• Re: Isaac Asimov was a writer and professor of biochemistry at Boston U

    From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to israel socratus on Fri Jan 27 12:47:08 2023
    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!” (I found it!) but “That’s funny …” /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but
    I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in biochemistry worth a damn.


    --
    athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?w5bDtiBUaWli?=@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Fri Jan 27 04:05:23 2023
    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 13:50:06 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!” (I found it!) but “That’s funny …” /
    Isaac Asimov /
    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I have seen it more often used in Bob Casanova's sig.

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  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 27 03:25:25 2023
    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!” (I found it!) but “That’s funny …” / Isaac Asimov /

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 27 14:22:38 2023
    On 2023-01-27 12:05:23 +0000, Öö Tiib said:

    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 13:50:06 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:>> > The most
    exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new> >
    discoveries,> > is not “Eureka!” (I found it!) but “That’s funny …” />
    Isaac Asimov /
    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that>
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.>I have seen it more often
    used in Bob Casanova's sig.

    Maybe I got it wrong. I should have checked, but I didn't. In any case
    Socratus should know that it has come up very many times.

    --
    athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 27 09:52:17 2023
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:47:08 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!�? (I found it!) but “That’s funny …�? /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I've used it as my sig since April of 2013.

    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but
    I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in >biochemistry worth a damn.

    Research is nice, but he did more to advance the knowledge
    of science among laymen such as myself than almost any
    researcher.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 27 09:58:26 2023
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 04:05:23 -0800 (PST), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by �� Tiib <[email protected]>:

    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 13:50:06 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not �Eureka!� (I found it!) but �That�s funny �� /
    Isaac Asimov /
    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I have seen it more often used in Bob Casanova's sig.

    Yep; thanks. I switched from my previous one...

    "Evidence confirming an observation is
    evidence that the observation is wrong."

    - McNameless

    ...in April of 2013 when McNameless (McCoy? Whatever...)
    became no longer well-known here.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From erik simpson@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Fri Jan 27 08:55:29 2023
    On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 5:25:06 AM UTC-8, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2023-01-27 12:05:23 +0000, Öö Tiib said:

    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 13:50:06 UTC+2, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:>> > The most
    exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new> >
    discoveries,> > is not “Eureka!” (I found it!) but “That’s funny …” />
    Isaac Asimov /
    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that>
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.>I have seen it more often
    used in Bob Casanova's sig.
    Maybe I got it wrong. I should have checked, but I didn't. In any case Socratus should know that it has come up very many times.
    --
    athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

    Socratus moves in an orbit of very high eccentricity. It isn't at all clear what things
    he sees.

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  • From jillery@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jan 27 12:29:11 2023
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:47:08 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!� (I found it!) but “That’s funny …� /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.


    I wish it was me, but it isn't. I hope you haven't fallen for some
    trolls' claims that Casanova and I are sock puppets.


    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but
    I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in >biochemistry worth a damn.


    I imagine writing 300+ books and countless articles might have taken
    most of his time. I recall Asimov did write about some chemical
    compound he claimed was so soluble, it dissolved even before it
    touched the water. This led him to speculate if that were true, he
    could create a kind of time-machine by daisy-chaining a series of
    devices, where each device would be triggered to drop its sample into
    water by the sample from the previous device dissolving. So, given a
    long enough chain, the last device would drop its sample several
    seconds *before* the first sample did. Much hilarity ensued as he
    further speculated what would happen if tried to prevent the first
    sample from being dropped *after* the last sample had already
    dissolved.

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 27 13:28:58 2023
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:29:11 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by jillery <[email protected]>:

    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:47:08 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!�? (I found it!) but “That’s funny …�? /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.


    I wish it was me, but it isn't. I hope you haven't fallen for some
    trolls' claims that Casanova and I are sock puppets.


    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but
    I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in >>biochemistry worth a damn.


