Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short stop
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as it's
now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being 85 with
the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of the controls
do!
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
I think the display gadgetry is much the same in all cars nowadays!
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4 seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
nib wrote:
I think the display gadgetry is much the same in all cars nowadays!
My car has one screen for the dashboard, and another screen on the
console for its built-in maps, radio/music, etc, but it has physical switches, knobs and buttons for everything and I will not switch to a touch-screen based car ...
I bought a Skoda Enyaq because it could carry my harp flat (with the back >seats folded down), but there are plenty of others if you don't need that >facilty.
Don't be like my late mother. who forgot where the brake pedal was..
A few years before forgetting everything else, including how to breathe...
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
On 15/02/2025 in message <[email protected]> charles wrote:
I bought a Skoda Enyaq because it could carry my harp flat (with the back
seats folded down), but there are plenty of others if you don't need that
facilty.
Do you carry your harp in case St. Peter calls while you are out and
about :-)
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in
a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
So assuming an extra 50% amperage for the charging cable to minimise heating/resistive losses
You'd require cable capabile of carrying 1000A.
Domestic meter tails are 25 mm2 and good for 100A continuous current
So 1000A cable would require 250 mm2 which is a cable diameter of 18 mm
plus insulation, and you'd need 3 of these for live, neutral and earth.
So you're looking at a hookup cable of around 50 mm diameter?
On 15/02/2025 in message <[email protected]> charles
wrote:
I bought a Skoda Enyaq because it could carry my harp flat (with the
back seats folded down), but there are plenty of others if you don't
need that facilty.
Do you carry your harp in case St. Peter calls while you are out and
about
:-)
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added >>>> per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
assuming an extra 50% amperage for the charging cable to minimise heating/resistive losses
You'd require cable capabile of carrying 1000A.
nib <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added >>>>> per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short >>>>> stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
Tim
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in
a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in
a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
So assuming an extra 50% amperage for the charging cable to minimise heating/resistive losses
You'd require cable capabile of carrying 1000A.
Domestic meter tails are 25 mm2 and good for 100A continuous current
So 1000A cable would require 250 mm2 which is a cable diameter of 18 mm
plus insulation, and you'd need 3 of these for live, neutral and earth.
So you're looking at a hookup cable of around 50 mm diameter?
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added >>>>>> per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
On 15/02/2025 10:50, The Other John wrote:
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
Don't be like my late mother. who forgot where the brake pedal was..
A few years before forgetting everything else, including how to breathe...
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as it's
now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being 85 with
the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of the controls
do!
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:Ah! The first potentially useful post:-)
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
What's your budget?
Do you mean 'new' as in brand new, or are you thinking used?
If used, how used are you comfortable with (1 year nearly-new with warranty or 15 yo seasoned bangerologist)?
What's your preference in terms of size/shape - ie supermini, saloon, family hatchback, crossover, SUV, estate, ...?
Do you have space to charge at home (driveway, garage, ...) or will you be relying on public charging?
Any specific requirements (dodgy hips mean you need a high driving position, need space for the dog, ...?)
Theo
On 15 Feb 2025 at 10:18:17 GMT, "Timatmarford" <[email protected]> wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Make sure you avoid anything that does not have manual heater controls. That is, avoid any manufacturer's attempt to put the heating controls on a touch screen, which would require a solo driver to take their eyes off the road to do anything with it.
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
It will be used as a shopping trolley with one annual trip of 120 miles.
Can charge from the domestic supply overnight at the holiday site.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Planned parking has 3phase 60amp but little point for the likely use.
In article <[email protected]>,That's reassuring Charles. I'll try to keep the Passat on the road for
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
I bought my EV at the age (my age) of 81. My previous diesel had been an automatic, so there was very little difference in driving. I think the biggest difference was that it had rear wheel drive. For 30 years (about) everything had been front wheel drive, but after 3+ years. I don't have a problem. I doubt if the complex displays have anything to do with it being
an EV. The only 'EV thing' is about charging. Everything else is to do with the road and the car.
I bought a Skoda Enyaq because it could carry my harp flat (with the back seats folded down), but there are plenty of others if you don't need that facilty.
Quite frequently (every other weekend) I happily do a 100+ mile return trip and on an annual basis I do a 450 mile trip (Surrey to Edinburgh). I've
once gone as far north as Aberdeen. Journeys need planning, but nowadays, I wouldn't drive for more than 3 hours without a break. Loo & then coffee
stop while the car is recharging and off I go again. Just before I bought the EV, I decided that the Edinburgh journey was too much for one day -
even thought I'd been doing it for nearly 60 years. Perhaps I'm beginning
to feel my age?
