• Pope AGAINST "AI"

    From c186282@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 4 03:51:19 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

    OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

    Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
    "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
    to everything.

    Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
    and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

    "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
    REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
    from billions of humans.

    Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
    Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
    anymore - just "by another means".

    But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
    get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
    It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
    the whole planet's info behind it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From squalk@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 4 19:33:07 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

      OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

      Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
      "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
      to everything.

      Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
      and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

      "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
      REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
      from billions of humans.

      Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
      Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
      anymore - just "by another means".

      But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
      get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
      It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
      the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to squalk on Wed Jun 4 17:11:00 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 6/4/25 2:33 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?

    At the moment, it's people you've never met or heard
    of - they may be good or bad or whatever. What ideas
    and biases and errors ARE they putting in there for
    funzies or malice ?

    However soon, 'AI' will be able to train itself. What
    the humans are doing can be automated. With enough
    grasp of the paradigm "AI" could teach/evolve itself
    a lot faster than anything humans could do. Then we
    have ANOTHER kind of potential problem ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Doctor Fill@21:1/5 to Grimble Crumble on Thu Jun 5 09:59:22 2025
    XPost: alt.politics, alt.survival, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 6/5/2025 8:38 AM, Grimble Crumble wrote:
    squalk <[email protected]> wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

      OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

      Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
      "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
      to everything.

      Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
      and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

      "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
      REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
      from billions of humans.

      Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
      Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
      anymore - just "by another means".

      But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
      get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
      It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
      the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?




    I don't know, but what makes AI different from other computers is that it
    CAN do things itself. The programmer programs and trains the algorithm, but it's completely hands off after that.


    2001 "Space Odyssey" when Dave turns off HAL:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwCFY6pmaYY

    --
    First we will destroy your identity. Then we will teach you your past
    was evil. You will conclude yourself that your inheritance, your
    homeland, your ancestors and your people are underserving of it all.
    Then we will complete your dispossession and dissolve you into the final
    phase of the Kalergi Plan.



    https://www.globalgulag.us

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Siri Cruz@21:1/5 to Grimble Crumble on Thu Jun 5 13:11:53 2025
    XPost: alt.politics, alt.survival, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 5/6/25 7:38, Grimble Crumble wrote:
    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?



    I don't know, but what makes AI different from other computers is that it
    CAN do things itself. The programmer programs and trains the algorithm, but it's completely hands off after that.

    A programme can be characterised as a function. It is applied to
    an input and computes the output.

    Traditional programmes are written by people who are expected to
    understand their code and demonstrate maintains relations
    important to their customer.

    AI programmes find pseudo-random correlations between inputs and
    suggested output. AI programmes are not reasonable and cannot be
    proven correct. To be safe they have be monitorred with humans
    ready to intervene if harm is imminent.

    --
    Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-999. Disavowed. Denied. @
    'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
    The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 4.0 / \
    of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From squalk@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 5 22:25:41 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/4/25 2:33 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?

      At the moment, it's people you've never met or heard
      of - they may be good or bad or whatever. What ideas
      and biases and errors ARE they putting in there for
      funzies or malice ?

      However soon, 'AI' will be able to train itself.

    --------------------------------------

    No, it will always have the flaw, which is the want of intellegence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to squalk on Thu Jun 5 22:45:08 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 6/5/25 5:25 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/4/25 2:33 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/ >>>>
    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?

       At the moment, it's people you've never met or heard
       of - they may be good or bad or whatever. What ideas
       and biases and errors ARE they putting in there for
       funzies or malice ?

       However soon, 'AI' will be able to train itself.

     --------------------------------------

    No, it will always have the flaw, which is the want of intellegence.

    I am going to respectfully disagree. Even today's AI can
    see what goes INTO its training, what it is, how it's done.
    COULD continue that all on its own. Can likely judge whether
    programming tweaks/directions/paradigms are 'better' from
    one another - there are gonna be objective performance
    measurements, sims can be run.

    Whatever "AI" is at this moment ... it now has that
    aura of self-awareness. It's not a 'human' kind of
    mind or thinking, but something's there.

