I have raised this before and was pointed towards ICACLS which has been a
life saver, sorry can't remember who suggested it.

I did a Win 10 re-install on my HP Z620 as it's the only way to get rid of
VS 2022. Once again I am running into permissions issues and ICACLING to
myself to fix them.

I have a suspicion that it is because I keep my data on the "D" drive and
Win 10 works on numbers (?SID) not names so the "jeff" from the previous install is not recognised as the "jeff" from the new install. Perhaps the
law of unintended consequences at work? I don't remember issue like this
on Win 8, is it Win 10 obtrusiveness causing the issue I wonder?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Though no-one can go back and make a new start, everyone can start from
now and make a new ending.

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On 05/07/2023 in message <[email protected]> Andy Burns wrote:

Jeff Gaines wrote:

I have a suspicion that it is because I keep my data on the "D" drive and >>Win 10 works on numbers (?SID) not names so the "jeff" from the previous >>install is not recognised as the "jeff" from the new install.

Yes it uses the SIDs, but if there are "remnants" of old permissions, the >files/folders should show up a "question mark head" as the person it
thinks has permissions, do you see any of those?

I used to use setACL to clean them up
<https://helgeklein.com/setacl>

Many thanks,looks like I'd need to be very careful with that :-)

I wonder if I would be better off using the Z620 as a "proper" server when
the only permissions that mattered would be my sign on to it as a server?
If that would work I could clean off the shared drives and re-copy data
back to the Z620 from the QNAP server - although I don't know what that
would do to permissions?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists
or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Jeff Gaines wrote:

I have a suspicion that it is because I keep my data on the "D" drive
and Win 10 works on numbers (?SID) not names so the "jeff" from the
previous install is not recognised as the "jeff" from the new install.

Yes it uses the SIDs, but if there are "remnants" of old permissions,
the files/folders should show up a "question mark head" as the person it
thinks has permissions, do you see any of those?

I used to use setACL to clean them up
<https://helgeklein.com/setacl>

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On 05/07/2023 14:13, Jeff Gaines wrote:

I have raised this before and was pointed towards ICACLS which has been
a life saver, sorry can't remember who suggested it.

ICACLS can be dangerous. When I first discovered it I was playing with
the permissions on a service that ran as part of an application I was
using. I can't remember exactly what I was trying to do, but I ran
ICACLS on the service name without specifying any new permissions --
expecting it would just display the existing permissions -- and it took
all the permissions away. All of them. Including the permission needed
to set its permissions with ICACLS.

This was on a work PC, and nobody -- not even the domain administrator
-- could manage to set any permissions for that service. I couldn't use
the service in question, nor delete or deinstall it. Fortunately the
admin saw the funny side.

It is (or was then, this was 10+ years ago) a prime example of why
Microsoft should NOT be allowed to publish software.

I have a suspicion that it is because I keep my data on the "D" drive
and Win 10 works on numbers (?SID) not names so the "jeff" from the
previous install is not recognised as the "jeff" from the new
install.

Yeah, Windows doesn't like it if you try to transfer a second drive
between systems with different user hierarchies. There is a 'right' way
to manage this, which is to make both systems (in your case the original
and the reinstall) part of the same Windows domain (which means running
a domain controller to handle identities). That way the user with the
same name gets the same SID on both systems and everything just works.

Obviously, you haven't done that, so it's not a lot of help :-(

Perhaps the law of unintended consequences at work? I don't remember
issue like this on Win 8, is it Win 10 obtrusiveness causing the
issue I wonder?

I've seen exactly that problem on earlier NT-based systems. For examole,
when a family member bought a new PC and wanted to attach the C drive
from the old PC as a second HDD to transfer data. Although the main user
was called "Fred" (not her real name) on both PCs the account SIDs were different so the new PC didn't have access to files on the old PC. This
was using XP (on both machines).

It's a facet of the way permissions are managed in NTFS. You don't have
this problem with FAT.


--
Cheers,
Daniel.

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On 05/07/2023 in message <u8486i$iu7e$[email protected]> Daniel James wrote:

It's a facet of the way permissions are managed in NTFS. You don't have
this problem with FAT.

Many thanks for that :-)

If I formatted an external drive to FAT32, copied data to it, formatted
the drive on the PC and then copied the files back would that clear up the permissions? At least it would prevent me making a disastrous mistake!

I have 59 files over 4 GB so would need to deal with those manually.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is

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On 05/07/2023 18:49, Jeff Gaines wrote:

If I formatted an external drive to FAT32, copied data to it, formatted
the drive on the PC and then copied the files back would that clear up
the permissions?

Not necessarily ... but possibly.

Firstly, FAT32 and NTFS have different rules about filename lengths,
path lengths, and characters allowed in filenames, so the copy might not
be identical to the original.

Secondly, the file ownership and permissions once you'd copied
everything back would be determined by the permissions of destination
drive ... so you might copy a file that belonged to the Administrator
but was readable by the user account and get back a copy that belonged
to the user account.

There may also be differences in things like the granularity of
timestamps, I don't recall.

These things might not happen, and might not matter, but you can't say
that the procedure will necessarily be a success.

I have 59 files over 4 GB so would need to deal with those manually.

Use exFAT instead of FAT32?

--
Cheers,
Daniel.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 05/07/2023 in message <u84qpd$l1d3$[email protected]> Daniel James wrote:

On 05/07/2023 18:49, Jeff Gaines wrote:

If I formatted an external drive to FAT32, copied data to it, formatted
the drive on the PC and then copied the files back would that clear up
the permissions?

Not necessarily ... but possibly.

Firstly, FAT32 and NTFS have different rules about filename lengths, path >lengths, and characters allowed in filenames, so the copy might not be >identical to the original.

Secondly, the file ownership and permissions once you'd copied everything >back would be determined by the permissions of destination drive ... so
you might copy a file that belonged to the Administrator but was readable
by the user account and get back a copy that belonged to the user account.

There may also be differences in things like the granularity of
timestamps, I don't recall.

These things might not happen, and might not matter, but you can't say
that the procedure will necessarily be a success.

I have 59 files over 4 GB so would need to deal with those manually.

Use exFAT instead of FAT32?

Many thanks Daniel :-)

I am in progress. I have a 1TB SSD in the Z620 formatted exFAT and am
copying data to it. It does pop up now and then saying it can't copy permissions which seems to show it's doing what I need.

The main PC - Z170K - is working fine with the old data drives
disconnected and I seem to have copied the right things to the right
places, XanaNews is working anyway!

64,000 dollar question. What about using exFAT on the Z620 (which runs Win
10 and ill be the server with all my data on it)? Might save all these
issues next time I re-install.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 6 Jul 2023 at 10:17:35 BST, ""Jeff Gaines"" <[email protected]>
wrote:

64,000 dollar question. What about using exFAT on the Z620 (which runs Win
10 and ill be the server with all my data on it)? Might save all these
issues next time I re-install.

Christ no. It's the most fragile and flimsy filesystem you could
possibly use on a Windows box.

I've given in to the crapness: Put my user stuff on C: where Windows
wants it, and set up backups to another drive to keep it all safe. To be
fair, Windows has only smashed itself once time in the last 6 years on
the main winbox.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Nothing is so good that somebody, somewhere will not hate it.
-- Frederik Pohl

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