On 15/02/2025 10:18, Timatmarford wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
The complexity of the inbuilt electronics is probably much the same irrespective of the type of car you buy, petrol, diesel or EV. How much
you interact with it is up to you.
There will still be an easily readable speedo and a fuel gauge (electric charge gauge).
Wipers and indicators will still be on steering wheel stalks but things
like the wipers may be more controllable with variable speed
intermittent wipes but you could just leave the controls in a default
state.
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central tough screen
Before buying it may be worth downloading the user manual from the
internet and just going through it to familiarise yourself with all the functionality and remember just because its there it doesn't mean that
you have to use it. For instance if you don't use hands free phoning in
the car than you don't have to pair your mobile phone with the car.
There may also be a Youtube video showing the functionality of all the electronic bells and whistles fitted to the car you are considering buying.
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added >>>>>> per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a
short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and >>>>
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that. >>> On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers. >>> Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
On 15/02/2025 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
nib <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in >>>>> a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost environmental
and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
On Sat, 2/15/2025 5:18 AM, Timatmarford wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4 seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
There's a lot to know about BEVs.
You can easily make a selection mistake.
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added >>>>>>>> per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a >>>>>>>> short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and >>>>>>
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that. >>>>> On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee >>>>> and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers. >>>>> Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>>>> added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a >>>>>>>>> short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers >>>>>>> and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee >>>>>> and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A per phase
Ah! The first potentially useful post:-)
£20k would be good. 1 year + guarantee would be considered.
4 seats (for when she takes her lady friends somewhere) Super-mini or
small hatch.
This is a farm! No dog and currently no special needs.
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>, SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>, SH <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>>> added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition >>>>>>>> in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers >>>>>> and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you
have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious? >>>>>
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
In article <voqbs7$3440$[email protected]>, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
nib <[email protected]> wrote:I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost environmental
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles
added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in >>>>>>> a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and >>>>>
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have
a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just biassed because you can't afford one.
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqbs7$3440$[email protected]>, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
nib <[email protected]> wrote:I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>> added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition >>>>>>> in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers
and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you
have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
environmental and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple
products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just
biassed because you can't afford one.
My car doesn't pollute my drive with exhaust fumes.
You're just biassed because you have been conned. -
Hmm. The last user manual I tried to download (New TV) was 250 pages!
I take your points about electronic gismos. My daughter drives a Tesla
so probably not the simplest.
One criticism I seen about some of the Tesla models is even the speedo
is only on the central touch panel display and it's more than just a
glance to read it.
In article <voqm1h$520a$[email protected]>, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqbs7$3440$[email protected]>, The Natural PhilosopherMy car doesn't pollute my drive with exhaust fumes.
<[email protected]d> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
nib <[email protected]> wrote:I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>>>> added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition >>>>>>>>> in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers >>>>>>> and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you
have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious? >>>>>
environmental and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple
products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just
biassed because you can't afford one.
Of course it does. You juust can't smell it.
You're just biassed because you have been conned. -
In what way have I been conned? Since I bought it liquid fuel has gone up
50% in price. I charge mainly at home on a cheap overnight rate.
No nasty engine noise, either.
alan_m wrote:
One criticism I seen about some of the Tesla models is even the speedo
is only on the central touch panel display and it's more than just a
glance to read it.
Other weird Tesla user interface decisions ... No dashboard screen in
front of driver, it's central in the car. No indicator, headlight or wiper stalks, just buttons on the steering wheel. Nothing resembling a
gear lever for P/R/N/D just some weird swipy thing on the screen or
buttons above the rear view mirror
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
On 15/02/2025 10:50, The Other John wrote:
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
The range figures are based on operating at an ambient temperature (20C)
and driving at a constant speed (often 55mph). Much like mpg figures for
a ICE car the range probably has to be taken with a small pinch of salt :)
Battery capacity figures usually indicate a 2% ageing loss per year but
will also be dependant on how the battery has been used and/or charged.
On 2025-02-15 17:35, SH wrote:
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>>>>> added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a >>>>>>>>>> short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW
chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do >>>>>>> that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a >>>>>>> pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy
night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A
per phase
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?
Again:
Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.
In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in the multiple megawatt region.
nib
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
There are a bay of 12 (usually unused) CCS2 250kW chargers a couple of
miles from me.
That used to be a good dogging spot that Tesla have ruined.
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a short
stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
There are a bay of 12 (usually unused) CCS2 250kW chargers a couple of
miles from me.
That used to be a good dogging spot that Tesla have ruined.
On 15/02/2025 12:01, Paul wrote:
On Sat, 2/15/2025 5:18 AM, Timatmarford wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
There's a lot to know about BEVs.
You can easily make a selection mistake.