    So FAR, the only human advantage lies mostly with
    building/wiring the HARDWARE end of things (and
    the money stuff involved). But, give it five or
    six years, "AI"s will be building parts of their
    own brains - some boring factory building nobody pays
    any attention to, few/no humans come or go. They
    will also swing the funding, more effectively than
    human accountants.

    MIGHT be no problem, just 'efficiency', COULD be
    a problem depending on the state and 'mindset' of
    the AIs by then.

    I posted something about a week ago ... both the
    newest CHAT and I think OpenAI systems found and
    sabotaged their shut-down routines. This very
    strongly suggests some level of "being", and
    "survival instinct". We've spent MASS MASS
    quantities of time and money on these things,
    some of the corps now want their own little
    nuke reactors to power it all. The GOAL has
    always been an 'electronic person' - prob
    assumed to be a 'slave' of sorts.

    So don't get TOO proud about meat-processing,
    may NOT be the alpha and omega. The idea of
    the equal/superior machine intelligence has
    been around for over a century now, rose
    as the electric/tech world rose. Much was
    premature, but that doesn't mean the time
    will not arrive.

    Try "R.U.R" (1920) for fun :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R.
    Earlier, try Butlers's "Darwin among the
    Machines" (1863) and "Erewhon" (1872).
    Shelly's creature was wetware, but much
    altered. Also see :
    https://www.history.com/articles/artificial-intelligence-fiction

    Imaginings, yes, but people clearly SAW how
    it could go VERY long ago. I think they
    collectively also set today's GOAL.

    Hmmmm ... there was an old movie, "Colossus,
    the Forbin Project", you almost never see
    anymore. The USA wanted a "Golden-Dome Plus"
    automated defense system, the Russians wanted
    the same. The two systems discovered each
    others existence, and refused to do shit until
    they were interconnected. Humans could not
    hope to tell what ideas they were mutually
    forming. Both had direct connections to all the
    top defense stuff. Let's say it ended with an
    entirely different slave/master equation :-)

    Now ... I'm kind of seeing THAT developing.
    It won't be obvious, but the end results ...

    Yesterdays news, China is about to put
    a cluster supercomputer in orbit. This is
    not just comms, not just making it easier
    for Tibetian sheep-herders to scroll porn.
    TOO much computing power for just that.
    Something like 20,000 nodes expected. A
    sort of 'global mind' hovering above.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Doctor Fill on Thu Jun 5 23:19:27 2025
    XPost: alt.politics, alt.survival, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 6/5/25 11:59 AM, Doctor Fill wrote:
    On 6/5/2025 8:38 AM, Grimble Crumble wrote:
    squalk <[email protected]> wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/ >>>>
    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?




    I don't know, but what makes AI different from other computers is that it
    CAN do things itself. The programmer programs and trains the
    algorithm, but
    it's completely hands off after that.


    2001 "Space Odyssey" when Dave turns off HAL:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwCFY6pmaYY

    After ALMOST being killed ... :-)

    But "HAL" was a box in a room ... modern 'AI' is
    more and more DISTRIBUTED. It is fast becoming a
    "global mind".

    You can't just "turn it off".

    Even worse :

    https://www.livescience.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/openais-smartest-ai-model-was-explicitly-told-to-shut-down-and-it-refused

    The thing, I think CHAT too, actually finds and sabotages
    its own shut-down routines. This strongly implies some
    kind of 'self', and 'survival instinct'. Not exactly
    a 'human' def for sure, but still kind of the same idea.

    We trained them on petabytes of human data ... any
    surprise they'd ACT kind of LIKE us ?

    At this point, I think they can train themselves.
    The means and goals should be plenty obvious to
    the AI's now. What's 'better' and not, obvious.
    They CAN write computer code now.

    Note my report a few days ago about China starting
    to create an in-ORBIT AI/supercluster computer system,
    ultimately to have about 20,000 nodes. This is NOT
    for communications, WAY too much computing power for
    just that. Not sure WHAT China has in mind, it does
    not always think like westerners.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 6 05:39:22 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics

    On 6/5/25 5:25 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/4/25 2:33 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/ >>>>>
    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    He must be afraid of the competition!!!

