I am trying to set up IP addresses so that I can FTP by Ethernet from my
G3 to my Mini.
In the Mini I have set DHCP with manual address to 192.168.1.104, which
does not clash with any of the other devices (which are nn.100,101,102
&103). In the G3 (running OS 8.6) I have put the same IP address into
Fetch. It also requires a username and password, I have tried the
Mini's Admin and my personal names and passwords, but the connection is always refused.
I have set the Desktop and Documents folders of the Mini to 'Everyone
Read and Write'. The Ethernet setup panel shows it is connected with
the correct IP address and it can get access to the Web through the
(wired) router. Other computers on the same Ethernet are connecting correctly.
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I am trying to set up IP addresses so that I can FTP by Ethernet from my
G3 to my Mini.
In the Mini I have set DHCP with manual address to 192.168.1.104, which does not clash with any of the other devices (which are nn.100,101,102 &103). In the G3 (running OS 8.6) I have put the same IP address into Fetch. It also requires a username and password, I have tried the
Mini's Admin and my personal names and passwords, but the connection is always refused.
Your terminology is confusing me.
If the mini uses DHCP then the router provides it with an IP address.
Some routers can be configured to issue a specific address linked to a
MAC address - this is usually called binding. So have you configured
your router to issue a static IP to the mini?
But you mentioned FTP. Why do you want to use FTP?
Does the FTP client on the G3 work correctly? You could test it against
a publicly available FTP server on the internet.
If the mini uses DHCP then the router provides it with an IP address.
Some routers can be configured to issue a specific address linked to a
MAC address - this is usually called binding. So have you configured
your router to issue a static IP to the mini?
I am trying to set up IP addresses so that I can FTP by Ethernet from my
G3 to my Mini.
In the Mini I have set DHCP with manual address to 192.168.1.104, which
does not clash with any of the other devices (which are nn.100,101,102
&103). In the G3 (running OS 8.6) I have put the same IP address into
Fetch. It also requires a username and password, I have tried the
Mini's Admin and my personal names and passwords, but the connection is always refused.
I have set the Desktpo and Documents folders of the Mini to 'Everyone
Read and Write'. The Ethernet setup panel shows it is connected with
the correct IP address and it can get access to the Web through the
(wired) router. Other computers on the same Ethernet are connecting correctly.
What have I done wrong?
I suspect the main reason the G3 can't connect is because you haven't
enabled FTP file sharing on the Mini. In System Settings, look under
Sharing and iirc FTP is one of the options there.
But you mentioned FTP. Why do you want to use FTP?
Because it is the only way of transferring files from OS8.6 to OSX. If someone sends me a URL by e-mail or on this group, I have to create a
text file of it and then FTP that to the Mini, which has an up-to-date browser. It is getting worse now that OSX can't recognise a Simple Text
file and tries to do something clever with it.
Graham J <[email protected]> wrote:
[...]
The router does have that ability but there is something odd going on:
The Mini seems to be connected to the router twice, once with the name "Admins-Mac-Mini" and once with the name "Lizs-Mini" (which is what I
changed it to in the Sharing preference). The first one in the DHCP
Clients List shows the same MAC address as the "About this computer"
info, the second one has a different MAC address and I can't see where
that has come from. The first one's IP is n.n.n.103, the second is
n.n.n.100 and the Mini's Preferences panel shows it is connected to
n.n.n.100
Using 'Refresh' on the list updates the "valid time" which is about 2
hours for the first one and abot 24 hours for the second - but it
doesn't remove either of them. Plugging and unplugging the Ethernet connection results in the same addresses being reloaded (Wireless is
off). Shutting down and restarting the Mini makes no difference.
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
[snip]
But you mentioned FTP. Why do you want to use FTP?
Because it is the only way of transferring files from OS8.6 to OSX. If someone sends me a URL by e-mail or on this group, I have to create a
text file of it and then FTP that to the Mini, which has an up-to-date browser. It is getting worse now that OSX can't recognise a Simple Text file and tries to do something clever with it.
I think we've covered this before, but surely there is an
Apple-proprietary file sharing mechanism that works between all flavours
of OS from OS7 to OSX.
On 11/05/2024 10:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I am trying to set up IP addresses so that I can FTP by Ethernet from my
G3 to my Mini.
In the Mini I have set DHCP with manual address to 192.168.1.104, which does not clash with any of the other devices (which are nn.100,101,102 &103). In the G3 (running OS 8.6) I have put the same IP address into Fetch. It also requires a username and password, I have tried the
Mini's Admin and my personal names and passwords, but the connection is always refused.
I have set the Desktpo and Documents folders of the Mini to 'Everyone
Read and Write'. The Ethernet setup panel shows it is connected with
the correct IP address and it can get access to the Web through the
(wired) router. Other computers on the same Ethernet are connecting correctly.
What have I done wrong?
Your terminology is a little wrong but I think it's understandable.
