• Re: Moving from Mojave

    From Alan B@21:1/5 to Another John on Sun Jun 12 09:41:13 2022
    Another John <[email protected]> wrote:
    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS. Catalina? or Big Sur? -- what
    would you recommend?

    And: how long might the operation take, with a fair wind and calm seas?

    You should be OK with Catalina.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/SP803?locale=en_GB>

    If you check the specs for BS it says 2014 iMac or newer.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833?locale=en_GB>

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Alan B on Sun Jun 12 09:47:03 2022
    Alan B <[email protected]> wrote:
    Another John <[email protected]> wrote:
    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS. Catalina? or Big Sur? -- what
    would you recommend?

    And: how long might the operation take, with a fair wind and calm seas?

    You should be OK with Catalina.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/SP803?locale=en_GB>

    If you check the specs for BS it says 2014 iMac or newer.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833?locale=en_GB>


    You probably know this but from Catalina onwards 32 bit apps such as
    MacSOUP are no longer supported :(

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Another John@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 12 10:28:02 2022
    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS. Catalina? or Big Sur? -- what
    would you recommend?

    And: how long might the operation take, with a fair wind and calm seas?

    Cheers
    John

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Alan B on Sun Jun 12 11:06:47 2022
    Alan B <[email protected]> wrote:
    You should be OK with Catalina.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/SP803?locale=en_GB>

    If you check the specs for BS it says 2014 iMac or newer.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833?locale=en_GB>

    Worth mentioning that OCLP can install up to Monterey: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html

    bearing in mind that Catalina will likely go out of support when Ventura is released, so either way you'll end up on an unsupported OS.

    Theo

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  • From Another John@21:1/5 to Alan B on Sun Jun 12 11:07:41 2022
    In article <t84cmn$n9t$[email protected]>,
    Alan B <[email protected]> wrote:

    You probably know this but from Catalina onwards 32 bit apps such as
    MacSOUP are no longer supported :(

    I did not Alan - thank you, and thank you for your other post.

    I'm a simple soul: used Macs since c.1990, but have become less and less technical since I retired -- just like to "get on with my work"!

    Cheers
    John

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Theo on Sun Jun 12 10:32:59 2022
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:
    Alan B <[email protected]> wrote:
    You should be OK with Catalina.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/SP803?locale=en_GB>

    If you check the specs for BS it says 2014 iMac or newer.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833?locale=en_GB>

    Worth mentioning that OCLP can install up to Monterey: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html

    bearing in mind that Catalina will likely go out of support when Ventura is released, so either way you'll end up on an unsupported OS.

    I notice that no MBAs after 2014 are mentioned. Anyway my main Mac is an M1 machine so perhaps I should not get too concerned except for the support
    issue. A few years ago I upgraded a white MacBook beyond El Capitan but
    there was definitely a performance hit and of course some features did not work.

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to Another John on Sun Jun 12 11:51:57 2022
    On 12/06/2022 10:28, Another John wrote:
    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS. Catalina? or Big Sur? -- what
    would you recommend?

    I've been running Catalina on a slightly older machine (2012) with no
    real problems for a while now. Boot up is a bit slower but everything
    else seems OK. Don't think it can run Big Sur, I've never been offered
    it as an update.


    And: how long might the operation take, with a fair wind and calm seas?


    The classic how long is a piece of string question, didn't take me very
    long but YMMV.


    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Alan B on Sun Jun 12 15:36:29 2022
    Alan B <[email protected]> wrote:
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:
    Worth mentioning that OCLP can install up to Monterey: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html

    bearing in mind that Catalina will likely go out of support when Ventura is released, so either way you'll end up on an unsupported OS.

    I notice that no MBAs after 2014 are mentioned.

    The 2015 MBAs are supported by mainline Monterey, so there's no need for a 'patcher'. Presumably OCLP will add support for them if/when it adds Ventura support.

    Anyway my main Mac is an M1 machine so perhaps I should not get too
    concerned except for the support issue. A few years ago I upgraded a
    white MacBook beyond El Capitan but there was definitely a performance hit and of course some features did not work.

    Yes, it can be hit and miss. Although OCLP does say that does and doesn't work. It's also a moving target as Apple issue new releases.

    Theo

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  • From Neill Massello@21:1/5 to Another John on Sun Jun 12 17:44:45 2022
    On 2022-06-12 at 04:07:41 MDT, "Another John" <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <t84cmn$n9t$[email protected]>,
    Alan B <[email protected]> wrote:

    You probably know this but from Catalina onwards 32 bit apps such as
    MacSOUP are no longer supported :(

    I did not Alan - thank you, and thank you for your other post.

    I'm a simple soul: used Macs since c.1990, but have become less and less technical since I retired -- just like to "get on with my work"!

    The freeware app Go64 will list software that isn't ready for Catalina et seq.

    <https://www.stclairsoft.com/Go64/index.html>

    As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.

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  • From TimS@21:1/5 to Another John on Sun Jun 12 18:29:07 2022
    On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS.

    Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.

    --
    Tim

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  • From TimS@21:1/5 to Another John on Sun Jun 12 21:01:36 2022
    On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS.

    Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.

    Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:

    As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference >> between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
    from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
    only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.

    ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the security updates is the main reason.
    Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
    up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
    nagging, now).

    Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
    Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
    between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.

    Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
    in a year or two....

    At which point you won't have the choice, sad to say. Last year I did buy an Intel Mini for SWMBO which in theory should have been the same model as mine, but it came with BS and I was unable to force Mojave onto it (perhaps someone more expert than I could have done it). Changes since then don't amount to
    much more than UI changes for the sake of it. And shitty they are, too.

    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using white ink.

    --
    Tim

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  • From Another John@21:1/5 to TimS on Sun Jun 12 21:48:39 2022
    In article <[email protected]>,
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS.

    Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.

    Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:

    As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
    from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.

    ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the security updates is the main reason.
    Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
    up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
    nagging, now).

    Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
    Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
    between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your
    policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.

    Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
    in a year or two....

    Thanks for the discussion chaps: food for thought.

    John

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Another John on Mon Jun 13 06:26:51 2022
    Another John <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS.

    Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.

    Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:

    As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference >> between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
    from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
    only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.

    ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the security updates is the main reason.
    Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
    up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
    nagging, now).

    Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
    Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
    between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.

    Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
    in a year or two....

    Thanks for the discussion chaps: food for thought.

    Given that Mojave support has ended and Catalina’s ends later this year, there!s probably not much point upgrading. If you have and want to continue using any 32 bit apps, then you have no choice but to stick with Mojave. I guess you could run Mojave as a VM if you installed Catalina but that seems
    way over the top!

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to TimS on Mon Jun 13 09:30:45 2022
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS.

    Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.


    Same here (couple of 2012 machines). At least, until I can afford a newer model. Can’t help thinking the ‘new year, new OS’ thing (or however often
    it is) is a bit excessive.

    --
    Cheers ... Mark

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to Mark on Mon Jun 13 13:03:30 2022
    On 13/06/2022 10:30, Mark wrote:
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5.

    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS.

    Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.


    Same here (couple of 2012 machines). At least, until I can afford a newer model. Can’t help thinking the ‘new year, new OS’ thing (or however often
    it is) is a bit excessive.


    My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on
    having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to TimS on Mon Jun 13 13:00:59 2022
    On 12/06/2022 22:01, TimS wrote:
    On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote: >>>
    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5. >>>>
    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly
    high time I moved to a more recent OS.

    Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.

    Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:

    As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference >>> between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
    from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
    only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.

    ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the
    security updates is the main reason.
    Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
    up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
    nagging, now).

    Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
    Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
    between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your
    policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.

    Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
    in a year or two....

    At which point you won't have the choice, sad to say. Last year I did buy an Intel Mini for SWMBO which in theory should have been the same model as mine, but it came with BS and I was unable to force Mojave onto it (perhaps someone more expert than I could have done it). Changes since then don't amount to much more than UI changes for the sake of it. And shitty they are, too.

    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
    white ink.


    From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
    university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
    even remember computer screens being black with green text.

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 13 08:10:05 2022
    In article <t878tr$6l5$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:


    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
    white ink.


    From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
    even remember computer screens being black with green text.

    or amber.

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  • From TimS@21:1/5 to Graeme Wall on Mon Jun 13 13:45:42 2022
    On 13 Jun 2022 at 13:00:59 BST, Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12/06/2022 22:01, TimS wrote:
    On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5. >>>>>
    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly >>>>> high time I moved to a more recent OS.

    Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.

    Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:

    As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference
    between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
    from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
    only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.

    ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the >>> security updates is the main reason.
    Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put
    up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
    nagging, now).

    Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big
    Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
    between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your >>> policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.

    Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac,
    in a year or two....

    At which point you won't have the choice, sad to say. Last year I did buy an >> Intel Mini for SWMBO which in theory should have been the same model as mine,
    but it came with BS and I was unable to force Mojave onto it (perhaps someone
    more expert than I could have done it). Changes since then don't amount to >> much more than UI changes for the sake of it. And shitty they are, too.

    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
    problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I >> read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
    white ink.

    From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
    even remember computer screens being black with green text.

    Goths, probably.

    --
    Tim

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  • From Richard Tobin@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 13 14:05:18 2022
    In article <t878tr$6l5$[email protected]>,
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
    university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
    even remember computer screens being black with green text.

    The ones I used in the 70s were all white-on-black, which had the
    advantage that they could also be used as monitors for CCTV etc and
    even show text superimposed on a black-and-white video image.

    -- Richard

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  • From Bob Campbell@21:1/5 to nospam on Mon Jun 13 08:48:35 2022
    nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
    In article <t878tr$6l5$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:


    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
    problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I >>> read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper >>> using
    white ink.


    From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
    university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
    even remember computer screens being black with green text.

    or amber.

    Or white.

    Personally, I don’t get the point of Dark Mode either. I feel like it is just the “new” factor. If all we had was Dark Mode for the past 40 years, then White Mode would now be “new and cool”.

    But whatever.

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to Campbell on Mon Jun 13 10:12:43 2022
    In article <[email protected]>, Bob
    Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:

    From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
    university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
    even remember computer screens being black with green text.

    or amber.

    Or white.

    white was harsher on the eyes, thus the preference for amber or green.

    Personally, I don�t get the point of Dark Mode either. I feel like it is just the �new� factor. If all we had was Dark Mode for the past 40 years, then White Mode would now be �new and cool�.

    for those who work in the dark, dark more is less jarring.

    But whatever.

    yep

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 13 10:12:42 2022
    In article <t87g6u$82s$[email protected]>, Richard Tobin <[email protected]> wrote:

    The ones I used in the 70s were all white-on-black, which had the
    advantage that they could also be used as monitors for CCTV etc and
    even show text superimposed on a black-and-white video image.

    that's a function of the hardware, not the phosphor.

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to nospam on Mon Jun 13 14:28:20 2022
    nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:
    In article <t8792i$6l5$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on
    having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.

    mac studio + 27" studio display or even better, a 32" xdr display.

    Is Apple in the process of dropping the iMac range or has it something
    special in mind later this year?

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Richard Tobin@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 13 14:24:52 2022
    In article <130620221012420382%[email protected]d>,
    nospam <[email protected]d> wrote:

    The ones I used in the 70s were all white-on-black, which had the
    advantage that they could also be used as monitors for CCTV etc and
    even show text superimposed on a black-and-white video image.

    that's a function of the hardware, not the phosphor.