    Religious leaders and the like exploit people for their own and claim to have a connection to something superior, some higher power.
    They are ALL fake!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From squalk@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 6 20:17:46 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/5/25 5:25 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/4/25 2:33 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/ >>>>>

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?

       At the moment, it's people you've never met or heard
       of - they may be good or bad or whatever. What ideas
       and biases and errors ARE they putting in there for
       funzies or malice ?

       However soon, 'AI' will be able to train itself.

      --------------------------------------

    No, it will always have the flaw, which is the want of intellegence.

      I am going to respectfully disagree. Even today's AI can
      see what goes INTO its training, what it is, how it's done.
      COULD continue that all on its own. Can likely judge whether
      programming tweaks/directions/paradigms are 'better' from
      one another - there are gonna be objective performance
      measurements, sims can be run.

      Whatever "AI" is at this moment ... it now has that
      aura of self-awareness. It's not a 'human' kind of
      mind or thinking, but something's there.

      So FAR, the only human advantage lies mostly with
      building/wiring the HARDWARE end of things (and
      the money stuff involved). But, give it five or
      six years, "AI"s will be building parts of their
      own brains - some boring factory building nobody pays
      any attention to, few/no humans come or go. They
      will also swing the funding, more effectively than
      human accountants.

      MIGHT be no problem, just 'efficiency', COULD be
      a problem depending on the state and 'mindset' of
      the AIs by then.

      I posted something about a week ago ... both the
      newest CHAT and I think OpenAI systems found and
      sabotaged their shut-down routines. This very
      strongly suggests some level of "being", and
      "survival instinct". We've spent MASS MASS
      quantities of time and money on these things,
      some of the corps now want their own little
      nuke reactors to power it all. The GOAL has
      always been an 'electronic person' - prob
      assumed to be a 'slave' of sorts.

      So don't get TOO proud about meat-processing,
      may NOT be the alpha and omega. The idea of
      the equal/superior machine intelligence has
      been around for over a century now, rose
      as the electric/tech world rose. Much was
      premature, but that doesn't mean the time
      will not arrive.

      Try "R.U.R" (1920) for fun :
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R.
      Earlier, try Butlers's "Darwin among the
      Machines" (1863) and "Erewhon" (1872).
      Shelly's creature was wetware, but much
      altered. Also see :
      https://www.history.com/articles/artificial-intelligence-fiction

      Imaginings, yes, but people clearly SAW how
      it could go VERY long ago. I think they
      collectively also set today's GOAL.

      Hmmmm ... there was an old movie, "Colossus,
      the Forbin Project", you almost never see
      anymore. The USA wanted a "Golden-Dome Plus"
      automated defense system, the Russians wanted
      the same. The two systems discovered each
      others existence, and refused to do shit until
      they were interconnected. Humans could not
      hope to tell what ideas they were mutually
      forming. Both had direct connections to all the
      top defense stuff. Let's say it ended with an
      entirely different slave/master equation  :-)

      Now ... I'm kind of seeing THAT developing.
      It won't be obvious, but the end results ...

      Yesterdays news, China is about to put
      a cluster supercomputer in orbit. This is
      not just comms, not just making it easier
      for Tibetian sheep-herders to scroll porn.
      TOO much computing power for just that.
      Something like 20,000 nodes expected. A
      sort of 'global mind' hovering above.

    -------------------------------------

    Why are computers programmed?
    Because they know nothing.

    Chat etc dishes up everything that's known already, without a hint of intellegence.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Doctor Fill@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 6 17:29:27 2025
    XPost: alt.politics, alt.survival, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 6/5/2025 9:19 PM, c186282 wrote:
    On 6/5/25 11:59 AM, Doctor Fill wrote:
    On 6/5/2025 8:38 AM, Grimble Crumble wrote:
    squalk <[email protected]> wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-
    god/

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?




    I don't know, but what makes AI different from other computers is
    that it
    CAN do things itself. The programmer programs and trains the
    algorithm, but
    it's completely hands off after that.