Essentially you have configured the Mini to have IP address
192.168.1.104. Whether you have done that by fixing the address in the
Mini (static IP) or configuring DHCP to always issue the same IP to the
Mini doesn't really matter.
I suspect the main reason the G3 can't connect is because you haven't
enabled FTP file sharing on the Mini. In System Settings, look under
Sharing and iirc FTP is one of the options there.
Bruce Horrocks <[email protected]> wrote:
On 11/05/2024 10:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I am trying to set up IP addresses so that I can FTP by Ethernet from my G3 to my Mini.
In the Mini I have set DHCP with manual address to 192.168.1.104, which does not clash with any of the other devices (which are nn.100,101,102 &103). In the G3 (running OS 8.6) I have put the same IP address into Fetch. It also requires a username and password, I have tried the
Mini's Admin and my personal names and passwords, but the connection is always refused.
I have set the Desktpo and Documents folders of the Mini to 'Everyone Read and Write'. The Ethernet setup panel shows it is connected with
the correct IP address and it can get access to the Web through the (wired) router. Other computers on the same Ethernet are connecting correctly.
What have I done wrong?
Your terminology is a little wrong but I think it's understandable.
Essentially you have configured the Mini to have IP address
192.168.1.104. Whether you have done that by fixing the address in the
Mini (static IP) or configuring DHCP to always issue the same IP to the Mini doesn't really matter.
I suspect the main reason the G3 can't connect is because you haven't enabled FTP file sharing on the Mini. In System Settings, look under Sharing and iirc FTP is one of the options there.
In System Preferences there is a section 'Sharing'.with the following:
Screen sharing
File sharing
Media sharing
Printer sharing
Remote Login
Remote Management
Remote Apple Events
Bluetooth Sharing
Internet Sharing
Content Caching
With Remote Login and Remote Management turned on, there was no
improvement, but after working my way through all the hoops, loops and warnings of Internet Sharing, I finally got Fetch to make a connection.
It timed-out without displaying any files and the address is still 192.168.1.100 ...but that's a start.
Bruce Horrocks wrote:
[snip]
I suspect the main reason the G3 can't connect is because you haven't enabled FTP file sharing on the Mini. In System Settings, look under Sharing and iirc FTP is one of the options there.
Which is what I suggested at the end of my reply at 10:56 this morning.
Can you ping both their IP addresses (n.n.n.103 and n.n.n.10) from all
the other machines on the LAN?
I haven't found out how to 'Ping' devices (don't think there was
anything that did that in OS8.6 and I have never properly explored OSX)
Liz Tuddenham <[email protected]d> wrote:
Bruce Horrocks <[email protected]> wrote:
On 11/05/2024 10:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I am trying to set up IP addresses so that I can FTP by Ethernet from my >>>> G3 to my Mini.
In the Mini I have set DHCP with manual address to 192.168.1.104, which >>>> does not clash with any of the other devices (which are nn.100,101,102 >>>> &103). In the G3 (running OS 8.6) I have put the same IP address into >>>> Fetch. It also requires a username and password, I have tried the
Mini's Admin and my personal names and passwords, but the connection is >>>> always refused.
I have set the Desktpo and Documents folders of the Mini to 'Everyone
Read and Write'. The Ethernet setup panel shows it is connected with
the correct IP address and it can get access to the Web through the
(wired) router. Other computers on the same Ethernet are connecting
correctly.
What have I done wrong?
Your terminology is a little wrong but I think it's understandable.
Essentially you have configured the Mini to have IP address
192.168.1.104. Whether you have done that by fixing the address in the
Mini (static IP) or configuring DHCP to always issue the same IP to the
Mini doesn't really matter.
I suspect the main reason the G3 can't connect is because you haven't
enabled FTP file sharing on the Mini. In System Settings, look under
Sharing and iirc FTP is one of the options there.
In System Preferences there is a section 'Sharing'.with the following:
Screen sharing
File sharing
Media sharing
Printer sharing
Remote Login
Remote Management
Remote Apple Events
Bluetooth Sharing
Internet Sharing
Content Caching
With Remote Login and Remote Management turned on, there was no
improvement, but after working my way through all the hoops, loops and
warnings of Internet Sharing, I finally got Fetch to make a connection.
It timed-out without displaying any files and the address is still
192.168.1.100 ...but that's a start.
I've now used the Manual DHCP and managed to get a connection on 192.168.1.104 ...but still no files appear in the Fetch window.
I've now used the Manual DHCP and managed to get a connection on 192.168.1.104 ...but still no files appear in the Fetch window.
I think we've covered this before, but surely there is an
Apple-proprietary file sharing mechanism that works between all flavours
of OS from OS7 to OSX.
If there is, I haven't found it. All the pre-OSX machines talk to each other, but FTP seems to be the only way of communicating between OS8.6
and OSX. I seem to remember that one 'packet' would be sent and nothing more.
In any case, they now don't have enough in common to be useful,
everything has to be communicated in text because they have no programs
in common.
Where do you see these two names? "Admins-Mac-Mini" and "Lizs-Mini"
Are they both shown in the DHCP clients list in the router?