    I imagine writing 300+ books and countless articles might have taken
    most of his time. I recall Asimov did write about some chemical
    compound he claimed was so soluble, it dissolved even before it
    touched the water. This led him to speculate if that were true, he
    could create a kind of time-machine by daisy-chaining a series of
    devices, where each device would be triggered to drop its sample into
    water by the sample from the previous device dissolving. So, given a
    long enough chain, the last device would drop its sample several
    seconds *before* the first sample did. Much hilarity ensued as he
    further speculated what would happen if tried to prevent the first
    sample from being dropped *after* the last sample had already
    dissolved.

    Thiotimoline, IIRC. He loved to play logic games, of which
    the above is only one example.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From jillery@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 28 00:28:01 2023
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 13:28:58 -0700, Bob Casanova <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:29:11 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by jillery <[email protected]>:

    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:47:08 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden >><[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new >>>> discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!� (I found it!) but “That’s funny …� /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that >>>Jillery has given this quotation many times.


    I wish it was me, but it isn't. I hope you haven't fallen for some
    trolls' claims that Casanova and I are sock puppets.


    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but
    I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in >>>biochemistry worth a damn.


    I imagine writing 300+ books and countless articles might have taken
    most of his time. I recall Asimov did write about some chemical
    compound he claimed was so soluble, it dissolved even before it
    touched the water. This led him to speculate if that were true, he
    could create a kind of time-machine by daisy-chaining a series of
    devices, where each device would be triggered to drop its sample into
    water by the sample from the previous device dissolving. So, given a
    long enough chain, the last device would drop its sample several
    seconds *before* the first sample did. Much hilarity ensued as he
    further speculated what would happen if tried to prevent the first
    sample from being dropped *after* the last sample had already
    dissolved.

    Thiotimoline, IIRC. He loved to play logic games, of which
    the above is only one example.


    That sounds right. Asimov wrote about it in his first autobiography.
    The story is a witty and whimsical anecdote from his academic career.
    Not sure how many of us could fill one interesting autobiography,
    nevermind three.

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From *Hemidactylus*@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Sat Jan 28 06:03:45 2023
    Bob Casanova <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:47:08 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!â€? (I found it!) but “That’s funny …â€? /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I've used it as my sig since April of 2013.

    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but
    I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in
    biochemistry worth a damn.

    Research is nice, but he did more to advance the knowledge
    of science among laymen such as myself than almost any
    researcher.

    I read his physics book. I think I may have read a chemistry book by him
    too decades ago. His book on Genesis _In the Beginning_ pointed me in
    various directions for skeptical exegesis.

    I read several books of _Foundation_. His version of psychohistory was
    annoying as hell because some people of the memetics persuasion actually
    took it seriously. The psychoanalytic version of psychohistory was silly in
    its own way. It didn’t help that Freud’s notion of history was that Jews felt guilty for having murdered Moses after escaping Egypt and then hooked
    up with another guy who happened to be named Moses who took after a volcano god.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 28 09:22:30 2023
    On 2023-01-28 06:03:45 +0000, *Hemidactylus* said:

    Bob Casanova <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:47:08 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!�? (I found it!) but “That’s funny …�? /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I've used it as my sig since April of 2013.

    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but
    I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in
    biochemistry worth a damn.

    Research is nice, but he did more to advance the knowledge
    of science among laymen such as myself than almost any
    researcher.

    That is true: he was one of the greatest science popularizers who has
    ever lived. However, I wasn't referring to that, but to the statement
    that he was a Professor of Biochemistry. As a Professor of Biochemistry
    he was supremely undistinguished, and would be completely forgotten
    today if it were not for his popularization of science (and for his
    science fiction, I suppose, though that has never appealed to me).


    --
    athel -- biochemist, not a physicist, but detector of crackpots

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 28 08:59:15 2023
    On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 06:03:45 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <[email protected]d>:

    Bob Casanova <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:47:08 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not �??Eureka!�?? (I found it!) but �??That�??s funny �?��?? /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I've used it as my sig since April of 2013.