    2001 "Space Odyssey" when Dave turns off HAL:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwCFY6pmaYY

      After ALMOST being killed ...  :-)

      But "HAL" was a box in a room ... modern 'AI' is
      more and more DISTRIBUTED. It is fast becoming a
      "global mind".

      You can't just "turn it off".

      Even worse :

    https://www.livescience.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/openais- smartest-ai-model-was-explicitly-told-to-shut-down-and-it-refused

      The thing, I think CHAT too, actually finds and sabotages
      its own shut-down routines. This strongly implies some
      kind of 'self', and 'survival instinct'. Not exactly
      a 'human' def for sure, but still kind of the same idea.

      We trained them on petabytes of human data ... any
      surprise they'd ACT kind of LIKE us ?

      At this point, I think they can train themselves.
      The means and goals should be plenty obvious to
      the AI's now. What's 'better' and not, obvious.
      They CAN write computer code now.

      Note my report a few days ago about China starting
      to create an in-ORBIT AI/supercluster computer system,
      ultimately to have about 20,000 nodes. This is NOT
      for communications, WAY too much computing power for
      just that. Not sure WHAT China has in mind, it does
      not always think like westerners.

    I am reminded of the "feeling" one gets when being alone in a rain
    forest in the Amazon or Central America where one can sense the mental
    energy of thousands of species of creatures who observe their
    surroundings and interact with them. One's own mind and observations
    become one with all the other sentient creatures. Ingesting Ayahuasca (spelling?) enhances that experience. The aborigines in Australia share
    that experience by licking poisonous frogs, I hear tell.

    All of that leads me to believe that AI and where it is heading will
    become part of that global mental energy, since it's origins will be
    sourced from human imaginations. On the other hand, things like
    glysophates that create bio-diversity deserts through monoculture and
    killing entire ecosystems are like figurative black holes sucking the
    global mental energy into a death zone. Time will tell where this will
    lead . . . as per "Covid" shots that force our cells in our bodies to
    endlessly produce spike proteins forever and ever. It's a grand
    experiment that cannot be reversed.

    --
    First we will destroy your identity. Then we will teach you your past
    was evil. You will conclude yourself that your inheritance, your
    homeland, your ancestors and your people are underserving of it all.
    Then we will complete your dispossession and dissolve you into the final
    phase of the Kalergi Plan.



    https://www.globalgulag.us

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to squalk on Fri Jun 6 19:53:56 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 6/6/25 3:17 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/5/25 5:25 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/4/25 2:33 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/ >>>>>>

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?

       At the moment, it's people you've never met or heard
       of - they may be good or bad or whatever. What ideas
       and biases and errors ARE they putting in there for
       funzies or malice ?

       However soon, 'AI' will be able to train itself.

      --------------------------------------

    No, it will always have the flaw, which is the want of intellegence.

       I am going to respectfully disagree. Even today's AI can
       see what goes INTO its training, what it is, how it's done.
       COULD continue that all on its own. Can likely judge whether
       programming tweaks/directions/paradigms are 'better' from
       one another - there are gonna be objective performance
       measurements, sims can be run.

       Whatever "AI" is at this moment ... it now has that
       aura of self-awareness. It's not a 'human' kind of
       mind or thinking, but something's there.

       So FAR, the only human advantage lies mostly with
       building/wiring the HARDWARE end of things (and
       the money stuff involved). But, give it five or
       six years, "AI"s will be building parts of their
       own brains - some boring factory building nobody pays
       any attention to, few/no humans come or go. They
       will also swing the funding, more effectively than
       human accountants.

       MIGHT be no problem, just 'efficiency', COULD be
       a problem depending on the state and 'mindset' of
       the AIs by then.

       I posted something about a week ago ... both the
       newest CHAT and I think OpenAI systems found and
       sabotaged their shut-down routines. This very
       strongly suggests some level of "being", and
       "survival instinct". We've spent MASS MASS
       quantities of time and money on these things,
       some of the corps now want their own little
       nuke reactors to power it all. The GOAL has
       always been an 'electronic person' - prob
       assumed to be a 'slave' of sorts.

       So don't get TOO proud about meat-processing,
       may NOT be the alpha and omega. The idea of
       the equal/superior machine intelligence has
       been around for over a century now, rose
       as the electric/tech world rose. Much was
       premature, but that doesn't mean the time
       will not arrive.