They are in 'DHCP Server .> clients list'. "This page displays
information on all DHCP clients on the network"
Two things have happened since I last posted:
The first line of the table disappeared about 3 hours after I first saw
it, so it looks as though that line timed out at the end of 'valid
time'.
On 12/05/2024 08:43, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <[email protected]d> wrote:
Bruce Horrocks <[email protected]> wrote:
On 11/05/2024 10:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I am trying to set up IP addresses so that I can FTP by Ethernet from my >>>> G3 to my Mini.
In the Mini I have set DHCP with manual address to 192.168.1.104, which >>>> does not clash with any of the other devices (which are nn.100,101,102 >>>> &103). In the G3 (running OS 8.6) I have put the same IP address into >>>> Fetch. It also requires a username and password, I have tried the
Mini's Admin and my personal names and passwords, but the connection is >>>> always refused.
I have set the Desktpo and Documents folders of the Mini to 'Everyone >>>> Read and Write'. The Ethernet setup panel shows it is connected with >>>> the correct IP address and it can get access to the Web through the
(wired) router. Other computers on the same Ethernet are connecting >>>> correctly.
What have I done wrong?
Your terminology is a little wrong but I think it's understandable.
Essentially you have configured the Mini to have IP address
192.168.1.104. Whether you have done that by fixing the address in the >>> Mini (static IP) or configuring DHCP to always issue the same IP to the >>> Mini doesn't really matter.
I suspect the main reason the G3 can't connect is because you haven't
enabled FTP file sharing on the Mini. In System Settings, look under
Sharing and iirc FTP is one of the options there.
In System Preferences there is a section 'Sharing'.with the following:
Screen sharing
File sharing
Media sharing
Printer sharing
Remote Login
Remote Management
Remote Apple Events
Bluetooth Sharing
Internet Sharing
Content Caching
With Remote Login and Remote Management turned on, there was no
improvement, but after working my way through all the hoops, loops and
warnings of Internet Sharing, I finally got Fetch to make a connection.
It timed-out without displaying any files and the address is still
192.168.1.100 ...but that's a start.
I've now used the Manual DHCP and managed to get a connection on 192.168.1.104 ...but still no files appear in the Fetch window.
Internet Sharing is something else that you don't need at the moment.
Turn it off so as not to confuse things and go into File Sharing. There should be a "share files by FTP" type setting in there. (Or maybe 'FTP Server' but that's a bit too techie-phrasing for Apple).
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
[snip]
Where do you see these two names? "Admins-Mac-Mini" and "Lizs-Mini"
Are they both shown in the DHCP clients list in the router?
They are in 'DHCP Server .> clients list'. "This page displays
information on all DHCP clients on the network"
Two things have happened since I last posted:
The first line of the table disappeared about 3 hours after I first saw
it, so it looks as though that line timed out at the end of 'valid
time'.
[snip]
Fair comment. But the two different MAC addresses you mentioned are confusing. Does the machine "Lizs-Mini" have WiFi? Is it possible that
at some point in the past it was enabled?
Different routers remember things differently, sometimes even across
power off/on.
I suspect the only parameters your router needs are the connection
username and password for your ISP. If so, factory reset it, and
re-enter these two items, with only one computer connected to it
(obviously, to manage it). View its DHCP table and note the IP issued
to the connected device. Make the router remember it so it always
issues the same IP to that device.
Then connect all the other machines one-at-a-time binding their IP
addresses as you go.
Then test: power everything off. Wait a minute: power on the router -
wait until it shows it has an internet connection, then power on all the computers - simultaneously if you like. All should show they have the
IP addresses you bound in the router. Note that this might not work if
you power everything including the router back on at the same time,
because the router may take much longer to come to life than the
computers so the computers may fail to get a sensible IP address. Be
aware of this if you get mains power cuts.
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
[snip]
I've now used the Manual DHCP and managed to get a connection on
192.168.1.104 ...but still no files appear in the Fetch window.
You're still confused. Your Mac gets is IP ***either*** by DHCP or
manually. If you set the IP manually in the Mac you are not using DHCP.
Look in any network connection's TCP/IP settings, and you'll see there
are four choices for it:
Using DHCP
Using DHCP with manual address <== this'll be what Liz is using
Manually
Off
It's been like this in OS X for so long I cannot recall if it ever
wasn't.
Internet Sharing is something else that you don't need at the moment.
Turn it off so as not to confuse things and go into File Sharing. There
should be a "share files by FTP" type setting in there. (Or maybe 'FTP
Server' but that's a bit too techie-phrasing for Apple).
I have everything turned on in File Sharing, but I get "Connection
Refused" unless Internet Sharing is on. (This is with DHCP allowing
the router to choose its own address (which is invariably 192.168.1.100)
Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
[snip]
Look in any network connection's TCP/IP settings, and you'll see there
are four choices for it:
Using DHCP
Using DHCP with manual address <== this'll be what Liz is using> Manually
Off
It's been like this in OS X for so long I cannot recall if it ever
wasn't.