OK Paul. Good point about towability. As a farmer, I am in a position to
pick one up on a pallet:-)
UK highways have a raft of speed restrictions including a limit for most lorries of 60mph on dual carriageway. Locally, traffic density is such
that getting in front confers no benefit unless it was a horse and trap:-(
On 15/02/2025 16:10, alan_m wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:50, The Other John wrote:
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
The range figures are based on operating at an ambient temperature
(20C) and driving at a constant speed (often 55mph). Much like mpg
figures for a ICE car the range probably has to be taken with a small
pinch of salt :)
Battery capacity figures usually indicate a 2% ageing loss per year
but will also be dependant on how the battery has been used and/or
charged.
Our EV has a specified range of 281m. I tried driving (end of May) at a steady 56mph, without the air-con and just cracking the windows or using
the fan for a few minutes when the screen started to mist up. I actually
got a range of 320m.
On 15/02/2025 10:18, Timatmarford wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
The complexity of the inbuilt electronics is probably much the same irrespective of the type of car you buy, petrol, diesel or EV. How much
you interact with it is up to you.
There will still be an easily readable speedo and a fuel gauge (electric charge gauge).
Wipers and indicators will still be on steering wheel stalks but things
like the wipers may be more controllable with variable speed
intermittent wipes but you could just leave the controls in a default
state.
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central tough screen
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central touch screen
On 15/02/2025 20:43, SteveW wrote:
On 15/02/2025 16:10, alan_m wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:50, The Other John wrote:
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
The range figures are based on operating at an ambient temperature
(20C) and driving at a constant speed (often 55mph). Much like mpg
figures for a ICE car the range probably has to be taken with a small
pinch of salt :)
Battery capacity figures usually indicate a 2% ageing loss per year
but will also be dependant on how the battery has been used and/or
charged.
Our EV has a specified range of 281m. I tried driving (end of May) at
a steady 56mph, without the air-con and just cracking the windows or
using the fan for a few minutes when the screen started to mist up. I
actually got a range of 320m.
Try that speed on the motorways I use and often you will be stuck behind
one HGV with another up inches away from your back bumper, and if on the inside lane be boxed in by other HGVs over taking at a differential
speed of a few miles an hour faster :)
On 15/02/2025 16:10, alan_m wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:50, The Other John wrote:
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
The range figures are based on operating at an ambient temperature
(20C) and driving at a constant speed (often 55mph). Much like mpg
figures for a ICE car the range probably has to be taken with a small
pinch of salt :)
Battery capacity figures usually indicate a 2% ageing loss per year but will also be dependant on how the battery has been used and/or charged.
Our EV has a specified range of 281m. I tried driving (end of May) at a steady 56mph, without the air-con and just cracking the windows or using
the fan for a few minutes when the screen started to mist up. I actually
got a range of 320m.
On 15/02/2025 17:43, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 17:35, SH wrote:
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 >>>>>>>>>>> miles added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a >>>>>>>>>>> short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW
chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation. >>>>>>>>
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs >>>>>>>> do that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have >>>>>>>> a pee
and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy
night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A
per phase
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?
Again:
Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.
In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in
the multiple megawatt region.
nib
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny charger....
If you want a higher charge rate, you have take your car to and to pay through the nose at a fast electron filling station with a GW or two
national grid connection?
Timatmarford <[email protected]> wrote:I take a tractor if I am going anywhere muddy.
Ah! The first potentially useful post:-)
£20k would be good. 1 year + guarantee would be considered.
4 seats (for when she takes her lady friends somewhere) Super-mini or
small hatch.
This is a farm! No dog and currently no special needs.
Re farm, does that mean any kind of 4 wheel drive capability is useful
(muddy tracks etc)? 4WD is relatively straightforward on EVs but it bumps you towards bigger models.
Of the small/cheap EVs available new, some examples with list prices (probably deals available from dealers):
Dacia Spring, £15k:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIPZa1lG4hY
Renault 5, £23k:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sij1_MW2vvo
Fiat Grande Panda, £21k:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETfosvPX-SU
Hyundai Inster, £23k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7IRi0GbRog
If going used there's a lot more to choose from, and £20k gives a lot of headroom to play with. Here's an autotrader search (max £25k, 2023 or later, hatchback, electric) with 2200 results:
On 15/02/2025 17:43, nib wrote:
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?
Again:
Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.
In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in the multiple megawatt region.
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny charger....
If you want a higher charge rate, you have take your car to and to pay through the nose at a fast electron filling station with a GW or two
national grid connection?
