First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a
trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many
times yesterday without incident.

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jon <[email protected]> wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a
trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many times yesterday without incident.

It could be many things, in two senses.

It could be that you have 'many things' each of which is adding a
little leakage and that adding just one more has been "the straw that
breaks the camel's back". One particular type of 'thing' that can do
this is PCs. Have you several PCs running?

The other type of 'many things' is simply that it could simply be one
thing which has slowly deteriorated and is now tripping the RCD
occasionally. A common culprit for this is an oven element.

It can of course also be a wiring fault where some insualation has
worn or a junction box has got water in it but these are relatively
rarer (at least in my experience).

The breaker being "very hard to reset" isn't significant I don't think.

If repeatedly tripped my experience is that some RCDs get paranoid and
trip again even though the main leakage culprit has been removed.
Usually however, if this happens, just remove all the loads, reset the
breaker and then turn circuits back on one by one. Of course if you
then get a trip when one of the circuits is turned back on you have a
good clue as to where the problem is.

All in all it can be quite difficult to find what is causing the trip
when it's a bit random (as you're seeing). If it's something like an
oven element failing then it almost always gets worse quite quickly
and is then easy to find. Otherwise you will just have to try and be
as logical as you can when trying to deduce where the problem is.

--
Chris Green
·

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On 17/01/2025 09:30, Chris Green wrote:

jon <[email protected]> wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour
yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a
trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many
times yesterday without incident.

It could be many things, in two senses.

It could be that you have 'many things' each of which is adding a
little leakage and that adding just one more has been "the straw that
breaks the camel's back". One particular type of 'thing' that can do
this is PCs. Have you several PCs running?

I'll second that.

At one point, we had a home server and up to 5 PCs, plus 3 printers, 3 satellite boxes, two digital terrestrial boxes and God knows what else
running - much less now two of the kids are away at university - and we suffered random trips. I got rid of the RCD and replaced all the
breakers with RCBOs, thus spreading the device leakage across different circuits, and we've had no problem since.

The other type of 'many things' is simply that it could simply be one
thing which has slowly deteriorated and is now tripping the RCD
occasionally. A common culprit for this is an oven element.

Washing machine or dishwasher elements are also a likely culprit too.

Don't forget any outside electrics or outbuildings where ingress of
dampness may occur. We've had a couple of trips where an extension lead,
being used for battery charging, has got damp inside its socket.

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On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:45:20 +0000, SteveW <[email protected]>
wrote:

On 17/01/2025 09:30, Chris Green wrote:

jon <[email protected]> wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour
yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a >>> trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many >>> times yesterday without incident.

It could be many things, in two senses.

It could be that you have 'many things' each of which is adding a
little leakage and that adding just one more has been "the straw that
breaks the camel's back". One particular type of 'thing' that can do
this is PCs. Have you several PCs running?

I'll second that.

At one point, we had a home server and up to 5 PCs, plus 3 printers, 3 >satellite boxes, two digital terrestrial boxes and God knows what else >running - much less now two of the kids are away at university - and we >suffered random trips. I got rid of the RCD and replaced all the
breakers with RCBOs, thus spreading the device leakage across different >circuits, and we've had no problem since.

The other type of 'many things' is simply that it could simply be one
thing which has slowly deteriorated and is now tripping the RCD
occasionally. A common culprit for this is an oven element.

Washing machine or dishwasher elements are also a likely culprit too.

I had a washing machine once that was the culprit. When it got to the
spin cycle the computer crashed out!

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On 17/01/2025 06:11, jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a
trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many times yesterday without incident.

First disconnect the neutrals one by one off the consumer unit and test
for shorts to ground, with and without appliances connected

--
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have
forgotten your aim."

George Santayana

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On 17 Jan 2025 at 10:04:47 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/01/2025 06:11, jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour
yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a
trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many
times yesterday without incident.

First disconnect the neutrals one by one off the consumer unit and test
for shorts to ground, with and without appliances connected

OOI, how do you go about isolating the supply, before the CU? I've recently
had the switch/breaker replaced with a 100A fuse protected with a seal.