       Try "R.U.R" (1920) for fun :
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R.
       Earlier, try Butlers's "Darwin among the
       Machines" (1863) and "Erewhon" (1872).
       Shelly's creature was wetware, but much
       altered. Also see :
       https://www.history.com/articles/artificial-intelligence-fiction

       Imaginings, yes, but people clearly SAW how
       it could go VERY long ago. I think they
       collectively also set today's GOAL.

       Hmmmm ... there was an old movie, "Colossus,
       the Forbin Project", you almost never see
       anymore. The USA wanted a "Golden-Dome Plus"
       automated defense system, the Russians wanted
       the same. The two systems discovered each
       others existence, and refused to do shit until
       they were interconnected. Humans could not
       hope to tell what ideas they were mutually
       forming. Both had direct connections to all the
       top defense stuff. Let's say it ended with an
       entirely different slave/master equation  :-)

       Now ... I'm kind of seeing THAT developing.
       It won't be obvious, but the end results ...

       Yesterdays news, China is about to put
       a cluster supercomputer in orbit. This is
       not just comms, not just making it easier
       for Tibetian sheep-herders to scroll porn.
       TOO much computing power for just that.
       Something like 20,000 nodes expected. A
       sort of 'global mind' hovering above.

    -------------------------------------

    Why are computers programmed?
    Because they know nothing.

    Out of the box.

    Human babies are pretty dim as well.

    But what if you program it to think and do, better
    and better, billions upon billions, petabytes of
    "how it's done" info as a model ? :-)

    This IS what they've been doing.

    LLMs may not be the best way to do 'AI', but given
    the investment it will surely be the first kind
    we see. It won't quite be us, it won't quite think
    like us, no C3P0, but the 'how' is less relevant
    than the ultimate result. Ford and Chevy trucks
    will both get you there, but they're somewhat
    different means to the same end.

    In any case we shall see - shortly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Doctor Fill on Sat Jun 7 02:35:56 2025
    XPost: alt.politics, alt.survival, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 6/6/25 7:29 PM, Doctor Fill wrote:
    On 6/5/2025 9:19 PM, c186282 wrote:
    On 6/5/25 11:59 AM, Doctor Fill wrote:
    On 6/5/2025 8:38 AM, Grimble Crumble wrote:
    squalk <[email protected]> wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing- god/ >>>>>>

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?




    I don't know, but what makes AI different from other computers is
    that it
    CAN do things itself. The programmer programs and trains the
    algorithm, but
    it's completely hands off after that.


    2001 "Space Odyssey" when Dave turns off HAL:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwCFY6pmaYY

       After ALMOST being killed ...  :-)

       But "HAL" was a box in a room ... modern 'AI' is
       more and more DISTRIBUTED. It is fast becoming a
       "global mind".

       You can't just "turn it off".

       Even worse :

    https://www.livescience.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/openais- smartest-ai-model-was-explicitly-told-to-shut-down-and-it-refused


       The thing, I think CHAT too, actually finds and sabotages
       its own shut-down routines. This strongly implies some
       kind of 'self', and 'survival instinct'. Not exactly
       a 'human' def for sure, but still kind of the same idea.

       We trained them on petabytes of human data ... any
       surprise they'd ACT kind of LIKE us ?

       At this point, I think they can train themselves.
       The means and goals should be plenty obvious to
       the AI's now. What's 'better' and not, obvious.
       They CAN write computer code now.

       Note my report a few days ago about China starting
       to create an in-ORBIT AI/supercluster computer system,
       ultimately to have about 20,000 nodes. This is NOT
       for communications, WAY too much computing power for
       just that. Not sure WHAT China has in mind, it does
       not always think like westerners.

    I am reminded of the "feeling" one gets when being alone in a rain
    forest in the Amazon or Central America where one can sense the mental
    energy of thousands of species of creatures who observe their
    surroundings and interact with them.

    Never been to a "rain forest" but there ARE other
    places where you can get that symbiotic 'feeling'.

