• Howard Oakley - his article on Privacy

    From David@21:1/5 to David on Wed Mar 12 10:00:45 2025
    On 12/03/2025 08:51, David wrote:

    https://eclecticlight.co/2025/03/12/why-all-this-privacy-protection-an- overview/

    //When you run an app, it naturally runs with your full user’s
    privileges, and has access to everything according to the permissions
    set on folders and files. Just as you want your privileges to give the
    Finder and your mail client access to all your emails and their
    enclosures, all other apps that you run enjoy those same privileges. But would you also want a third-party note-taking or photo-editing app to
    have that same level of access, even without your knowledge? Similarly,
    while you want FaceTime to have access to your Mac’s camera and
    microphone, would you be happy for any other app to access them without
    your being asked?//

    ChatGPT says ....

    Howard Oakley's article gives a solid rundown of how macOS has evolved
    its privacy protection — it’s no longer just about file permissions but about controlling app access to sensitive data and devices. Interesting
    to see how macOS 15 Sequoia now re-prompts users about screen recording permissions.

    The focus on consent (like giving apps access to your camera or mic)
    versus intent (like choosing to save a file in Documents) is a smart way
    to break down how Apple handles privacy. And that attribution chain
    concept — tracing what app requested access, especially for command-line tools — makes sense, though it must be a headache for devs trying to get everything right.

    =

    I asked - "Can you see how EtreCheck can get around all this protection?"

    =

    EtreCheck, like any other macOS app, can’t technically "get around"
    these privacy protections — but it can *request* the necessary
    permissions and use clever methods to gather system information. Let’s break down how it likely works:

    1. **Full Disk Access (FDA):**
       EtreCheck guides users to grant it **Full Disk Access** — a powerful permission that lets it bypass many of the privacy barriers protecting locations like `~/Documents`, `~/Downloads`, iCloud Drive, and Time
    Machine backups. Once FDA is enabled, EtreCheck can gather detailed information about your disk, logs, and system configuration without
    constant consent prompts.

    2. **Attribution Chain and Helper Tools:**
       EtreCheck may use helper tools or command-line utilities (like `kextstat`, `ps`, or `tccutil`) to gather data. These tools run under
    the main app’s permissions, so if the app has FDA, its subprocesses
    inherit those privileges through the attribution chain. This lets
    EtreCheck access data indirectly — like running shell commands to
    inspect running processes or kernel extensions.

    3. **Entitlements and Info.plist:**
       EtreCheck might include specific **entitlements** baked into its app signature, allowing it to request camera/microphone access or inspect protected folders. The Info.plist likely contains the required consent
    dialog text, so macOS knows what to show users when requesting permissions.

    4. **Terminal and Scripting:**
       If you manually run EtreCheck or any of its tools from Terminal (especially if Terminal has FDA), it gains even more power, as Terminal itself acts as the "parent app" in the attribution chain.

    5. **Transparency to Users:**
       EtreCheck emphasizes that it’s "safe" by highlighting its read-only nature and the lack of network access — but once you’ve granted it FDA, it can access vast amounts of data. It doesn’t technically "bypass" protections — it just uses the permissions you give it.

    Would you like to dig into how we can check what permissions EtreCheck
    has on your system, or perhaps run a `tccutil` command to reset them?
    Let me know how deep you want to go!

    =

    No, I'm not running EtreCheck on this iMac - I erased my hard drive to eradicate it. I don't trust a Developer who will not communicate with me!

    =

    ChatGPT said:

    That makes perfect sense — trust is key, especially when it comes to
    apps with deep system access like EtreCheck. Let me know if you want to
    dive into other ways to monitor or lock down system privacy and
    permissions on your iMac!


    Views welcomed!

