• Re: Proof That Musk Knows Nothing About Software

    From Chris Ahlstrom@21:1/5 to Bradley K. Sherman on Fri Mar 28 11:04:02 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    Bradley K. Sherman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

    |
    | DOGE Plans to Rebuild SSA Codebase In Months, Risking
    | Benefits and System Collapse
    |
    | Social Security systems contain tens of millions of lines
    | of code written in COBOL, an archaic programming language.
    | Safely rewriting that code would take years--DOGE wants it
    | done in months.
    | ... <https://www.wired.com/story/doge-rebuild-social-security-administration-cobol-benefits/>

    But ... but... he's the richest man in the world!

    https://www.reddit.com/r/cobol/comments/wvw9zs/how_long_does_it_take_to_learn_cobol/?rdt=65050

    I am still learning. The COBOL part isn't that difficult. It is all the
    stuff you need to run the COBOL program that is a PITA to learn. I hate JCL
    with the fire of a 1000 suns. Every time I think I have it, something else
    is required that I am supposed to just magically know.

    . . .

    Cobol dev here . The core bits for a batch program with JCL are a stock
    standard pattern . Read file/S in record by record ,process to transform
    and apply business rules , write out files record by record , . Change to
    key look up with vsam, or add some sql concepts with db2 . Build multiple
    functional programs to execute sequentially . Test functionality . Never
    start writing a routine from scratch - use another as a template . And a
    debugger is your best friend

    Short answer - if u know program concepts , 3-6 months . It’s the 3GL ness
    that will get you

    --
    MIPS:
    Meaningless Indicator of Processor Speed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bradley K. Sherman@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 10:54:13 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    |
    | DOGE Plans to Rebuild SSA Codebase In Months, Risking
    | Benefits and System Collapse
    |
    | Social Security systems contain tens of millions of lines
    | of code written in COBOL, an archaic programming language.
    | Safely rewriting that code would take years--DOGE wants it
    | done in months.
    | ... <https://www.wired.com/story/doge-rebuild-social-security-administration-cobol-benefits/>

    --bks

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Kent Navarro@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 19:22:20 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    | DOGE Plans to Rebuild SSA Codebase In Months, Risking
    | Benefits and System Collapse
    |
    | Social Security systems contain tens of millions of lines
    | of code written in COBOL, an archaic programming language.
    | Safely rewriting that code would take years--DOGE wants it
    | done in months.
    | ...
    <https://www.wired.com/story/doge-rebuild-social-security-administration-c >obol-benefits/>

    --bks


    Move fast and break things. They'll be sending $billions to Russian
    veterans over in Moscow.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Siri Cruz@21:1/5 to Chris Ahlstrom on Fri Mar 28 13:47:07 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    On 28/3/25 8:04, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    I am still learning. The COBOL part isn't that difficult. It is all the
    stuff you need to run the COBOL program that is a PITA to learn. I hate JCL
    with the fire of a 1000 suns. Every time I think I have it, something else
    is required that I am supposed to just magically know.

    You can use COBBLE without IBM. Like FORTRASH Unix compilers are
    available.

    <https://gnucobol.sourceforge.io/>

    --
    Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-999. Disavowed. Denied. @
    'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
    The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 4.0 / \
    of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Siri Cruz@21:1/5 to Chris Ahlstrom on Wed Apr 2 07:53:47 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    On 2/4/25 4:19, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    Gronk wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

    NoBody wrote:

    <snip>

    How do you know what Musk knows about software? Did it occur to you
    that it could and should be replaced by something other than Cobol?

    It has also occurred to SSA. In 2016:

    <snip>

    https://www.fastcompany.com/91278597/elon-musk-doge-cobol-language
    Elon Musk’s DOGE team may need a crash
    course in COBOL

    "Crash" is the operative word here.

    As Musk’s young engineers push to ‘modernize’
    government systems, they may find themselves
    bogged down in a decades-old programing language.

    They'll use AI. How will that work out? :-D


    The Terminator: In three years, Cyberdyne will become the
    largest supplier of military computer systems. All stealth
    bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers, becoming fully
    unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record.
    The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes online August
    4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense.
    Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware
    at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to
    pull the plug.
    Sarah Connor: Skynet fights back.
    The Terminator: Yes. It launches its missiles against the
    targets in Russia.
    John Connor: Why attack Russia? Aren't they our friends now?
    The Terminator: Because Skynet knows that the Russian
    counterattack will eliminate its enemies over here.

    --
    Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-999. Disavowed. Denied. @
    'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
    The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 4.0 / \
    of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gronk@21:1/5 to NoBody on Mon Apr 7 23:41:06 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    NoBody wrote:
    On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 13:02:13 -0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Bradley K.
    Sherman) wrote:
    Kremlin Girl <[email protected]> wrote:
    |
    | DOGE Plans to Rebuild SSA Codebase In Months, Risking
    | Benefits and System Collapse
    |
    | Social Security systems contain tens of millions of lines
    | of code written in COBOL, an archaic programming language.
    | Safely rewriting that code would take years--DOGE wants it
    | done in months.
    ...
    Once again your story doesn't match your headline.
    ...

    That comment proves that Kremlin Girl knows nothing about software.

    Since you dishonestly snipped it, I'll ask again what you ignored:

    How do you know what Musk knows about software? Did it occur to you
    that it could and should be replaced by something other than Cobol?