    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but
    I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in
    biochemistry worth a damn.

    Research is nice, but he did more to advance the knowledge
    of science among laymen such as myself than almost any
    researcher.

    I read his physics book. I think I may have read a chemistry book by him
    too decades ago. His book on Genesis _In the Beginning_ pointed me in
    various directions for skeptical exegesis.

    He was certainly prolific, in many fields.

    I read several books of _Foundation_. His version of psychohistory was >annoying as hell because some people of the memetics persuasion actually
    took it seriously. The psychoanalytic version of psychohistory was silly in >its own way. It didn�t help that Freud�s notion of history was that Jews
    felt guilty for having murdered Moses after escaping Egypt and then hooked
    up with another guy who happened to be named Moses who took after a volcano >god.

    You should have reserved your annoyance for the idiots who
    violated (sort of) Niven's Other Law: "There is a term for
    those who ascribe to an author the beliefs of his
    characters. The term is 'idiot' ". It works as well for
    those who read fiction and think the plot hooks are real.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 28 08:54:17 2023
    On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 09:22:30 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-28 06:03:45 +0000, *Hemidactylus* said:

    Bob Casanova <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:47:08 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new >>>>> discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!�? (I found it!) but “That’s funny …�? /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I've used it as my sig since April of 2013.

    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but >>>> I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in >>>> biochemistry worth a damn.

    Research is nice, but he did more to advance the knowledge
    of science among laymen such as myself than almost any
    researcher.

    That is true: he was one of the greatest science popularizers who has
    ever lived. However, I wasn't referring to that, but to the statement
    that he was a Professor of Biochemistry. As a Professor of Biochemistry
    he was supremely undistinguished, and would be completely forgotten
    today if it were not for his popularization of science (and for his
    science fiction, I suppose, though that has never appealed to me).

    OK, point taken. But he was somewhat of a polymath, which to
    me means that "professor of biochemistry" became a bit
    irrelevant. And I suspect that the vast majority of
    professors, whether of biochemistry or anything else, will
    be completely forgotten by nearly everyone not a relative
    even before the end of their lives.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Sat Jan 28 12:41:29 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:25:08 AM UTC-5, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    On 2023-01-28 06:03:45 +0000, *Hemidactylus* said:

    Bob Casanova <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 12:47:08 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-27 11:25:25 +0000, israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new >>>> discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!�€? (I found it!) but “That’s funny …�€? /
    Isaac Asimov /

    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I've used it as my sig since April of 2013.

    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but >>> I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in >>> biochemistry worth a damn.

    Research is nice, but he did more to advance the knowledge
    of science among laymen such as myself than almost any
    researcher.
    That is true: he was one of the greatest science popularizers who has
    ever lived. However, I wasn't referring to that, but to the statement
    that he was a Professor of Biochemistry. As a Professor of Biochemistry
    he was supremely undistinguished, and would be completely forgotten
    today if it were not for his popularization of science (and for his
    science fiction, I suppose, though that has never appealed to me).

    He would agree with you, I suspect. In his autobiography he gives the
    sense that he enjoyed his PhD research, but that area of chemistry
    was about to change, becoming more mathematical. mathematics
    was not his strongest area, and the delay due to the war ruled out
    any retraining. He more or less drifted into biochemistry, for
    somewhat the same reasons as the protagonist of C.P. Snow's
    first novel "The Search".

    Asimov didn't seem to like research as a postdoc or professor and wisely bowed out to pursue his real strengths. He retained the title but was no longer paid.

    We've all known professors who decided, not long after gaining tenure,
    that they weren't going to do any more research, but kept the chair
    and the pay until age 65. And couldn't teach, either.

    His mystery novel "A Whiff of Death" contains characters based on
    his time in graduate school, the principal character being based
    on his supervisor.