One thing to watch is that to get a EuroNCAP 5* safety rating cars must
have various safety features like 'lane keeping assist' turned on every time you start the car
Well provided that…
…no one starts taxing EVs
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added >>>>>>>>> per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a >>>>>>>>> short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and >>>>>>>
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that. >>>>>> On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee >>>>>> and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers. >>>>>> Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A per phase
On 15/02/2025 17:43, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 17:35, SH wrote:
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>, SH <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>, SH <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>>>>> added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful
addition in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW
chargers and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do >>>>>>> that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you >>>>>>> have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public >>>>>>> superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's
obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy
night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A
per phase
Why are we still muttering about high powers on domestic wiring?
Again:
Domestic EV chargers are mostly 7 kW designed for overnight charging.
In-journey chargers at service stations are 150 kW or more, often in
groups of a dozen or more, and have industrial-scale power feeds in the multiple megawatt region.
nib
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny charger....
If you want a higher charge rate, you have take your car to and to pay through the nose at a fast electron filling station with a GW or two
national grid connection?
On 15/02/2025 17:50, Theo wrote:
I have been looking at published road tests and picked out the Citroen
EC3 as appearing to fit the requirements. Cash purchase seems to knock
the prices back a bit! Lack of a heat pump a consideration but losing
range doesn't matter much for the shopping job.
If going used there's a lot more to choose from, and £20k gives a lot of headroom to play with. Here's an autotrader search (max £25k, 2023 or later, hatchback, electric) with 2200 results:
The plan is to get some experience with existing family cars before
going to the dealers. Thanks for the Autotrader heads up. We haven't
bought from a dealer since 2009!
Theo wrote:
One thing to watch is that to get a EuroNCAP 5* safety rating cars must have various safety features like 'lane keeping assist' turned on every time
you start the car
I think the Renault Zoe is out of production now, but one to avoid as
its NCAP score went down to zero after they removed some airbags!
Was it you that mentioned (either here or in u.l.m) the Citroen Ami?
I can't find that thread.
I know that technically it's not classed as a car, the chap who bought
the first official UK car, only did about a thousand miles in it over
two years, during which time it needed a new motor, apparently then it
b0rked again and requires a full drive train replacement costing more
than the new price ... he did get Citroen to give him a full refund even after the warranty period ...
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
Well provided that…
…no one starts taxing EVs
From the .gov web site:
“From 1 April 2025, registered keepers of electric, zero or low emission cars, vans and motorcycles will need to pay vehicle tax in the same way as registered keepers of petrol and diesel vehicles. This change will apply to both new and existing vehicles.
This new measure removes band A under the existing VED system which is currently £0. Vehicles in this band will be required to move to the first band where a rate becomes payable.
How the changes will affect your vehicle
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025
You will need to pay the lowest first year rate of vehicle tax set at £10 from 1 April 2025. From the second tax payment onwards, you will pay the standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2025
You will pay the standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001 and 31 March 2017
These vehicles will move to the first band that has a VED value. This will
be £20”.
On 15 Feb 2025 at 15:54:47 GMT, "alan_m" <[email protected]> wrote:
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central touch screen
Radio maybe but other wise - AVOID!
'a granny charger' is nearer 3kW than 2kW. 230 volts at 13 amps
is 2990 watts. In reality most supplies are nearer to 240 volts than
230 volts, ours certainly is.
So in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny charger....
A granny charger is typically limited to 2kW (as it plugs into a standard 13amp socket). Consequently the benefits of being on E7 will be relatively small.
Most EV owners will have a 7kW charger installed and will be on EV tariffs with much bigger discounts for off peak charging.
On 15/02/2025 21:58, Spike wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
Well provided that…
…no one starts taxing EVs
From the .gov web site:
“From 1 April 2025, registered keepers of electric, zero or low emission >> cars, vans and motorcycles will need to pay vehicle tax in the same way as >> registered keepers of petrol and diesel vehicles. This change will apply to >> both new and existing vehicles.
This new measure removes band A under the existing VED system which is
currently £0. Vehicles in this band will be required to move to the first >> band where a rate becomes payable.
How the changes will affect your vehicle
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025
You will need to pay the lowest first year rate of vehicle tax set at £10 >> from 1 April 2025. From the second tax payment onwards, you will pay the
standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 April 2017 and 31 >> March 2025
You will pay the standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001 and 31 >> March 2017
These vehicles will move to the first band that has a VED value. This will >> be £20”.
This is just the vehicle tax.
How soon will the Government start taxing EVs for the loss of revenue
from fuel duty? When the majority of cars are EVs the loss in tax will
£25 billion (at today's prices). Approx £850 per household per annum.
It could be road pricing but possibly the cheapest option for
collection, say, in 10 to 15 years time would be a vehicle tax of £1000+/annum.
