• Re: US Markets WAY Down

    From -hh@21:1/5 to David LaRue on Thu Apr 3 15:11:20 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 4/3/25 12:53, David LaRue wrote:
    c186282 <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    11:30 am EDT

    DOW, down 1393
    NASDAQ, down 902
    S&P, down 225

    Kinda expected, but disappointing too.

    I understand Trump wants to shift manufacturing back
    into the USA - better long-run - but those factories
    can't be built overnight. Might take a couple of years
    to build and tune-in, even for stupid little auto parts.

    Yup. Plus there should also be long term 'infrastructure' commitments,
    so that Enterprise has confidence that policy isn't going to flip-flop.

    Tariffs that, say, started at just 5% and escalated
    by 5% per year ... that'd still get it done yet do
    less shock damage.

    Some, perhaps most, EU makers just CAN'T build US
    factories for their little items. Rolls Royce sure
    as hell ain't - but if you can buy a Rolls then
    you don't care.

    Yesderdays rip-off situation for the USA was ugly,
    but today's 'fixes' are gonna be ugly too. Guess
    things are just like that sometimes ...

    Why should people blame President Trump for tariffs that have
    barely affected anyone yet?

    Because Markets are forward-looking. One doesn't make investments
    because last year's returns are good, because one doesn't reap last
    year's returns: the investments are for *future* returns.

    Plus it is also very plain to see that there are 'less ugly' ways to put
    such a policy in place, such as a 5%/yr progressive as mentioned above.

    It is the idiot stock holders that chose to sell for a lower price.

    Depends. What's the investment strategy is for an Equity that's
    tanking: is it more rational to cut your losses, or try to hold out for
    an unlikely miracle and risk losing everything? The answer includes
    what the investor's risk tolerance is, which varies widely.

    A wise investor knows that most fluctuations are temporary and
    normal. A good investor should be buying the stocks they want if they
    are lowering to a price that is reasonable to them. Most stocks are overpriced to begin with. Be a wise investor. Don't sell just because idiots chose to sell overpriced stocks.

    Unfortunately, while the Market doesn't buy politics or cute mantras:
    it is bluntly all business all the time, because transactions only occur
    if both the seller and buyer believe that they're getting a favorable
    deal (or value): if there isn't this balance, the item's price
    fluctuates until this balance is reached.

    If the stock is worthwhile it will bounce back quickly.

    Only if their core fundamentals haven't been disrupted...right?

    Plus history shows us that these "bounce backs" aren't necessarily
    quick: in some prior crashes, its taken the SP500 15+ years to get back
    to break even. This is why one gets cautioned against Recency Bias.


    -hh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pothead@21:1/5 to -hh on Thu Apr 3 23:05:48 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 2025-04-03, -hh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/3/25 12:53, David LaRue wrote:
    c186282 <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    11:30 am EDT

    DOW, down 1393
    NASDAQ, down 902
    S&P, down 225

    Kinda expected, but disappointing too.

    I understand Trump wants to shift manufacturing back
    into the USA - better long-run - but those factories
    can't be built overnight. Might take a couple of years
    to build and tune-in, even for stupid little auto parts.

    Yup. Plus there should also be long term 'infrastructure' commitments,
    so that Enterprise has confidence that policy isn't going to flip-flop.

    I've stated many times that I am a firm believer in modernizing
    the US infrastructure.
    I was disappointed that Trump did not accomplish this during his first term.

    At the same time, I supported Biden getting a bill passed. At least until
    even he admitted the so called infrastructure bill was really a green new deal in sheep's clothing.

    Water under the bridge.
    Bottom line is the US infrastructure is a disaster. Last week there were sinkholes
    on route 80 a major highway.
    If you have driven across the VZ or GW bridges lately the road is full of potholes.
    Don't even get me started on the WB or Manhattan bridges. On the WB you can literally
    look through the potholes and see the East river.

    Then there is the grid.
    The water, sewer systems.
    Railroad systems that are still in the stone age.
    Airports that are antiquated etc.

    I've traveled to EU a couple of times and their transportation system is
    light years ahead of ours.


    Tariffs that, say, started at just 5% and escalated
    by 5% per year ... that'd still get it done yet do
    less shock damage.

    Some, perhaps most, EU makers just CAN'T build US
    factories for their little items. Rolls Royce sure
    as hell ain't - but if you can buy a Rolls then
    you don't care.

    Yesterdays rip-off situation for the USA was ugly,
    but today's 'fixes' are gonna be ugly too. Guess
    things are just like that sometimes ...

    Why should people blame President Trump for tariffs that have
    barely affected anyone yet?

    Because Markets are forward-looking. One doesn't make investments
    because last year's returns are good, because one doesn't reap last
    year's returns: the investments are for *future* returns.