I don't have OSX here to refer to, but:
Jamie please explain - what is:
"DHCP with manual address"
To me that is a complete contradiction - it either gets its address from
the DHCP server, or it does not.
Confused ....
On 12 May 2024 at 12:58:59 PM BST, "Graham J" <[email protected]> wrote:
Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
[snip]
Look in any network connection's TCP/IP settings, and you'll see there
are four choices for it:
Using DHCP
Using DHCP with manual address <== this'll be what Liz is using> Manually >>> Off
It's been like this in OS X for so long I cannot recall if it ever
wasn't.
I don't have OSX here to refer to, but:
Jamie please explain - what is:
"DHCP with manual address"
To me that is a complete contradiction - it either gets its address from
the DHCP server, or it does not.
Confused ....
IIRC (and if I don't Jaimie will correct me), it's just a convenience: it saves you having to fill in the subnet mask (and maybe other options) but still allows a manually assigned address.
On 12 May 2024 at 14:30:55 BST, "TimH" <[email protected]d>
wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 12:58:59 PM BST, "Graham J" <[email protected]> wrote:
Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
[snip]
Look in any network connection's TCP/IP settings, and you'll see there >>>> are four choices for it:
Using DHCP
Using DHCP with manual address <== this'll be what Liz is using> Manually >>>> Off
It's been like this in OS X for so long I cannot recall if it ever
wasn't.
I don't have OSX here to refer to, but:
Jamie please explain - what is:
"DHCP with manual address"
To me that is a complete contradiction - it either gets its address from >>> the DHCP server, or it does not.
Confused ....
IIRC (and if I don't Jaimie will correct me), it's just a convenience: it
saves you having to fill in the subnet mask (and maybe other options) but
still allows a manually assigned address.
Yep, exactly. Everything comes from the DHCP server, but you can choose
your own IP.
It is a pretty odd thing, but it's been here for years.
It is theoretically possible that you could have a legitimate reason for using Internet Sharing (sometimes more meaningfully called Internet Connection Sharing) - developing a firewall product might be one such
reason.
But in your case YOU DO NOT NEED IT so disable it and get your network
to work properly before attempting any file sharing.
Please confirm that each of your computers has its own network cable connecting to a LAN port on your router.
"DHCP with manual address"
To me that is a complete contradiction - it either gets its address from >>> the DHCP server, or it does not.
Confused ....
IIRC (and if I don't Jaimie will correct me), it's just a convenience: it
saves you having to fill in the subnet mask (and maybe other options) but
still allows a manually assigned address.
Yep, exactly. Everything comes from the DHCP server, but you can choose
your own IP.
It is a pretty odd thing, but it's been here for years.
Cheers - Jaimie
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
I don't actually do that, here, but I probably should. Why? Because I debug Xojo stuff using Win-10 and Linux VMs, and a Pi. I ought really to assign fixed addresses for all those, in DHCP. Then allow DHCP to assign what it feels like to the printer, file server, and SWMBO and my Minis.
The reason to assign fixed addresses is because the Xojo IDE needs to know them in order to initiate remote debugging to the right device/VM. These change occasionally if I reboot a VM and that's then a nuisance.
I have now switched it off. The Ethernet was dropping out
intermittently when it was switched on.
Please confirm that each of your computers has its own network cable
connecting to a LAN port on your router.
The router is in the front bedroom next to the telephone drop wire termination and filter. One Ethernet port is connected directly to the MacBook. Another Ethernet port is connected by a single cable to a hub
in the 'office' (back bedroom) which feeds two printers, the G3 and the
Mini. That hub also feeds a cable to another hub in the 'studio'
(downstairs front room) where it connects to two more G3s and an iMac
(which is usually switched off). All the 'studio' machines were off
during the recent tests but that hub was still powered.
The 'office' G3 has been set up with manual TCP/IP at 192.168.1.200,
subnet 255.255.255.0 and router address 192.168.1.1, it handles e-mails
and Usenet, as well as all the office work and FTP to websites.
The MacBook has been set up with manual TCP/IP at 192.168.1.102, subnet 255.255.255.0 and router address 192.168.1.1; it also has a Wi-Fi
connection to the router enabled, so that takes over when the Ethernet
plug drops out and I don't happen to spot it.
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or
AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so let's
go for SMB.
1) Enable SMB File Sharing on the Mini.
2) On the G3 choose Finder -> Connect to server and choose Browse (if
that dialogue hasn't changed)
There will then be some prompts for username and password and fingers
crossed you can access the Mini from the G3 just by dragging and
dropping files into the Finder window.
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
[snip]
I have now switched it off. The Ethernet was dropping out
intermittently when it was switched on.
Good. I can't begin to imagine what chaos it was causing!
Please confirm that each of your computers has its own network cable
connecting to a LAN port on your router.