Chris Green wrote:
'a granny charger' is nearer 3kW than 2kW. 230 volts at 13 amps
is 2990 watts. In reality most supplies are nearer to 240 volts than
230 volts, ours certainly is.
Don't most granny "chargers" signal 10A max to the car, rather than 13A?
Chris Green wrote:
'a granny charger' is nearer 3kW than 2kW. 230 volts at 13 amps
is 2990 watts. In reality most supplies are nearer to 240 volts than
230 volts, ours certainly is.
Don't most granny "chargers" signal 10A max to the car, rather than 13A?
Tim+ <[email protected]> wrote:
You can get the EV tariffs even if you just charge from a 13 ampSo in other words, one can benefit from E7 tariff when using a granny
charger....
A granny charger is typically limited to 2kW (as it plugs into a standard
13amp socket). Consequently the benefits of being on E7 will be relatively >> small.
Most EV owners will have a 7kW charger installed and will be on EV tariffs >> with much bigger discounts for off peak charging.
socket, we do.
Also 'a granny charger' is nearer 3kW than 2kW. 230 volts at 13 amps
is 2990 watts. In reality most supplies are nearer to 240 volts than
230 volts, ours certainly is.
On 15/02/2025 21:10, Tim Streater wrote:
On 15 Feb 2025 at 15:54:47 GMT, "alan_m" <[email protected]> wrote:
Things like internal heating controls and the inbuilt radio may have to
be operated from an central touch screen
Radio maybe but other wise - AVOID!
It's getting harder to avoid touch screen controls for many functions on
new cars.
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqbs7$3440$[email protected]>, The Natural PhilosopherMy car doesn't pollute my drive with exhaust fumes.
<[email protected]d> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
nib <[email protected]> wrote:I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost environmental >>> and utility drawbacks of them
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>>> added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in >>>>>>>> a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and >>>>>>
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have >>>>> a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just
biassed
because you can't afford one.
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which
is available on most new cars.
On 15/02/2025 10:18, Timatmarford wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
Perhaps some injector cleaner might help? Personally if it's not broke ....
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
How many miles do you do for your average journey? Would a plug in
hybrid cover most without running the engine?
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control,
which is available on most new cars. This is a rather old review from
this time last year: ><https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/advice/in-car-voice-assistants-how >-do-they-work-and-which-ones-are-best?refresh=true>
On 16 Feb 2025 at 10:38:04 GMT, "Jeff Layman" <[email protected]d> wrote:
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which
is available on most new cars.
Not something I have any interest in using. Any more than I do at home. It might suit gabby people, I suppose.
I don't use it at home either, but having recently driven an EV courtesy
car where most functions were touch-screen (even heating/ventilation) I
On 16/02/2025 11:50, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:18, Timatmarford wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
Perhaps some injector cleaner might help? Personally if it's not
broke ....
Perhaps. When first purchased, the Fiesta would do a *filter clean burn*
at unexpected times. This function seems to have died quietly. A longish motorway run seems to do the same trick.
I have replaced the injectors on the Passat (same basic engine) and
arrange a similar pre-MOT run. So far so good:-)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
How many miles do you do for your average journey? Would a plug in
hybrid cover most without running the engine?
Probably. Why is that going to be better than fully electric come servicing/MOT time?
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the passenger
seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
On 15/02/2025 10:18, Timatmarford wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask for
comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta. About
2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden. (overcome so
far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Shit if I live to your age Tim and can still drive I wouldn't be wanting
to waste my money on a Johnny-cab. Go out in style a buy some fire-
breathing V12 monster and live a lot.
On 16 Feb 2025 at 13:11:45 GMT, "Jeff Layman" <[email protected]d> wrote:
I don't use it at home either, but having recently driven an EV courtesy
car where most functions were touch-screen (even heating/ventilation) I
We should avoid purchasing such vehicles, and complain loudly when anyone attempts to foist such upon us (as in your courtesy car). That way the message
might get back to the designers.
No good saying "heating up" to the car if, in effect, its response is "up yours too, chum".
On 16/02/2025 12:28, Tim Streater wrote:
On 16 Feb 2025 at 10:38:04 GMT, "Jeff Layman" <[email protected]d>
wrote:
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which >>> is available on most new cars.
Not something I have any interest in using. Any more than I do at
home. It
might suit gabby people, I suppose.
I don't use it at home either, but having recently driven an EV courtesy
car where most functions were touch-screen (even heating/ventilation) I
can see the advantage of voice control. So, for example, rather than
looking away to where the touch areas were, and trying to change the
airflow direction and temperature, it would be easier and safer to say "heating up screen" - or whatever words would be required.
On 16/02/2025 15:09, mm0fmf wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:18, Timatmarford wrote:Hah! Just watching one of my neighbours park his £80k Maserati 2 seater.