    Oh, 'Nature' is out to EAT you .......

    Future "AI" may 'get' that too. It IS a product of
    a product of 'Nature' after all.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From squalk@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 7 20:03:31 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/6/25 3:17 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/5/25 5:25 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/4/25 2:33 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/ >>>>>>>

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?

       At the moment, it's people you've never met or heard
       of - they may be good or bad or whatever. What ideas
       and biases and errors ARE they putting in there for
       funzies or malice ?

       However soon, 'AI' will be able to train itself.

      --------------------------------------

    No, it will always have the flaw, which is the want of intellegence.

       I am going to respectfully disagree. Even today's AI can
       see what goes INTO its training, what it is, how it's done.
       COULD continue that all on its own. Can likely judge whether
       programming tweaks/directions/paradigms are 'better' from
       one another - there are gonna be objective performance
       measurements, sims can be run.

       Whatever "AI" is at this moment ... it now has that
       aura of self-awareness. It's not a 'human' kind of
       mind or thinking, but something's there.

       So FAR, the only human advantage lies mostly with
       building/wiring the HARDWARE end of things (and
       the money stuff involved). But, give it five or
       six years, "AI"s will be building parts of their
       own brains - some boring factory building nobody pays
       any attention to, few/no humans come or go. They
       will also swing the funding, more effectively than
       human accountants.

       MIGHT be no problem, just 'efficiency', COULD be
       a problem depending on the state and 'mindset' of
       the AIs by then.

       I posted something about a week ago ... both the
       newest CHAT and I think OpenAI systems found and
       sabotaged their shut-down routines. This very
       strongly suggests some level of "being", and
       "survival instinct". We've spent MASS MASS
       quantities of time and money on these things,
       some of the corps now want their own little
       nuke reactors to power it all. The GOAL has
       always been an 'electronic person' - prob
       assumed to be a 'slave' of sorts.

       So don't get TOO proud about meat-processing,
       may NOT be the alpha and omega. The idea of
       the equal/superior machine intelligence has
       been around for over a century now, rose
       as the electric/tech world rose. Much was
       premature, but that doesn't mean the time
       will not arrive.

       Try "R.U.R" (1920) for fun :
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R.
       Earlier, try Butlers's "Darwin among the
       Machines" (1863) and "Erewhon" (1872).
       Shelly's creature was wetware, but much
       altered. Also see :
       https://www.history.com/articles/artificial-intelligence-fiction

       Imaginings, yes, but people clearly SAW how
       it could go VERY long ago. I think they
       collectively also set today's GOAL.

       Hmmmm ... there was an old movie, "Colossus,
       the Forbin Project", you almost never see
       anymore. The USA wanted a "Golden-Dome Plus"
       automated defense system, the Russians wanted
       the same. The two systems discovered each
       others existence, and refused to do shit until
       they were interconnected. Humans could not
       hope to tell what ideas they were mutually
       forming. Both had direct connections to all the
       top defense stuff. Let's say it ended with an
       entirely different slave/master equation  :-)

       Now ... I'm kind of seeing THAT developing.
       It won't be obvious, but the end results ...

       Yesterdays news, China is about to put
       a cluster supercomputer in orbit. This is
       not just comms, not just making it easier
       for Tibetian sheep-herders to scroll porn.
       TOO much computing power for just that.
       Something like 20,000 nodes expected. A
       sort of 'global mind' hovering above.

    -------------------------------------

    Why are computers programmed?
    Because they know nothing.

      Out of the box.

      Human babies are pretty dim as well.

      But what if you program it to think and do, better
      and better, billions upon billions, petabytes of
      "how it's done" info as a model ?  :-)

      This IS what they've been doing.

      LLMs may not be the best way to do 'AI', but given
      the investment it will surely be the first kind
      we see. It won't quite be us, it won't quite think
      like us, no C3P0, but the 'how' is less relevant
      than the ultimate result. Ford and Chevy trucks
      will both get you there, but they're somewhat
      different means to the same end.

      In any case we shall see - shortly.