    --
    Kind regards,
    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David@21:1/5 to David on Wed Mar 12 12:40:14 2025
    On 12/03/2025 10:00, David wrote:
    On 12/03/2025 08:51, David wrote:

    https://eclecticlight.co/2025/03/12/why-all-this-privacy-protection-
    an- overview/

    //When you run an app, it naturally runs with your full user’s
    privileges, and has access to everything according to the permissions
    set on folders and files. Just as you want your privileges to give the
    Finder and your mail client access to all your emails and their
    enclosures, all other apps that you run enjoy those same privileges.
    But would you also want a third-party note-taking or photo-editing app
    to have that same level of access, even without your knowledge?
    Similarly, while you want FaceTime to have access to your Mac’s camera
    and microphone, would you be happy for any other app to access them
    without your being asked?//

    ChatGPT says ....

    Howard Oakley's article gives a solid rundown of how macOS has evolved
    its privacy protection — it’s no longer just about file permissions
    but about controlling app access to sensitive data and devices.
    Interesting to see how macOS 15 Sequoia now re-prompts users about
    screen recording permissions.

    The focus on consent (like giving apps access to your camera or mic)
    versus intent (like choosing to save a file in Documents) is a smart
    way to break down how Apple handles privacy. And that attribution
    chain concept — tracing what app requested access, especially for
    command-line tools — makes sense, though it must be a headache for
    devs trying to get everything right.

    =

    I asked - "Can you see how EtreCheck can get around all this protection?"

    =

    EtreCheck, like any other macOS app, can’t technically "get around"
    these privacy protections — but it can *request* the necessary
    permissions and use clever methods to gather system information. Let’s
    break down how it likely works:

    1. **Full Disk Access (FDA):**
        EtreCheck guides users to grant it **Full Disk Access** — a
    powerful permission that lets it bypass many of the privacy barriers
    protecting locations like `~/Documents`, `~/Downloads`, iCloud Drive,
    and Time Machine backups. Once FDA is enabled, EtreCheck can gather
    detailed information about your disk, logs, and system configuration
    without constant consent prompts.

    2. **Attribution Chain and Helper Tools:**
        EtreCheck may use helper tools or command-line utilities (like
    `kextstat`, `ps`, or `tccutil`) to gather data. These tools run under
    the main app’s permissions, so if the app has FDA, its subprocesses
    inherit those privileges through the attribution chain. This lets
    EtreCheck access data indirectly — like running shell commands to
    inspect running processes or kernel extensions.

    3. **Entitlements and Info.plist:**
        EtreCheck might include specific **entitlements** baked into its
    app signature, allowing it to request camera/microphone access or
    inspect protected folders. The Info.plist likely contains the required
    consent dialog text, so macOS knows what to show users when requesting
    permissions.

    4. **Terminal and Scripting:**
        If you manually run EtreCheck or any of its tools from Terminal
    (especially if Terminal has FDA), it gains even more power, as
    Terminal itself acts as the "parent app" in the attribution chain.

    5. **Transparency to Users:**
        EtreCheck emphasizes that it’s "safe" by highlighting its read-
    only nature and the lack of network access — but once you’ve granted
    it FDA, it can access vast amounts of data. It doesn’t technically
    "bypass" protections — it just uses the permissions you give it.

    Would you like to dig into how we can check what permissions EtreCheck
    has on your system, or perhaps run a `tccutil` command to reset them?
    Let me know how deep you want to go!

    =

    No, I'm not running EtreCheck on this iMac - I erased my hard drive to
    eradicate it. I don't trust a Developer who will not communicate with me!

    =

    ChatGPT said:

    That makes perfect sense — trust is key, especially when it comes to
    apps with deep system access like EtreCheck. Let me know if you want
    to dive into other ways to monitor or lock down system privacy and
    permissions on your iMac!


    Views welcomed!


    Not everyone seems to like Howard's efforts to help us!

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/256004656?sortBy=rank

    Your thoughts, please.