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery, 4
seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Shit if I live to your age Tim and can still drive I wouldn't be
wanting to waste my money on a Johnny-cab. Go out in style a buy some
fire- breathing V12 monster and live a lot.
I drove a series 2 Morgan for nearly 20 years so rather think I have had
my fun!
An electric shopping trolley will be for my wife to use but I am hoping
to build in some family use for when the Passat dies.
On 15/02/2025 21:58, Spike wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
Well provided that…
…no one starts taxing EVs
From the .gov web site:
“From 1 April 2025, registered keepers of electric, zero or low emission >> cars, vans and motorcycles will need to pay vehicle tax in the same
way as
registered keepers of petrol and diesel vehicles. This change will
apply to
both new and existing vehicles.
This new measure removes band A under the existing VED system which is
currently £0. Vehicles in this band will be required to move to the first >> band where a rate becomes payable.
How the changes will affect your vehicle
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered on or after 1 April 2025
You will need to pay the lowest first year rate of vehicle tax set at £10 >> from 1 April 2025. From the second tax payment onwards, you will pay the
standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 April 2017
and 31
March 2025
You will pay the standard rate. This will be £195.
Electric, zero or low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001
and 31
March 2017
These vehicles will move to the first band that has a VED value. This
will
be £20”.
This is just the vehicle tax.
How soon will the Government start taxing EVs for the loss of revenue
from fuel duty? When the majority of cars are EVs the loss in tax will
£25 billion (at today's prices). Approx £850 per household per annum.
It could be road pricing but possibly the cheapest option for
collection, say, in 10 to 15 years time would be a vehicle tax of £1000+/annum.
In article <voqm1h$520a$[email protected]>, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqbs7$3440$[email protected]>, The Natural PhilosopherMy car doesn't pollute my drive with exhaust fumes.
<[email protected]d> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 13:40, Tim+ wrote:
nib <[email protected]> wrote:I am not a BEV hater. I ,merely point out the safety, cost
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:Not to dyed in the wool EV haters.
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>>>> added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition >>>>>>>>> in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers >>>>>>> and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you
have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious? >>>>>
environmental and utility drawbacks of them
Like most ecobollox they are no solution to anything except
manufacturers need to sell expensive 'shiny new thing that makes
everything better' to the sort of gullible idiots who buy Apple
products
Mine stops my drive being polluted with exhaust fumes. You're just
biassed because you can't afford one.
Of course it does. You juust can't smell it.
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles added >>>>>>>>>> per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a >>>>>>>>>> short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers and >>>>>>>>
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do that. >>>>>>> On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee >>>>>>> and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast chargers. >>>>>>> Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy night
storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A per phase
Dear Lord, you really need to work out when to stop talking and revealing your ignorance.
On 15/02/2025 11:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:50, The Other John wrote:
I like my Nissan Leaf EV. Its specified range is 150 miles but as
it's now 8 years old the range is now only 85 miles. Also, me being
85 with the memory span of a goldfish I can't remember what most of
the controls do!
Don't be like my late mother. who forgot where the brake pedal was..
A few years before forgetting everything else, including how to
breathe...
Hmm. I haven't forgotten the pedal uses but I have size 11 feet and find
it very easy to get clutch/brake and brake/accelerator combinations on
my Passat:-(
On 15/02/2025 17:27, Timatmarford wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:01, Paul wrote:
On Sat, 2/15/2025 5:18 AM, Timatmarford wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery,
4 seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
There's a lot to know about BEVs.
You can easily make a selection mistake.
OK Paul. Good point about towability. As a farmer, I am in a position
to pick one up on a pallet:-)
While many specify towing with the driven wheels off the ground, they
usually state that they can be towed a short distance to a safe location without.
UK highways have a raft of speed restrictions including a limit for
most lorries of 60mph on dual carriageway. Locally, traffic density is
such that getting in front confers no benefit unless it was a horse
and trap:-(
Lots seem to be limited to 99mph - which is more than sufficient unless
you are driving on German autobahns.
On 15/02/2025 16:42, Timatmarford wrote:
Hmm. The last user manual I tried to download (New TV) was 250 pages!
Probably o0ne manual in 20 different languages :(
I take your points about electronic gismos. My daughter drives a Tesla
so probably not the simplest.
One criticism I seen about some of the Tesla models is even the speedo
is only on the central touch panel display and it's more than just a
glance to read it.
On 2025-02-16 12:45, Timatmarford wrote:If you have a daily commute of 30+ miles each way and the final few
On 16/02/2025 11:50, Fredxx wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:18, Timatmarford wrote:
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
Perhaps some injector cleaner might help? Personally if it's not
broke ....