    Displaying a black-and-white image is obviously dependent on the
    phospor.

    -- Richard

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to nospam on Mon Jun 13 17:10:10 2022
    On 13/06/2022 13:10, nospam wrote:
    In article <t8792i$6l5$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on
    having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.

    mac studio + 27" studio display or even better, a 32" xdr display.

    Agreed but at what cost?

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to Richard Tobin on Mon Jun 13 17:14:20 2022
    On 13/06/2022 15:05, Richard Tobin wrote:
    In article <t878tr$6l5$[email protected]>,
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
    university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
    even remember computer screens being black with green text.

    The ones I used in the 70s were all white-on-black, which had the
    advantage that they could also be used as monitors for CCTV etc and
    even show text superimposed on a black-and-white video image.


    The green ones were, apparently, because they could deliver a brighter
    picture in daylight. Some of the early hand-held tv cameras used them
    for viewfinders for that reason.


    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to TimS on Mon Jun 13 17:11:38 2022
    On 13/06/2022 14:45, TimS wrote:
    On 13 Jun 2022 at 13:00:59 BST, Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12/06/2022 22:01, TimS wrote:
    On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote: >>>
    In article <[email protected]>,
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 10:28:02 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>
    Hi all - I have a 27"iMac, late 2013, 16GB RAM, 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5. >>>>>>
    I've been running Mojave for a few years now, and think it's possibly >>>>>> high time I moved to a more recent OS.

    Um, why? I'll be sticking with Mojave for as long as I can.

    Hm. Good question. Having read what Neill has said:

    As far as the user experience is concerned, there isn't a lot of difference
    between Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey. In spite of all the "incredible" gush
    from Tm Cook et al, the new features in macOS these days are very marginal. I
    only upgrade to keep current with the security measures.

    ... I'm now not sure sure that I want to update. Neill's point about the >>>> security updates is the main reason.
    Another one is to get rid of Apple's nagging me to update (but I've put >>>> up with that for a year or two, and anyway I think they've given up
    nagging, now).

    Neill's point that there's isn't much difference between Catalina, Big >>>> Sure and Monterey (which implies to me that there _is_ a difference
    between Mojave and Catalina) .... it all adds up to falling in with your >>>> policy Tim -- if it ain't broke, etc.

    Perhaps I should wait until I decide I need to afford a brand new Mac, >>>> in a year or two....

    At which point you won't have the choice, sad to say. Last year I did buy an
    Intel Mini for SWMBO which in theory should have been the same model as mine,
    but it came with BS and I was unable to force Mojave onto it (perhaps someone
    more expert than I could have done it). Changes since then don't amount to >>> much more than UI changes for the sake of it. And shitty they are, too.

    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
    problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I >>> read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
    white ink.

    From observation (my regular bus route into town goes through the
    university) it is very popular with the younger generation who don't
    even remember computer screens being black with green text.

    Goths, probably.


    Don't think the Chinese do Goth. (Lots of Chinese students at Surrey Uni)

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 13 12:27:54 2022
    In article <t87hi4$tq$[email protected]>, Alan
    B <[email protected]> wrote:

    Is Apple in the process of dropping the iMac range or has it something special in mind later this year?

    nobody outside of a very small number of people inside apple know.

    that said, a mac studio with either a studio display or pro xdr display
    appears to have replaced the imac pro and even the mac pro in many
    tasks.

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 13 12:27:55 2022
    In article <t87nos$nps$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    The green ones were, apparently, because they could deliver a brighter picture in daylight. Some of the early hand-held tv cameras used them
    for viewfinders for that reason.

    it's because the human eye is most sensitive to green, which is one
    reason why the sensors on digital cameras normally have two green
    sensels in a 2x2 bayer matrix. there are a few variants, which don't
    have much of an advantage.

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jun 13 12:27:53 2022
    In article <t87hbk$96s$[email protected]>, Richard Tobin <[email protected]> wrote:

    The ones I used in the 70s were all white-on-black, which had the
    advantage that they could also be used as monitors for CCTV etc and
    even show text superimposed on a black-and-white video image.

    that's a function of the hardware, not the phosphor.

    Displaying a black-and-white image is obviously dependent on the
    phospor.

    you described using it for cctv, which is not.

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to nospam on Mon Jun 13 17:32:33 2022
    On 13/06/2022 17:27, nospam wrote:
    In article <t87nos$nps$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    The green ones were, apparently, because they could deliver a brighter
    picture in daylight. Some of the early hand-held tv cameras used them
    for viewfinders for that reason.

    it's because the human eye is most sensitive to green,

    So subjectively brighter.

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From Mark Bestley@21:1/5 to TimS on Mon Jun 13 19:02:45 2022
    TimS <[email protected]> writes:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:


    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
    white ink.

    I would have said that up to a couple of years ago. But then I got floaters in my eyes. It is now difficult to read normal black on white, that includes newspapers and books, it is much easier and less of a strain to use dark mode.
    --
    Mark

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Graeme Wall on Mon Jun 13 19:48:38 2022
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 13/06/2022 13:10, nospam wrote:
    In article <t8792i$6l5$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on
    having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.

    mac studio + 27" studio display or even better, a 32" xdr display.

    Agreed but at what cost?

    Mac Mini + non-Apple display?

    (Mac purists may tell you it *must* be 5K, but Macs will happily rescale to
    a non 2:1 pixel density. You may find a 4K panel with a slightly lower
    pixel density plus rescaling is sharp enough)

    Theo

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to Mark Bestley on Mon Jun 13 19:16:03 2022
    On 13/06/2022 19:02, Mark Bestley wrote:
    TimS <[email protected]> writes:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:


    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
    problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I >> read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
    white ink.

