suppose anyone would bother stealing our 12 and 15
year old
cars anyway.
Perhaps we could return to key entry/ignition or is that difficult? >>>>>>>
about 11
years old was taken by them reading his keys remotely by a crime
gang the
police were watching which they suspected was going to be used as ram >>>>> vehicle. In they end the gang must have realised they were
being observed and dumped it but too damaged mechanically to be
economically repaired.
Recently around here a few peoples security cameras have picked up
suspicious hoodie wearing masked characters in or near their
property , one
waves a long object around and it is thought to be some sort of scanner >>>>> with a long antenna looking for key codes.
Best keep such keys in a box designed to prevent that.
We keep ours in Faraday wallets, but it's a hassle getting them out,
as they don't always want to slide out and, with something in your
other hand, it's difficult to fish them out. Overall they're a
seriously increased security risk, that is actually more inconvenient
that just pressing a button on the fob in the first place! Totally
unnecessary tech, with no though for consequences.
I am not sure of the efficacy of cheap Faraday Wallets. When my key is
in my pocket, in a Faraday Wallet, admittedly from Amazon, I can still
open the door on my VW Tiguan.
I think a small biscuit tin might be better....
Definitely can't open ours, even when stood within inches of it.
I had a car like that once.
I finally managed it with a coat hanger.
Joe wrote:
The most vulnerable are fobs which transmit periodically
for the purpose of unlocking the car when the owner is near.
Along with touchscreen controls and not having a spare tyre, keyless
entry is on my list of anti-features for cars I will not buy.
Andy Burns wrote:
Along with touchscreen controls and not having a spare tyre, keyless
entry is on my list of anti-features for cars I will not buy.
electric handbrake, or that lever between the front seats ?
On 08/03/2025 10:44, Andy Burns wrote:
Joe wrote:
The most vulnerable are fobs which transmit periodically
for the purpose of unlocking the car when the owner is near.
Along with touchscreen controls and not having a spare tyre, keyless
entry is on my list of anti-features for cars I will not buy.
electric handbrake, or that lever between the front seats ?
David Wade <[email protected]d> wrote:Mine has no spare and bloody awful runflats. The space where the spare
He said that they don't offer a spare wheel because it would then be
different to the car submitted for emissions and fuel economy testing...
.. so yes they could provide one as an aftermarket add-on but not as
original equipment....
... sounded pretty weird to me.....
One reason for a spare wheel delete is because it reduces weight, which reduces emissions. eg if the vehicle was at 100gCO2/km it's very handy to get it to 99gCO2/km because then it (was) in a lower tax bracket.
I'm now envisioning racks of spare wheels next to the checkout in the dealership, so you can add one to your trolley while you're waiting to
pay...
Theo
I gather you need at use an OBD cable to change brake pads
He said that they don't offer a spare wheel because it would then be different to the car submitted for emissions and fuel economy testing...
.. so yes they could provide one as an aftermarket add-on but not as
original equipment....
... sounded pretty weird to me.....
On 13/03/2025 0:02, Andrew wrote:
On 08/03/2025 10:44, Andy Burns wrote:
Joe wrote:
The most vulnerable are fobs which transmit periodically
for the purpose of unlocking the car when the owner is near.
Along with touchscreen controls and not having a spare tyre,
keyless entry is on my list of anti-features for cars I will not
buy.
electric handbrake, or that lever between the front seats ?
My VW Tiguan came without a spare wheel. I bought one from a
specialist provider, but of course the boot flow now flops, so whilst
I was having some other work done, I mentioned this to the "Spares
Manager".
He said that they don't offer a spare wheel because it would then be different to the car submitted for emissions and fuel economy
testing... .. so yes they could provide one as an aftermarket add-on
but not as original equipment....
... sounded pretty weird to me.....
Lots of cost savings. No tools, no captive nut to secure tools and
spare wheel and more importantly, no well-defined jacking points. All
you can do is look for something that appears pretty strong, and shove a
jack under it. And with a tyre flat, that's not always easy. Less ground clearance, more aerodynamic.
On 13/03/2025 06:51, Andy Burns wrote:That may be an alternate method, but certainly on VW/AUDI there's a
I gather you need at use an OBD cable to change brake pads
No. They use a DC motor which is driven one way to apply the parking
brake and the current reversed to release the brake. As the motor
reaches the end of its travel and stalls, the circuit sees the current
rise significantly and removes the power.
You can self-service the pads yourself by using a 12v battery and a
couple of wires pushed into the connector to exercise the motor.
On 13/03/2025 11:40, mm0fmf wrote:Well yes there may well be, but I got that method when I owned an A5 3.0
On 13/03/2025 06:51, Andy Burns wrote:That may be an alternate method, but certainly on VW/AUDI there's a
I gather you need at use an OBD cable to change brake pads
No. They use a DC motor which is driven one way to apply the parking
brake and the current reversed to release the brake. As the motor
reaches the end of its travel and stalls, the circuit sees the current
rise significantly and removes the power.
You can self-service the pads yourself by using a 12v battery and a
couple of wires pushed into the connector to exercise the motor.
command to back the brake pads off for replacement.
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