XPost: alt.history, alt.politics, alt.science

https://greekreporter.com/2025/02/28/iron-age-india/

A groundbreaking archaeological discovery in southern
India has reignited debate over the origins of the Iron
Age, challenging long-held beliefs about early iron
production.

Excavations across six sites in Tamil Nadu—Adichchanallur,
Sivagalai, Mayiladumparai, Kilnamandi, Mangadu and
Thelunganur—have uncovered iron objects dating back 5,000
to 5,400 years (2,953–3,345 BCE). If confirmed, this could
make Tamil Nadu home to some of the world’s earliest known
iron production.

For decades, historians believed large-scale iron production
began around the 13th century BCE in present-day Turkey.

At one site, archaeologists discovered more than 85 iron
objects—including knives, arrowheads, rings, chisels, axes
and swords—inside and outside burial urns. Dating tests
conducted in five laboratories worldwide confirmed
their antiquity.

. . .

Well, it IS a very ancient ongoing civ.

Wars/plagues/conquests in much of the world
destroy EVERYTHING higher-level and it's
necessary to start all over. India has had
many such events, but for whatever reasons
they are less destructive to 'knowledge'.

So sure, iron-making skills could be very
ancient in India - apparently ARE given the
numbers/types/circumstances of the objects
discovered and dated. Charcoal fire would
have been used, leaving residues that are
good for carbon dating. There are other
methods too.

The famous 'Damascus steel' of the Islamic
empire - especially strong and sharp - seems
to have come from India, ingots acquired
through trade. The trick was what one place
lined its furnaces with ... sea-shell mortar.
The sea shells in that area contain the
element vanadium. Even tiny quantities can
vastly improve the qualities of steel. The
makers didn't really know about vanadium
or where it was coming from - but it DID let
them sell their steel for a lot of money.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.history, alt.politics

On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 01:30:57 -0500, c186282 wrote:

https://greekreporter.com/2025/02/28/iron-age-india/

A groundbreaking archaeological discovery in southern
India has reignited debate over the origins of the Iron
Age, challenging long-held beliefs about early iron
production.

Stranger still, there appears to have been at least one nuclear
"accident" in India in those times. Gets some mention(?) as
an event in the Vedas (an' mebbe Upanishads) possibly result
of placer concentration of beach deposits of Thorium.
Unfortunately it can also happen without human effort: https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/meet-oklo-the-earths-two-billion-year-old-only-known-natural-nuclear-reactor

Dhu

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.politics, alt.science, alt.history

On 3/1/25 1:01 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:

On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 01:30:57 -0500, c186282 wrote:

https://greekreporter.com/2025/02/28/iron-age-india/

A groundbreaking archaeological discovery in southern
India has reignited debate over the origins of the Iron
Age, challenging long-held beliefs about early iron
production.

Stranger still, there appears to have been at least one nuclear
"accident" in India in those times. Gets some mention(?) as
an event in the Vedas (an' mebbe Upanishads) possibly result
of placer concentration of beach deposits of Thorium.
Unfortunately it can also happen without human effort: https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/meet-oklo-the-earths-two-billion-year-old-only-known-natural-nuclear-reactor

Nuclear power/weapons requires a large and well-
developed sci/tech/engineering infrastructure.
That'd leave plenty of evidence even 5000 years on.

The flying-saucer nutters make claims, but can't
quite back it up. Perhaps a volcanic event under
a uranium or thorium ore location ? Meteor hit
ON such a site ?

As for the Earth ... it's not so much a 'reactor'
as a thermally insulating shell over a bunch of
U238 left over from the formation. Decays slow
but does make heat - and our crust keeps most of
that heat from escaping. Probably why the planet
is still 'alive'.

Anyway, lucky nobody figured out nuclear weapons
in the ancient days ... or even the 1800s-AD.
The conquering mindset would have made that BAD.
We're BARELY holding against global irradiation
even now.

However iron THAT far back does speak well for
Indian civ. One or two other very old iron items
have been found over the years, but THIS discovery
indicates a broader iron-based technology long
before it was "supposed" to exist. Alas it seems
the SCALE of the industry remained relatively
small - no steel structures or reinforcements
used over large regions. It didn't "jump-start"
a big tech/engineering society like in Europe.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.politics, alt.history

On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 20:09:04 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Nuclear power/weapons requires a large and well-
developed sci/tech/engineering infrastructure.
That'd leave plenty of evidence even 5000 years on.

A bunch of neolithic rocket scientists* with gold panning
equip is all that was needed. This wasn't a "Nuclear Weapon"
it was heavy dust that shone like an electric Rainbow when
you pushed enough of it together into a pile. There are
isotopic remnants of the "incident".