    One might argue that is most important work was for the US navy,
    designing dyes that, when spread over the sea, could be easily
    seen by air. Though he did not like to fly, he did take a test
    flight to verify that his dyes worked as he expected. During
    the test part of the flight, he says, he was so involved with
    the work that he forgot to be afraid.


    William Hyde

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  • From *Hemidactylus*@21:1/5 to William Hyde on Sat Jan 28 23:51:43 2023
    William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:

    [snip]

    He would agree with you, I suspect. In his autobiography he gives the
    sense that he enjoyed his PhD research, but that area of chemistry
    was about to change, becoming more mathematical. mathematics
    was not his strongest area, and the delay due to the war ruled out
    any retraining. He more or less drifted into biochemistry, for
    somewhat the same reasons as the protagonist of C.P. Snow's
    first novel "The Search".

    I am curious as to what FR Leavis would say about that particular novel by Snow. And what would he think of Asimov’s science and literary careers?
    Then I’m sure Lionel Trilling would chime in on that.

    A one time student of TH Huxley, HG Wells would also bridge the worlds of science and fiction.

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  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 28 21:36:17 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 6:55:08 PM UTC-5, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
    William Hyde <[email protected]> wrote:

    [snip]

    He would agree with you, I suspect. In his autobiography he gives the sense that he enjoyed his PhD research, but that area of chemistry
    was about to change, becoming more mathematical. mathematics
    was not his strongest area, and the delay due to the war ruled out
    any retraining. He more or less drifted into biochemistry, for
    somewhat the same reasons as the protagonist of C.P. Snow's
    first novel "The Search".

    I am curious as to what FR Leavis would say about that particular novel by Snow. And what would he think of Asimov’s science and literary careers? Then I’m sure Lionel Trilling would chime in on that.

    Rutherford told Snow the novel was OK, but that he was too old fashioned
    to appreciate the "sexual element".

    William Hyde

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  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Sun Jan 29 09:05:31 2023
    On 2023-01-28 15:54:17 +0000, Bob Casanova said:

    On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 09:22:30 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-28 06:03:45 +0000, *Hemidactylus* said:

    [ … ]



    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but >>>>> I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in >>>>> biochemistry worth a damn.

    Research is nice, but he did more to advance the knowledge
    of science among laymen such as myself than almost any
    researcher.

    That is true: he was one of the greatest science popularizers who has
    ever lived. However, I wasn't referring to that, but to the statement
    that he was a Professor of Biochemistry. As a Professor of Biochemistry
    he was supremely undistinguished, and would be completely forgotten
    today if it were not for his popularization of science (and for his
    science fiction, I suppose, though that has never appealed to me).

    OK, point taken. But he was somewhat of a polymath, which to
    me means that "professor of biochemistry" became a bit
    irrelevant. And I suspect that the vast majority of
    professors, whether of biochemistry or anything else, will
    be completely forgotten by nearly everyone not a relative
    even before the end of their lives.

    You exaggerate, especially with "vast majority". As it happens, I have
    been reading a Discussion of the Faraday Society from 1955, for which
    47 participants are listed. Of these, several are people I don't ever encountering in other contexts (G. I. H. Hanania, F. L. Hoch, J. G.
    Beetlestone ...), and others who fit your generalization, people who
    were once well known but have now pretty much faded from memory (Julia Sturtevant, Brian Rabin, Otto Hoffmann-Ostenhof ...). In addition there
    are at least 11 (23% of 47) who are still well known today, very far
    from being forgotten: Paul Boyer, Keith Dalziel, Malcolm Dixon, Freddie Gutfreund, Aaron Klug, Daniel Koshland, Keith Laidler, Hans Neurath,
    Francis Roughton, Bill Slater and R. J. P. Williams. I don't think any
    of them are still alive, since Freddie Gutfreund died two years ago at
    the age of 99.


    --
    athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

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  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 29 09:48:08 2023
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 09:05:31 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-28 15:54:17 +0000, Bob Casanova said:

    On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 09:22:30 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]>:

    On 2023-01-28 06:03:45 +0000, *Hemidactylus* said:

    [ � ]



    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but >>>>>> I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in >>>>>> biochemistry worth a damn.