The router is in the front bedroom next to the telephone drop wire termination and filter. One Ethernet port is connected directly to the MacBook. Another Ethernet port is connected by a single cable to a hub
in the 'office' (back bedroom) which feeds two printers, the G3 and the Mini. That hub also feeds a cable to another hub in the 'studio' (downstairs front room) where it connects to two more G3s and an iMac (which is usually switched off). All the 'studio' machines were off
during the recent tests but that hub was still powered.
By "hub" do you really mean "Network Switch" or "Network Repeater"?
[...] The
Macbook may well have two different IP addresses (one for wired, the
other for WiFi) which will make debugging difficult, and could well
impact performance.
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
Do the Macbook and Mini have the same version of Operating System?
SMB is used for sharing with MS Windows devices.
AFP is Apple File Sharing, and I think was present all the way back to
OS8. If you enable it on all your devices it might get file sharing to
work ...
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is
missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or
AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so let's
go for SMB.
By "hub" do you really mean "Network Switch" or "Network Repeater"?
A powered box with a lot of Ethernet cables plugged into it so that they
can talk to each other. It doesn't do anything else.
[...] The
Macbook may well have two different IP addresses (one for wired, the
other for WiFi) which will make debugging difficult, and could well
impact performance.
It does have two different IP addresses, which means I can choose
between them when FTPing from the office G3. The reason is that the connection to the Wi-Fi aerial in the MacBook is not reliable, so
Ethernet is preferred ...when the plug will stay in.
My experience of doing public address work has taught me that locking
plugs are a menace: When anyone trips over the cable, they will either
rip the cable out of the plug or pull valuable equipment onto the floor. Tying the cable to something solid to prevent the plug being pulled will
most likely result in someone falling over. It is much easier to put a
plug back into a socket than it is to put a cable back into a plug or
deal with a lawsuit for injury..
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
[snip]
By "hub" do you really mean "Network Switch" or "Network Repeater"?
A powered box with a lot of Ethernet cables plugged into it so that they can talk to each other. It doesn't do anything else.
Make and model number?
On 12 May 2024 at 18:02:29 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is
missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or
AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so let's
go for SMB.
But did any version of classic macOS support SMB?
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 18:02:29 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is >>>> missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh. >>>
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or
AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so let's
go for SMB.
But did any version of classic macOS support SMB?
I have never heard of it in OS 8.6
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 18:02:29 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is >>>> missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh. >>>
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or
AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so let's
go for SMB.
But did any version of classic macOS support SMB?
I have never heard of it in OS 8.6
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or
AFP.
On 12 May 2024 at 20:30:27 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 18:02:29 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <[email protected]> >>wrote:
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is >>>> missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or
AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so let's >>> go for SMB.
But did any version of classic macOS support SMB?
I have never heard of it in OS 8.6
Does this need to be FTP, or would any mechanism to transfer files be satisfactory?
On 12 May 2024 at 20:30:27 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 18:02:29 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <[email protected]> >>wrote:
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is >>>> missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or
AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so let's >>> go for SMB.
But did any version of classic macOS support SMB?
I have never heard of it in OS 8.6
So one end can do SMB but no longer AFP, the other can do AFP and not SMB.
If I'm not mistaken, for FTP you'd need a server at one end and an FTP client at the other.
On 12 May 2024 at 21:06:40 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 20:30:27 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 18:02:29 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes: >>>>>> SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option >>>>>> is missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd >>>>>forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB >>>>> or AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so >>>>> let's go for SMB.
But did any version of classic macOS support SMB?
I have never heard of it in OS 8.6
So one end can do SMB but no longer AFP, the other can do AFP and not >>SMB.
If I'm not mistaken, for FTP you'd need a server at one end and an FTP
client at the other.
Those are the lines I am thinking along, install FTP server software in the Mini?
If you don't need actual FTP, you could use an email client on each machine. Add the files to be transferred, as attachments, to an email. Then email from one machine to the other via whichever email system you use. Crude but perhaps
workable. If you don't want to use your internet bandwidth for that, then I can offer a simple as-close-as-possible-to-zero-configuration POP3/SMTP server
which could run on your Mini and the email clients can use that instead of your offsite mail host. I wrote this server so that SWMBO and I can send each other mails via the LAN at home. May sound silly, but we often get mails that the other needs too.
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 20:30:27 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 18:02:29 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is >>>>>> missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or >>>>> AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so let's >>>>> go for SMB.
But did any version of classic macOS support SMB?
I have never heard of it in OS 8.6
So one end can do SMB but no longer AFP, the other can do AFP and not SMB. >>
If I'm not mistaken, for FTP you'd need a server at one end and an FTP client
at the other.
Those are the lines I am thinking along, install FTP server software in the Mini?
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 21:06:40 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 20:30:27 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote: >>>>
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 18:02:29 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote:
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes: >>>>>>>> SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option >>>>>>>> is missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd
forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB >>>>>>> or AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so >>>>>>> let's go for SMB.
But did any version of classic macOS support SMB?
I have never heard of it in OS 8.6
So one end can do SMB but no longer AFP, the other can do AFP and not
SMB.