    I would have said that up to a couple of years ago. But then I got floaters in my eyes. It is now difficult to read normal black on white, that includes newspapers and books, it is much easier and less of a strain to use dark mode.

    Interesting, hadn't thought of that aspect.

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to TimS on Mon Jun 13 19:43:34 2022
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last time I read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black paper using
    white ink.

    My books don't tend to glow in the dark, not sure about yours.

    I much prefer dark mode - more restful on the eyes, since they aren't having
    to take in excess white light, which is important especially at night. It
    is more effective now that displays have got good at having decent black levels, rather than the backlight bleeding through to a murky grey like they used to. Plus OLED displays are black when turned off, so dark mode is the natural for those (phones in particular). Some OLED phones go into a low power state where the display is dark except for the clock and similar - there's a rumour this will be on the iPhone 14.

    Sadly it's often blown out of the water by web pages which are black text on white background. Some sites have themes, but relatively few.

    Theo

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to Theo on Mon Jun 13 19:59:37 2022
    On 13/06/2022 19:48, Theo wrote:
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 13/06/2022 13:10, nospam wrote:
    In article <t8792i$6l5$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on
    having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.

    mac studio + 27" studio display or even better, a 32" xdr display.

    Agreed but at what cost?

    Mac Mini + non-Apple display?

    (Mac purists may tell you it *must* be 5K, but Macs will happily rescale to
    a non 2:1 pixel density. You may find a 4K panel with a slightly lower
    pixel density plus rescaling is sharp enough)


    Is the route that I'm looking to go down, still quite a pricey option. I estimate it as being about a third more expensive, going back to the
    price differentials between the two iMacs when I bought mine.


    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From Andy Hewitt@21:1/5 to Graeme Wall on Mon Jun 13 20:45:37 2022
    On 13/06/2022 19:16, Graeme Wall wrote:
    On 13/06/2022 19:02, Mark Bestley wrote:
    TimS <[email protected]> writes:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
      TimS <[email protected]> wrote:


    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a
    problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last
    time I
    read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black
    paper using
    white ink.

    I would have said that up to a couple of years ago. But then I got
    floaters in my eyes. It is now difficult to read normal black on
    white, that includes newspapers and books, it is much easier and less
    of a strain to use dark mode.

    Interesting, hadn't thought of that aspect.

    Something I've been getting over the last few years too. It's
    noticeable, but I can still manage to edit photos and read small text.

    However, I would prefer it if it were possible to change it on an app by
    app basis (although I know you can for some if they include the option).

    I find it is preferable to have the dark mode for some things (Photos is
    one, although that does use a dark background when editing, but the
    switch from light to dark suddenly is not great), but not others (like
    Maps, that's just unusable in dark mode).

    To be fair, it's quite common for magazines to have light on dark
    blocks. However, I'd also say it's a different matter reading a
    reflective media compared to a backlit media.

    --
    Andy H

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  • From TimS@21:1/5 to Andy Hewitt on Mon Jun 13 20:57:11 2022
    On 13 Jun 2022 at 20:45:37 BST, Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 13/06/2022 19:16, Graeme Wall wrote:
    On 13/06/2022 19:02, Mark Bestley wrote:
    TimS <[email protected]> writes:

    On 12 Jun 2022 at 21:48:39 BST, Another John <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    TimS <[email protected]> wrote:

    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a >>>> problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last
    time I read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black >>>> paper using white ink.

    I would have said that up to a couple of years ago. But then I got
    floaters in my eyes. It is now difficult to read normal black on
    white, that includes newspapers and books, it is much easier and less
    of a strain to use dark mode.

    Interesting, hadn't thought of that aspect.

    Something I've been getting over the last few years too. It's
    noticeable, but I can still manage to edit photos and read small text.

    To be fair, it's quite common for magazines to have light on dark
    blocks.

    That's pure affectation on their part; I tend to avoid such.

    --
    Tim

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Graeme Wall on Mon Jun 13 22:36:19 2022
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 13/06/2022 19:48, Theo wrote:
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 13/06/2022 13:10, nospam wrote:
    In article <t8792i$6l5$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on >>>> having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.

    mac studio + 27" studio display or even better, a 32" xdr display.

    Agreed but at what cost?

    Mac Mini + non-Apple display?

    (Mac purists may tell you it *must* be 5K, but Macs will happily rescale to a non 2:1 pixel density. You may find a 4K panel with a slightly lower pixel density plus rescaling is sharp enough)


    Is the route that I'm looking to go down, still quite a pricey option. I estimate it as being about a third more expensive, going back to the
    price differentials between the two iMacs when I bought mine.

    What vintage of iMac is it, btw? Not one that supports Target Display mode
    by any chance? You could use it as an external display with a new Mac mini. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204592

    (if you have a newer iMac there are software workarounds that aren't as
    good)

    Theo

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  • From Andy Hewitt@21:1/5 to TimS on Mon Jun 13 23:00:15 2022
    On 13/06/2022 21:57, TimS wrote:
    On 13 Jun 2022 at 20:45:37 BST, Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:

    And then there's the Dark Mode bollocks, another solution looking for a >>>>> problem. I dislike this since I have difficulty remembering the last >>>>> time I read a book, a newspaper, or a magazine which was printed on black >>>>> paper using white ink.

    To be fair, it's quite common for magazines to have light on dark
    blocks.

    That's pure affectation on their part; I tend to avoid such.

    I was only pointing out that such thing existed! ;-)

    --
    Andy H

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to Theo on Tue Jun 14 08:09:49 2022
    On 13/06/2022 22:36, Theo wrote:
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 13/06/2022 19:48, Theo wrote:
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 13/06/2022 13:10, nospam wrote:
    In article <t8792i$6l5$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    My problem is replacing my 27" iMac! My workflow is now dependant on >>>>>> having that amount of screen space and the 24" models don't really hack it.

    mac studio + 27" studio display or even better, a 32" xdr display.