I'd have to break the seal to isolate the CU, leaving the only way to isolate to any extent is at the CU.
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

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jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a
trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many times yesterday without incident.

By "main breaker" do you mean the breaker between the meter and the CU,
or something inside the CU? If inside, is it an MCB or an RCD/RCBO?
(In case you aren't aware, an RCD or RCBO will have a test button and an
MCB will not.)

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SteveW <[email protected]> wrote:

On 17/01/2025 10:11, RJH wrote:

On 17 Jan 2025 at 10:04:47 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/01/2025 06:11, jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour >>> yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a >>> trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change >>> switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many >>> times yesterday without incident.

First disconnect the neutrals one by one off the consumer unit and test
for shorts to ground, with and without appliances connected

OOI, how do you go about isolating the supply, before the CU? I've recently had the switch/breaker replaced with a 100A fuse protected with a seal.

I'd have to break the seal to isolate the CU, leaving the only way to isolate
to any extent is at the CU.

The CU's main switch will isolate the supply to everything else in the
box. You're not looking at disconnecting the supply tails, so you don't
need to isolate before the switch.

Just be sure not to touch the upstream side of that switch. Ideally there should be protection on those terminals, but that doesn't seem to be
common practice. You could probably put some tape over the screws
to prevent mishaps, but it would be nicer if there was an official cover.

Theo

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On 17/01/2025 10:11, RJH wrote:

On 17 Jan 2025 at 10:04:47 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/01/2025 06:11, jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour
yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a >>> trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many >>> times yesterday without incident.

First disconnect the neutrals one by one off the consumer unit and test
for shorts to ground, with and without appliances connected

OOI, how do you go about isolating the supply, before the CU?

Dont need to. Switch off the main RCD and simply disconnecte te
neutrals one by one and check em

I've recently

had the switch/breaker replaced with a 100A fuse protected with a seal.

I'd have to break the seal to isolate the CU, leaving the only way to isolate to any extent is at the CU.

Well yes, sure there will be mains coming into the main breaker, but
that's as far as it goes. You have switched it off so nothing at the
busbars.


--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

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On 17/01/2025 10:11, RJH wrote:

On 17 Jan 2025 at 10:04:47 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/01/2025 06:11, jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour
yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a >>> trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many >>> times yesterday without incident.

First disconnect the neutrals one by one off the consumer unit and test
for shorts to ground, with and without appliances connected

OOI, how do you go about isolating the supply, before the CU? I've recently had the switch/breaker replaced with a 100A fuse protected with a seal.

I'd have to break the seal to isolate the CU, leaving the only way to isolate to any extent is at the CU.

The CU's main switch will isolate the supply to everything else in the
box. You're not looking at disconnecting the supply tails, so you don't
need to isolate before the switch.

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On 17/01/2025 10:14, No mail wrote:

jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour
yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a
trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many
times yesterday without incident.

By "main breaker" do you mean the breaker between the meter and the CU,
or something inside the CU? If inside, is it an MCB or an RCD/RCBO?
(In case you aren't aware, an RCD or RCBO will have a test button and an
MCB will not.)

Pics here:

https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/RCD#Types_of_RCD


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:30:29 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

jon <[email protected]> wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour
yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was
a trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle
many times yesterday without incident.

It could be many things, in two senses.

It could be that you have 'many things' each of which is adding a little leakage and that adding just one more has been "the straw that breaks
the camel's back". One particular type of 'thing' that can do this is
PCs. Have you several PCs running?

The other type of 'many things' is simply that it could simply be one
thing which has slowly deteriorated and is now tripping the RCD
occasionally. A common culprit for this is an oven element.

It can of course also be a wiring fault where some insualation has worn
or a junction box has got water in it but these are relatively rarer (at least in my experience).

The breaker being "very hard to reset" isn't significant I don't think.