If I'm not mistaken, for FTP you'd need a server at one end and an FTP >>>> client at the other.
Those are the lines I am thinking along, install FTP server software in the >>> Mini?
If you don't need actual FTP, you could use an email client on each machine. >> Add the files to be transferred, as attachments, to an email. Then email from
one machine to the other via whichever email system you use. Crude but perhaps
workable. If you don't want to use your internet bandwidth for that, then I >> can offer a simple as-close-as-possible-to-zero-configuration POP3/SMTP server
which could run on your Mini and the email clients can use that instead of >> your offsite mail host. I wrote this server so that SWMBO and I can send each
other mails via the LAN at home. May sound silly, but we often get mails that
the other needs too.
That sounds like a really useful (and novel) possibility. A lot of the transfers originate from e-mails or are just text, which could go in the
body of the e-mail; only pictures would need to be sent as attachments.
It certsinly beats a USB memory stick as a transfer medium.
I would like to give it a try, even if the FTP problem is eventually
solved.
Fine. Go to:
https://www.iletter.org.uk
Downloads are free of charge - this is all freeware. The app in question is called iServer (OK, not very original :-) There are versions for macOS (intel and ARM), Linux (intel, and ARM for the Pi), and Win-10.
The .dmg you would be downloading also has a User Guide.
On the <....downloads-iserver-1.php> page I filled in my correct e-mail address (the one that is shown slightly munged in the header of this
post), but when I click the "Vaidate download request" button it says my e-mail address isn't a valid one.
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
[snip]
On the <....downloads-iserver-1.php> page I filled in my correct e-mail
address (the one that is shown slightly munged in the header of this
post), but when I click the "Vaidate download request" button it says my
e-mail address isn't a valid one.
I've known other websites - even quite well-known shopping sites - fail
in much the same way. Too many / too few characters in the email
address, or it contains numbers. I have several different email
addresses, and use a mail server where I can create more addresses as
needed, so I've always been able to work around it.
Having said that, it may be checking the DNS records and has noted your
lack of an MX record - which of course does not actually prevent emails
from reaching you, but could be interpreted as a malicious setup.
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
[...]
Fine. Go to:
https://www.iletter.org.uk
Downloads are free of charge - this is all freeware. The app in question is >> called iServer (OK, not very original :-) There are versions for macOS (intel
and ARM), Linux (intel, and ARM for the Pi), and Win-10.
The .dmg you would be downloading also has a User Guide.
On the <....downloads-iserver-1.php> page I filled in my correct e-mail address (the one that is shown slightly munged in the header of this
post), but when I click the "Vaidate download request" button it says my e-mail address isn't a valid one.
Having said that, it may be checking the DNS records and has noted your
lack of an MX record - which of course does not actually prevent emails
from reaching you, but could be interpreted as a malicious setup.
Well spotted - I was just starting to look into it now. Indeed I do some checks on the proffered email address using PHP's getmxrr method. First time I've had this fail thus - but then I suppose I'd never know, as I don't log the failures, only the successes. I'm just after preventing the [email protected] style of email address.
On 12 May 2024 at 22:15:38 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
[...]
Fine. Go to:
https://www.iletter.org.uk
Downloads are free of charge - this is all freeware. The app in
question is called iServer (OK, not very original :-) There are
versions for macOS (intel and ARM), Linux (intel, and ARM for the Pi),
and Win-10.
The .dmg you would be downloading also has a User Guide.
On the <....downloads-iserver-1.php> page I filled in my correct e-mail address (the one that is shown slightly munged in the header of this
post), but when I click the "Vaidate download request" button it says my e-mail address isn't a valid one.
OK - I've disabled that check for now, Liz, so give it another go.
On 13 May 2024 at 10:58:57 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:[...]
I'm now working on the setup - you can expect queries as I am the tester from Hell.
It soundeth good to me :-)
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 22:15:38 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
[...]
Fine. Go to:
https://www.iletter.org.uk
Downloads are free of charge - this is all freeware. The app in
question is called iServer (OK, not very original :-) There are
versions for macOS (intel and ARM), Linux (intel, and ARM for the Pi), >>>> and Win-10.
The .dmg you would be downloading also has a User Guide.
On the <....downloads-iserver-1.php> page I filled in my correct e-mail
address (the one that is shown slightly munged in the header of this
post), but when I click the "Vaidate download request" button it says my >>> e-mail address isn't a valid one.
OK - I've disabled that check for now, Liz, so give it another go.
In the meantime I have used another address and that logged in OK
I'm now working on the setup - you can expect queries as I am the tester
from Hell.
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 13 May 2024 at 10:58:57 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:[...]
I'm now working on the setup - you can expect queries as I am the tester >>> from Hell.
It soundeth good to me :-)
First query on its way.