    Agreed but at what cost?

    Mac Mini + non-Apple display?

    (Mac purists may tell you it *must* be 5K, but Macs will happily rescale to >>> a non 2:1 pixel density. You may find a 4K panel with a slightly lower
    pixel density plus rescaling is sharp enough)


    Is the route that I'm looking to go down, still quite a pricey option. I
    estimate it as being about a third more expensive, going back to the
    price differentials between the two iMacs when I bought mine.

    What vintage of iMac is it, btw? Not one that supports Target Display mode by any chance? You could use it as an external display with a new Mac mini. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204592

    (if you have a newer iMac there are software workarounds that aren't as
    good)


    It's a late 2012 model, first of the slimline versions. But it won't
    work with a new mini.


    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Graeme Wall on Tue Jun 14 22:40:41 2022
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:
    It's a late 2012 model, first of the slimline versions. But it won't
    work with a new mini.

    Hmm, interesting. It seems TDM is 'special', it's not just a regular Displayport input but requires some handshaking between the two ends. I had hoped that you could just drive it from another regular video input, either
    DP or HDMI via a converter, but it seems that doesn't work. Which is sad,
    if the iMac is a perfectly good monitor with plenty of life.

    OTOH the 2012 27" is a 1440p display and I imagine finding a modern one of those wouldn't be too difficult.

    Another option is Luna Display, which is a hardware+software thingy. It's
    not a normal monitor though, and so there are limitations.

    Theo

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  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jun 14 22:07:26 2022
    On 13 Jun 2022 at 17:32:33 BST, "Graeme Wall"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 13/06/2022 17:27, nospam wrote:
    In article <t87nos$nps$[email protected]>, Graeme Wall
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The green ones were, apparently, because they could deliver a brighter
    picture in daylight. Some of the early hand-held tv cameras used them
    for viewfinders for that reason.

    it's because the human eye is most sensitive to green,

    So subjectively brighter.

    Don't think so (although that's subject to the usual "do we perceive
    colours the same as other people" sort of stuff). More discriminant, you
    can differentiate more shades of it than other colours.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    If you mean 'am I serious about what I do', the answer is yes.
    If you mean 'am I serious about how I do it', the answer is no.

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  • From Andy Hewitt@21:1/5 to Theo on Tue Jun 14 23:10:00 2022
    On 12/06/2022 11:06, Theo wrote:
    Alan B <[email protected]> wrote:
    You should be OK with Catalina.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/SP803?locale=en_GB>

    If you check the specs for BS it says 2014 iMac or newer.

    <https://support.apple.com/kb/sp833?locale=en_GB>

    Worth mentioning that OCLP can install up to Monterey: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html

    bearing in mind that Catalina will likely go out of support when Ventura is released, so either way you'll end up on an unsupported OS.

    Interesting, I gave that a try out on my old iMac 27" - Late 2013
    (currently on Catalina), 16GB RAM (8GB of that is Crucial), and a
    Crucial 500GB SSD internally.

    I used a spare USB external drive to bung Monterey onto and logged into
    a redundant iCloud account I already have.

    I was quite surprised at how well it ran, for the short test I tried, I
    didn't want to muck around with my main data though, so didn't have a
    lot to test it with (no documents or photos etc.)

    But, it did show that the latest OS's do run well on an older machine.
    Although I've always found this particular iMac model seems to be in a
    bit of a sweet spot as far as performance goes - I noticed a lot of
    users with newer models struggled with performance a fair bit when
    running system intensive apps (such as Lightroom Raw editing), where
    this old things always ran fine for such things.

    Ok, I can forego a few of the fancy newer features that might rely on
    newer hardware, if it's stable, and all my usual funtionality is still
    present, then why not?

    This could be something to consider if security patches stop being
    applied to Catalina.

    Any experiences of how stable running Monterey this way actually is? If
    it's reliable, I might consider installing it full time onto my internal
    HDD. Or at least make it live with my main iCloud account, and continue
    off the external for a while. I wouldn't want to risk it doing something untoward though, like emptying my Photos library or something similar
    (that's probably the worst that could happen).

    Cheers.

    --
    Andy H

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Theo on Wed Jun 15 07:03:24 2022
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:
    Alan B <[email protected]> wrote:
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:
    Worth mentioning that OCLP can install up to Monterey:
    https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html

    bearing in mind that Catalina will likely go out of support when Ventura is >>> released, so either way you'll end up on an unsupported OS.

    I notice that no MBAs after 2014 are mentioned.

    The 2015 MBAs are supported by mainline Monterey, so there's no need for a 'patcher'. Presumably OCLP will add support for them if/when it adds Ventura support.

    Won’t that be more of a challenge since I think Ventura as it stands won’t run on Macs that have no T2 chip?

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to Theo on Wed Jun 15 09:22:58 2022
    On 14/06/2022 22:40, Theo wrote:
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:
    It's a late 2012 model, first of the slimline versions. But it won't
    work with a new mini.

    Hmm, interesting. It seems TDM is 'special', it's not just a regular Displayport input but requires some handshaking between the two ends. I had hoped that you could just drive it from another regular video input, either DP or HDMI via a converter, but it seems that doesn't work. Which is sad,
    if the iMac is a perfectly good monitor with plenty of life.

    OTOH the 2012 27" is a 1440p display and I imagine finding a modern one of those wouldn't be too difficult.

    One of the reasons for changing is to get a better display!


    Another option is Luna Display, which is a hardware+software thingy. It's not a normal monitor though, and so there are limitations.