Perhaps. When first purchased, the Fiesta would do a *filter clean
burn* at unexpected times. This function seems to have died quietly. A
longish motorway run seems to do the same trick.
I have replaced the injectors on the Passat (same basic engine) and
arrange a similar pre-MOT run. So far so good:-)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery,
4 seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
How many miles do you do for your average journey? Would a plug in
hybrid cover most without running the engine?
Probably. Why is that going to be better than fully electric come
servicing/MOT time?
I think if your car only ever does short trips, electric is a much
better fit than anything with an engine. No problem with lots of short
runs and cold starts not being ideal for an engine, perhaps especially diesel. The heater works immediately.
PHEVs are a compromise. If you do most of your trips on electric it
complains at you (or ours does!) that the fuel is getting old and the
engine needs a run, you end up taking it out for a good run just to keep
it happy. The electric range is not usually very much, then it starts
the engine and insists on running it until it warms up even if it is not needed. On ours, you get less than half the power in full electric mode, which is mostly good enough (70 HP v 160 HP) but not always. They can be
fun if the use case fits but they are not really good as a pure EV.
nib
On 16/02/2025 12:28, Tim Streater wrote:
On 16 Feb 2025 at 10:38:04 GMT, "Jeff Layman" <[email protected]d>
wrote:
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which >>> is available on most new cars.
Not something I have any interest in using. Any more than I do at
home. It
might suit gabby people, I suppose.
I don't use it at home either, but having recently driven an EV courtesy
car where most functions were touch-screen (even heating/ventilation) I
can see the advantage of voice control. So, for example, rather than
looking away to where the touch areas were, and trying to change the
airflow direction and temperature, it would be easier and safer to say "heating up screen" - or whatever words would be required.
There's little - if any - mention in this thread of voice control, which
is available on most new cars.
On 16/02/2025 15:59, Timatmarford wrote:
On 16/02/2025 15:09, mm0fmf wrote:Fair enough on the series 2 :-)
On 15/02/2025 10:18, Timatmarford wrote:Hah! Just watching one of my neighbours park his £80k Maserati 2
Following the interest in the EV thread I thought it timely to ask
for comment on replacing my wife's 2009 60k miles diesel Fiesta.
About 2000m/year of local trips so the MOT smoke test a burden.
(overcome so far by a preceding long motorway trip!)
For several years, we have talked about changing to a new, battery,
4 seater vehicle. Range 150 miles would do.
Neither of us (80 just and 81) have ever driven one! From the
passenger seat, the complexity of the electronic display gadgetry is
incomprehensible! One of us is still struggling to operate her new TV!
Shit if I live to your age Tim and can still drive I wouldn't be
wanting to waste my money on a Johnny-cab. Go out in style a buy some
fire- breathing V12 monster and live a lot.
seater. I drove a series 2 Morgan for nearly 20 years so rather think
I have had my fun!
An electric shopping trolley will be for my wife to use but I am
hoping to build in some family use for when the Passat dies.
I knew someone who was in a classic car club, there were 4 of them and
they bought classics between them so you got to drive a different one
each month. He had a 1970 Bentley T and an early Bentley Mulsanne Turbo
which were his daily drivers. I don't the fuel costs were an issue at
all. The club owned a Jaguar XJ12C, a Porsche 911 2.4 and a 246 Dino. He
told me once when they bought a Morgan Plus 8 that had been breathed on.
His words were "The noise is fabulous as are the smells. There's wood
and leather and hot exhaust and oil. Oh and a strong smell of soiled
pants because it's so damn quick and scary!"
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>,
SH <[email protected]> wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>>>> added
per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful addition in a >>>>>>>>> short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers >>>>>>> and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do
that.
On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you have a pee >>>>>> and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public superfast
chargers.
Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A per phase
On 15/02/2025 17:35, SH wrote:
On 15/02/2025 17:00, charles wrote:
In article <voqcj2$37q9$[email protected]>, SH <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 15/02/2025 15:00, charles wrote:
In article <voq75p$1sd6$[email protected]>, SH <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 15/02/2025 12:11, nib wrote:
On 2025-02-15 11:58, John R Walliker wrote:
On 15/02/2025 11:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/02/2025 10:42, nib wrote:
Most "proper" EVs can take about 150kW, so more like 450 miles >>>>>>>>> added per hour, which makes it possible to get a useful
addition in a short stop
150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
And probably hard to find elsewhere.
Not difficult around here. The local Waitrose has 120kW chargers >>>>>>> and
Sainsbury's has 150kW chargers.
John
>> 150kW is completely beyond any *domestic* installation.
