XPost: uk.d-i-y

As part of my backup I am trying to copy a 30 GB iso image from one 4 TB
SSD to a second 4 TB SSD.

Both are GPT, source is ex FAT, destination is NTFS. It has brought the computer to its knees in that Task Manager shows no CPU usage and minimal memory usage. Can't start any programs, seems frozen.

The new 4 TB SSD (destination) is Crucial BX replacing the Orico that
seemed defective.

I am beginning to think something else is at work here, both SSDs are
connected to:

StarTech.com 8 Port SATA PCIe Card - PCI Express 6Gbps SATA Expansion
Adapter Card with 4 Host Controllers - SATA PCIe Controller Card - PCI-e
x4 Gen 2 to SATA III - SATA HDD/SSD (8P6G-PCIE-SATA-CARD)

I've put that in full as I don't know what might be relevant, they are
both plugged into connector 2 on the card so that may be
overwhelmed/defective.

PC is a home built based on an Asus Z170P board with an Intel i7 and 16 GB
RAM.

Never had an issue like this before so any suggestions welcome!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists
or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

In uk.d-i-y Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

As part of my backup I am trying to copy a 30 GB iso image from one 4 TB
SSD to a second 4 TB SSD.

Both are GPT, source is ex FAT, destination is NTFS. It has brought the computer to its knees in that Task Manager shows no CPU usage and minimal memory usage. Can't start any programs, seems frozen.

The new 4 TB SSD (destination) is Crucial BX replacing the Orico that
seemed defective.

I am beginning to think something else is at work here, both SSDs are connected to:

StarTech.com 8 Port SATA PCIe Card - PCI Express 6Gbps SATA Expansion
Adapter Card with 4 Host Controllers - SATA PCIe Controller Card - PCI-e
x4 Gen 2 to SATA III - SATA HDD/SSD (8P6G-PCIE-SATA-CARD)

I've put that in full as I don't know what might be relevant, they are
both plugged into connector 2 on the card so that may be overwhelmed/defective.

PC is a home built based on an Asus Z170P board with an Intel i7 and 16 GB RAM.

Never had an issue like this before so any suggestions welcome!

Bad SATA cable? If the cable is very bad it may 'work', but spend 99% of
time sending retries for corrupted packets.

Interestingly, the two reviews on the Startech website are both of failing
to talk to drives: https://www.startech.com/en-gb/cards-adapters/8p6g-pcie-sata-card

This one in particular:

"From my own experience, at full load of ZFS pool using this card the hard drives will randomly fail after some time. If you use SSDs, they will fail even faster. From what I hear in the Unraid/ZFS community this card suffers from interrupt overflow specifically with software raid systems.

Setting the PCI-E port to 1.0 standard helps a bit, but it will fail if you load it too much. Overall, unsatisfactory level of engineering for a card
that costs almost as much as an LSI solution."


The card appears to have two ASM1061 SATA controllers behind a Pericom PCIe switch, which is a slightly unusual configuration (somewhat cheaped-out compared with a proper HBA).

Can you swap one of these drives to a motherboard port and try it there?

Theo

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

On 29/01/2025 in message <OCn*[email protected]> Theo wrote:

Never had an issue like this before so any suggestions welcome!

Bad SATA cable? If the cable is very bad it may 'work', but spend 99% of >time sending retries for corrupted packets.

Interestingly, the two reviews on the Startech website are both of failing
to talk to drives: >https://www.startech.com/en-gb/cards-adapters/8p6g-pcie-sata-card

This one in particular:

"From my own experience, at full load of ZFS pool using this card the hard >drives will randomly fail after some time. If you use SSDs, they will fail >even faster. From what I hear in the Unraid/ZFS community this card
suffers
from interrupt overflow specifically with software raid systems.

Setting the PCI-E port to 1.0 standard helps a bit, but it will fail if you >load it too much. Overall, unsatisfactory level of engineering for a card >that costs almost as much as an LSI solution."

The card appears to have two ASM1061 SATA controllers behind a Pericom PCIe >switch, which is a slightly unusual configuration (somewhat cheaped-out >compared with a proper HBA).

Can you swap one of these drives to a motherboard port and try it there?

Many thanks Theo :-)

I am still in the return window with Amazon so I will try your suggestion
to try and pin it down.