    The market has been over valued for a long time.
    Maybe things will return to normal?

    Personally I think there is a lot of hi jinx going on behind the scenes
    that manipulate the market.
    The rich always get richer.
    Just one of my conspiracy theories.


    Plus it is also very plain to see that there are 'less ugly' ways to put
    such a policy in place, such as a 5%/yr progressive as mentioned above.

    It is the idiot stock holders that chose to sell for a lower price.

    Depends. What's the investment strategy is for an Equity that's
    tanking: is it more rational to cut your losses, or try to hold out for
    an unlikely miracle and risk losing everything? The answer includes
    what the investor's risk tolerance is, which varies widely.

    A wise investor knows that most fluctuations are temporary and
    normal. A good investor should be buying the stocks they want if they
    are lowering to a price that is reasonable to them. Most stocks are
    overpriced to begin with. Be a wise investor. Don't sell just because
    idiots chose to sell overpriced stocks.

    Unfortunately, while the Market doesn't buy politics or cute mantras:
    it is bluntly all business all the time, because transactions only occur
    if both the seller and buyer believe that they're getting a favorable
    deal (or value): if there isn't this balance, the item's price
    fluctuates until this balance is reached.

    If the stock is worthwhile it will bounce back quickly.

    Only if their core fundamentals haven't been disrupted...right?

    Plus history shows us that these "bounce backs" aren't necessarily
    quick: in some prior crashes, its taken the SP500 15+ years to get back
    to break even. This is why one gets cautioned against Recency Bias.


    -hh


    --
    pothead
    Liberalism Is A Mental Disease
    Treat it accordingly <https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14512427/Doctors-reveal-symptoms-Trump-Derangement-Syndrome-tell-youve-got-it.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From -hh@21:1/5 to pothead on Fri Apr 4 08:44:53 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    On 4/3/25 19:05, pothead wrote:
    On 2025-04-03, -hh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 4/3/25 12:53, David LaRue wrote:
    c186282 <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    11:30 am EDT

    DOW, down 1393
    NASDAQ, down 902
    S&P, down 225

    Kinda expected, but disappointing too.

    I understand Trump wants to shift manufacturing back
    into the USA - better long-run - but those factories
    can't be built overnight. Might take a couple of years
    to build and tune-in, even for stupid little auto parts.

    Yup. Plus there should also be long term 'infrastructure' commitments,
    so that Enterprise has confidence that policy isn't going to flip-flop.

    I've stated many times that I am a firm believer in modernizing
    the US infrastructure.
    I was disappointed that Trump did not accomplish this during his first term.

    It didn't happen because there was "nothing in it" for him personally.
    Keep in mind that he's (at best) a 'Real Estate Guy'.


    At the same time, I supported Biden getting a bill passed. At least until even he admitted the so called infrastructure bill was really a green new deal
    in sheep's clothing.

    Why should there be a problem with green being part of infrastructure improvements? Because from a business standpoint, its already been demonstrated that even without incentives, solar/wind is faster &
    cheaper to build & cheaper lifecycle costs (LCOE) than coal, nuclear,
    natural gas.

    And looking beyond ourselves, we see that for its deployment, the USA is
    behind literally everyone: green delivers over half their power needs
    in Latin America, 47% in Europe & India, 35% in China & Australia, and
    even 22% of Africa's. Meantime, we're at just 21%. Over the past
    decade, the rest of the world has been kicking ass & we're the laggard.


    Water under the bridge.
    Bottom line is the US infrastructure is a disaster. Last week there were sinkholes
    on route 80 a major highway.

    Which started back in December and is yet another example of American
    "lets ignore known problems because fixes take money": the region's
    been known to have had tons of abandoned mines & sinkhole openings
    thereof for literally decades. This one affecting I-80 is from two
    known abandoned mines from the 1700-1800s that no one cared anything
    about when the highway was built in the 1960s & is now finally coming
    home to roost.

    But wait, there's more. Here's a map, right at the I-80 location: <https://maps.app.goo.gl/ixBFYmincXrybPVe6>

    Look at it just south (down) of I-80, west (left) of Rt-15 to find the
    "Knotty Pine Pub". Now move west (left) across the unnamed street, and
    before the next street (West Morris Greenway): see that empty lot with
    a pond in it? Well, that pond is a surface sinkhole of an abandoned
    mine shaft that's now water filled. Last, see the "Avalon Wharton"
    between it and I-80? That's a fancier apartment complex built in 2012
    ... and reportedly is now seeing foundation cracks opening up. Golly,
    wonder what those could be from?