If repeatedly tripped my experience is that some RCDs get paranoid and
trip again even though the main leakage culprit has been removed.
Usually however, if this happens, just remove all the loads, reset the breaker and then turn circuits back on one by one. Of course if you
then get a trip when one of the circuits is turned back on you have a
good clue as to where the problem is.

All in all it can be quite difficult to find what is causing the trip
when it's a bit random (as you're seeing). If it's something like an
oven element failing then it almost always gets worse quite quickly and
is then easy to find. Otherwise you will just have to try and be as
logical as you can when trying to deduce where the problem is.

Only one PC running at the moment.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 17/01/2025 12:23, jon wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:30:29 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

jon <[email protected]> wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour
yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was
a trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle
many times yesterday without incident.

It could be many things, in two senses.

It could be that you have 'many things' each of which is adding a little
leakage and that adding just one more has been "the straw that breaks
the camel's back". One particular type of 'thing' that can do this is
PCs. Have you several PCs running?

The other type of 'many things' is simply that it could simply be one
thing which has slowly deteriorated and is now tripping the RCD
occasionally. A common culprit for this is an oven element.

It can of course also be a wiring fault where some insualation has worn
or a junction box has got water in it but these are relatively rarer (at
least in my experience).

The breaker being "very hard to reset" isn't significant I don't think.

If repeatedly tripped my experience is that some RCDs get paranoid and
trip again even though the main leakage culprit has been removed.
Usually however, if this happens, just remove all the loads, reset the
breaker and then turn circuits back on one by one. Of course if you
then get a trip when one of the circuits is turned back on you have a
good clue as to where the problem is.

All in all it can be quite difficult to find what is causing the trip
when it's a bit random (as you're seeing). If it's something like an
oven element failing then it almost always gets worse quite quickly and
is then easy to find. Otherwise you will just have to try and be as
logical as you can when trying to deduce where the problem is.

Only one PC running at the moment.

Unless they are unplugged or physically switched off (not the PC power
button), the power input filters will still be connected to the mains
and they'll still contribute to the total leakage.

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On 17/01/2025 06:11 am, jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a
trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many times yesterday without incident.

It's usually the kettle, though. Or the toaster. Or the electric shower.

Well, unless it's a worn-out circuit breaker (which happened to us last
year).

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On 17 Jan 2025 at 10:57:41 GMT, Theo wrote:

SteveW <[email protected]> wrote:

On 17/01/2025 10:11, RJH wrote:

On 17 Jan 2025 at 10:04:47 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/01/2025 06:11, jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour >>>>> yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a >>>>> trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change >>>>> switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet. >>>>>
I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many >>>>> times yesterday without incident.

First disconnect the neutrals one by one off the consumer unit and test >>>> for shorts to ground, with and without appliances connected

OOI, how do you go about isolating the supply, before the CU? I've recently >>> had the switch/breaker replaced with a 100A fuse protected with a seal.

I'd have to break the seal to isolate the CU, leaving the only way to isolate
to any extent is at the CU.

The CU's main switch will isolate the supply to everything else in the
box. You're not looking at disconnecting the supply tails, so you don't
need to isolate before the switch.

Just be sure not to touch the upstream side of that switch. Ideally there should be protection on those terminals, but that doesn't seem to be
common practice. You could probably put some tape over the screws
to prevent mishaps, but it would be nicer if there was an official cover.

Yes, it's that 'be sure' bit that makes me want to isolate away from the CU.

It's something I looked at because an electrician just quoted me nearly £500 to fit (and presumably check etc.) an additional MCB to the CU, and connect it to existing cable.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

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On 17/01/2025 10:11, RJH wrote:

On 17 Jan 2025 at 10:04:47 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/01/2025 06:11, jon wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour
yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was a >>> trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change
switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle many >>> times yesterday without incident.

First disconnect the neutrals one by one off the consumer unit and test
for shorts to ground, with and without appliances connected

OOI, how do you go about isolating the supply, before the CU? I've recently had the switch/breaker replaced with a 100A fuse protected with a seal.

