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  • Tidbit on Charlton of Apley

    From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 30 11:54:14 2021
    It took quite a while for me to find this family laid out in full face.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=VpnC3wgof6gC&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#PPA4,M1

    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101075683563&view=1up&seq=159&skin=2021&q1=Charleton

    We see here that William Charleton by his wife Elizabeth Allen had a son who d.s.p. and a daughter Elizabeth who m Edward Bridgeman "third son" (so said in 1591) of William /Bridgeman/ and Anne /Smythe/

    William Charleton had two daughters Barbara and Christophera
    Being such an odd name I tried to find Christophera

    I did find one of this name, who m Julius Freake

    To cement the idea that this was the exact same woman

    https://books.google.com/books?id=vvJplqs_XX8C&lpg=RA1-PA521&ots=JH6OLf7O7z&dq=%22julius%20freake%22&pg=RA1-PA521#v=onepage&q=%22julius%20freake%22&f=false

    She presents a descent of the family of Charlton....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Thu Sep 30 11:56:36 2021
    On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 11:54:16 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    It took quite a while for me to find this family laid out in full face.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=VpnC3wgof6gC&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#PPA4,M1

    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101075683563&view=1up&seq=159&skin=2021&q1=Charleton

    We see here that William Charleton by his wife Elizabeth Allen had a son who d.s.p. and a daughter Elizabeth who m Edward Bridgeman "third son" (so said in 1591) of William /Bridgeman/ and Anne /Smythe/

    William Charleton had two daughters Barbara and Christophera
    Being such an odd name I tried to find Christophera

    I did find one of this name, who m Julius Freake

    To cement the idea that this was the exact same woman

    https://books.google.com/books?id=vvJplqs_XX8C&lpg=RA1-PA521&ots=JH6OLf7O7z&dq=%22julius%20freake%22&pg=RA1-PA521#v=onepage&q=%22julius%20freake%22&f=false

    She presents a descent of the family of Charlton....


    Julius Freake and Christofera Bridgeman were married
    21 Feb 1614
    Kensington, London

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 30 12:01:28 2021
    It is quite likely that this is Julius' will

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D880852

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Thu Sep 30 12:56:14 2021
    On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:01:30 PM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    It is quite likely that this is Julius' will

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D880852

    I have seen the Freke pedigrees in The Ancestor Volume 11 but evidently there are earlier ones in The Ancestor Volume 10. I wonder if anyone has access to that work?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 30 13:54:39 2021
    He names his wife Christofera, and it seems his son is named Richard

    He lives in London, he is a letherseller
    I wonder if his name should not be Freke ?
    he has a daughter it looks like her name might be Jane ?

    there is another crabby word here I'm going to say its "Godchildren" ?
    and they are Henry Perryn and Cassandra Smyth who get ten pounds each

    he has a "loving friend" which looks like George Turberville (?)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John Higgins@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Sep 30 21:37:37 2021
    On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:56:15 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:01:30 PM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    It is quite likely that this is Julius' will

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D880852
    I have seen the Freke pedigrees in The Ancestor Volume 11 but evidently there are earlier ones in The Ancestor Volume 10. I wonder if anyone has access to that work?
    I have a digital copy of vol. 10 of The Ancestor that I downloaded almost 10 years. It contains an article of 30-35 pages on "The Freke Pedigree". It doesn't have the Google logo on it, so it's probably from the Internet Archive - have you checked
    there?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Stewart@21:1/5 to John Higgins on Fri Oct 1 17:26:01 2021
    On 01-Oct-21 2:37 PM, John Higgins wrote:
    On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:56:15 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wrote:
    On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:01:30 PM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote: >>> It is quite likely that this is Julius' will

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D880852
    I have seen the Freke pedigrees in The Ancestor Volume 11 but evidently there are earlier ones in The Ancestor Volume 10. I wonder if anyone has access to that work?
    I have a digital copy of vol. 10 of The Ancestor that I downloaded almost 10 years. It contains an article of 30-35 pages on "The Freke Pedigree". It doesn't have the Google logo on it, so it's probably from the Internet Archive - have you checked
    there?


    The page range is deceptive - it starts on p. 179 and the next article
    starts on p. 213, but the Freke Pedigree article in my copy consists of
    just a single page of text followed by eight double-page tables, i.e 17
    printed pages altogether.