    Same problem.

    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From Andy Hewitt@21:1/5 to Andy Hewitt on Sat Jul 30 22:22:38 2022
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:

    However, I would prefer it if it were possible to change it on an app by
    app basis (although I know you can for some if they include the option).

    I find it is preferable to have the dark mode for some things (Photos is
    one, although that does use a dark background when editing, but the
    switch from light to dark suddenly is not great), but not others (like
    Maps, that's just unusable in dark mode).

    Well I never! Shortcuts to the rescue. I never even considered the
    possibility that it could even be done that way.

    I’ve set up a Shortcuts ‘Automation’ routine that sets dark mode when I open Photos, and then reverts to light mode when it quits. Perfect - and of course you could do that for any app you need to.

    --
    Andy H

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Andy Hewitt on Sun Jul 31 10:18:28 2022
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:

    However, I would prefer it if it were possible to change it on an app by
    app basis (although I know you can for some if they include the option).

    I find it is preferable to have the dark mode for some things (Photos is
    one, although that does use a dark background when editing, but the
    switch from light to dark suddenly is not great), but not others (like
    Maps, that's just unusable in dark mode).

    Well I never! Shortcuts to the rescue. I never even considered the possibility that it could even be done that way.

    I’ve set up a Shortcuts ‘Automation’ routine that sets dark mode when I open Photos, and then reverts to light mode when it quits. Perfect - and of course you could do that for any app you need to.

    That seems like a very useful shortcut! Knowing a bit about AppleScript
    helps I guess?

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Chris Ridd@21:1/5 to Alan B on Sun Jul 31 13:10:10 2022
    On 31/07/2022 11:18, Alan B wrote:
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:

    However, I would prefer it if it were possible to change it on an app by >>> app basis (although I know you can for some if they include the option). >>>
    I find it is preferable to have the dark mode for some things (Photos is >>> one, although that does use a dark background when editing, but the
    switch from light to dark suddenly is not great), but not others (like
    Maps, that's just unusable in dark mode).

    Well I never! Shortcuts to the rescue. I never even considered the
    possibility that it could even be done that way.

    I’ve set up a Shortcuts ‘Automation’ routine that sets dark mode when I
    open Photos, and then reverts to light mode when it quits. Perfect - and of >> course you could do that for any app you need to.

    That seems like a very useful shortcut! Knowing a bit about AppleScript helps I guess?

    You build shortcuts using drag and drop from a palette of commands drawn
    from all installed apps. There are commands to run scripts of various
    types too, but you might not need them.

    Personally I find Shortcuts as annoying as Applescript, though for
    different reasons. Shortcuts only seems to let you do what the other app developers thought of, and nothing else. Applescript's syntax is just
    painful for anyone who has ever done programming and I'm not convinced
    it is useful for anyone who hasn't.

    --
    Chris

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jul 31 08:41:14 2022
    In article <tc5rf4$aipb$[email protected]>, Chris Ridd
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Personally I find Shortcuts as annoying as Applescript, though for
    different reasons. Shortcuts only seems to let you do what the other app developers thought of, and nothing else.

    applescript is limited to what is exposed in the dictionary. only four
    events are required. the rest is up to the developer. some apps are
    very thorough. most are not.

    Applescript's syntax is just
    painful for anyone who has ever done programming and I'm not convinced
    it is useful for anyone who hasn't.

    it is.

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Chris Ridd on Sun Jul 31 12:27:51 2022
    Chris Ridd <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 31/07/2022 11:18, Alan B wrote:
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:

    However, I would prefer it if it were possible to change it on an app by >>>> app basis (although I know you can for some if they include the option). >>>>
    I find it is preferable to have the dark mode for some things (Photos is >>>> one, although that does use a dark background when editing, but the
    switch from light to dark suddenly is not great), but not others (like >>>> Maps, that's just unusable in dark mode).

    Well I never! Shortcuts to the rescue. I never even considered the
    possibility that it could even be done that way.

    I’ve set up a Shortcuts ‘Automation’ routine that sets dark mode when I
    open Photos, and then reverts to light mode when it quits. Perfect - and of >>> course you could do that for any app you need to.

    That seems like a very useful shortcut! Knowing a bit about AppleScript
    helps I guess?

    You build shortcuts using drag and drop from a palette of commands drawn
    from all installed apps. There are commands to run scripts of various
    types too, but you might not need them.

    Personally I find Shortcuts as annoying as Applescript, though for
    different reasons. Shortcuts only seems to let you do what the other app developers thought of, and nothing else. Applescript's syntax is just
    painful for anyone who has ever done programming and I'm not convinced
    it is useful for anyone who hasn't.

    I have ‘played’ with AS over the years but never became really anyway near expert with it. A year or so ago I wrote a couple of scripts with the
    intention of using them in shortcuts but never bothered in the end. I agree AS’s syntax is not for the faint hearted! I prefer shell scripts - not that I’m expert in those too!

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Andy Hewitt@21:1/5 to Chris Ridd on Sun Jul 31 16:38:52 2022
    On 31/07/2022 13:10, Chris Ridd wrote:

    Personally I find Shortcuts as annoying as Applescript, though for
    different reasons. Shortcuts only seems to let you do what the other app developers thought of, and nothing else. Applescript's syntax is just
    painful for anyone who has ever done programming and I'm not convinced
    it is useful for anyone who hasn't.

    Perhaps, but in this case, the desired result was achieved easily, and
    exactly as needed. I'm not really bothered what it was that got me
    there, to be honest.

    Applescript has often got me things done that I wouldn't have done
    otherwise (haven't done any programming stuff since I had an Atari 8-bit
    in the 80's). I quite often use other's scripts and modify them to suit
    my needs (like Old Toad's Photos scripts, which I use to create various
    batch Titles in Photos).