    --
    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David@21:1/5 to David on Wed Mar 12 20:52:19 2025
    On 12/03/2025 12:40, David wrote:
    On 12/03/2025 10:00, David wrote:
    On 12/03/2025 08:51, David wrote:

    https://eclecticlight.co/2025/03/12/why-all-this-privacy-protection-
    an- overview/

    //When you run an app, it naturally runs with your full user’s
    privileges, and has access to everything according to the permissions
    set on folders and files. Just as you want your privileges to give
    the Finder and your mail client access to all your emails and their
    enclosures, all other apps that you run enjoy those same privileges.
    But would you also want a third-party note-taking or photo-editing
    app to have that same level of access, even without your knowledge?
    Similarly, while you want FaceTime to have access to your Mac’s
    camera and microphone, would you be happy for any other app to access
    them without your being asked?//

    ChatGPT says ....

    Howard Oakley's article gives a solid rundown of how macOS has
    evolved its privacy protection — it’s no longer just about file
    permissions but about controlling app access to sensitive data and
    devices. Interesting to see how macOS 15 Sequoia now re-prompts users
    about screen recording permissions.

    The focus on consent (like giving apps access to your camera or mic)
    versus intent (like choosing to save a file in Documents) is a smart
    way to break down how Apple handles privacy. And that attribution
    chain concept — tracing what app requested access, especially for
    command-line tools — makes sense, though it must be a headache for
    devs trying to get everything right.

    =

    I asked - "Can you see how EtreCheck can get around all this
    protection?"

    =

    EtreCheck, like any other macOS app, can’t technically "get around"
    these privacy protections — but it can *request* the necessary
    permissions and use clever methods to gather system information.
    Let’s break down how it likely works:

    1. **Full Disk Access (FDA):**
        EtreCheck guides users to grant it **Full Disk Access** — a
    powerful permission that lets it bypass many of the privacy barriers
    protecting locations like `~/Documents`, `~/Downloads`, iCloud Drive,
    and Time Machine backups. Once FDA is enabled, EtreCheck can gather
    detailed information about your disk, logs, and system configuration
    without constant consent prompts.

    2. **Attribution Chain and Helper Tools:**
        EtreCheck may use helper tools or command-line utilities (like
    `kextstat`, `ps`, or `tccutil`) to gather data. These tools run under
    the main app’s permissions, so if the app has FDA, its subprocesses
    inherit those privileges through the attribution chain. This lets
    EtreCheck access data indirectly — like running shell commands to
    inspect running processes or kernel extensions.

    3. **Entitlements and Info.plist:**
        EtreCheck might include specific **entitlements** baked into its
    app signature, allowing it to request camera/microphone access or
    inspect protected folders. The Info.plist likely contains the
    required consent dialog text, so macOS knows what to show users when
    requesting permissions.

    4. **Terminal and Scripting:**
        If you manually run EtreCheck or any of its tools from Terminal
    (especially if Terminal has FDA), it gains even more power, as
    Terminal itself acts as the "parent app" in the attribution chain.

    5. **Transparency to Users:**
        EtreCheck emphasizes that it’s "safe" by highlighting its read- >>> only nature and the lack of network access — but once you’ve granted >>> it FDA, it can access vast amounts of data. It doesn’t technically
    "bypass" protections — it just uses the permissions you give it.

    Would you like to dig into how we can check what permissions
    EtreCheck has on your system, or perhaps run a `tccutil` command to
    reset them? Let me know how deep you want to go!

    =

    No, I'm not running EtreCheck on this iMac - I erased my hard drive
    to eradicate it. I don't trust a Developer who will not communicate
    with me!

    =

    ChatGPT said:

    That makes perfect sense — trust is key, especially when it comes to
    apps with deep system access like EtreCheck. Let me know if you want
    to dive into other ways to monitor or lock down system privacy and
    permissions on your iMac!


    Views welcomed!


    Not everyone seems to like Howard's efforts to help us!

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/256004656?sortBy=rank

    Your thoughts, please.

    Quite a number of posts now - NONE made by me!

    Any thoughts, folks?