    If you have driven across the VZ or GW bridges lately the road is full of potholes.
    Don't even get me started on the WB or Manhattan bridges. On the WB you can literally
    look through the potholes and see the East river.

    The US has a huge infrastructure deficit in our bridges. I can recall
    hearing a US Civil Engineering assessment from ~20 years ago that said
    that something like 90% were deficient in maintenance. Just goes to
    show us that we should have been increasing our gasoline tax rates 3+
    decades ago.

    Then there is the grid.
    The water, sewer systems.
    Railroad systems that are still in the stone age.
    Airports that are antiquated etc.

    Yup. Airports are a major beneficiary of public transportation funds,
    which comes down to policy choices.

    I've traveled to EU a couple of times and their transportation system is light years ahead of ours.

    Just wait until you go to Japan.

    In 2023, I had a stint on the Hiroshima - Kyoto “Shinkansen” line. The route is ~350km, in a scheduled 96 minutes which is an average speed of
    218kph (137mph) - - BUT -- that’s before accounting for the three (3)
    stops en route which take ~2 minutes each. Subtracting those off, its
    350km in 90 minutes which means at least an average open country running
    speed of 233kph (145mph) including the time spent
    accelerating/decelerating for those three station stops en route.


    Tariffs that, say, started at just 5% and escalated
    by 5% per year ... that'd still get it done yet do
    less shock damage.

    Some, perhaps most, EU makers just CAN'T build US
    factories for their little items. Rolls Royce sure
    as hell ain't - but if you can buy a Rolls then
    you don't care.

    Yesterdays rip-off situation for the USA was ugly,
    but today's 'fixes' are gonna be ugly too. Guess
    things are just like that sometimes ...

    Why should people blame President Trump for tariffs that have
    barely affected anyone yet?

    Because Markets are forward-looking. One doesn't make investments
    because last year's returns are good, because one doesn't reap last
    year's returns: the investments are for *future* returns.

    The market has been over valued for a long time.
    Maybe things will return to normal?

    The post-2008 period of extremely low interest rates resulted in a big
    chunk of "TINA" (There Is No Alternative) investment in the Market,
    which drove up evaluations (even before deliberate manipulation).

    The more recent rate hikes have helped to normalized some of this
    behavior, but its probably going to take the retirement of a good chunk
    of Gen X'ers and having them become less aggressive (greedy? desperate?)
    by transitioning to a more traditional Stock:Bond ratio that better
    aligns with the traditional "Rule of 100" (which would put them at a 40%
    Stock allocation by age 60).


    Personally I think there is a lot of hi jinx going on behind the scenes
    that manipulate the market.
    The rich always get richer.
    Just one of my conspiracy theories.

    It is a correct one. A friend who's done some statistical dabbling in
    this area with a DIY daytrader program has opined that ~30% of prices
    are from manipulation ... this was because their app is sophisticated
    enough to be able to detect the program trading logic of large market participants. He's not made a lot of money from it yet (just ~$80K)
    because he's not been able to refine it down to only predicting just one
    day in advance instead of 2-3 days in advance.

    -hh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rudy Canoza@21:1/5 to -hh on Sat Apr 5 09:49:13 2025
    XPost: alt.politics.usa, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.trump.is.a.filthy.lying.insurrectionist.and.rapist.and.shitbag
    XPost: alt.politics

    On 4/5/2025 7:40 AM, -hh wrote:
    On 4/5/25 10:29, Skeeter wrote:
    In article <vsrcuc$22ld0$[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...

    On 4/4/25 10:09, Skeeter wrote:
    In article <vsn715$1uk60$[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...

    On 3/4/25 11:18, -hh wrote:
    I agree with most of your comments. I would add that the market
    was overpriced as well.  As for the trade unfairness:  It is a >>>>>>> lot like raising children.  If you don't pay attention and
    correct the problems, it will be more painful later down the road. >>>>>>
    So your childcare solution is that when you found that Johnny
    stole 50 cents from his sister, your solution is to strap him
    onto the kitchen table and extract his kidney to sell?

    Point here is one of proportionality and being deliberative,
    which this why this policy is a catastrophic 'train wreck' failure. >>>>>>
    In the meantime, the USA has a huge trade surplus with the rest
    of the world for Services ... which Trump is avoiding counting.
    Don't be at all surprised if EU/rest target these for
    countermeasures.


    I heard we are slapping tariffs on penguins and a US military base.

    You morons will believe anything.

    Whereas the MAGA Cult tries to deny everything.

    "Tiny Australian outposts, including some with no people, targeted by
    Trump tariffs"

    All belong to Australia. No issues.

    Yes, its because they belong to Australia that this is being pointed out:  why
    did these uninhabited islands got singled out for any Tariff, and why at a much
    higher rate than Australia's?

