• Rubio - No Progress in Ukraine - US May Resume Arms Shipments/Aid

    From c186282@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 18 17:52:51 2025
    XPost: alt.politics, alt.politics.usa, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/ap-rubio-us-ukraine-russia-peace-efforts/

    President Donald Trump on Friday said negotiations between
    Ukraine and Russia are “coming to a head” and insisted that
    neither side is “playing” him in his push to end the grinding
    war.

    Trump spoke shortly after Secretary of State Marco Rubio warned
    that the U.S. may “move on” from trying to secure a Russia-Ukraine
    peace deal if there is no progress in the coming days, after
    months of efforts have failed to bring an end to the fighting.

    “Now, if for some reason, one of the two parties makes it
    very difficult, we’re just going to say you’re foolish. You
    are fools, you horrible people,” Trump said. “And we’re going
    to just take a pass. But hopefully, we won’t have to do that.”

    Rubio’s dour assessment came after landmark talks in Paris
    among U.S., Ukrainian and European officials produced outlines
    for steps toward peace and appeared to make some long-awaited
    progress. Another meeting is expected next week in London,
    and Rubio suggested it could be decisive in determining whether
    the Trump administration continues its involvement.

    “We are now reaching a point where we need to decide whether
    this is even possible or not,” Rubio told reporters in Paris.
    “Because if it’s not, then I think we’re just going to move on.
    It’s not our war. We have other priorities to focus on.”

    He said the U.S. administration wants to decide “in a matter
    of days.”

    . . .

    Vlad has been dragging his feet, trying to gain as
    much territory as possible while escalating attacks
    on civvie targets.

    SO ... time to send Ukraine another shipment of
    nasty ordinance ...... maybe nastier and longer
    range than before ..........

    Trump was keen on helping Israel against its main
    enemies - which has been mostly a success. Hamas
    and Hezbollah still exist, but more on paper than
    as viable military threats. Iran, well, nobody is
    quite sure what to do with Iran - plusses and minuses
    regardless.

    Trump had also hoped he could concentrate on deterring
    CHINA. His shift away from the EU/NATO appears to be
    so more effort can be concentrated in Asia.

    Alas VLAD is not being cooperative, the wrench in
    the works.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From -hh@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Apr 19 07:11:51 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics, alt.politics.usa

    c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/ap-rubio-us-ukraine-russia-peace-efforts/

    President Donald Trump on Friday said negotiations between
    Ukraine and Russia are “coming to a head” and insisted that
    neither side is “playing” him in his push to end the grinding
    war.

    Trump spoke shortly after Secretary of State Marco Rubio warned
    that the U.S. may “move on” from trying to secure a Russia-Ukraine
    peace deal if there is no progress in the coming days, after
    months of efforts have failed to bring an end to the fighting.


    “Move on” is telegraphing that Trump is going to be a surrender monkey and let Putin have it all.

    Case in point:


    “We are now reaching a point where we need to decide whether
    this is even possible or not,” Rubio told reporters in Paris.
    “Because if it’s not, then I think we’re just going to move on.
    It’s not our war. We have other priorities to focus on.”

    That’s not a “resume shipments” prediction.

    SO ... time to send Ukraine another shipment of
    nasty ordinance ...... maybe nastier and longer
    range than before ..........

    Won’t happen unless Rubio & Hegseth are able to convince Trump.

    Trump had also hoped he could concentrate on deterring
    CHINA. His shift away from the EU/NATO appears to be
    so more effort can be concentrated in Asia.

    The DoD’s “Asia Pivot” goes back to Obama, but there’s far more to it than
    what people want to think: Ukraine is actually a linchpin to its strategy being feasible.. which Trump (and Biden was too) is failing on.

    -hh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 19 18:03:47 2025
    XPost: alt.politics, alt.politics.usa, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 4/18/2025 3:52 PM, c186282 wrote:
    https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/ap-rubio-us-ukraine-russia-peace- efforts/

    President Donald Trump on Friday said negotiations between
    Ukraine and Russia are “coming to a head” and insisted that
    neither side is “playing” him in his push to end the grinding
    war.

    Trump spoke shortly after Secretary of State Marco Rubio warned
    that the U.S. may “move on” from trying to secure a Russia-Ukraine
    peace deal if there is no progress in the coming days, after
    months of efforts have failed to bring an end to the fighting.

    “Now, if for some reason, one of the two parties makes it
    very difficult, we’re just going to say you’re foolish. You
    are fools, you horrible people,” Trump said. “And we’re going
    to just take a pass. But hopefully, we won’t have to do that.”