My app, iServer, uses ports 9091 to listen for POP3 requests, and 9092 for SMTP requests, by default. These are users settable. However, when Liz sets this up and runs the app on her Mini (Catalina) and then configures an email client (also on her Mini) to contact iServer using those port numbers (instead
of the usual 25 etc), the email client errors with network error 22, which means "Invalid argument", apparently. Both Liz and I use the local IP address directly in the email client (such as 192.168.1.7).
Duplicating that setup here, also on a Mini, albeit under Sonoma, gives expected behaviour rather than an error.
Anything wrong with those port numbers? Anyone got any skinny on error 22 that
might be useful?
TimS wrote:
[nip]
My app, iServer, uses ports 9091 to listen for POP3 requests, and 9092
for SMTP requests, by default. These are users settable. However, when
Liz sets this up and runs the app on her Mini (Catalina) and then configures an email client (also on her Mini) to contact iServer using those port numbers (instead of the usual 25 etc), the email client
errors with network error 22, which means "Invalid argument",
apparently. Both Liz and I use the local IP address directly in the
email client (such as 192.168.1.7).
Duplicating that setup here, also on a Mini, albeit under Sonoma, gives expected behaviour rather than an error.
Anything wrong with those port numbers? Anyone got any skinny on error
22 that might be useful?
You might find 127.0.0.1 called localhost is what Liz needs.
Alternatively, Liz's system is so old that a 4-digit port number may be illegal. Try configuring your iServer for POP port 110 and SMTP port 25.
Graham J <[email protected]> wrote:
You might find 127.0.0.1 called localhost is what Liz needs.
Alternatively, Liz's system is so old that a 4-digit port number may be
illegal. Try configuring your iServer for POP port 110 and SMTP port 25.
This is running on Catalina in the 'new' part of the system.
TimS wrote:
[nip]
You might find 127.0.0.1 called localhost is what Liz needs.
My app, iServer, uses ports 9091 to listen for POP3 requests, and 9092 for >> SMTP requests, by default. These are users settable. However, when Liz sets >> this up and runs the app on her Mini (Catalina) and then configures an email >> client (also on her Mini) to contact iServer using those port numbers (instead
of the usual 25 etc), the email client errors with network error 22, which >> means "Invalid argument", apparently. Both Liz and I use the local IP address
directly in the email client (such as 192.168.1.7).
Duplicating that setup here, also on a Mini, albeit under Sonoma, gives
expected behaviour rather than an error.
Anything wrong with those port numbers? Anyone got any skinny on error 22 that
might be useful?
Alternatively, Liz's system is so old that a 4-digit port number may be illegal. Try configuring your iServer for POP port 110 and SMTP port 25.
TimS wrote:
[nip]
You might find 127.0.0.1 called localhost is what Liz needs.
My app, iServer, uses ports 9091 to listen for POP3 requests, and 9092 for >> SMTP requests, by default. These are users settable. However, when Liz sets >> this up and runs the app on her Mini (Catalina) and then configures an email >> client (also on her Mini) to contact iServer using those port numbers (instead
of the usual 25 etc), the email client errors with network error 22, which >> means "Invalid argument", apparently. Both Liz and I use the local IP address
directly in the email client (such as 192.168.1.7).
Duplicating that setup here, also on a Mini, albeit under Sonoma, gives
expected behaviour rather than an error.
Anything wrong with those port numbers? Anyone got any skinny on error 22 that
might be useful?
Alternatively, Liz's system is so old that a 4-digit port number may be illegal. Try configuring your iServer for POP port 110 and SMTP port 25.
Also try running the client on a different machine on the LAN - that
might tell you whether it is the IP address or the port number which is
in error.
Does your iServer write a log file? You could compile a new version
that does - so you could see why iServer rejects the argument.
TimS wrote:
[nip]
My app, iServer, uses ports 9091 to listen for POP3 requests, and 9092 for >> SMTP requests, by default. These are users settable. However, when Liz sets >> this up and runs the app on her Mini (Catalina) and then configures an email >> client (also on her Mini) to contact iServer using those port numbers (insteadYou might find 127.0.0.1 called localhost is what Liz needs.
of the usual 25 etc), the email client errors with network error 22, which >> means "Invalid argument", apparently. Both Liz and I use the local IP address
directly in the email client (such as 192.168.1.7).
Duplicating that setup here, also on a Mini, albeit under Sonoma, gives
expected behaviour rather than an error.
Anything wrong with those port numbers? Anyone got any skinny on error 22 that
might be useful?
Alternatively, Liz's system is so old that a 4-digit port number may be illegal. Try configuring your iServer for POP port 110 and SMTP port 25.
On 13.05.24 16:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Graham J <[email protected]> wrote:
You might find 127.0.0.1 called localhost is what Liz needs.
Alternatively, Liz's system is so old that a 4-digit port number may be
illegal. Try configuring your iServer for POP port 110 and SMTP port 25.
This is running on Catalina in the 'new' part of the system.
10.15.7 alias Catalina is not supported any more since July 2022.
You might find 127.0.0.1 called localhost is what Liz needs.