    Not true. Those two non-countries were singled out because Trump and everyone working for him is a fucking moron, but McDonald Island, Heard Island and Australia all are being hit with the 10% minimum increase.


    The simple answer is that Trump has made yet another royal fuckup ... but can you actually bring yourself to admit that here & now, in public?
    Skeeter-Shit is a walking fuck-up. His entire life is one massive fuck-up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Skeeter@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 5 11:22:11 2025
    XPost: alt.politics.usa, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.trump.is.a.filthy.lying.insurrectionist.and.rapist.and.shitbag
    XPost: alt.politics

    In article <dadIP.356865$[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...

    On 4/5/2025 7:40 AM, -hh wrote:
    On 4/5/25 10:29, Skeeter wrote:
    In article <vsrcuc$22ld0$[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...

    On 4/4/25 10:09, Skeeter wrote:
    In article <vsn715$1uk60$[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...

    On 3/4/25 11:18, -hh wrote:
    I agree with most of your comments. I would add that the market >>>>>>> was overpriced as well.� As for the trade unfairness:� It is a >>>>>>> lot like raising children.� If you don't pay attention and
    correct the problems, it will be more painful later down the road. >>>>>>
    So your childcare solution is that when you found that Johnny
    stole 50 cents from his sister, your solution is to strap him
    onto the kitchen table and extract his kidney to sell?

    Point here is one of proportionality and being deliberative,
    which this why this policy is a catastrophic 'train wreck' failure. >>>>>>
    In the meantime, the USA has a huge trade surplus with the rest
    of the world for Services ... which Trump is avoiding counting.
    Don't be at all surprised if EU/rest target these for
    countermeasures.


    I heard we are slapping tariffs on penguins and a US military base. >>>>
    You morons will believe anything.

    Whereas the MAGA Cult tries to deny everything.

    "Tiny Australian outposts, including some with no people, targeted by
    Trump tariffs"

    All belong to Australia. No issues.

    Yes, its because they belong to Australia that this is being pointed out:� why
    did these uninhabited islands got singled out for any Tariff, and why at a much
    higher rate than Australia's?

    Not true. Those two non-countries were singled out because Trump and everyone working for him is a fucking moron, but McDonald Island, Heard Island and Australia all are being hit with the 10% minimum increase.

    Covering all bases. Nothing wrong with that.


    The simple answer is that Trump has made yet another royal fuckup ... but can
    you actually bring yourself to admit that here & now, in public?
    Skeeter-Shit is a walking fuck-up. His entire life is one massive fuck-up.

    I own you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From -hh@21:1/5 to Rudy Canoza on Sat Apr 5 13:46:18 2025
    XPost: alt.politics.usa, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.trump.is.a.filthy.lying.insurrectionist.and.rapist.and.shitbag
    XPost: alt.politics

    On 4/5/25 12:49, Rudy Canoza wrote:
    On 4/5/2025 7:40 AM, -hh wrote:
    On 4/5/25 10:29, Skeeter wrote:
    In article <vsrcuc$22ld0$[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...

    On 4/4/25 10:09, Skeeter wrote:
    In article <vsn715$1uk60$[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...

    On 3/4/25 11:18, -hh wrote:
    I agree with most of your comments. I would add that the market >>>>>>>> was overpriced as well.  As for the trade unfairness:  It is a >>>>>>>> lot like raising children.  If you don't pay attention and
    correct the problems, it will be more painful later down the road. >>>>>>>
    So your childcare solution is that when you found that Johnny
    stole 50 cents from his sister, your solution is to strap him
    onto the kitchen table and extract his kidney to sell?

    Point here is one of proportionality and being deliberative,
    which this why this policy is a catastrophic 'train wreck' failure. >>>>>>>
    In the meantime, the USA has a huge trade surplus with the rest
    of the world for Services ... which Trump is avoiding counting.
    Don't be at all surprised if EU/rest target these for
    countermeasures.


    I heard we are slapping tariffs on penguins and a US military base. >>>>>
    You morons will believe anything.

    Whereas the MAGA Cult tries to deny everything.

    "Tiny Australian outposts, including some with no people, targeted by
    Trump tariffs"

    All belong to Australia. No issues.

    Yes, its because they belong to Australia that this is being pointed
    out:  why did these uninhabited islands got singled out for any
    Tariff, and why at a much higher rate than Australia's?

    Not true. Those two non-countries were singled out because Trump and
    everyone working for him is a fucking moron, but McDonald Island, Heard Island and Australia all are being hit with the 10% minimum increase.

    Ah, good catch: it was Australia's Norfolk Island that got the 29%.

    <https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-tariffs-heard-mcdonald-island-norfolk-australia/>

    -hh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)