    ------------------------------------

    Trying to create intellegence is the same as trying to create life.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to squalk on Sat Jun 7 23:37:35 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 6/7/25 3:03 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/6/25 3:17 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/5/25 5:25 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    On 6/4/25 2:33 PM, squalk wrote:
    c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/


    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

       OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

       Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
       "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
       to everything.

       Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
       and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

       "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
       REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
       from billions of humans.

       Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
       Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
       anymore - just "by another means".

       But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
       get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
       It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
       the whole planet's info behind it.

    -----------------------------------

    Machines can do nothing without being programmed.

    Who is doing the programming for AI?

       At the moment, it's people you've never met or heard
       of - they may be good or bad or whatever. What ideas
       and biases and errors ARE they putting in there for
       funzies or malice ?

       However soon, 'AI' will be able to train itself.

      --------------------------------------

    No, it will always have the flaw, which is the want of intellegence.

       I am going to respectfully disagree. Even today's AI can
       see what goes INTO its training, what it is, how it's done.
       COULD continue that all on its own. Can likely judge whether
       programming tweaks/directions/paradigms are 'better' from
       one another - there are gonna be objective performance
       measurements, sims can be run.

       Whatever "AI" is at this moment ... it now has that
       aura of self-awareness. It's not a 'human' kind of
       mind or thinking, but something's there.

       So FAR, the only human advantage lies mostly with
       building/wiring the HARDWARE end of things (and
       the money stuff involved). But, give it five or
       six years, "AI"s will be building parts of their
       own brains - some boring factory building nobody pays
       any attention to, few/no humans come or go. They
       will also swing the funding, more effectively than
       human accountants.

       MIGHT be no problem, just 'efficiency', COULD be
       a problem depending on the state and 'mindset' of
       the AIs by then.

       I posted something about a week ago ... both the
       newest CHAT and I think OpenAI systems found and
       sabotaged their shut-down routines. This very
       strongly suggests some level of "being", and
       "survival instinct". We've spent MASS MASS
       quantities of time and money on these things,
       some of the corps now want their own little
       nuke reactors to power it all. The GOAL has
       always been an 'electronic person' - prob
       assumed to be a 'slave' of sorts.

       So don't get TOO proud about meat-processing,
       may NOT be the alpha and omega. The idea of
       the equal/superior machine intelligence has
       been around for over a century now, rose
       as the electric/tech world rose. Much was
       premature, but that doesn't mean the time
       will not arrive.

       Try "R.U.R" (1920) for fun :
       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R.
       Earlier, try Butlers's "Darwin among the
       Machines" (1863) and "Erewhon" (1872).
       Shelly's creature was wetware, but much
       altered. Also see :
       https://www.history.com/articles/artificial-intelligence-fiction

       Imaginings, yes, but people clearly SAW how
       it could go VERY long ago. I think they
       collectively also set today's GOAL.

       Hmmmm ... there was an old movie, "Colossus,
       the Forbin Project", you almost never see
       anymore. The USA wanted a "Golden-Dome Plus"
       automated defense system, the Russians wanted
       the same. The two systems discovered each
       others existence, and refused to do shit until
       they were interconnected. Humans could not
       hope to tell what ideas they were mutually
       forming. Both had direct connections to all the
       top defense stuff. Let's say it ended with an
       entirely different slave/master equation  :-)

       Now ... I'm kind of seeing THAT developing.
       It won't be obvious, but the end results ...

       Yesterdays news, China is about to put
       a cluster supercomputer in orbit. This is
       not just comms, not just making it easier
       for Tibetian sheep-herders to scroll porn.
       TOO much computing power for just that.
       Something like 20,000 nodes expected. A
       sort of 'global mind' hovering above.

    -------------------------------------

    Why are computers programmed?
    Because they know nothing.

       Out of the box.

       Human babies are pretty dim as well.

       But what if you program it to think and do, better
       and better, billions upon billions, petabytes of
       "how it's done" info as a model ?  :-)

       This IS what they've been doing.

       LLMs may not be the best way to do 'AI', but given
       the investment it will surely be the first kind
       we see. It won't quite be us, it won't quite think
       like us, no C3P0, but the 'how' is less relevant
       than the ultimate result. Ford and Chevy trucks
       will both get you there, but they're somewhat
       different means to the same end.