    Research is nice, but he did more to advance the knowledge
    of science among laymen such as myself than almost any
    researcher.

    That is true: he was one of the greatest science popularizers who has
    ever lived. However, I wasn't referring to that, but to the statement
    that he was a Professor of Biochemistry. As a Professor of Biochemistry
    he was supremely undistinguished, and would be completely forgotten
    today if it were not for his popularization of science (and for his
    science fiction, I suppose, though that has never appealed to me).

    OK, point taken. But he was somewhat of a polymath, which to
    me means that "professor of biochemistry" became a bit
    irrelevant. And I suspect that the vast majority of
    professors, whether of biochemistry or anything else, will
    be completely forgotten by nearly everyone not a relative
    even before the end of their lives.

    You exaggerate, especially with "vast majority". As it happens, I have
    been reading a Discussion of the Faraday Society from 1955, for which
    47 participants are listed. Of these, several are people I don't ever >encountering in other contexts (G. I. H. Hanania, F. L. Hoch, J. G. >Beetlestone ...), and others who fit your generalization, people who
    were once well known but have now pretty much faded from memory (Julia >Sturtevant, Brian Rabin, Otto Hoffmann-Ostenhof ...). In addition there
    are at least 11 (23% of 47) who are still well known today, very far
    from being forgotten: Paul Boyer, Keith Dalziel, Malcolm Dixon, Freddie >Gutfreund, Aaron Klug, Daniel Koshland, Keith Laidler, Hans Neurath,
    Francis Roughton, Bill Slater and R. J. P. Williams. I don't think any
    of them are still alive, since Freddie Gutfreund died two years ago at
    the age of 99.

    I was referring to remembrance by people *not* members of
    the same or related disciplines. In fact, hardly anyone is
    remembered by more than a very few people after they die.
    "Household names" are rare, but I'd argue that Asimov is one
    of them.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

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  • From Matt Beasley@21:1/5 to Athel Cornish-Bowden on Sat Sep 2 23:49:41 2023
    Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
    israel socratus said:

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries,
    is not “Eureka!” (I found it!) but “That’s funny …” /
    Isaac Asimov /
    If you bothered to read what other people post here you'd know that
    Jillery has given this quotation many times.

    I haven't managed to read a copy of Asimov's book on biochemistry, but
    I suspect I'd find it very old-fashioned. He never did any research in biochemistry worth a damn.
    ---------------------------
    COMMENTS ON POPULATION ISSUES, BY NOBEL LAUREATES IN CHEMISTRY, IF ANY:
    1901 Jacobus van 't Hoff (1852–1911)
    1902 Hermann Fischer (1852–1919)
    1903 Svante Arrhenius (1859–1927)
    1904 Sir William Ramsay (1852–1916)
    1905 Adolf von Baeyer (1835–1917)
    1906 Henri Moissan (1852–1907)
    1907 Eduard Buchner (1860–1917)
    1908 Ernest Rutherford (1871–1937)

    1909 Wilhelm Ostwald (1853–1932) In 1911, Ostwald became President of the Deutscher
    Monistenbund (Monist Association), founded by Ernst Haeckel.[45] Ostwald (and other
    Monists) promoted eugenics and euthanasia, but only as voluntary choices with the
    intention of preventing suffering. Monist promotion of such ideas is suggested to
    have indirectly facilitated acceptance of the later Social Darwinism of the National
    Socialists. Ostwald died before the Nazis adopted and enforced the use of eugenics
    and euthanasia as involuntary government policies, to support their racist ideological
    positions.[43][3] Ostwald's Monism also influenced Carl G. Jung's identification of
    psychological types.[46]

    1910 Otto Wallach (1847–1931)
    1911 Marie Curie, née Skłodowska (1867–1934)

    1912 Victor Grignard (1871–1935) During World War I he studied chemical warfare agents
    with Georges Urbain at Sorbonne University, particularly the manufacture of phosgene
    and the detection of mustard gas.[5]

