Hi All
we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be made
or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our
number). My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not to
be working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process of
reporting a line fault.

An hour or so later, Internet came back up - ie. DNS seemed operational,
the kids could connect etc... However there was still the issue with the 'phone.

This morning, the phone also seems OK. I did try moving the master
(DECT) phone to another filtered socket, but I don't think that was what started it working.

So now we all seem to be up and running. I have an engineer's visit
booked for later in the week and am planning to cancel it. But I am
still puzzled as to what might be going on, and whether it might return.

How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was starting
to suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that seems to be
working ... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it?

Thanks for any thoughts

J^n

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On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 13:49:59 +0000, jkn <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi All
we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be made
or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our
number). My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not to
be working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process of >reporting a line fault.

An hour or so later, Internet came back up - ie. DNS seemed operational,
the kids could connect etc... However there was still the issue with the >'phone.

This morning, the phone also seems OK. I did try moving the master
(DECT) phone to another filtered socket, but I don't think that was what >started it working.

So now we all seem to be up and running. I have an engineer's visit
booked for later in the week and am planning to cancel it. But I am
still puzzled as to what might be going on, and whether it might return.

How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was starting
to suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that seems to be
working ... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it?

Thanks for any thoughts

I thought they came from different street cabinets. Have you spoken to neighbours?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 13:49:59 +0000, jkn <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi All
we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be made
or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our
number). My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not to
be working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process of >reporting a line fault.

How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was starting
to suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that seems to be
working ... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it?

Reports that I've read in the past said that a noisy line will stop a
landline working but have no effect on the ADSL.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 20/01/2025 13:49, jkn wrote:

So now we all seem to be up and running. I have an engineer's visit
booked for later in the week and am planning to cancel it. But I am
still puzzled as to what might be going on, and whether it might return.

Dont cancel it.

How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline?

Broadband is RF. It can jump gaps that baseband (speech) cannot.

You almost certainly have a dodgy line. The engineer will use a TDR on
it and find out where its dodgy and remake the connection.

Hint: treat your openreach engineer like royalty. Tea Coffee buns and
biscuits. Remember its not his/her fault and (s)he's trying to help



--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
“We did this ourselves.”

― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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On 20/01/2025 14:02, Peter Johnson wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 13:49:59 +0000, jkn <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi All
we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be made
or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our
number). My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not to
be working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process of
reporting a line fault.

How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was starting
to suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that seems to be
working ... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it?

Reports that I've read in the past said that a noisy line will stop a landline working but have no effect on the ADSL.

No. Noise degrades everything but doesn't stop either actually working.
But an open circuit will stop the phone working yet can still allow
broadband to work.


--
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the
urge to rule it.”
– H. L. Mencken

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On 20/01/2025 13:58, Scott wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 13:49:59 +0000, jkn <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi All
we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be made
or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our
number). My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not to
be working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process of
reporting a line fault.

An hour or so later, Internet came back up - ie. DNS seemed operational,
the kids could connect etc... However there was still the issue with the
'phone.

This morning, the phone also seems OK. I did try moving the master
(DECT) phone to another filtered socket, but I don't think that was what
started it working.

So now we all seem to be up and running. I have an engineer's visit
booked for later in the week and am planning to cancel it. But I am
still puzzled as to what might be going on, and whether it might return.

How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was starting
to suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that seems to be
working ... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it?

Thanks for any thoughts

I thought they came from different street cabinets. Have you spoken to neighbours?

They can come from different cabinets. A few years ago a car hit both
cabinets, one of which supplied our landline, while the other had the
DSLAM equipment. My broadband continued to work without problem, while
landline calls did not work at all.

It took several days to get the landline back.

--
Jeff

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On 20/01/2025 in message <vmlka7$3033j$[email protected]> jkn wrote:

Hi All
we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be made
or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our number).
My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not to be
working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process of
reporting a line fault.

An hour or so later, Internet came back up - ie. DNS seemed operational,
the kids could connect etc... However there was still the issue with the >'phone.

This morning, the phone also seems OK. I did try moving the master (DECT) >phone to another filtered socket, but I don't think that was what started
it working.

So now we all seem to be up and running. I have an engineer's visit booked >for later in the week and am planning to cancel it. But I am still puzzled
as to what might be going on, and whether it might return.

How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was starting to >suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that seems to be working
... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it?

Thanks for any thoughts

J^n

The 'phone requires both connectors whereas ADSL is incredibly good at
working on one connector and finding its own earth.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
All things being equal, fat people use more soap

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On 20/01/2025 14:15, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 20/01/2025 13:58, Scott wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 13:49:59 +0000, jkn <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi All
    we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline
problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be made >>> or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our
number). My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not to >>> be working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process of
reporting a line fault.

An hour or so later, Internet came back up - ie. DNS seemed operational, >>> the kids could connect etc... However there was still the issue with the >>> 'phone.