    Rubio’s dour assessment came after landmark talks in Paris
    among U.S., Ukrainian and European officials produced outlines
    for steps toward peace and appeared to make some long-awaited
    progress. Another meeting is expected next week in London,
    and Rubio suggested it could be decisive in determining whether
    the Trump administration continues its involvement.

    “We are now reaching a point where we need to decide whether
    this is even possible or not,” Rubio told reporters in Paris.
    “Because if it’s not, then I think we’re just going to move on.
    It’s not our war. We have other priorities to focus on.”

    He said the U.S. administration wants to decide “in a matter
    of days.”

    . . .

      Vlad has been dragging his feet, trying to gain as
      much territory as possible while escalating attacks
      on civvie targets.

      SO ... time to send Ukraine another shipment of
      nasty ordinance ...... maybe nastier and longer
      range than before ..........

      Trump was keen on helping Israel against its main
      enemies - which has been mostly a success. Hamas
      and Hezbollah still exist, but more on paper than
      as viable military threats. Iran, well, nobody is
      quite sure what to do with Iran - plusses and minuses
      regardless.

      Trump had also hoped he could concentrate on deterring
      CHINA. His shift away from the EU/NATO appears to be
      so more effort can be concentrated in Asia.

      Alas VLAD is not being cooperative, the wrench in
      the works.


    Rubio is another Homer Simpson. If at first you don't get instant
    success, fuck it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Governor Swill on Sat Apr 19 22:32:07 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.defense

    On 4/19/25 8:39 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 07:11:51 -0500, -hh
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The DoD’s “Asia Pivot” goes back to Obama, but there’s far more to it than
    what people want to think: Ukraine is actually a linchpin to its strategy >> being feasible.. which Trump (and Biden was too) is failing on.

    If the west allows Ukraine to fall, that will give a green light to
    dictators and warmongers across the globe.


    Well ... sort of.

    Each instance IS a bit "special".

    However Ukraine isn't THAT hard to hold. If the
    EU/NATO/USA can't even defend it then Xi and Vlad
    WILL draw certain nasty conclusions.

    What WOULD be the response to a Chinese blockade
    of Taiwan ? Taking of some Japanese islands ?
    Are we in a position - military or otherwise -
    to DO much about it ?

    Does even Trump's USA have the BALLS (or means)
    to punch steel-lined transport corridors in a
    Chinese blockade of Taiwan ??? Actual land war
    IN Taiwan ?

    All the Chinese stuff is new and highest-tech
    while the western stuff is last-gen and kinda
    underfunded.

    Just as Vlad's "holy mission from god" is to
    restore the old USSR, Xi's mission is to
    take and dominate the whole western Pacific
    and likely even to pressure India. The mentality
    of the Kaisers and Hitlers and war-lords has
    NOT disappeared in the least. Sorry, but I just
    don't think The West has the capability or will
    to DEAL anymore. We let our capabilities ROT
    while our foes pushed ahead.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AlleyCat@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 19 20:18:16 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.defense

    On 4/19/2025 7:32 PM, c186282 wrote:
    On 4/19/25 8:39 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 07:11:51 -0500, -hh
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The DoD’s “Asia Pivot” goes back to Obama, but there’s far more to it than
    what people want to think:  Ukraine is actually a linchpin to its strategy >>> being feasible.. which Trump (and Biden was too) is failing on.

    If the west allows Ukraine to fall, that will give a green light to
    dictators and warmongers across the globe.


      Well ... sort of.

      Each instance IS a bit "special".

      However Ukraine isn't THAT hard to hold. If the
      EU/NATO/USA can't even defend it then Xi and Vlad
      WILL draw certain nasty conclusions.
    The west hasn't attempted to defend it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to AlleyCat on Sat Apr 19 23:45:39 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.defense

    On 4/19/25 11:18 PM, AlleyCat wrote:
    On 4/19/2025 7:32 PM, c186282 wrote:
    On 4/19/25 8:39 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 07:11:51 -0500, -hh
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The DoD’s “Asia Pivot” goes back to Obama, but there’s far more to >>>> it than
    what people want to think:  Ukraine is actually a linchpin to its
    strategy
    being feasible.. which Trump (and Biden was too) is failing on.

    If the west allows Ukraine to fall, that will give a green light to
    dictators and warmongers across the globe.


       Well ... sort of.

       Each instance IS a bit "special".

       However Ukraine isn't THAT hard to hold. If the
       EU/NATO/USA can't even defend it then Xi and Vlad
       WILL draw certain nasty conclusions.

