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  • Musings about Iram and Allah again

    From David Amicus@21:1/5 to Yusuf B Gursey on Sun Feb 21 16:35:49 2016
    On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 5:40:03 AM UTC-8, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
    Musing about Iram and Allah again.

    As I had said before Wadi Ramm in Jordan was identified
    with 'iram (Iram of the Pillars) by the medieval geographer
    Yaqut and inscriptions in Ancient North Arabian script,
    and a tribe 3a:d <3d> as in the Qur'an. Now 'iram >
    ramm could be simple reetymologizing of a biliteral root.
    However, I noticed that it is pronounced rAmm with a distinct
    back vowel, and popularly romanized as Wadi Rum, <Rum> to be
    read as in the drink "rum". One possibility would be that
    the local dialect regularly uses an emphatic r and has a
    back vowel associated with it as is normal for Iraqi and
    Gulf Arabic. Another possibilty is that it is another case
    of secondary emphatic r resulting from contact with a
    glottal stop. Thus 'iram > 'ram > RAm > RAmm (triliteralizing).
    This happened in Moroccan Arabic: mRA "woman" from Classical
    al-mar'a(t) contrasting mra "to shine" from mira:yah "mirror".
    I had proposed the same mechanism fro the emphatic l in Allah
    al-'ila:h > al'la:h > aLLA:h .
    I have to know more about the local though to be sure. Comments welcome, espacially from those who know the speeech of the region.

    I had not heard about the Radi Ramm before. Here is more info on it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadi_Rum

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Yusuf B Gursey@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 21 07:37:41 2016
    Musing about Iram and Allah again.

    As I had said before Wadi Ramm in Jordan was identified
    with 'iram (Iram of the Pillars) by the medieval geographer
    Yaqut and inscriptions in Ancient North Arabian script,
    and a tribe 3a:d <3d> as in the Qur'an. Now 'iram >
    ramm could be simple reetymologizing of a biliteral root.
    However, I noticed that it is pronounced rAmm with a distinct
    back vowel, and popularly romanized as Wadi Rum, <Rum> to be
    read as in the drink "rum". One possibility would be that
    the local dialect regularly uses an emphatic r and has a
    back vowel associated with it as is normal for Iraqi and
    Gulf Arabic. Another possibilty is that it is another case
    of secondary emphatic r resulting from contact with a
    glottal stop. Thus 'iram > 'ram > RAm > RAmm (triliteralizing).
    This happened in Moroccan Arabic: mRA "woman" from Classical
    al-mar'a(t) contrasting mra "to shine" from mira:yah "mirror".
    I had proposed the same mechanism fro the emphatic l in Allah
    al-'ila:h > al'la:h > aLLA:h .
    I have to know more about the local though to be sure. Comments welcome, espacially from those who know the speeech of the region.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 3 00:41:12 2016
    Regarding the emphatic /r/, we velarize the /r/ before the vowels /a/ and /=
    u/ as a rule, with no exceptions. We leave the consonant unvelarized before=
    /i/. I would add that the velarization before /a/ is full, with the same e= ffect on the vowel as if /S/ or /D/ preceded it. It is milder before /u/, s=
    o the effect on the vowel is not as strong as if a nominally emphatic conso= nant preceded it. Therefore, the velarization of /r/ before /a/ offers no c= lue about a possible contraction before it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Yusuf B Gursey@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Mar 3 05:00:52 2016
    On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 8:50:03 AM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote:

    Who is "we"?

    Regarding the emphatic /r/, we velarize the /r/ before the vowels /a/ and /= u/ as a rule, with no exceptions. We leave the consonant unvelarized before=
    /i/. I would add that the velarization before /a/ is full, with the same e= ffect on the vowel as if /S/ or /D/ preceded it. It is milder before /u/, s= o the effect on the vowel is not as strong as if a nominally emphatic conso= nant preceded it. Therefore, the velarization of /r/ before /a/ offers no c= lue about a possible contraction before it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)