This morning, the phone also seems OK. I did try moving the master
(DECT) phone to another filtered socket, but I don't think that was what >>> started it working.

So now we all seem to be up and running. I have an engineer's visit
booked for later in the week and am planning to cancel it. But I am
still puzzled as to what might be going on, and whether it might return. >>>
How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was starting
to suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that seems to be
working ... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it?

Thanks for any thoughts

I thought they came from different street cabinets. Have you spoken to
neighbours?

They can come from different cabinets. A few years ago a car hit both cabinets, one of which supplied our landline, while the other had the
DSLAM equipment. My broadband continued to work without problem, while landline calls did not work at all.

ADSL is not cabinet based. The DSLAMS are in the exchange.

FTTC uses VDSL and that IS cabinet based.

Landlines do not 'use cabinets' at all. The line continues on to the
exchange

It took several days to get the landline back.

--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

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On 20/01/2025 14:17, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 20/01/2025 in message <vmlka7$3033j$[email protected]> jkn wrote:

Hi All
    we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline
problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be
made or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our
number). My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not
to be working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process
of reporting a line fault.

An hour or so later, Internet came back up - ie. DNS seemed
operational, the kids could connect etc... However there was still the
issue with the 'phone.

This morning, the phone also seems OK. I did try moving the master
(DECT) phone to another filtered socket, but I don't think that was
what started it working.

So now we all seem to be up and running. I have an engineer's visit
booked for later in the week and am planning to cancel it. But I am
still puzzled as to what might be going on, and whether it might return.

How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was
starting to suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that
seems to be working ... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it?

Thanks for any thoughts

   J^n

The 'phone requires both connectors whereas ADSL is incredibly good at working on one connector and finding its own earth.

Phone lines are two line twisted pair. I don't think either are earthed.

Broadband can work and the phone not if there is a broken connection to
the exchange.
In the case of ADSL being RF (radio) it can 'jump' a broken wire, and in
the case of VDSL the break could be upstream of the cabinet, where the broadband terminates.
With VDSL (FTTC) the copper continues on to the exchange for landline usage.

It's fairly common


--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
..I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

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The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:

On 20/01/2025 14:15, Jeff Layman wrote:

They can come from different cabinets. A few years ago a car hit both cabinets, one of which supplied our landline, while the other had the
DSLAM equipment. My broadband continued to work without problem, while landline calls did not work at all.

ADSL is not cabinet based. The DSLAMS are in the exchange.

FTTC uses VDSL and that IS cabinet based.

Landlines do not 'use cabinets' at all. The line continues on to the
exchange

Landlines can use cabinets, but they're just passive junction boxes (as they have been for a century). It's possible the car took out a junction box cabinet between the exchange and the FTTC cabinet - result BB works but no voice.

(not sure how common it is to have a junction on this path, but possible)

Theo

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On 20/01/2025 14:58, Theo wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:

On 20/01/2025 14:15, Jeff Layman wrote:

They can come from different cabinets. A few years ago a car hit both
cabinets, one of which supplied our landline, while the other had the
DSLAM equipment. My broadband continued to work without problem, while
landline calls did not work at all.

ADSL is not cabinet based. The DSLAMS are in the exchange.

FTTC uses VDSL and that IS cabinet based.

Landlines do not 'use cabinets' at all. The line continues on to the
exchange

Landlines can use cabinets, but they're just passive junction boxes (as they have been for a century). It's possible the car took out a junction box cabinet between the exchange and the FTTC cabinet - result BB works but no voice.

(not sure how common it is to have a junction on this path, but possible)

It's what I had assumed. Here are a couple of photos I took at the time: <https://ibb.co/8jPXhcR>
<https://ibb.co/RCwQ2j5>

I wonder how damaged the car was!

--
Jeff

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On 20/01/2025 14:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 20/01/2025 14:15, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 20/01/2025 13:58, Scott wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 13:49:59 +0000, jkn <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi All
    we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline >>>> problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be made >>>> or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our
number). My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not to >>>> be working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process of
reporting a line fault.

An hour or so later, Internet came back up - ie. DNS seemed operational, >>>> the kids could connect etc... However there was still the issue with the >>>> 'phone.

This morning, the phone also seems OK. I did try moving the master
(DECT) phone to another filtered socket, but I don't think that was what >>>> started it working.

So now we all seem to be up and running. I have an engineer's visit
booked for later in the week and am planning to cancel it. But I am
still puzzled as to what might be going on, and whether it might return. >>>>
How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was starting >>>> to suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that seems to be
working ... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it?

Thanks for any thoughts

I thought they came from different street cabinets. Have you spoken to
neighbours?

They can come from different cabinets. A few years ago a car hit both
cabinets, one of which supplied our landline, while the other had the
DSLAM equipment. My broadband continued to work without problem, while
landline calls did not work at all.

ADSL is not cabinet based. The DSLAMS are in the exchange.

FTTC uses VDSL and that IS cabinet based.