    1912 Paul Sabatier (1854–1941)

    1913 Alfred Werner (1866–1919) In his last year, he suffered from a general, progressive,
    degenerative arteriosclerosis, especially of the brain, aggravated by years of excessive
    drinking and overwork. He died in a psychiatric hospital in Zurich.[3]

    1914 Theodore Richards (1868–1928)
    1915 Richard Willstätter (1872–1942)
    1916 Not awarded
    1917 Not awarded
    1918 Fritz Haber (1868–1934)
    1919 Not awarded
    1920 Walther Nernst (1864–1941)
    1921 Frederick Soddy (1877–1956)
    1922 Francis Aston (1877–1945)
    1923 Fritz Pregl (1869–1930)
    1924 Not awarded
    1925 Richard Zsigmondy (1865–1929)
    1926 Theodor Svedberg (1884–1971)
    1927 Heinrich Wieland (1877–1957)
    1928 Adolf Windaus (1876–1959)
    1929 Arthur Harden (1865–1940)
    1929 Hans von Euler-Chelpin(1873–1964)
    1930 Hans Fischer (1881–1945)
    1931 Carl Bosch (1874–1940)
    1931 Friedrich Bergius (1884–1949)
    1932 Irving Langmuir (1881–1957)
    1933 Not awarded
    1934 Harold C. Urey (1893–1981)
    1935 Frédéric Joliot (1900–1958)
    1935 Irène Joliot-Curie (1897–1956)
    1936 Peter Debye (1884–1966)
    1937 Walter Haworth (1883–1950)
    1937 Paul Karrer (1889–1971)
    1938 Richard Kuhn (1900–1967)
    1939 Adolf Butenandt (1903–1995)
    1939 Leopold Ružička (1887–1976)
    1940 Not awarded
    1941 Not awarded
    1942 Not awarded
    1943 George de Hevesy (1885–1966)
    1944 Otto Hahn (1879–1968)
    1945 Artturi Virtanen (1895–1973)
    1946 James Sumner (1887–1955)
    1946 John Northrop (1891–1987)
    1946 Wendell Stanley (1904–1971)
    1947 Sir Robert Robinson (1886–1975)
    1948 Arne Tiselius (1902–1971)
    1949 William Giauque (1895–1982)
    1950 Otto Diels (1876–1954)
    1950 Kurt Alder (1902–1958)
    1951 Edwin McMillan (1907–1991)
    1951 Glenn Seaborg (1912–1999)
    1952 Archer Martin (1910–2002)
    1952 Richard Synge (1914–1994)
    1953 Hermann Staudinger (1881–1965)

    1954 Linus Pauling (1901–1994) Pauling supported a limited form of eugenics by suggesting
    that human carriers of defective genes be given a compulsory visible mark – such as a
    forehead tattoo – to discourage potential mates with the same defect, in order to reduce
    the number of babies with diseases such as sickle cell anemia.[128][129]