    --
    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Hill@21:1/5 to David on Thu Mar 13 12:00:45 2025
    On 12 Mar 2025 at 20:52:19 GMT, "David" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12/03/2025 12:40, David wrote:
    On 12/03/2025 10:00, David wrote:
    On 12/03/2025 08:51, David wrote:

    https://eclecticlight.co/2025/03/12/why-all-this-privacy-protection-
    an- overview/

    //When you run an app, it naturally runs with your full user’s
    privileges, and has access to everything according to the permissions
    set on folders and files. Just as you want your privileges to give
    the Finder and your mail client access to all your emails and their
    enclosures, all other apps that you run enjoy those same privileges.
    But would you also want a third-party note-taking or photo-editing
    app to have that same level of access, even without your knowledge?
    Similarly, while you want FaceTime to have access to your Mac’s
    camera and microphone, would you be happy for any other app to access
    them without your being asked?//

    ChatGPT says ....

    Howard Oakley's article gives a solid rundown of how macOS has
    evolved its privacy protection — it’s no longer just about file
    permissions but about controlling app access to sensitive data and
    devices. Interesting to see how macOS 15 Sequoia now re-prompts users
    about screen recording permissions.

    The focus on consent (like giving apps access to your camera or mic)
    versus intent (like choosing to save a file in Documents) is a smart
    way to break down how Apple handles privacy. And that attribution
    chain concept — tracing what app requested access, especially for
    command-line tools — makes sense, though it must be a headache for
    devs trying to get everything right.

    =

    I asked - "Can you see how EtreCheck can get around all this
    protection?"

    =

    EtreCheck, like any other macOS app, can’t technically "get around"
    these privacy protections — but it can *request* the necessary
    permissions and use clever methods to gather system information.
    Let’s break down how it likely works:

    1. **Full Disk Access (FDA):**
    EtreCheck guides users to grant it **Full Disk Access** — a
    powerful permission that lets it bypass many of the privacy barriers
    protecting locations like `~/Documents`, `~/Downloads`, iCloud Drive,
    and Time Machine backups. Once FDA is enabled, EtreCheck can gather
    detailed information about your disk, logs, and system configuration
    without constant consent prompts.

    2. **Attribution Chain and Helper Tools:**
    EtreCheck may use helper tools or command-line utilities (like
    `kextstat`, `ps`, or `tccutil`) to gather data. These tools run under
    the main app’s permissions, so if the app has FDA, its subprocesses
    inherit those privileges through the attribution chain. This lets
    EtreCheck access data indirectly — like running shell commands to
    inspect running processes or kernel extensions.

    3. **Entitlements and Info.plist:**
    EtreCheck might include specific **entitlements** baked into its
    app signature, allowing it to request camera/microphone access or
    inspect protected folders. The Info.plist likely contains the
    required consent dialog text, so macOS knows what to show users when
    requesting permissions.

    4. **Terminal and Scripting:**
    If you manually run EtreCheck or any of its tools from Terminal
    (especially if Terminal has FDA), it gains even more power, as
    Terminal itself acts as the "parent app" in the attribution chain.

    5. **Transparency to Users:**
    EtreCheck emphasizes that it’s "safe" by highlighting its read-
    only nature and the lack of network access — but once you’ve granted >>>> it FDA, it can access vast amounts of data. It doesn’t technically
    "bypass" protections — it just uses the permissions you give it.

    Would you like to dig into how we can check what permissions
    EtreCheck has on your system, or perhaps run a `tccutil` command to
    reset them? Let me know how deep you want to go!

    =

    No, I'm not running EtreCheck on this iMac - I erased my hard drive
    to eradicate it. I don't trust a Developer who will not communicate
    with me!

    =

    ChatGPT said:

    That makes perfect sense — trust is key, especially when it comes to >>>> apps with deep system access like EtreCheck. Let me know if you want
    to dive into other ways to monitor or lock down system privacy and
    permissions on your iMac!


    Views welcomed!