<https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm> <https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm#fttc_dslam>
etc

Landlines do not 'use cabinets' at all. The line continues on to the
exchange

See my reply to Theo.

It took several days to get the landline back.

--
Jeff

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On 20/01/2025 15:41, Jeff Layman wrote:

<https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm> <https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm#fttc_dslam>
etc

Landlines do not 'use cabinets' at all. The line continues on to the
exchange

See my reply to Theo.

Sure looks like one cabinet to me.

--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

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On 20/01/2025 14:58, Theo wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:

On 20/01/2025 14:15, Jeff Layman wrote:

They can come from different cabinets. A few years ago a car hit both
cabinets, one of which supplied our landline, while the other had the
DSLAM equipment. My broadband continued to work without problem, while
landline calls did not work at all.

ADSL is not cabinet based. The DSLAMS are in the exchange.

FTTC uses VDSL and that IS cabinet based.

Landlines do not 'use cabinets' at all. The line continues on to the
exchange

Landlines can use cabinets, but they're just passive junction boxes (as they have been for a century). It's possible the car took out a junction box cabinet between the exchange and the FTTC cabinet - result BB works but no voice.

(not sure how common it is to have a junction on this path, but possible)

Theo

Well yes, if by 'cabinet' you mean ordinary passive wiring rack.
Round here those are mostly underground
And the FTTC cabinets have a fast track back to the exchange.



--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

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On 20/01/2025 16:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 20/01/2025 14:58, Theo wrote:

The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:

On 20/01/2025 14:15, Jeff Layman wrote:

They can come from different cabinets. A few years ago a car hit both
cabinets, one of which supplied our landline, while the other had the
DSLAM equipment. My broadband continued to work without problem, while >>>> landline calls did not work at all.

ADSL is not cabinet based. The DSLAMS are in the exchange.

FTTC uses VDSL and that IS cabinet based.

Landlines do not 'use cabinets' at all. The line continues on to the
exchange

Landlines can use cabinets, but they're just passive junction boxes
(as they
have been for a century).  It's possible the car took out a junction box
cabinet between the exchange and the FTTC cabinet - result BB works
but no
voice.

(not sure how common it is to have a junction on this path, but possible)

Theo

Well yes, if by 'cabinet' you mean ordinary passive wiring rack.
Round here those are mostly underground
And the FTTC cabinets have a fast track back to the exchange.

Around here, the fibre cabinets are steel, but before that, the
land-lines passed through local terminals to larger multi-core cables,
in cast-iron cabinets that have probably been here since most of the
houses were built in the 1930s.

When FFTC was introduced, they placed steel cabinets alongside the
cast-iron ones, so the digital and analogue signals could be combined there.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:

Landlines do not 'use cabinets' at all. The line continues on to the
exchange

Bollocks. Those are called “exchange lines”. Most customers will be connected through cabinets.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Tim+ wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Landlines do not 'use cabinets' at all. The line continues on to the
exchange

Bollocks. Those are called “exchange lines”.

Usually called "Exchange Only" or EO lines.

Most customers will be
connected through cabinets.

Agreed, but not out in the sticks.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 20/01/2025 14:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 20/01/2025 14:17, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 20/01/2025 in message <vmlka7$3033j$[email protected]> jkn wrote:

Hi All
    we returned from a short visit away yesterday to find landline
problems...

The phone screen was saying 'line cord error' and no calls could be
made or received (line reported as 'busy' when attempting to ring our
number). My router reported a good ADSL connection but DNS seemed not
to be working. So after a bit of investigation I started the process
of reporting a line fault.

An hour or so later, Internet came back up - ie. DNS seemed
operational, the kids could connect etc... However there was still
the issue with the 'phone.

This morning, the phone also seems OK. I did try moving the master
(DECT) phone to another filtered socket, but I don't think that was
what started it working.

So now we all seem to be up and running. I have an engineer's visit
booked for later in the week and am planning to cancel it. But I am
still puzzled as to what might be going on, and whether it might return. >>>
How can Broadband ADSL be working, but not the landline? I was
starting to suspect my (Solwise) Filter faceplate, but since that
seems to be working ... an intermittent fault here is not likely, is it? >>>
Thanks for any thoughts

   J^n

The 'phone requires both connectors whereas ADSL is incredibly good at
working on one connector and finding its own earth.

Phone lines are two line twisted pair. I don't think either are earthed.

Oh dear, they are balanced either side of earth, just like a balanced
feeder but twisted to prevent/cancel crosstalk to other twisted pairs.

Broadband can work and the phone not if there is a broken connection to
the exchange.
In the case of ADSL being RF (radio) it can 'jump' a broken wire, and in
the case of VDSL the break could be upstream of the cabinet, where the broadband terminates.
With VDSL (FTTC) the copper continues on to the exchange for landline
usage.

So the broadband is still injected onto the customers cable at the
cabinet independent of any connection to the local (or not so local)
exchange.

It's fairly common

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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