    They think that 60 million plus lines of code can
    be converted in 2 or 3 months...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gronk@21:1/5 to -hh on Mon Apr 7 23:52:05 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    -hh wrote:
    On 3/31/25 02:36, Governor Swill wrote:
    On Sun, 30 Mar 2025 23:49:42 -0400, -hh
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 3/30/25 21:06, Siri Cruz wrote:
    On 30/3/25 6:46, NoBody wrote:
    Did it occur to you
    that it could and should  be replaced by something other than Cobol? >>>>
    Thus you show you know nothing about software.


    Its more that they're profoundly ignorant about Project Management and
    scoping ...

    ... in the context of legacy software that's had decades worth(s) of
    updates, revisions, patches, etc ... not all of which received perfect
    documentation.

    The net sum makes it not impossible to replace, but highly
    time-intensive to fully document every last millimeter and thus,
    extremely expensive:  the pragmatic business solution has been that it
    is cheaper to just keep the status quo running and keep on updating it.

    What would it cost to upgrade the govt systems to modern standards?

    That's an interesting question.

    Answer: a lot ;)

    https://www.cbpp.org/blog/setting-the-record-straight-on-social-security

    Only 0.1 percent of Social Security benefits are paid to people over 100
    years old. DOGE head Elon Musk has been circulating a table he claims
    shows Social Security beneficiaries at very old ages, but he is grossly mischaracterizing its contents. These numbers appear to be drawn from
    SSA’s Numident database, a record of every Social Security number
    application since the program started. The Numident typically does not
    contain death dates for people born before 1920 — before Social Security
    was established and long before electronic records were kept. A 2023 OIG
    report explains that “almost none” of the people born before 1920 in
    this dataset are being paid benefits. As a result, SSA explained that
    adding death dates to these very old records would be “costly to
    implement [and] would be of little benefit.”



    First part is the inference that COBOL isn't a "modern standard" because
    it is still being very widely used in Fortune 500 Enterprises.

    COBOL (and Fortran) is still under development.

    Second part is the term "upgrade": question that needs answering here is
    to be able to articulate ... and quantify ... just what tangible
    business benefit is from the change.  That includes is cost & ROI times.

    Welllll... Cobol Cowboys are in high demand. More would be
    needed so more would be needed not only for maintenance
    but for adding new code


    https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/minecraft-server-made-to-run-on-pre-x86-cobol-coding-language

    This legacy programming language can still be seen in modern mainframes
    and is so popular in the private and government sectors alike that COBOL
    coders remained in high demand at the peak of 2020's unemployment wave.


    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/new-jersey-cobol-coders-mainframes-coronavirus
    New Jersey Pleas for COBOL Coders for 40-Year-Old Mainframes Amid
    Coronavirus Crunch
    last updated April 6, 2020


    https://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/news/2025/03/21/what-is-cobol-and-why-should-it-matter-to-louisiana-residents/82598521007/
    What is COBOL, and why should it matter to Louisiana residents in wake
    of OMV outages?
    March 21, 2025
    Following the Louisiana Office of Motor Vehicles' outage on March 20,
    Gov. Jeff Landry declared a State of Emergency Friday morning.

    In the executive order, Landry extended the expiration date and
    delinquent fees of Class E driver’s licenses for up to 30 days after the license's expiration date.

    OMV announced on its website on March 20 that the Louisiana Office of Technology Services was investigating a frequent intermittent outage
    affecting the COBOL mainframe.

    According to the governor’s order, the COBOL mainframe has resulted in prolonged wait times for the public, service outages and security vulnerabilities, impacting operations across the state.

    According to IBM, many government and private organizations use COBOL to
    run financial, administrative, and business applications. As of April
    2024, COBOL was the foundation forfor more than 40 percent of all online banking systems, 80 percent of of in-person credit card transactions,
    and 95 percent of ATM transactions, and power systems that generated up
    to $3 billion in commerce per day.

    The Louisiana OMV's computer system is also COBOL based.




    Reportedly, the SSA had a five year modernization effort in the late
    2010's ... one should go read what happened.  It probably failed for the same reasons why Fortune 100 attempts to replace COBOL have failed.

    Cost. See above. And as more time goes by people with
    the skills become fewer.

    Is it easier or harder to hack legacy systems?

    Depends.  One can probably argue that a constantly maintained legacy
    system has had more debugging.  Likewise, being written in an "old"
    language can have some security-by-obscurity elements to it too.

    Hmmm. How many hackers and such know COBOL? ;)

    Can you imagine our leaders being responsible enough to realize the
    inefficiency of having such a patchwork?  I can't.  Not since Clinton.

    Because this isn't above being inefficient: they've realized that they
    can't easily mine the SSA database in its current form, so they're
    trying to get paid to change it to make it easier for them to steal.

    GASP! Their motives aren't... aren't... pure?

    Then again, a fragmented network using thousands of languages and
    millions of protocols might be easier to hide in.

    Yup.

    Or get into... "Hey Fred, what the hell is this piece
    written in?" "Uh, PL/I?"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gronk@21:1/5 to Chris Ahlstrom on Mon Apr 7 23:53:39 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.politics

    Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    Gronk wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
    NoBody wrote:
    <snip>

    How do you know what Musk knows about software? Did it occur to you
    that it could and should be replaced by something other than Cobol?

    It has also occurred to SSA. In 2016:

    <snip>

    https://www.fastcompany.com/91278597/elon-musk-doge-cobol-language
    Elon Musk’s DOGE team may need a crash
    course in COBOL

    "Crash" is the operative word here.

    As Musk’s young engineers push to ‘modernize’
    government systems, they may find themselves
    bogged down in a decades-old programing language.

    They'll use AI. How will that work out? :-D

    Either "By Your Command" or "Why do you resist? We
    only wish to raise the quality of life for all species."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)