    Not everyone seems to like Howard's efforts to help us!

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/256004656?sortBy=rank

    Your thoughts, please.

    Quite a number of posts now - NONE made by me!

    Any thoughts, folks?

    Yes - you can get paranoiac about privacy. I have bookmarked the article but prefer not to fiddle. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Old John.
    --
    An infinitely complex system can fail in an infinite number of ways.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David@21:1/5 to John Hill on Thu Mar 13 15:00:09 2025
    On 13/03/2025 12:00, John Hill wrote:
    [....]
    Yes - you can get paranoiac about privacy. I have bookmarked the article but prefer not to fiddle. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    I've never been worried about privacy. It is about *security* that I
    have my concerns.

    In case you've not looked, this is what John Daniel ('etresoft') has
    recently posted in that thread:-

    etresoft

    User level: Level 9
    53,112 points
    Mar 13, 2025 12:47 PM in response to g_wolfman

    What do any of us know really? The only thing that anyone knows for
    certain about this thread is that it is of great interest to a certain notorious cyberstalker. You might not know his name (he has dozens of
    aliases), but he certainly knows yours. Stalker claims that he isn't
    "kpavel", just his "real-life chum".

    Do we take Stalker at his word? Truth and lie are irrelevant to him.
    Statements are either effective stalking and harassment strategies or
    they are not. That's all that matters. Software update, social media influencers, older people - they are all just tools of harassment. You
    can only assist in his decade-long harassment campaign, or become a new
    target.

    ==

    The original thread starter, Pavel (Paul) is a Ukrainian who is employed
    by AgeUK. He visits Seachange here in Budleigh each Wednesday morning to provide free help and advice to the old folk in the surrounding area.
    I've known him for some months now. He was a solicitor in Kiev (Kyiv)
    but has come here with his wife and three children to escape the war.
    His brother is still there and fighting at the front-line for both of them.

    https://www.seachangedevon.org/

    --
    Any question, just ask.
    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David@21:1/5 to David on Thu Mar 13 15:23:55 2025
    On 13/03/2025 15:00, David wrote:
    On 13/03/2025 12:00, John Hill wrote:
    [....]
    Yes - you can get paranoiac about privacy. I have bookmarked the
    article but
    prefer not to fiddle. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/256004656?sortBy=rank

    I've never been worried about privacy. It is about *security* that I
    have my concerns.

    In case you've not looked, this is what John Daniel ('etresoft') has
    recently posted in that thread:-

    etresoft

    User level: Level 9
    53,112 points
    Mar 13, 2025 12:47 PM in response to g_wolfman

    What do any of us know really? The only thing that anyone knows for
    certain about this thread is that it is of great interest to a certain notorious cyberstalker. You might not know his name (he has dozens of aliases), but he certainly knows yours. Stalker claims that he isn't "kpavel", just his "real-life chum".

    Do we take Stalker at his word? Truth and lie are irrelevant to him. Statements are either effective stalking and harassment strategies or
    they are not. That's all that matters. Software update, social media influencers, older people - they are all just tools of harassment. You
    can only assist in his decade-long harassment campaign, or become a new target.

    ==

    The original thread starter, Pavel (Paul) is a Ukrainian who is employed
    by AgeUK. He visits Seachange here in Budleigh each Wednesday morning to provide free help and advice to the old folk in the surrounding area.
    I've known him for some months now. He was a solicitor in Kiev (Kyiv)
    but has come here with his wife and three children to escape the war.
    His brother is still there and fighting at the front-line for both of them.

    https://www.seachangedevon.org/

    To keep folk up-to-date!

    The truth *WILL* out!

    --
    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 19 14:15:27 2025
    On 12/03/2025 10:00, David now provides an update!

    https://eclecticlight.co/2025/03/19/what-happened-to-macos-in-last-weeks-updates/#like-85512

    Someone please tell John Daniel (etresoft> if he isn't already reading here!

    Thanks.

    --
    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)