On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:39:28 +0000, Mike Halmarack
<[email protected]> wrote:

I bought a WD 8TB external drive for archiving.
3 GPT partitions to take data from 3 PCs.
Several folders and numerous subfolders on each partition.

While my Dell laptop reads the drive, its partitions and folders
accurately, my Surface pro 2 only sees one folder and a couple of
files on each partition.
Both PCs have up to date Windows 10 Pro running.

Ive being trying to run all external drives from the Surface Pro on
the basis that it consumes less energy than the dell laptop. The other
PC, a desktop, is rarely live.
Any ideas about where the problem lies would be most appreciated.

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On 13/12/2022 09:43, Mike Halmarack wrote:
<snip>

Ive being trying to run all external drives from the Surface Pro on
the basis that it consumes less energy than the dell laptop. The other
PC, a desktop, is rarely live.
Any ideas about where the problem lies would be most appreciated.

I can't offer help re the problem but just a thought re the energy.

The law of conservation of energy states that 'energy can neither be
created nor destroyed' so if you are currently heating the room this kit
is in, any energy not used in making the kit function is likely to be
released as heat (tech kit gets warm etc) and so simply means you won't
need to add so much energy to heat to that space (likely by an
immeasurably small amount). ;-)

If it's unheated or the summer then it's more of an issue of course,
unless you have solar panels. ;-)

FWIW, I've been considering the running cost of stuff for years now (and
much of it logged via my Home Automation system) and why my Windows Home
Server was based on a quad care Atom desktop board with passive cooling
and 3 x 500GB laptop drives. It idled at about 20W which was quite good
for those days (and about the same as my Mac Mini desktop PC).

I've just picked up a s/h Shuttle Slimline PC and even with a 3GHz+ i5
CPU it idles just under 10W. A lower spec Shuttle running as a DTV
server is around 12W.

I think my lowest power consumption NAS is a Raspberry Pi2B running OMV
with a 3TB external Laptop drive and that's about 5W. (15W less than my
single drive Synology NAS and about 40W less than my Terrastation). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 10:04:03 +0000, T i m <[email protected]>
wrote:

On 13/12/2022 09:43, Mike Halmarack wrote:
<snip>

Ive being trying to run all external drives from the Surface Pro on
the basis that it consumes less energy than the dell laptop. The other
PC, a desktop, is rarely live.
Any ideas about where the problem lies would be most appreciated.

I can't offer help re the problem but just a thought re the energy.

The law of conservation of energy states that 'energy can neither be
created nor destroyed' so if you are currently heating the room this kit
is in, any energy not used in making the kit function is likely to be >released as heat (tech kit gets warm etc) and so simply means you won't
need to add so much energy to heat to that space (likely by an
immeasurably small amount). ;-)

If it's unheated or the summer then it's more of an issue of course,
unless you have solar panels. ;-)

FWIW, I've been considering the running cost of stuff for years now (and
much of it logged via my Home Automation system) and why my Windows Home >Server was based on a quad care Atom desktop board with passive cooling
and 3 x 500GB laptop drives. It idled at about 20W which was quite good
for those days (and about the same as my Mac Mini desktop PC).

I've just picked up a s/h Shuttle Slimline PC and even with a 3GHz+ i5
CPU it idles just under 10W. A lower spec Shuttle running as a DTV
server is around 12W.

I think my lowest power consumption NAS is a Raspberry Pi2B running OMV
with a 3TB external Laptop drive and that's about 5W. (15W less than my >single drive Synology NAS and about 40W less than my Terrastation). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Thanks for that info it comes over as very thorough and detailed.
My current problem is that I want to keep as much as possible of my
computing in one heated room. The one with the Surface Pro 2 and the
big TV, which covers yet more domestic (in)activities.
--

Mike

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 13/12/2022 10:13, Mike Halmarack wrote:
<snip>

Thanks for that info it comes over as very thorough and detailed.

Thank you. It's often not particularly scientific, more finger in the
air based on 'you can manage what you can measure'. ;-)

My current problem is that I want to keep as much as possible of my
computing in one heated room. The one with the Surface Pro 2 and the
big TV, which covers yet more domestic (in)activities.

Erm, sorry, I'm not sure I quite follow the situation there Mike.

Are you saying the issue is when you *aren't* using the room and any
wasted heat from the tech stuff is then really going to waste?

If that's the case then whilst you are right, the waste heat isn't
completely going to waste if you keep the room closed when not in use as
it might still lift the base temperature (slightly) meaning your
intentional heating has slightly less work to do when you turn it on
(winter only etc).

I think the science should support that that very low level of heat will
only raise the temperature slightly (if at all ITRW <g>) meaning the temperature differential will stay very small and so it won't lose much
of that heat as fast as it will when the heating is up and the
temperature is higher.

The other thing I try to do is match the solution to the actual need as
closely as possible, even if that means it's a compromise.

So say I have a video server that is on 24/7 that needs to transcode
then it may need to be more powerful (and so likely have a higher power consumption) than one that can't and you have to rely on the client
device to do more of the work, but that might only be on when you are
there watching TV?