*bright boys at the end of the stone age.

also, WTF is alt.science?

Dhu

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.politics, alt.science, alt.history

On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 20:09:04 -0500, c186282 wrote:

On 3/1/25 1:01 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:

On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 01:30:57 -0500, c186282 wrote:

https://greekreporter.com/2025/02/28/iron-age-india/

A groundbreaking archaeological discovery in southern
India has reignited debate over the origins of the Iron
Age, challenging long-held beliefs about early iron
production.

Stranger still, there appears to have been at least one nuclear
"accident" in India in those times. Gets some mention(?) as
an event in the Vedas (an' mebbe Upanishads) possibly result
of placer concentration of beach deposits of Thorium.
Unfortunately it can also happen without human effort:
https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/meet-oklo-the-earths-two-billion-year-old-only-known-natural-nuclear-reactor

Nuclear power/weapons requires a large and well-
developed sci/tech/engineering infrastructure.
That'd leave plenty of evidence even 5000 years on.

The flying-saucer nutters make claims, but can't
quite back it up. Perhaps a volcanic event under
a uranium or thorium ore location ? Meteor hit
ON such a site ?

Umnm, no. These things can occur without engineers or other majicks.

looky here:

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/meet-oklo-the-earths-two-billion-year-old-only-known-natural-nuclear-reacto

All this happened with placer deposition, something that occurs
without little green men or the intervention of Archangels.

But what happened in India 5000 years ago may have more relation
to the Smiling Buddha 50 years ago than Archangels: same smart
guys did it without any foreign (or XtrT) "assistance" or knowhow
50 years ago at Pokhran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiling_Buddha
Dhu

As for the Earth ... it's not so much a 'reactor'
as a thermally insulating shell over a bunch of
U238 left over from the formation. Decays slow
but does make heat - and our crust keeps most of
that heat from escaping. Probably why the planet
is still 'alive'.

Anyway, lucky nobody figured out nuclear weapons
in the ancient days ... or even the 1800s-AD.
The conquering mindset would have made that BAD.
We're BARELY holding against global irradiation
even now.

However iron THAT far back does speak well for
Indian civ. One or two other very old iron items
have been found over the years, but THIS discovery
indicates a broader iron-based technology long
before it was "supposed" to exist. Alas it seems
the SCALE of the industry remained relatively
small - no steel structures or reinforcements
used over large regions. It didn't "jump-start"
a big tech/engineering society like in Europe.

--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.politics, alt.history, alt.science

On 3/2/25 9:02 AM, Dhu on Gate wrote:

On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 20:09:04 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Nuclear power/weapons requires a large and well-
developed sci/tech/engineering infrastructure.
That'd leave plenty of evidence even 5000 years on.

A bunch of neolithic rocket scientists* with gold panning
equip is all that was needed. This wasn't a "Nuclear Weapon"
it was heavy dust that shone like an electric Rainbow when
you pushed enough of it together into a pile. There are
isotopic remnants of the "incident".

*bright boys at the end of the stone age.

Not as if thorium comes in little pellets with
a 'T' writ on them. It doesn't shine in the dark.
There'd be nothing to make it stand out in a
sifting pan. Also, by the time you started to
get a lot of it together you'd die of radiation
poisoning.

The old gas mantles - common in 'camping lanterns' -
reportedly had over 200mg of thorium in them because
it is efficient at emitting light when heated.
Despite the quantity, the mantles do not glow in
the dark by themselves. They can be dangerous
to the health however and have been phased out.
Solar-rechargable LED lamps have mostly eliminated
the need for gas lamps.

So I'll stick with 'random natural concentration' in
the case you mentioned.

As to why elements tend to be found in high
concentrations here and there - I've heard
speculations, but ....

Oh, alt.science is where you won't be expected to
produce three pages of equations and cites, for
science-y stuff but not super-formal.

How to produce iron was surely an accident from
pottery-firing. Somebody tried to make pots from
some extra-red mud and got the temperature too high.
Smelting tin could have been a similar accident,
but with inadequate oxygen. No space aliens needed.

In any case, the ancients were smart and very
observant and learned to make max use of what
they had. I sometimes wonder if IQ has decreased
since those days.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.politics, alt.history

On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 19:31:19 -0500, c186282 wrote:

a 'T' writ on them. It doesn't shine in the dark.

They were just panning for "heavies": no little "T" needed,
as well as the presence of various other isotopes on some beach
bar in Malabar or on the Saraswati...

Dhu


--
Je suis Canadien. Ce n'est pas Francais ou Anglais.
C'est une esp`ece de sauvage: ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco;-)
Duncan Patton a Campbell

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)