=?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?= <[email protected]> wrote:
On 13.05.24 16:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Graham J <[email protected]> wrote:
You might find 127.0.0.1 called localhost is what Liz needs.This is running on Catalina in the 'new' part of the system.
Alternatively, Liz's system is so old that a 4-digit port number may be >>>> illegal. Try configuring your iServer for POP port 110 and SMTP port 25. >>>
10.15.7 alias Catalina is not supported any more since July 2022.
That's why I put 'new' in inverted commas. It isn't the latest system
but it is a lot newer than OS8.6, which is the old part of my system
that Graham was referring to.
On 13 May 2024 at 11:57:19 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 13 May 2024 at 10:58:57 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:[...]
I'm now working on the setup - you can expect queries as I am the tester >>> from Hell.
It soundeth good to me :-)
First query on its way.
My app, iServer, uses ports 9091 to listen for POP3 requests, and 9092 for SMTP requests, by default. These are users settable. However, when Liz
sets this up and runs the app on her Mini (Catalina) and then configures
an email client (also on her Mini) to contact iServer using those port numbers (instead of the usual 25 etc), the email client errors with
network error 22, which means "Invalid argument", apparently. Both Liz
and I use the local IP address directly in the email client (such as 192.168.1.7).
Duplicating that setup here, also on a Mini, albeit under Sonoma, gives expected behaviour rather than an error.
Anything wrong with those port numbers? Anyone got any skinny on error 22 that might be useful?
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 13 May 2024 at 11:57:19 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 13 May 2024 at 10:58:57 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:[...]
I'm now working on the setup - you can expect queries as I am the tester >>>>> from Hell.
It soundeth good to me :-)
First query on its way.
My app, iServer, uses ports 9091 to listen for POP3 requests, and 9092 for >> SMTP requests, by default. These are users settable. However, when Liz
sets this up and runs the app on her Mini (Catalina) and then configures
an email client (also on her Mini) to contact iServer using those port
numbers (instead of the usual 25 etc), the email client errors with
network error 22, which means "Invalid argument", apparently. Both Liz
and I use the local IP address directly in the email client (such as
192.168.1.7).
Duplicating that setup here, also on a Mini, albeit under Sonoma, gives
expected behaviour rather than an error.
Anything wrong with those port numbers? Anyone got any skinny on error 22 >> that might be useful?
EINVAL is a fairly generic error so doesn't leave much to go on, but
suggests something is wrong with the socket code, probably on the client
end. There's nothing wrong with 9091 and 9092 - they are both above 1024 below which you need root privileges to listen.
You could try talking to it via 'nc' in terminal:
% nc -v smtp.gmail.com 25
Connection to smtp.gmail.com port 25 [tcp/smtp] succeeded!
220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP ffacd0b85a97d-3502b896a1dsm11709103f8f.32 - gsmtp HELO world
250 smtp.gmail.com at your service
QUIT
221 2.0.0 closing connection ffacd0b85a97d-3502b896a1dsm11709103f8f.32 - gsmtp
(the commands in caps I typed)
and similarly:
% nc -v pop3.plus.net 110
Connection to pop3.plus.net port 110 [tcp/pop3] succeeded!
+OK POP3 perditon ready on mail.plus.net 00029b7c
USER nonexistent
+OK USER nonexistent set, mate
PASS secret
-ERR Login failed.
STAT
-ERR Mate, the command must be one of CAPA, USER, PASS or QUIT
QUIT
+OK QUIT
(that POP3 server is rather... matey)
so you would type in Terminal:
nc -v 127.0.0.1 9091
and you should get something out of the SMTP side, and 9092 for the POP3 side.
I'll keep chasing error code 22.
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 20:30:27 BST, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:
TimS <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12 May 2024 at 18:02:29 BST, "Bruce Horrocks" <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:
On 12/05/2024 17:10, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
======= GOT IT!!! =======
In the MacBook, the File Sharing > Options panel has three boxes:
SMB, FTP and AFP, in the Mini there are only two ...the FTP option is >>>>>> missing.
Is it elsewhere or have they just left it out altogether?
So, Googling, it seems Apple dropped FTP a while back - I'd forgotten tbh.
Your options would seem to be to turn on file sharing - either SMB or >>>>> AFP. AFP is the native Apple one but it too got dropped later so let's >>>>> go for SMB.
But did any version of classic macOS support SMB?
I have never heard of it in OS 8.6
So one end can do SMB but no longer AFP, the other can do AFP and not SMB. >>
If I'm not mistaken, for FTP you'd need a server at one end and an FTP client
at the other.
Those are the lines I am thinking along, install FTP server software in
the Mini?
It transpires that error 22 means that the remote server is not running (at least in this context).
TimS wrote:
[snip]
It transpires that error 22 means that the remote server is not running (at least in this context).
So in Liz's context, where client and server are running on the same
machine this is clearly stupid. Perhaps the Mac does not allow
multitasking?
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 715 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 156:06:39 |
| Calls: | 12,092 |
| Files: | 15,000 |
| Messages: | 6,517,729 |