I didn't find the poor reviews when I was researching although it was
suggested I should go LSI. I have an older LSI card but when I tried it it seemed to reset the BIOS and it was a pain to get the PC booting again.

OK, got my job for today!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I take full responsibility for what happened - that is why the person that
was responsible went immediately.
(Gordon Brown, April 2009)

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

On 29/01/2025 22:04, Jeff Gaines wrote:

As part of my backup I am trying to copy a 30 GB iso image from one 4 TB
SSD to a second 4 TB SSD.

Both are GPT, source is ex FAT, destination is NTFS. It has brought the computer to its knees in that Task Manager shows no CPU usage and
minimal memory usage. Can't start any programs, seems frozen.

The new 4 TB SSD (destination) is Crucial BX replacing the Orico that
seemed defective.

I am beginning to think something else is at work here, both SSDs are connected to:

StarTech.com 8 Port SATA PCIe Card - PCI Express 6Gbps SATA Expansion
Adapter Card with 4 Host Controllers - SATA PCIe Controller Card - PCI-e
x4 Gen 2 to SATA III - SATA HDD/SSD (8P6G-PCIE-SATA-CARD)

I've put that in full as I don't know what might be relevant, they are
both plugged into connector 2 on the card so that may be overwhelmed/defective.

PC is a home built based on an Asus Z170P board with an Intel i7 and 16
GB RAM.

Never had an issue like this before so any suggestions welcome!

Well one approach might be to boot the computer with a live linux
distribution, to remove any software issues.

30GB will take a while and beacuse its using lots of IO will shag the
rest of the systems IO..
--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

On 30/01/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

The card appears to have two ASM1061 SATA controllers behind a Pericom
PCIe
switch, which is a slightly unusual configuration (somewhat cheaped-out >>compared with a proper HBA).

Can you swap one of these drives to a motherboard port and try it there?

Many thanks Theo :-)

I am still in the return window with Amazon so I will try your suggestion
to try and pin it down.

I didn't find the poor reviews when I was researching although it was >suggested I should go LSI. I have an older LSI card but when I tried it it >seemed to reset the BIOS and it was a pain to get the PC booting again.

OK, got my job for today!

You seem to have performed the Oracle again Theo, connected the 2 x 4 TB
SSD directly to the board and copied sweet as a nut! Thank you for helping
me get my thinking straight :-)

The LSI options seem to be:

LSI SAS 9207-8i KIT 8-Port 6Gbps SATA+SAS PCI-E 3.0 HBA Kit

LSI LSI00301 (9207-8i) PCI-Express 3.0 x8 SATA / SAS Host Controller Card

The first comes with cables for �150, the second without cables for �100.
Mini SATA cables are available for �8.99. It seems sensible to buy them separately or is that a false economy?

Anyway I'll start the return process why I try and find reviews and
prices...

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Most people have heard of Karl Marx the philosopher but few know of his
sister Onya the Olympic runner.
Her name is still mentioned at the start of every race.

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

In uk.d-i-y Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

The LSI options seem to be:

LSI SAS 9207-8i KIT 8-Port 6Gbps SATA+SAS PCI-E 3.0 HBA Kit

LSI LSI00301 (9207-8i) PCI-Express 3.0 x8 SATA / SAS Host Controller Card

The first comes with cables for £150, the second without cables for £100. Mini SATA cables are available for £8.99. It seems sensible to buy them separately or is that a false economy?

I'd buy used - £30-40 on ebay ('lsi sas' was my search). Assuming you get
the right connectors, no reason not to buy the cables separately.

(Not familiar with all the models though. On Linux things 'just work' but you'd need to check the Windows driver situation)

Theo

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

On 30/01/2025 in message <PCn*[email protected]> Theo wrote:

In uk.d-i-y Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

The LSI options seem to be:

LSI SAS 9207-8i KIT 8-Port 6Gbps SATA+SAS PCI-E 3.0 HBA Kit

LSI LSI00301 (9207-8i) PCI-Express 3.0 x8 SATA / SAS Host Controller Card

The first comes with cables for £150, the second without cables for
£100.
Mini SATA cables are available for £8.99. It seems sensible to buy them >>separately or is that a false economy?

I'd buy used - £30-40 on ebay ('lsi sas' was my search). Assuming you get >the right connectors, no reason not to buy the cables separately.