    --
    Andy H

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  • From Andy Hewitt@21:1/5 to Alan B on Sun Jul 31 16:34:59 2022
    On 31/07/2022 11:18, Alan B wrote:
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:

    However, I would prefer it if it were possible to change it on an app by >>> app basis (although I know you can for some if they include the option). >>>
    I find it is preferable to have the dark mode for some things (Photos is >>> one, although that does use a dark background when editing, but the
    switch from light to dark suddenly is not great), but not others (like
    Maps, that's just unusable in dark mode).

    Well I never! Shortcuts to the rescue. I never even considered the
    possibility that it could even be done that way.

    I’ve set up a Shortcuts ‘Automation’ routine that sets dark mode when I
    open Photos, and then reverts to light mode when it quits. Perfect - and of >> course you could do that for any app you need to.

    That seems like a very useful shortcut! Knowing a bit about AppleScript helps I guess?

    Not at all, it was all simple drag/drop, select from menus kind of stuff.

    --
    Andy H

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Andy Hewitt on Sun Jul 31 16:32:19 2022
    On 31 Jul 2022 at 16:34:59 BST, "Andy Hewitt" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 31/07/2022 11:18, Alan B wrote:
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:
    Andy Hewitt <[email protected]> wrote:

    However, I would prefer it if it were possible to change it on an app by >>>> app basis (although I know you can for some if they include the option). >>>>
    I find it is preferable to have the dark mode for some things (Photos is >>>> one, although that does use a dark background when editing, but the
    switch from light to dark suddenly is not great), but not others (like >>>> Maps, that's just unusable in dark mode).

    Well I never! Shortcuts to the rescue. I never even considered the
    possibility that it could even be done that way.

    I’ve set up a Shortcuts ‘Automation’ routine that sets dark mode when I
    open Photos, and then reverts to light mode when it quits. Perfect - and of >>> course you could do that for any app you need to.

    That seems like a very useful shortcut! Knowing a bit about AppleScript
    helps I guess?

    Not at all, it was all simple drag/drop, select from menus kind of stuff.

    Yes you're correct - I wasn't thinking outside the box, so to speak. I've accomplished something similar now with 4 essentially d&d actions. Much easier than messing with AppleScript.

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From DManzaluni@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 21 08:00:50 2022
    I'm in the same boat: I haven't upgraded from Mojave because I like iPhoto and don't use an iPhone so I dont like Photos. Also, I use Fusion so I dont want to update to APFS.

    But my MBP may have just died and Ihave been told that an insurance company is going to pay for a new computer

    So I will be doing a full system restore of Mojave onto a 2022 MBP!

    Stop laughing everyone: Let's see how that goes!!

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  • From David Kennedy@21:1/5 to DManzaluni on Sun Aug 21 16:08:45 2022
    On 21/08/2022 16:00, DManzaluni wrote:
    I'm in the same boat: I haven't upgraded from Mojave because I like iPhoto and don't use an iPhone so I dont like Photos. Also, I use Fusion so I dont want to update to APFS.

    But my MBP may have just died and Ihave been told that an insurance company is going to pay for a new computer

    So I will be doing a full system restore of Mojave onto a 2022 MBP!

    Stop laughing everyone: Let's see how that goes!!

    If it's a 2022 then it probably won't go at all.

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  • From DManzaluni@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 21 08:15:55 2022
    What would prevent a full system restore? It wouldn't give me a "different model" error message for restoration of an EARLIER OS, would it?

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  • From David Kennedy@21:1/5 to DManzaluni on Sun Aug 21 16:24:54 2022
    On 21/08/2022 16:15, DManzaluni wrote:
    What would prevent a full system restore? It wouldn't give me a "different model" error message for restoration of an EARLIER OS, would it?

    AFAIK the 2022 (5th generation) needs Monterey or later.

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to DManzaluni on Sun Aug 21 11:44:54 2022
    In article <[email protected]>,
    DManzaluni <[email protected]> wrote:


    I can't imagine many people have tried it but sounds like a severe case of "Uh-Oh1" I'll have to find out if Fusion works with APFS yet

    it does

    and if there is
    any alternative to iPhoto.

    photos, which is a much better app. there are also third party options,
    such as lightroom.

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  • From DManzaluni@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 21 08:38:11 2022
    What would prevent a full system restore? It wouldn't give me a "different model" error message for restoration of an EARLIER OS, would it?

    AFAIK the 2022 (5th generation) needs Monterey or later.

    I can't imagine many people have tried it but sounds like a severe case of "Uh-Oh1" I'll have to find out if Fusion works with APFS yet and if there is any alternative to iPhoto. Or if they have yet upgraded Photos so that it has the functionality of
    iPhoto or if Photos is still quite as klunky as it was when I first tried it?

    In point of fact,Lots of Apple reps to whom I have spoken say that users have very often stayed with Mojave for my reasons.

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  • From DManzaluni@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 21 10:12:41 2022
    and if there is
    any alternative to iPhoto.
    photos, which is a much better app. there are also third party options,
    such as lightroom.

    E.G. When I tried Photos, I found it very difficult to search amongst tens of thousands of pics. In iPhoto, you hover above an event to see all the pics in it. I couldnt do this search in Photos.

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  • From DManzaluni@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 21 15:05:28 2022
    Thanks for that Theo. It hadnt occurred to me that it would make any difference with an OLDER version.
    But I can see that you are right.

    It also hadnt occurred tome to run a MacOS in a VM on a mac.

    If I can get Fusion to work, it doesnt sound so daunting!

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to DManzaluni on Sun Aug 21 22:50:30 2022
    DManzaluni <[email protected]> wrote:
    What would prevent a full system restore? It wouldn't give me a
    "different model" error message for restoration of an EARLIER OS, would
    it?