    1955 Vincent du Vigneaud (1901–1978)
    1956 Sir Cyril Hinshelwood (1897–1967)
    1956 Nikolay Semenov (1896–1986)
    1957 Lord Alexander Todd (1907–1997)
    1958 Frederick Sanger (1918–2013)
    1959 Jaroslav Heyrovský (1890–1967)
    1960 Willard Libby (1908–1980)
    1961 Melvin Calvin (1911–1997)
    1962 Max Perutz (1914–2002)
    1962 John Kendrew (1917–1997)
    1963 Karl Ziegler (1898–1973)
    1963 Giulio Natta (1903–1979)
    1964 Dorothy Hodgkin (1910–1994)
    1965 Robert Woodward (1917–1979)
    1966 Robert Mulliken (1896–1986)
    1967 Manfred Eigen (1927–2019)
    1967 Ronald Norrish (1897–1978)
    1967 George Porter (1920–2002)
    1968 Lars Onsager (1903–1976)
    1969 Derek Barton (1918–1998)
    1969 Odd Hassel (1897–1981)
    1970 Luis Leloir (1906–1987)
    1971 Gerhard Herzberg (1904–1999)
    1972 Christian Anfinsen (1916–1995)
    1972 Stanford Moore (1913–1982)
    1972 William H. Stein (1911–1980)
    1973 Ernst Fischer (1918–2007)
    1973 Geoffrey Wilkinson (1921–1996)
    1974 Paul J. Flory (1910–1985)
    1975 John Cornforth (1917–2013)
    1975 Vladimir Prelog (1906–1998)
    1976 William N. Lipscomb (1919–2011)
    1977 Ilya Prigogine (1917–2003)
    1978 Peter D. Mitchell (1920–1992)
    1979 Herbert C. Brown (1912–2004)
    1979 Georg Wittig(1897–1987)
    1980 Paul Berg (1926–2023)
    1980 Frederick Sanger (1918–2013)
    1981 Kenichi Fukui (1918–1998)
    1981 Roald Hoffmann (b. 1937)
    1982 Aaron Klug (1926–2018)
    1983 Henry Taube (1915–2005)
    1984 Robert Merrifield (1921–2006)
    1985 Herbert A. Hauptman (1917–2011)
    1985 Jerome Karle (1918–2013)
    1986 Dudley R. Herschbach (b. 1932)

    1986 Yuan T. Lee (b. 1936) In 2010, Lee said that global warming would be much more
    serious than scientists previously thought, and that Taiwanese people needed to cut
    their per-capita carbon emissions from the current 12 tons per year to just three.
    This would take more than a few slogans, turning off the lights for one hour, or
    cutting meat consumption, noting: "We will have to learn to live the simple lives
    of our ancestors." Without such efforts, he said, "Taiwanese will be unable to survive long into the future".[9]

    1986 John C. Polanyi(b. 1929)
    1987 Donald J. Cram (1919–2001)
    1987 Jean-Marie Lehn (b. 1939)
    1987 Charles J. Pedersen (1904–1989)
    1988 Johann Deisenhofer (b. 1943)
    1988 Robert Huber (b. 1937)
    1988 Hartmut Michel (b. 1948)
    1989 Sidney Altman (1939–2022)
    1989 Thomas Cech (b. 1947)
    1990 Elias J. Corey (b. 1928)
    1991 Richard R. Ernst (1933–2021)
    1992 Rudolph A. Marcus (b. 1923)
    1993 Kary B. Mullis (1944–2019)
    1993 Michael Smith (1932–2000)
    1994 George A. Olah (1927–2017)
    1995 Paul J. Crutzen (1933–2021)
    1995 Mario J. Molina (1943–2020)
    1995 Frank S. Rowland(1927–2012)
    1996 Robert F. Curl Jr. (1933–2022)
    1996 Sir Harold W. Kroto (1939–2016)

    1996 Richard E. Smalley (1943–2005) Starting in the late 1990s, Smalley advocated for
    the need for cheap, clean energy, which he described as the number one problem facing
    humanity in the 21st century. He described what he called "The Terawatt Challenge",
    the need to develop a new power source capable of increasing "our energy output by a
    minimum factor of two, the generally agreed-upon number, certainly by the middle of
    the century, but preferably well before that."[29][30] He also presented a list entitled
    "Top Ten Problems of Humanity for Next 50 Years".[29][31] It can be interesting to compare
    his list, in order of priority, to the Ten Threats formulated by the U.N.'s High Level
    Threat Panel in 2004. Smalley's list, in order of priority, was:
    ENERGY, WATER, FOOD, ENVIRONMENT, POVERTY, TERRORISM & WAR, DISEASE, EDUCATION, DEMOCRACY, POPULATION [29]
    Smalley regarded several problems as interlinked: the lack of people entering the fields
    of science and engineering, the need for an alternative to fossil fuels, and the need to
    address global warming.[29] He felt that improved science education was essential, and
    strove to encourage young students to consider careers in science. His slogan for this
    effort was "Be a scientist, save the world."[32]