    The west hasn't attempted to defend it.


    Well, it's put a lot of MONEY into it .... an
    indirect defense with Ukrainians as proxy warriors.
    All politically 'safe'.

    But it's a strategy that can't last forever. Vlad
    is COUNTING on that.

    Time's up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From -hh@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Apr 20 14:41:56 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.defense

    c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/19/25 11:18 PM, AlleyCat wrote:
    On 4/19/2025 7:32 PM, c186282 wrote:
    On 4/19/25 8:39 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 07:11:51 -0500, -hh
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The DoD’s “Asia Pivot” goes back to Obama, but there’s far more to
    it than
    what people want to think:  Ukraine is actually a linchpin to its
    strategy
    being feasible.. which Trump (and Biden was too) is failing on.

    If the west allows Ukraine to fall, that will give a green light to
    dictators and warmongers across the globe.


       Well ... sort of.

       Each instance IS a bit "special".

       However Ukraine isn't THAT hard to hold. If the
       EU/NATO/USA can't even defend it then Xi and Vlad
       WILL draw certain nasty conclusions.

    The west hasn't attempted to defend it.


    Well, it's put a lot of MONEY into it ....

    Not really. Do keep in mind that the USA was claiming $100,000 “donation” for each M113 being sent at the same time that they were selling surplus
    ones to a scrap company for $1 each.


    … an
    indirect defense with Ukrainians as proxy warriors.
    All politically 'safe'.

    But it's a strategy that can't last forever.

    Even at the claimed rate of 4% of the DoD budget per year, the bang for the buck in Russian equipment & manpower destroyed is *very* sustainable.
    Probably the best value the US has gotten in over 75 years.


    Vlad is COUNTING on that.

    Putin is counting on Trump to do his bidding.


    Time's up.

    For just what, specifically? To be a surrender monkey who walks away from
    an easy & affordable win, so as to increase one’s costs & risks of a vastly more expensive entanglement with Asia?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to -hh on Sun Apr 20 20:30:33 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.defense

    On 4/20/25 3:41 PM, -hh wrote:
    c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/19/25 11:18 PM, AlleyCat wrote:
    On 4/19/2025 7:32 PM, c186282 wrote:
    On 4/19/25 8:39 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 07:11:51 -0500, -hh
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The DoD’s “Asia Pivot” goes back to Obama, but there’s far more to
    it than
    what people want to think:  Ukraine is actually a linchpin to its >>>>>> strategy
    being feasible.. which Trump (and Biden was too) is failing on.

    If the west allows Ukraine to fall, that will give a green light to
    dictators and warmongers across the globe.


       Well ... sort of.

       Each instance IS a bit "special".

       However Ukraine isn't THAT hard to hold. If the
       EU/NATO/USA can't even defend it then Xi and Vlad
       WILL draw certain nasty conclusions.

    The west hasn't attempted to defend it.


    Well, it's put a lot of MONEY into it ....

    Not really. Do keep in mind that the USA was claiming $100,000 “donation”
    for each M113 being sent at the same time that they were selling surplus
    ones to a scrap company for $1 each.


    The arms are expensive. Fixing the utility grids
    is expensive. We're not talking JUST cash here.


    … an
    indirect defense with Ukrainians as proxy warriors.
    All politically 'safe'.

    But it's a strategy that can't last forever.

    Even at the claimed rate of 4% of the DoD budget per year, the bang for the buck in Russian equipment & manpower destroyed is *very* sustainable. Probably the best value the US has gotten in over 75 years.

    Economically affordable maybe (though we need to build
    up our own stuff too). POLITICALLY affordable ... that's
    another thing entirely. Lots of reps were already bitchin
    about supporting Ukraine and they haven't gone away.


    Vlad is COUNTING on that.

    Putin is counting on Trump to do his bidding.

    Trump never does ANYONE'S bidding :-)

    Time's up.

    For just what, specifically? To be a surrender monkey who walks away from
    an easy & affordable win, so as to increase one’s costs & risks of a vastly more expensive entanglement with Asia?

    As said earlier, I don't think the USA is going to
    abandon Ukraine. If Vlad keeps dragging his feet
    we WILL find ways - direct and round-about - to
    make him pay for that. It includes arms for Ukraine.

    For political reasons we may trans-ship of course,
    send arms to Germany or France or Italy officially,
    but with a "Forward To" address. Appearances are
    preserved, politics is served.

    Also, I'm not sure how much Xi cares about the whole
    Ukraine thing - it's largely outside his sphere and
    his focus is on HIS part of the world.