    The first page describes the material in the tables as:

    "A PEDIGREE
    or Genealogy of the family of ye Frekes for near 200 years
    FIRST BEGUN
    by Ralph Freke of Hannington esq a gentleman of great
    integrity and learning and who living to his eighty-eighth year
    might be justly deemed a credible witness
    SECONDLY AUGMENTED
    by ye industrious inquiryes of Mr John Freke
    Rector of Ockford Fitzpaine in Dorset
    and sometimes a fellow of Wadham College in Oxon. and
    lastly reduced to this forme
    by William Freke of Hinton St. Maryes in ye County of Dorset
    Barrister of ye Mid. Temple
    July ye 14th 1707".

    That being aged 87 makes someone a credible witness is an interesting
    theory - I suppose you would have to test the justness of the deemer
    rather than the credibility of the witness to verify this assertion.

    Peter Stewart

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 1 07:00:32 2021
    Thanks to you both.
    I *did* finally find a copy of this in the online familysearch.org library
    It did *not* help me to identify Julius Freake in this family however

    Interestingly I already had a person named Cassandra Smythe in my database.
    She was bap 14 May 1599 Legsby
    the daughter of
    William /Smythe/ of Honington
    by
    Mary /Husthwaite/

    I wonder if this gives any weight to the prospect that Christophera's paternal grandmother Anne was of this same family at Honington.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Fri Oct 1 07:05:24 2021
    On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 12:01:30 PM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    It is quite likely that this is Julius' will

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D880852


    Reference: PROB 11/159/298
    Description: Will of Julius Freake, Leatherseller of London of Saint Clement Danes, Middlesex
    Date: 23 February 1631
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew

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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Fri Oct 1 07:02:04 2021
    On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 7:00:34 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    Thanks to you both.
    I *did* finally find a copy of this in the online familysearch.org library
    It did *not* help me to identify Julius Freake in this family however

    Interestingly I already had a person named Cassandra Smythe in my database. She was bap 14 May 1599 Legsby
    the daughter of
    William /Smythe/ of Honington
    by
    Mary /Husthwaite/

    I wonder if this gives any weight to the prospect that Christophera's paternal grandmother Anne was of this same family at Honington.


    No... wait.
    Julius did not marry into this family until long after this Cassandra was born.

    So... go fish

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 1 09:36:02 2021
    In pursuing every single (god damned) mention of any Henry Perryn I found a curious omission.

    There was a William Fremlyn, who somehow plays into this story as well
    He was
    William /Fremlyn/ of London; merchant; esq; President of the East India Company he died 13 Mar 1645
    "VERY long" M.I. St Leonard Shoreditch

    His name is mentioned dozens if not hundreds of time without any mention at all of his family other than the names of his parents in his M I
    Thomas /Fremlyn/ of St Leonard Shoreditch
    and
    Anne // of St Leonard Shoreditch

    It appears possible that Burke's 1937 has this Fremlyn family
    and I would be grateful were someone to post that page or email me it
    as I cannot read it online

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 1 11:41:50 2021
    When William made his Will dated 10 Jan 1645
    he specifies his two sisters (only)
    Elizabeth /Fremlyn/ wife of Henry /Perryn/ of London; innholder
    and
    Susan /Fremlyn/ wife of Hunsden (first name not specified)

    Remembering that William specified that his parents were "of this parish"
    we see a Susan baptised at St Leonard's Shoredith 17 Mar 1615/6, father Thomas and a William 1 Nov 1607, father Thomas

    So firstly I propose this is our William Fremlyn, and his sister Susan Hunsden

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 1 11:49:23 2021
    Guessing the perhaps Elizabeth (who was already twice married) was the elder sister
    I cast about for an Elizabeth Fremlin with father Thomas and found one

    Name Elizabeth Fremlin
    Sex Female
    Christening Date 13 Oct 1603
    Christening Place Kent, England, United Kingdom
    Christening Place (Original) West Hythe, Kent, England
    Father's Name Thomas Fremlin

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 1 12:03:14 2021
    It is possible that there is no relation at all between William Fremlyn (d1645) and William Methwold
    (d1653) but he did make him his executor

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/eb26d0fa-55a6-4721-8c69-62771e6a9f6a

    They were both Presidents of the East India Company, Fremlyn followed Methwold who was bap 10 Sep 1590 so much older.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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