    1997 Paul D. Boyer (1918–2018)
    1997 John E. Walker (b. 1941)
    1997 Jens C. Skou (1918–2018)
    1998 Walter Kohn (1923–2016)
    1998 John A. Pople(1925–2004)
    1999 Ahmed Zewail (1946–2016)
    2000 Alan J. Heeger (b. 1936)
    2000 Alan G. MacDiarmid (1927–2007)
    2000 Hideki Shirakawa (b. 1936)
    2001 William S. Knowles (1917–2012)
    2001 Ryōji Noyori (b. 1938)
    2001 K. Barry Sharpless (b. 1941)
    2002 John B. Fenn (1917–2010)
    2002 Koichi Tanaka (b. 1959)
    2002 Kurt Wüthrich (b. 1938)

    2003 Peter Agre (b. 1949) He has said that he admired Linus Pauling, another Nobel laureate and peace activist.[54]

    2003 Roderick MacKinnon (b. 1956)
    2004 Aaron Ciechanover (b. 1947)
    2004 Avram Hershko (b. 1937)
    2004 Irwin Rose (1926–2015)
    2005 Yves Chauvin (1930–2015)
    2005 Robert H. Grubbs (1942–2021)
    2005 Richard R. Schrock (b. 1945)
    2006 Roger D. Kornberg (b. 1947)
    2007 Gerhard Ertl (b. 1936)
    2008 Osamu Shimomura (1928–2018)
    2008 Martin Chalfie (b. 1947)
    2008 Roger Y. Tsien (1952–2016)
    2009 Venkatraman Ramakrishnan (b. 1952)
    2009 Thomas A. Steitz (1940–2018)
    2009 Ada E. Yonath (b. 1939)
    2010 Richard F. Heck (1931–2015)
    2010 Ei-ichi Negishi (1935–2021)
    2010 Akira Suzuki (b. 1930)
    2011 Dan Shechtman (b. 1941)
    2012 Robert Lefkowitz (b. 1943)
    2012 Brian Kobilka (b. 1955)
    2013 Martin Karplus (b. 1930)
    2013 Michael Levitt (b. 1947)
    2013 Arieh Warshel (b. 1940)
    2014 Eric Betzig (b. 1960)
    2014 Stefan W. Hell (b. 1962)
    2014 William E. Moerner (b. 1953)
    2015 Tomas Lindahl (b. 1938)
    2015 Paul L. Modrich (b. 1946)
    2015 Aziz Sancar (b. 1946)
    2016 Jean-Pierre Sauvage (b. 1944)
    2016 Fraser Stoddart (b. 1942)
    2016 Ben Feringa (b. 1951)
    2017 Jacques Dubochet (b. 1942)
    2017 Joachim Frank (b. 1940)

    2017 Richard Henderson (b. 1945) Outside academia, he lists his interests as hill walking
    in Scotland, kayaking and drinking good wine.[3][8]

    2018 Frances Arnold (b. 1956) Her hobbies include traveling, scuba diving, skiing,
    dirt-bike riding, and hiking.[43]

    2018 George Smith (b. 1941)
    2018 Sir Gregory Winter (b. 1951)
    2019 John B. Goodenough (1922–2023)
    2019 M. Stanley Whittingham (b. 1941)
    2019 Akira Yoshino (b. 1948)
    2020 Emmanuelle Charpentier (b. 1968)
    2020 Jennifer Doudna (b. 1964)
    2021 Benjamin List (b. 1968)
    2022 David MacMillan (b. 1968)
    2022 Carolyn R. Bertozzi (b. 1966)
    2022 Morten Meldal (b. 1954)
    2022 K. Barry Sharpless (b. 1941)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_in_Chemistry
    --
    --

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