    Anyway, we'll probably see fairly soon ... China has
    practiced at least two blockade exercises now and knows
    it CAN do the job. The trade disturbances MIGHT lead
    Xi to discount the economic impacts unless something
    can be resolved fairly soon.

    But neither Trump or Xi can be seen to blink first ...
    the usual ........

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From -hh@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Apr 21 07:27:39 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics, alt.politics.usa
    XPost: alt.defense

    c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/20/25 3:41 PM, -hh wrote:
    c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/19/25 11:18 PM, AlleyCat wrote:
    On 4/19/2025 7:32 PM, c186282 wrote:
    On 4/19/25 8:39 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 07:11:51 -0500, -hh
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    The DoD’s “Asia Pivot” goes back to Obama, but there’s far more to
    it than
    what people want to think:  Ukraine is actually a linchpin to its >>>>>>> strategy
    being feasible.. which Trump (and Biden was too) is failing on.

    If the west allows Ukraine to fall, that will give a green light to >>>>>> dictators and warmongers across the globe.


       Well ... sort of.

       Each instance IS a bit "special".

       However Ukraine isn't THAT hard to hold. If the
       EU/NATO/USA can't even defend it then Xi and Vlad
       WILL draw certain nasty conclusions.

    The west hasn't attempted to defend it.


    Well, it's put a lot of MONEY into it ....

    Not really. Do keep in mind that the USA was claiming $100,000 “donation”
    for each M113 being sent at the same time that they were selling surplus
    ones to a scrap company for $1 each.

    The arms are expensive. Fixing the utility grids
    is expensive. We're not talking JUST cash here.

    Point is that there’s been extensive accounting tricks played.

    Another example are HIMARS cluster munitions that have been sent: full
    cost of manufacturing have been claimed for their worth, but due to a
    treaty the US signed years ago, we can never use them, so they were sitting
    in storage waiting for funding to destroy them (“demil”).

    By giving them away, we claimed politically that they were worth millions
    while we literally were saving money by doing so. Same thing happened with expired Stinger missiles & others: it’s cheaper to give them away than to
    pay for their demil.


    … an
    indirect defense with Ukrainians as proxy warriors.
    All politically 'safe'.

    But it's a strategy that can't last forever.

    Even at the claimed rate of 4% of the DoD budget per year, the bang for the >> buck in Russian equipment & manpower destroyed is *very* sustainable.
    Probably the best value the US has gotten in over 75 years.

    Economically affordable maybe (though we need to build
    up our own stuff too).

    No “maybe” about it, as demil isn’t cheap.


    POLITICALLY affordable ... that's
    another thing entirely. Lots of reps were already bitchin
    about supporting Ukraine and they haven't gone away.

    How much of their whining then was simply to be in opposition to Biden? Likewise, how much of it now is to suck up to Trump?


    Vlad is COUNTING on that.

    Putin is counting on Trump to do his bidding.

    Trump never does ANYONE'S bidding :-)

    Yes, Trump is only out for himself, but Trump is also compromised. As
    such, he will do Putin’s bidding as much as he can get away with to save
    his own hide. It may take another 10-20-30 years for this to come out, but
    it won’t stay buried forever.



    Time's up.

    For just what, specifically? To be a surrender monkey who walks away from >> an easy & affordable win, so as to increase one’s costs & risks of a vastly
    more expensive entanglement with Asia?

    As said earlier, I don't think the USA is going to
    abandon Ukraine. If Vlad keeps dragging his feet
    we WILL find ways - direct and round-about - to
    make him pay for that. It includes arms for Ukraine.

    Only if Trump is able to be countered, and in time.
    Otherwise, the Baltics will be next for Putin, and China will move even
    further on Taiwan.

    For political reasons we may trans-ship of course,
    send arms to Germany or France or Italy officially,
    but with a "Forward To" address. Appearances are
    preserved, politics is served.

    Also, I'm not sure how much Xi cares about the whole
    Ukraine thing - it's largely outside his sphere and
    his focus is on HIS part of the world.

    Xi cares about US intervention in Taiwan, as per our security promises. If
    we break our Ukraine promise, Xi has greater confidence that we don’t have the stomach to support Taiwan either. That’s the connection.

    Anyway, we'll probably see fairly soon ... China has
    practiced at least two blockade exercises now and knows
    it CAN do the job. The trade disturbances MIGHT lead
    Xi to discount the economic impacts unless something
    can be resolved fairly soon.

    But neither Trump or Xi can be seen to blink first ...
    the usual ........

    Trump has already blinked. Question is if Xi will be diplomatic or destroy him.

    -hh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)