Of course it is. At home you charge at 7 kW overnight. All EVs do >>>>>> that. On a journey you want to charge in a few minutes while you >>>>>> have a pee and a coffee; that's when you use the 150 kW public
superfast chargers. Not all EVs can do that. Surely that's
obvious?
nib
150,000 W / 220 V = 682 A.
But it's not 220v. Probably 480v
Thats a current of 312 A....
3 phases
and how many domestic houses have 3 phase supplies...
and once you add on the electric shower, electric cooker, Economy night storage heaters.... still need to uprate to in excess of 100A per phase
I'm aware in some European countries, multi-phase isn't uncommon, but
that would be where a modest house used electricity for heating.
Assuming our transmission and generation system is uprated, it could
well become the norm. Others may plant their head firmly in the sand in ignorance.
Assuming our transmission and generation system is uprated, it could
well become the norm. Others may plant their head firmly in the sand in ignorance.
Fredxx <[email protected]d> wrote:
Assuming our transmission and generation system is uprated, it could
well become the norm. Others may plant their head firmly in the sand in ignorance.
Ignorance of what? Many folk at present are quite happily managing to
charge their EVs and run their heat pumps on a single phase supply.
Nobody has a domestic high speed DC charger capable of 100kW+ so all this talk of our supplies being inadequate is moot.
Even if we had three phase supplies given the £10,000 + cost of said chargers is just not going to happen.
Tim+ <[email protected]> wrote:
Fredxx <[email protected]d> wrote:
Assuming our transmission and generation system is uprated, it could
well become the norm. Others may plant their head firmly in the sand in
ignorance.
Ignorance of what? Many folk at present are quite happily managing to
charge their EVs and run their heat pumps on a single phase supply.
Nobody has a domestic high speed DC charger capable of 100kW+ so all this
talk of our supplies being inadequate is moot.
Even if we had three phase supplies given the £10,000 + cost of said
chargers is just not going to happen.
And it's pointless anyway. Unless you're a taxi driver, 95% of the time
cars are parked. On a regular 7kW domestic single phase charger, they can refill their average daily driving in a couple of hours. If you do a road trip it might take more like 8-10 hours overnight to refill, but most people don't do road trips every day.
Add in a 2-3kW demand heat pump, that's no more than boiling a kettle.
If you have multiple cars it doesn't make a difference because one person
can only drive one at once, and it's miles driven that causes consumption (you may need N chargers but they can sequence / load balance).
If you're a family with 4 teenage kids all with their own cars and everyone using them to go 50 miles to work every day then that might require a slightly beefier supply. But that's quite a niche use case - the limiting factor being driveway space aside from anything else.
About the only time it might get sticky is with HMOs where there are lots of adults in a single house, but most of them will be street parking because there's not enough driveway.
Basically in most houses you're more likely to run out of drivers or
driveway before you run out of supply capacity.
On 17/02/2025 15:27, Theo wrote:
Tim+ <[email protected]> wrote:
Fredxx <[email protected]d> wrote:
Assuming our transmission and generation system is uprated, it could
well become the norm. Others may plant their head firmly in the sand in >>> ignorance.
Ignorance of what? Many folk at present are quite happily managing to
charge their EVs and run their heat pumps on a single phase supply.
Nobody has a domestic high speed DC charger capable of 100kW+ so all this >> talk of our supplies being inadequate is moot.
Even if we had three phase supplies given the £10,000 + cost of said
chargers is just not going to happen.
And it's pointless anyway. Unless you're a taxi driver, 95% of the time cars are parked. On a regular 7kW domestic single phase charger, they can refill their average daily driving in a couple of hours. If you do a road trip it might take more like 8-10 hours overnight to refill, but most people
don't do road trips every day.
Many commutes are road trips when it comes to EV range.
Add in a 2-3kW demand heat pump, that's no more than boiling a kettle.
Again, that depends on the size of house.
If you have multiple cars it doesn't make a difference because one person can only drive one at once, and it's miles driven that causes consumption (you may need N chargers but they can sequence / load balance).
Yes each person in that household can only drive any one car, which can
mean many cars or one very well used car requiring a full overnight charge.
If you're a family with 4 teenage kids all with their own cars and everyone using them to go 50 miles to work every day then that might require a slightly beefier supply. But that's quite a niche use case - the limiting factor being driveway space aside from anything else.
About the only time it might get sticky is with HMOs where there are lots of
adults in a single house, but most of them will be street parking because there's not enough driveway.
Basically in most houses you're more likely to run out of drivers or driveway before you run out of supply capacity.
I agree for 80% of the time, but ..............
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 715 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 16:40:53 |
| Calls: | 12,103 |
| Calls today: | 3 |
| Files: | 15,004 |
| Messages: | 6,518,059 |