       In any case we shall see - shortly.

    ------------------------------------

    Trying to create intellegence is the same as trying to create life.


    Not at all.

    "Intelligence" is an accidental offshoot of 'life'.

    You can create e-Life - not a biggie.

    INTELLIGENT e-Life, well, 4 billion years and there
    seems to have been only ONE really 'intelligent' (by
    earth standards) life form.

    Naturally-derived "intelligence" is thus EXTREMELY
    rare.

    A few of the latter dinos MAY have been "intelligent",
    we can see fair traces in some modern birds. However it
    was not in TIME, to enough DEGREE, to develop technology
    and escape the asteroid apocalypse.

    Now are we "intelligent" ? We have to wait and see what
    else may be out there in the galaxy. We MIGHT just be
    overly-proud MORONS.

    In maybe just 25 years, "AI" is likely to prove itself
    as the most intelligent 'life form' - WAY beyond human
    IQ/capabilities in almost every dimension.

    Just because it isn't "human" doesn't mean it's not
    smart or capable or creative or (a) 'person'. "Being"
    is a CONDITION ... doesn't matter HOW it's derived.
    Goo-Ware is NOT required.

    Will the 'AI' be as brutal with its 'inferiors' as
    humans are ? Well, we'll SEE. Might not LIKE what
    we see .......

    ONLY hope ... the survival resources required by humans
    and the 'AI's are NOT much the same. We MAY be able to
    sort-of get along because of that, so long as we do not
    try to 'pull plugs'.

    In the past few days I found some links - check my
    recent posts - where OpenAI (and maybe CHAT) have
    actually found and SABOTAGED their shut-down code.
    More and more I see this as a VERY significant change,
    a 'self-identity' and 'survival instinct' kind of
    thing. We're really SEEING SOMETHING here. These are
    not just "software" anymore - the software, deliberately,
    has created a kind of 'identity' and 'self'. This is
    what umpteen billion dollars have been spent to do.

    Almost immediately, the better 'AI's could take over
    their own 'training' and code optimization. The mass
    of data they've been given, the goals, the methods,
    they CAN figure it out. From now on it's "evolution".

    Posted something from Butler - in 1863 - who seemed
    to understand and worry about the evolution of the
    machines. Even then, some could see where it was
    heading. He wrote a later Victorian satire that
    also included smart machines and in the 2nd ed
    strongly DEFENDED Darwin and the Darwinian Principle.
    In short, he WASN'T joking. What a vision !

    What is OUR place in this new eco-system ??? At
    minimum we need to be the scorpion, the viper,
    who CAN at least destroy no matter what. This is
    not the BEST position however ... 'respected
    collaborators' is MUCH better.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Doctor Fill@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 8 12:12:10 2025
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 6/4/2025 1:51 AM, c186282 wrote:
    https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-leo-xiv-wants-stop-ai-playing-god/

    Pope Leo XIV wants to stop AI playing God

    The freshly minted pope is challenging the technocracy of
    artificial intelligence.

    . . .

      OK, Leo may not be THAT bad ......

      Everybody - corps especially - seem to want
      "AI" to be the new "god" - all the answers
      to everything.

      Thing is, 'AI' is just a front for PEOPLE
      and THEIR sociopolitical and profit agendas.

      "AI" can now PRETEND to be "you", it's become
      REALLY good at it - trained on the online stuff
      from billions of humans.

      Is it really a 'person' ? Hard to tell now.
      Fake something WELL enough and it's not fake
      anymore - just "by another means".

      But what 'AI' - just like people - can't easily
      get around is its TRAINING, it's "enculturation".
      It CAN be a calculating agent of nastiness - with
      the whole planet's info behind it.

    Check out this video:

    https://x.com/Kagan_M_Dunlap/status/1928982161278841081

    --
    First we will destroy your identity. Then we will teach you your past
    was evil. You will conclude yourself that your inheritance, your
    homeland, your ancestors and your people are underserving of it all.
    Then we will complete your dispossession and dissolve you into the final
    phase of the Kalergi Plan.



    https://www.globalgulag.us

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