• Re: Trump Pegs The Fascism-o-Meter

    From Bradley K. Sherman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 12 15:07:14 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    | As Trump cracks down on immigration, U.S. citizens are
    | among those snared

    |
    | Team Trump Is Gaming Out How to Ship U.S. Citizens to El
    | Salvador
    |
    | Trump officials are talking internally about denaturalizing
    | American citizens -- and potentially sending some to El
    | Salvador
    | ... <https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-el-salvador-us-citizens-denaturalization-1235315975/>

    --bks

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J Carlson@21:1/5 to Bradley K. Sherman on Sat Apr 12 09:49:20 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    On 4/12/2025 8:07 AM, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
    | As Trump cracks down on immigration, U.S. citizens are
    | among those snared

    |
    | Team Trump Is Gaming Out How to Ship U.S. Citizens to El
    | Salvador
    |
    | Trump officials are talking internally about denaturalizing
    | American citizens -- and potentially sending some to El
    | Salvador
    | ... <https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-el-salvador-us-citizens-denaturalization-1235315975/>
    Afroyim v. Rusk says a U.S. citizen cannot be involuntarily stripped of citizenship. The case concerned a naturalized American citizen, a Polish Jew named Beys Afroyim, who also held Israeli citizenship and voted in an Israeli election. There was a provision in the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, aka McCarran-Walter Act, that said an American who voted in a foreign election could lose his citizenship. That provision was stripped following Afroyim v. Rusk.

    There are only very few ways a citizen can be stripped of citizenship. A naturalized citizen can be denaturalized if found to have lied or committed fraud on the application for citizenship (see John Demjanjuk). A natural born American citizen can be stripped of citizenship for certain "expatriating" acts,
    such as serving in the armed forces of another country, or being convicted of treason.

    Without having engaged in some voluntary "expatriating" conduct, a natural born American citizen cannot be stripped of citizenship under the Constitution and U.S. law. If Trump tries this, he will lose. But he *will* try it. Trump is an outlaw.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Borax Man@21:1/5 to J Carlson on Sat Apr 12 22:02:58 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    ["Followup-To:" header set to talk.politics.misc.]
    On 2025-04-12, J Carlson <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/12/2025 8:07 AM, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
    | As Trump cracks down on immigration, U.S. citizens are
    | among those snared

    |
    | Team Trump Is Gaming Out How to Ship U.S. Citizens to El
    | Salvador
    |
    | Trump officials are talking internally about denaturalizing
    | American citizens -- and potentially sending some to El
    | Salvador
    | ...
    <https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-el-salvador-us-citizens-denaturalization-1235315975/>
    Afroyim v. Rusk says a U.S. citizen cannot be involuntarily stripped of citizenship. The case concerned a naturalized American citizen, a Polish Jew named Beys Afroyim, who also held Israeli citizenship and voted in an Israeli election. There was a provision in the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952,
    aka McCarran-Walter Act, that said an American who voted in a foreign election
    could lose his citizenship. That provision was stripped following Afroyim v. Rusk.

    There are only very few ways a citizen can be stripped of citizenship. A naturalized citizen can be denaturalized if found to have lied or committed fraud on the application for citizenship (see John Demjanjuk). A natural born American citizen can be stripped of citizenship for certain "expatriating" acts,
    such as serving in the armed forces of another country, or being convicted of treason.

    Without having engaged in some voluntary "expatriating" conduct, a natural born
    American citizen cannot be stripped of citizenship under the Constitution and U.S. law. If Trump tries this, he will lose. But he *will* try it. Trump is an
    outlaw.



    See the thing here is, in Europe, and the USA, the people may decide
    that they *have* to deport those that came legally too, and they'll want
    the law changed. Some of them may not longer care what a judge, or the
    law, says. They'll want to preserve and protect their nation and
    identity.

    Laws can change, sometimes they have to. There have been plenty of
    times in history where two groups of people, who live under the same administrative entity, have split.

    Be careful in thinking that legalistic argument will stop people, they
    won't if those people feel desperate enough.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From NoBody@21:1/5 to Sherman on Sun Apr 13 10:23:01 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 15:07:14 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Bradley K.
    Sherman) wrote:

    | As Trump cracks down on immigration, U.S. citizens are
    | among those snared

    |
    | Team Trump Is Gaming Out How to Ship U.S. Citizens to El
    | Salvador
    |
    | Trump officials are talking internally about denaturalizing
    | American citizens -- and potentially sending some to El
    | Salvador
    | ...
    <https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-el-salvador-us-citizens-denaturalization-1235315975/>

    --bks

    Scary. More "sources said".

    Eyeroll.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From NoBody@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Apr 13 10:23:57 2025
    On Sat, 12 Apr 2025 22:02:58 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    ["Followup-To:" header set to talk.politics.misc.]
    On 2025-04-12, J Carlson <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/12/2025 8:07 AM, Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
    | As Trump cracks down on immigration, U.S. citizens are
    | among those snared

    |
    | Team Trump Is Gaming Out How to Ship U.S. Citizens to El
    | Salvador
    |
    | Trump officials are talking internally about denaturalizing
    | American citizens -- and potentially sending some to El
    | Salvador
    | ...
    <https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-el-salvador-us-citizens-denaturalization-1235315975/>
    Afroyim v. Rusk says a U.S. citizen cannot be involuntarily stripped of
    citizenship. The case concerned a naturalized American citizen, a Polish Jew >> named Beys Afroyim, who also held Israeli citizenship and voted in an Israeli
    election. There was a provision in the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952,
    aka McCarran-Walter Act, that said an American who voted in a foreign election
    could lose his citizenship. That provision was stripped following Afroyim v. Rusk.

    There are only very few ways a citizen can be stripped of citizenship. A
    naturalized citizen can be denaturalized if found to have lied or committed >> fraud on the application for citizenship (see John Demjanjuk). A natural born
    American citizen can be stripped of citizenship for certain "expatriating" acts,
    such as serving in the armed forces of another country, or being convicted of
    treason.

    Without having engaged in some voluntary "expatriating" conduct, a natural born
    American citizen cannot be stripped of citizenship under the Constitution and
    U.S. law. If Trump tries this, he will lose. But he *will* try it. Trump is an
    outlaw.



    See the thing here is, in Europe, and the USA, the people may decide
    that they *have* to deport those that came legally too, and they'll want
    the law changed. Some of them may not longer care what a judge, or the
    law, says. They'll want to preserve and protect their nation and
    identity.

    Laws can change, sometimes they have to. There have been plenty of
    times in history where two groups of people, who live under the same >administrative entity, have split.

    Be careful in thinking that legalistic argument will stop people, they
    won't if those people feel desperate enough.

    Keep in mind that Bradley posted what amounts to rumors so don't get
    excited about it actually happening.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)