    Mojave runs on Intel Macs, a 2022 Mac is likely to be Apple Silicon. *Everything* is different.

    In general Macs won't work with any OS older than the one they were first shipped with.

    You might be able to copy the Photos app and try to run it on Monterey under Rosetta, but I'm not sure how much it depends on other stuff in the OS.

    The other option is to run the old OS in a virtual machine, for those apps
    you can't run natively.

    Theo

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  • From David Kennedy@21:1/5 to Theo on Mon Aug 22 06:50:12 2022
    On 21/08/2022 22:50, Theo wrote:
    DManzaluni <[email protected]> wrote:
    What would prevent a full system restore? It wouldn't give me a
    "different model" error message for restoration of an EARLIER OS, would
    it?

    Mojave runs on Intel Macs, a 2022 Mac is likely to be Apple Silicon. *Everything* is different.

    In general Macs won't work with any OS older than the one they were first shipped with.

    You might be able to copy the Photos app and try to run it on Monterey under Rosetta, but I'm not sure how much it depends on other stuff in the OS.

    You can't. The icon shows the "No Entry" sign.

    The other option is to run the old OS in a virtual machine, for those apps you can't run natively.

    Theo


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  • From David Kennedy@21:1/5 to David Kennedy on Mon Aug 22 07:43:29 2022
    On 22/08/2022 06:50, David Kennedy wrote:
    On 21/08/2022 22:50, Theo wrote:
    DManzaluni <[email protected]> wrote:
    What would prevent a full system restore?  It wouldn't give me a
    "different model" error message for restoration of an EARLIER OS, would
    it?

    Mojave runs on Intel Macs, a 2022 Mac is likely to be Apple Silicon.
    *Everything* is different.

    In general Macs won't work with any OS older than the one they were first
    shipped with.

    You might be able to copy the Photos app and try to run it on Monterey under >> Rosetta, but I'm not sure how much it depends on other stuff in the OS.

    You can't. The icon shows the "No Entry" sign.

    The other option is to run the old OS in a virtual machine, for those apps

    Sorry, I miss parsed that as "under Monterey"

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Theo on Mon Aug 22 08:25:10 2022
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:
    DManzaluni <[email protected]> wrote:
    What would prevent a full system restore? It wouldn't give me a
    "different model" error message for restoration of an EARLIER OS, would
    it?

    Mojave runs on Intel Macs, a 2022 Mac is likely to be Apple Silicon. *Everything* is different.

    In general Macs won't work with any OS older than the one they were first shipped with.

    You might be able to copy the Photos app and try to run it on Monterey under Rosetta, but I'm not sure how much it depends on other stuff in the OS.

    The other option is to run the old OS in a virtual machine, for those apps you can't run natively.

    From what I’ve read, it might be possible to run Mojave as a VM using UTM
    on a Silicon Mac but clearly it would run - probably unacceptably - slow as
    it will be using Intel processor emulation.

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to DManzaluni on Mon Aug 22 11:36:39 2022
    DManzaluni <[email protected]> wrote:
    Thanks for that Theo. It hadnt occurred to me that it would make any
    difference with an OLDER version. But I can see that you are right.

    It also hadnt occurred tome to run a MacOS in a VM on a mac.

    If I can get Fusion to work, it doesnt sound so daunting!

    Why do you want a Fusion drive, on a machine with an internal SSD? I don't think any Apple Silicon Macs have HDD.

    I'm not sure you can install MacOS on HFS+ any more, but I can't see why you would want to.

    Possibly if you were booting from an external HDD performance might suffer
    on APFS, but I really wouldn't recommend that. An external HDD for data
    using HFS+ is fine.

    (I assume your comments about avoiding APFS and using Fusion refer to the 'Fusion drive' concept, not VMWare Fusion virtual machines)

    Theo

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to David Kennedy on Mon Aug 22 11:31:12 2022
    David Kennedy <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 22/08/2022 06:50, David Kennedy wrote:
    On 21/08/2022 22:50, Theo wrote:
    You might be able to copy the Photos app and try to run it on Monterey
    under Rosetta, but I'm not sure how much it depends on other stuff in
    the OS.

    You can't. The icon shows the "No Entry" sign.

    The other option is to run the old OS in a virtual machine, for those
    apps

    Sorry, I miss parsed that as "under Monterey"

    I wonder if iPhoto (what I meant instead of Photos) is a 32 bit Intel app? Which might explain the lack of operation under Monterey, even on Intel
    Macs? Apparently 'no entry' is also caused by incorrect permissions.

    You should be able to run it in a Mojave VM anyway. I've been running x86 Linux VMs under UTM on M1 and it's 'ok'. Performance is not good when
    you need to do lots of compute, but when you just want to do light things
    it's usable.

    Theo

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  • From DManzaluni@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 22 06:25:18 2022
    (I assume your comments about avoiding APFS and using Fusion refer to the 'Fusion drive' concept, not VMWare Fusion virtual machines)

    Theo


    Actually no! I meant VMWare Fusion Not sure what fusion drive is but I suppose I'll now need to see how VMWare runs under an M1 chip, if that's what I am getting.

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to DManzaluni on Wed Aug 31 07:53:38 2022
    DManzaluni <[email protected]> wrote:

    (I assume your comments about avoiding APFS and using Fusion refer to the
    'Fusion drive' concept, not VMWare Fusion virtual machines)

    Theo


    Actually no! I meant VMWare Fusion Not sure what fusion drive is but I suppose I'll now need to see how VMWare runs under an M1 chip, if that's what I am getting.

    It’s still a work in progress. You would be better off with UTM (QEMU+) or
    if you want to spend some money Parallels runs very well on M1 Macs.

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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