• Steam goes ARM native

    From Ian McCall@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 14 09:21:22 2025
    Finally. You need to be on the beta version, but Steam can now be had as an Apple Silicon version. Leaves just two Intel apps I use regularly - Hogwasher (from the App Store) and the game I use Steam to launch: Elder Scrolls
    Online.

    That last one I’m mildly worried by Apple’s recent Intel/Rosetta 2 sunsetting announcements but that’s still a few years away so things can change. Doubt will ever go native though - it’s Zenimax, who are owned by Microsoft so they don’t have much of an incentive.

    Hogwasher - I did have an interaction a while ago saying a native version was on the way, so will just wait. That’s the main one actually - the one I
    leave running all the time in its own space. Be nice to see that one go
    native too.

    Cheers,
    Ian

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Ian McCall on Sat Jun 14 10:44:08 2025
    Ian McCall <[email protected]> wrote:
    That last one I’m mildly worried by Apple’s recent Intel/Rosetta 2 sunsetting announcements but that’s still a few years away so things can change. Doubt will ever go native though - it’s Zenimax, who are owned by Microsoft so they don’t have much of an incentive.

    I would not be surprised if there's a way to run the Windows version via Proton/Crossover/Wine/QEMU/etc. Performance won't be as good as Rosetta,
    but that's depends on whether the game is particularly performance
    critical. Any performance deficit may be (partially) offset by faster Apple Silicon chips anyway.

    Theo

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  • From Ian McCall@21:1/5 to Theo on Sat Jun 14 14:08:03 2025
    On 14 Jun 2025, Theo wrote
    (in article <SVb*[email protected]>):

    I would not be surprised if there's a way to run the Windows version via Proton/Crossover/Wine/QEMU/etc.

    I’ll have to look into it at some point, but am a couple of years away from that I think. It definitely runs under Proton as my gaming PC is Linux-based and I run essentially everything from Steam using Proton and zero concerns. There are some games that deliberately shut themselves out of it, and those
    are the ones with Windows kernel anti-cheat stuff. I don’t play those kind
    of games anyway though (mostly FPS) so I’ve never had a hassle.

    That said - all those are Intel-to-Intel, just API translating. Not sure
    about Intel with no Roseeta available, I know Parallels can do it so maybe
    via that one day.

    Cheerrs,
    Ian

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Ian McCall on Sat Jun 14 19:57:56 2025
    Ian McCall <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 14 Jun 2025, Theo wrote
    (in article <SVb*[email protected]>):

    I would not be surprised if there's a way to run the Windows version via Proton/Crossover/Wine/QEMU/etc.

    I’ll have to look into it at some point, but am a couple of years away from that I think. It definitely runs under Proton as my gaming PC is Linux-based and I run essentially everything from Steam using Proton and zero concerns. There are some games that deliberately shut themselves out of it, and those are the ones with Windows kernel anti-cheat stuff. I don’t play those kind of games anyway though (mostly FPS) so I’ve never had a hassle.

    That said - all those are Intel-to-Intel, just API translating. Not sure about Intel with no Roseeta available, I know Parallels can do it so maybe via that one day.

    QEMU can run Intel binaries on Arm, doing JIT of the instructions.
    Performance worse than Rosetta but ok. I'm not quite sure whether macOS exposes the hooks to say 'Ah, that's not a macOS binary you want to run,
    it's Linux-ELF-x86 or Win-PE-x86 so run it with qemu', but I'm sure there
    are ways.

    Theo

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Chris on Sat Jun 21 08:34:08 2025
    Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:
    Ian McCall <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 14 Jun 2025, Theo wrote
    (in article <SVb*[email protected]>):

    I would not be surprised if there's a way to run the Windows version via >>>> Proton/Crossover/Wine/QEMU/etc.

    I'll have to look into it at some point, but am a couple of years away from >>> that I think. It definitely runs under Proton as my gaming PC is Linux-based
    and I run essentially everything from Steam using Proton and zero concerns. >>> There are some games that deliberately shut themselves out of it, and those >>> are the ones with Windows kernel anti-cheat stuff. I don't play those kind >>> of games anyway though (mostly FPS) so I've never had a hassle.

    That said - all those are Intel-to-Intel, just API translating. Not sure >>> about Intel with no Roseeta available, I know Parallels can do it so maybe >>> via that one day.

    QEMU can run Intel binaries on Arm, doing JIT of the instructions.
    Performance worse than Rosetta but ok.

    I tried running AMD64 Ubuntu with UTM and it was unusable. Took about 5 minutes to find the shutdown button and activate it.

    I tried that a while back and gave up in disgust! FWIW I did get WinXP to run though ;-)

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Chris on Sat Jun 21 12:28:56 2025
    Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    Theo <[email protected]> wrote:
    Ian McCall <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 14 Jun 2025, Theo wrote
    (in article <SVb*[email protected]>):

    I would not be surprised if there's a way to run the Windows version via >>> Proton/Crossover/Wine/QEMU/etc.

    I’ll have to look into it at some point, but am a couple of years away from
    that I think. It definitely runs under Proton as my gaming PC is Linux-based
    and I run essentially everything from Steam using Proton and zero concerns.
    There are some games that deliberately shut themselves out of it, and those
    are the ones with Windows kernel anti-cheat stuff. I don’t play those kind
    of games anyway though (mostly FPS) so I’ve never had a hassle.

    That said - all those are Intel-to-Intel, just API translating. Not sure >> about Intel with no Roseeta available, I know Parallels can do it so maybe >> via that one day.

    QEMU can run Intel binaries on Arm, doing JIT of the instructions. Performance worse than Rosetta but ok.

    I tried running AMD64 Ubuntu with UTM and it was unusable. Took about 5 minutes to find the shutdown button and activate it.

    That's system mode emulation - the whole kernel, everything. QEMU also has user mode emulation - just emulate one binary. I use that for FPGA
    synthesis (x86-64 binaries inside an aarch64 Ubuntu VM) and on an M1 Mac
    mini it was about 4x slower than a beefy contemporary Intel laptop, while
    the full Ubuntu system emulation is ~20x slower. I did this test before Rosetta was released for use in VMs so don't have data for how it compares.

    This user mode emulation is how it would work for Wine - ie run one x86
    binary on an Arm system, not a full x86 Windows VM.

    Theo

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