Or if you look at a File Server that like my RPi, isn't the fastest in
the world so means that I might need to copy an HD video file locally to
be able to play it smoothly, that 'effort' could be considered worth it
for the few times you might have to do it every year? Or only bothering
with SD over HD because you still get the spirit of a film, even without
every fine detail?

All of this is a function of the usage. eg, Work where 'time is money'
or pleasure where as long as it works, a bit of extra delay (in the
overall picture) might be acceptable?

Given that most home file servers are probably 1% utilised ... ?

I invested a reasonable sum in the Odroid N2+ home automation host
because I planned having it a long time, it needed to be on 24/7 (and it
can't sleep) and so I wanted to use something that was both fully
supported and used the least power. I think it runs at about 3W idle
(and it is most of the time) and less than 7W running a test on all 4 cores.

https://carlosedp.medium.com/hardkernel-odroid-n2-review-and-benchmarks-b6996b002582

If you compare that (.003 kW x 24 h x 365 d = 27kWh/pa) with say the
Atom powered shuttles I have several of that idle at 10W (88 kWh/pa),
that's a saving of ~60 kWh/pa or about £20 at the current prices (if my
maths is right). ;-)

Now, given I paid around £140 for the complete Odroid solution (board,
case, PSU, pre programmed eMMC and delivery etc) that means compared
with the (free) shuttles it will take 7 years to break even. However,
what it also means is it can only get better if the energy prices
increase and keeping the base load down means it would all be easier to
support though power cuts via a UPS and doing my bit for the grid.

Talking of that, it's interesting to see how close we get to the UK
power demand wire:

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
(top left gauge).

Cheers, T i m

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:17:35 +0000, T i m <[email protected]>
wrote:

On 13/12/2022 10:13, Mike Halmarack wrote:
<snip>

Thanks for that info it comes over as very thorough and detailed.

Thank you. It's often not particularly scientific, more finger in the
air based on 'you can manage what you can measure'. ;-)

My current problem is that I want to keep as much as possible of my
computing in one heated room. The one with the Surface Pro 2 and the
big TV, which covers yet more domestic (in)activities.

Erm, sorry, I'm not sure I quite follow the situation there Mike.

Are you saying the issue is when you *aren't* using the room and any
wasted heat from the tech stuff is then really going to waste?

In my simple way I'm not so much thinking of the heat and energy going
to waste so much as the energy being used at all, or more to the
point, not being used. this on the crude basis that the less
electricity I use, the smaller the energy bill will be. A small
gesture with a similarly sized effect.

If that's the case then whilst you are right, the waste heat isn't
completely going to waste if you keep the room closed when not in use as
it might still lift the base temperature (slightly) meaning your
intentional heating has slightly less work to do when you turn it on
(winter only etc).

I think the science should support that that very low level of heat will
only raise the temperature slightly (if at all ITRW <g>) meaning the >temperature differential will stay very small and so it won't lose much
of that heat as fast as it will when the heating is up and the
temperature is higher.

The other thing I try to do is match the solution to the actual need as >closely as possible, even if that means it's a compromise.

So say I have a video server that is on 24/7 that needs to transcode
then it may need to be more powerful (and so likely have a higher power >consumption) than one that can't and you have to rely on the client
device to do more of the work, but that might only be on when you are
there watching TV?

Or if you look at a File Server that like my RPi, isn't the fastest in
the world so means that I might need to copy an HD video file locally to
be able to play it smoothly, that 'effort' could be considered worth it
for the few times you might have to do it every year? Or only bothering
with SD over HD because you still get the spirit of a film, even without >every fine detail?

All of this is a function of the usage. eg, Work where 'time is money'
or pleasure where as long as it works, a bit of extra delay (in the
overall picture) might be acceptable?

Given that most home file servers are probably 1% utilised ... ?

I invested a reasonable sum in the Odroid N2+ home automation host
because I planned having it a long time, it needed to be on 24/7 (and it >can't sleep) and so I wanted to use something that was both fully
supported and used the least power. I think it runs at about 3W idle
(and it is most of the time) and less than 7W running a test on all 4 cores.

https://carlosedp.medium.com/hardkernel-odroid-n2-review-and-benchmarks-b6996b002582

If you compare that (.003 kW x 24 h x 365 d = 27kWh/pa) with say the
Atom powered shuttles I have several of that idle at 10W (88 kWh/pa),
that's a saving of ~60 kWh/pa or about �20 at the current prices (if my
maths is right). ;-)

Now, given I paid around �140 for the complete Odroid solution (board,
case, PSU, pre programmed eMMC and delivery etc) that means compared
with the (free) shuttles it will take 7 years to break even. However,
what it also means is it can only get better if the energy prices
increase and keeping the base load down means it would all be easier to >support though power cuts via a UPS and doing my bit for the grid.

Talking of that, it's interesting to see how close we get to the UK
power demand wire:

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
(top left gauge).

Cheers, T i m

This subject, as you describe it, is so interesting and relevant, that
once I get my archive drive fixed, I'll give it a lot more
consideration than I did before you explained it so well.

--

Mike

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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