(Not familiar with all the models though. On Linux things 'just work' but >you'd need to check the Windows driver situation)

Theo

I went for the kit so I got the cables, glad as they don't have clips on
the SATA end, I ruined a really nice Lian Li case because I can never get
those things undone.

I thought I'd got a DOA but after Googling it was clear that booting is unbelievably sloooow, by the time I found that I had already moved it
between slots on the PC! That may have been why I wasn't happy with the
older version I had, I haven't had to wait for anything on a computer for
more than ten years (I am the weakest link).

One drive not recognised, a 2 TB WD again. I tried it in a couple of slots
but it seems to be the drive as the slot works with a different drive. It
does work if I attach it using USB and chkdsk says its fine. I think I
will strip it off and put it in as a bare drive to see if I can get it recognised then I'll set it up with Partition Wizard. After the issues and crashes I had with the Star Tech kit I guess I shouldn't be too surprised
at a screwed up drive?

Onwards and upwards...

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
That's an amazing invention but who would ever want to use one of them? (President Hayes speaking to Alexander Graham Bell on the invention of the telephone)

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

On 31/01/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

One drive not recognised, a 2 TB WD again. I tried it in a couple of slots >but it seems to be the drive as the slot works with a different drive. It >does work if I attach it using USB and chkdsk says its fine. I think I
will strip it off and put it in as a bare drive to see if I can get it >recognised then I'll set it up with Partition Wizard. After the issues and >crashes I had with the Star Tech kit I guess I shouldn't be too surprised
at a screwed up drive?

That worked as far as it went. Mini Tool Partition Wizard said it was a
"bad drive" and Windows Disk Management just says I/O error. I'll check
the warranty status tomorrow, at least the local post office know how to
send things to the Czech Republic now after the last one!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

On Fri, 1/31/2025 11:22 AM, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 31/01/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff Gaines wrote:

One drive not recognised, a 2 TB WD again. I tried it in a couple of slots but it seems to be the drive as the slot works with a different drive. It does work if I attach it using USB and chkdsk says its fine. I think I will strip it off and put it in

as a bare drive to see if I can get it recognised then I'll set it up with Partition Wizard. After the issues and crashes I had with the Star Tech kit I guess I shouldn't be too surprised at a screwed up drive?

That worked as far as it went. Mini Tool Partition Wizard said it was a "bad drive" and Windows Disk Management just says I/O error. I'll check the warranty status tomorrow, at least the local post office know how to send things to the Czech Republic

now after the last one!


You could look for a card with a Marvell 88SE1475 in it. x8 connector (fit in x16 slot).

https://www.qnap.com/en/product/qxp-1600es/specs/hardware

There is an Areca that may be using one, but it cost around 400.

And yes, it does need that heatsink on it. For once, the heatsink
isn't just to cover up the chip number :-)

If the card you select has the SFF connector on it, you'll need a cable
kit to go with it (1-to-4 cable, 4 cables on a 16 port card).

Paul

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

On 31/01/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

On 31/01/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

One drive not recognised, a 2 TB WD again. I tried it in a couple of slots >>but it seems to be the drive as the slot works with a different drive. It >>does work if I attach it using USB and chkdsk says its fine. I think I
will strip it off and put it in as a bare drive to see if I can get it >>recognised then I'll set it up with Partition Wizard. After the issues and >>crashes I had with the Star Tech kit I guess I shouldn't be too surprised >>at a screwed up drive?

That worked as far as it went. Mini Tool Partition Wizard said it was a
"bad drive" and Windows Disk Management just says I/O error. I'll check
the warranty status tomorrow, at least the local post office know how to
send things to the Czech Republic now after the last one!

It's in warranty, WD has issued an RMA. Bit worrying as I bought six of
these in 2020.
Even more worrying is that a Crucial MX 2 TB has now also failed, I'll do
some tests on it tomorrow. These were all used in a QNAP NAS, 4 of them
set up for RAID 6, might that have killed them?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
When you think there's no hope left remember the lobsters in the tank in
the Titanic's restaurant.

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

On 31/01/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

On 31/01/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff >Gaines wrote:

One drive not recognised, a 2 TB WD again. I tried it in a couple of slots >>but it seems to be the drive as the slot works with a different drive. It >>does work if I attach it using USB and chkdsk says its fine. I think I >>will strip it off and put it in as a bare drive to see if I can get it >>recognised then I'll set it up with Partition Wizard. After the issues and >>crashes I had with the Star Tech kit I guess I shouldn't be too surprised >>at a screwed up drive?