I'd have to break the seal to isolate the CU, leaving the only way to isolate to any extent is at the CU.

Fit a new seal?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 17/01/2025 12:58, SteveW wrote:

On 17/01/2025 12:23, jon wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:30:29 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

jon <[email protected]> wrote:

First time yesterday and again today. I was sitting around for an hour >>>> yesterday thinking it was a power cut, but investigation showed it was >>>> a trip of the main breaker.
I have noticed the breaker is very hard to reset, very stiff to change >>>> switch position for reset. Not sure if that is a problem itself yet.

I had a kettle on this morning when it tripped, but used the kettle
many times yesterday without incident.

It could be many things, in two senses.

It could be that you have 'many things' each of which is adding a little >>> leakage and that adding just one more has been "the straw that breaks
the camel's back".  One particular type of 'thing' that can do this is
PCs.  Have you several PCs running?

The other type of 'many things' is simply that it could simply be one
thing which has slowly deteriorated and is now tripping the RCD
occasionally.  A common culprit for this is an oven element.

It can of course also be a wiring fault where some insualation has worn
or a junction box has got water in it but these are relatively rarer (at >>> least in my experience).

The breaker being "very hard to reset" isn't significant I don't think.

If repeatedly tripped my experience is that some RCDs get paranoid and
trip again even though the main leakage culprit has been removed.
Usually however, if this happens, just remove all the loads, reset the
breaker and then turn circuits back on one by one.  Of course if you
then get a trip when one of the circuits is turned back on you have a
good clue as to where the problem is.

All in all it can be quite difficult to find what is causing the trip
when it's a bit random (as you're seeing).  If it's something like an
oven element failing then it almost always gets worse quite quickly and
is then easy to find.  Otherwise you will just have to try and be as
logical as you can when trying to deduce where the problem is.

Only one PC running at the moment.

Unless they are unplugged or physically switched off (not the PC power button), the power input filters will still be connected to the mains
and they'll still contribute to the total leakage.

Very true. I was called out to a health centre last week. There was an overnight power cut but one office ring circuit had tripped when the
power came back on and was off in the morning. It also tripped when the facility guy tried to turn it back on so I was called out.

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ARW <[email protected]> wrote in
news:vme7ll$5n70$[email protected]:

On 17/01/2025 10:11, RJH wrote:

I'd have to break the seal to isolate the CU, leaving the only way to
isolate to any extent is at the CU.

Fit a new seal?

or don't bother?

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RJH <[email protected]> wrote:

Yes, it's that 'be sure' bit that makes me want to isolate away from the CU.

If you don't already have a smart meter, you may be able to persuade them to fit an isolator at the same time as doing the meter swap. Or you could get
an electrician to do it.

It's something I looked at because an electrician just quoted me nearly £500 to fit (and presumably check etc.) an additional MCB to the CU, and connect it
to existing cable.

'e's 'avin' a larf.

Should be a half hour work tops, including testing the circuit (assuming
it's not something like an entire ring main where they have to unplug everything). £500 is new consumer unit money - not needed unless the
existing CU is full or ancient.

Theo

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On 17/01/2025 12:58, SteveW wrote:

On 17/01/2025 12:23, jon wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:30:29 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

All in all it can be quite difficult to find what is causing the trip
when it's a bit random (as you're seeing). If it's something like an
oven element failing then it almost always gets worse quite quickly and
is then easy to find. Otherwise you will just have to try and be as
logical as you can when trying to deduce where the problem is.

Only one PC running at the moment.

Unless they are unplugged or physically switched off (not the PC power button), the power input filters will still be connected to the mains
and they'll still contribute to the total leakage.

Not just PCs. My Beko tumble drier has the filter where the cable enters
before the mains switch. It developed a fault and would trip the RCD
when the machine had cooled down after being used. An identical OEM
replacement did the same thing after a few years. I've now replaced that
one with a completely different filter. Only time will tell if that's
any better.

--
Jeff

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