XPost: alt.food.vegan, alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, talk.politics.animals XPost: alt.philosophy.debate

[email protected] writes:

How about the mass experiencing of life by billions of animals who
only live because they are raised by humans?

You mean those pigs who live in cages, forced to sit in their own
excrements, have barely any room to move, and have been mutilated
without anesthesia by having had their teeth grinded or their tails cut
off?

Or do you mean the cows, who get raped, separated from their babies, and
killed at 25% their average maximum age because their milk production
lowers?

Or do you mean the chickens, which have been bred to be so fat that they
cannot even stand and that they can barely breathe. They just sit in
their own excrement all day, with burn wounds on their flesh from their excrement's acidity, desperately gasping for air.

These animals are the norm. If you want to avoid supporting this, then
you cannot go to McDonalds, KFC, most support markets, or virtually any restaurant for your meat. You basically have to live like a vegan except
that you would get meat from some farmer whom you have personally
verified* if you want to consume that "ethical" meat. And in my
experience, no in that brings up your argument does that. The animal
torture industry seems to be supported almost entirely by people who
claim that they are against the animal torture industry.


Also, your argument leads to an absurdity. You argue that it is good for
a species to be bred into slavery and be killed at an early age because
that leads to more of them getting to live. But if that is so good for a species, then why not do it for the human animals? Certainly, parents
will be able to grant life to more children if they kill their children
at age 20 and then sell their organs, using the money to raise another
child. Why would this be an advantage for non-human animals, but not for
human animals?


*Most animal protection labels such as "free-range" are
nonsense, in fact, the chicken example described how free-range chickens
live! You cannot trust authorities as they normally get bouht and used
as marketing tools for fooling the customers (or helping them to fool themselves, as people often try to be ignorant in these matters).

We know that they don't. Do animals need to be raised so we
can eat them in order for those billions of animals to live? We know
that they do. We also know that no animals are raised so that
people can eat vegetables.

See above. Why not kill of humans, sell their organs, and use
the profit from that to breed more humans into existence? Think of all
the millions of humans that are being deprived of life because we are
not doing this to humans. If depriving a non-existing non-hman animal of
life is so bad that we need to torture and kill to grant life to as many
of them as possible, then certainly depriving humans of life is much
worse! So in that case, we certainly need to grant humans the same
favour as we grant non-human animals, and we need to start killing
adolescents and use the profit from selling their organs to breed
millions more humans into existance.

People can go to local farmers today and buy animal products from
animals they feel have decent lives. That way they could contribute
to decent lives for farm animals. They can't do it by being veg*n. By
eating grass raised beef, people contribute to less deaths than by
eating tofu. By drinking grass raised milk, people contribute to less
deaths than by drinking soy or rice milk.

No one does that. Virtually all meat that people eat is just random meat
from tortured animals. If people started checking for animal well-being
then they would have to live like vegans, refusing virtually all meat
that is sold and only being personally verified and very expensive meat.

Besides, every farm is local to someone. Locality to were
you happen to be means nothing. Most of the torturing is done on the
farm, none of the torturing is done on the way to the customer, as by
then the animals have typically already been slaughtered and it is
merely chopped of parts from their corpses that are being transported.

Also, did you know that in order to make farms many forests have been destroyed? Especially the food of these animals. Most of the grown soy
goes to farm animals, and soy production is a huge contributor to
dforestation. We are destroying the habitats, and by that lives, of free animals just so we can make room for the animals that we torture and
kill for profit and entertainment.

This may be a shocker to you, but animals in farm are raised solely for
profit, and their corpses are consumed solely for entertainment, no one
in the chain cares for animals, no one checks for "ethical" meat and if
people did then the animal industry would collapse because they are now
so big that they need to torture animals in order to be efficient and profitable enough to sustain themselves. They torturing of animals is
100% necessary for us to keep consuming the huge amounts of meat that we consume. If we stop torturing animals and let them graye freely before
we violently kill them for our own pleasure and profit, then the meat
price would multiply many times over.

Your ethical meat is a fantasy that does not exist and cannot
exist. Meat from animals is tortured, it has to be that way because it
is most profitable so corporation who do it that way will always win out
on the market. People want cheap meat, they do not want to spend an
entire day verifying where their meat comes from only to then buy it at
6 times the normal price and to never be able to eat meat anywhere else
(like in restaurants). You are living a fantasy. Step out of it. Watch
footage of the big players where most meat comes from, like Moy Park (if
you are in West Europe) or one of the big player in wherever you
live. Get out of your fantasy land and step back into reality.


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