That worked as far as it went. Mini Tool Partition Wizard said it was a >"bad drive" and Windows Disk Management just says I/O error. I'll check
the warranty status tomorrow, at least the local post office know how to >send things to the Czech Republic now after the last one!

It's in warranty, WD has issued an RMA. Bit worrying as I bought six of
these in 2020.
Even more worrying is that a Crucial MX 2 TB has now also failed, I'll do some tests on it tomorrow. These were all used in a QNAP NAS, 4 of them
set up for RAID 6, might that have killed them?

I think the complexity of all this is the major problem! There are
multiple drives of different types in one system, they've been in a
NAS, they've been [re]partitioned, they've had multiple interfaces.

Over the past 20 years or more of running computers at home I think I
have had about one disk drive fail (maybe 2) out of dozens I must have
bought.

My older NAS (now retired) had a WD 4TB drive in it that ran for ten
years or so without problems and it still reads fine if I want to see
some very old archives.

My current NAS has an 8Tb drive bought in 2020, no SMART problems at
all.

Yes, it's anecdotal, but KISS is a good philosophy for hardware as
well as everything else.

--
Chris Green
·

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XPost: uk.d-i-y

On 01/02/2025 in message <[email protected]> Chris Green wrote:

Jeff Gaines <[email protected]> wrote:

On 31/01/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff >>Gaines wrote:

On 31/01/2025 in message <[email protected]> Jeff >>>Gaines wrote:

One drive not recognised, a 2 TB WD again. I tried it in a couple of >>>>slots
but it seems to be the drive as the slot works with a different drive. >>>>It
does work if I attach it using USB and chkdsk says its fine. I think I >>>>will strip it off and put it in as a bare drive to see if I can get it >>>>recognised then I'll set it up with Partition Wizard. After the issues >>>>and
crashes I had with the Star Tech kit I guess I shouldn't be too >>>>surprised
at a screwed up drive?

That worked as far as it went. Mini Tool Partition Wizard said it was a >>>"bad drive" and Windows Disk Management just says I/O error. I'll check >>>the warranty status tomorrow, at least the local post office know how to >>>send things to the Czech Republic now after the last one!

It's in warranty, WD has issued an RMA. Bit worrying as I bought six of >>these in 2020.
Even more worrying is that a Crucial MX 2 TB has now also failed, I'll do >>some tests on it tomorrow. These were all used in a QNAP NAS, 4 of them
set up for RAID 6, might that have killed them?

I think the complexity of all this is the major problem! There are
multiple drives of different types in one system, they've been in a
NAS, they've been [re]partitioned, they've had multiple interfaces.

Over the past 20 years or more of running computers at home I think I
have had about one disk drive fail (maybe 2) out of dozens I must have >bought.

My older NAS (now retired) had a WD 4TB drive in it that ran for ten
years or so without problems and it still reads fine if I want to see
some very old archives.

My current NAS has an 8Tb drive bought in 2020, no SMART problems at
all.

Yes, it's anecdotal, but KISS is a good philosophy for hardware as
well as everything else.

Interesting, I've just sat down to have a cup of tea and think this through!

Thinking out loud a bit....

There are three potential points of failure:

The backplane on the new Silverstone case.
The LSI SAS 9207 or its cables.
The drives themselves.

I have spent the morning trying different permutations. The top drive in
the case won't play with the LSI 9207.

After LOTS of checking fiddling swapping:

I tried it on a USB connector on another PC, no probs recognised
immediately, disk check found nothing.
Took LSI 9207 out, put 6 x SATA PCIe card in.
Connected two of the ports on the card to the backplane.
Re-booted.
Drive recognised immediately.

When I've had my tea I'll wire up the other drives and ensure they can all
be recognised. Assuming they are recognised I think I'll stick to the SATA
PCIe card and have reasonable grounds for returning the LSI.

My drives do get swapped around a lot, my 10 or so PCs are a substitute
for the Meccano set I never had!

Hope that all makes sense.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I was standing in the park wondering why Frisbees got bigger as they get closer.
Then it hit me.

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