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  • Elizabeth (Harpur) Manley daughter of Henry Harpur Bnt and Barbara Faun

    From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 11:55:38 2021
    https://books.google.com/books?id=LtwyAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=frances+palmer+henry+harpur&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5z_uogoTzAhXDvJ4KHQzfD4MQ6AF6BAg1EAI#v=onepage&q&f=true

    two sisters, daughter of Henry Harpur, apparently married two brothers per this source

    Barbara Harpur
    m 17 Jun 1646 St Bartholomew the Less (Batch M15108-1 wj)
    John Manley, esq, son of Sir John Manley

    Elizabeth Harpur
    m
    Richard Manley "younger son" of Sir John Manley

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Thu Sep 16 12:03:00 2021
    On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 11:55:40 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=LtwyAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA185&dq=frances+palmer+henry+harpur&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5z_uogoTzAhXDvJ4KHQzfD4MQ6AF6BAg1EAI#v=onepage&q&f=true

    two sisters, daughter of Henry Harpur, apparently married two brothers per this source

    Barbara Harpur
    m 17 Jun 1646 St Bartholomew the Less (Batch M15108-1 wj)
    John Manley, esq, son of Sir John Manley

    Elizabeth Harpur
    m
    Richard Manley "younger son" of Sir John Manley

    In this source we see that one of their sisters Jane, married a Thomas Twyford of London esq

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/7add1051-28dd-4148-8b79-292e8071de87

    We see here that Richard Manley (m Elizabeth Harpur), writes on 21 Sep 1651, to his *brother-in-law* Nicholas Wilmot (m Dorothy Harpur) that their *sister* (sister-in-law to them each) Twyford (Jane Harpur m Thomas Twyford) died last Sunday

    It's a curious example, where here two men who were not in relationship at all, in our modern eyes, yet both brothers-in-law to this woman, sister to each of their wifes, call each other "brother".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Thu Sep 16 12:39:59 2021
    On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    Richard Manley was living in 1651 but dead by 1662 when his widow is acting on a lease

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/5da9c50b-8176-4e0e-b449-cca85fd778d1

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/7add1051-28dd-4148-8b79-292e8071de87

    That Richard Manley was a "younger son"
    And John was the "youngest son"

    https://books.google.com/books?id=EvQfAAAAMAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=richard%20manley%20green%20cloth&pg=RA2-PA259#v=onepage&q=richard%20manley%20green%20cloth&f=false

    I believe the pedigree is incorrect in calling their father "Sir John" but rather that he must be this "Sir Richard" who was knighted in 1628 and did have son Richard and a "youngest son" John as well

    https://books.google.com/books?id=znJAAQAAMAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=richard%20manley%20green%20cloth&pg=PA269#v=onepage&q=richard%20manley%20green%20cloth&f=false

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 12:24:59 2021
    Richard Manley was living in 1651 but dead by 1662 when his widow is acting on a lease

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/5da9c50b-8176-4e0e-b449-cca85fd778d1

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/7add1051-28dd-4148-8b79-292e8071de87

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 12:20:46 2021
    Elizabeth (Harpur) Manley outlived her husband Richard and she left a will
    Will dated 27 Apr 1670 ((PROB 11/332/551)
    written in a crabby hand

    But I can make out a few things
    "reclict of Richard Manley, late of Lincolns Inn"

    she apparently has lands in
    "the Cittie of Westminster"
    "in Fifield (?) Middlesex"
    "in Chigworth Essex"

    "after the death of my son Richard Manley without heirs of his body"
    "to my nephew Thomas Tafford"

    "my brother Nicholas Wilmot"
    "Humphrey Tomlinson"
    "my sister Barbara Manly"

    "Sir John Harpur baronet, Henry Harpur and William Harpur, my brothers"

    "Dorothy Wilmot, Isabel Hurt, and Barbara Manley, my sisters"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 12:49:54 2021
    John Manley who married Barbara Harpur in 1646 was yet living, (as was she) in 1663 when he writes to her

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/d4120968-6d8f-478f-b485-86bb0ae217a5

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 18:22:40 2021
    Many sources cite that Robert Wilmot the MP married Elizabeth Eardley without giving any useful dates
    Here we can see their post-nuptial settlement

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/19a5cf44-93a0-42f4-ba6b-5ebdd5666f92

    I will presume for the moment that the Anne widow is the mother of Elizabeth Elizabeth's father has been given as Edward Eardley esq

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 18:30:39 2021
    (1733) The next is Eardley Hall. That estate has been the Eardleys its beleived from the time of the building the house, and soe tooke its name from the owner. The last of the male as lived at it I beleive his name was Edward. He was a justice of the
    peace and an esquire. He had two brothers Richard and Ralph. Richard was a tradesman in London. He marryed and had a son named Richard. Mr. Ralph dyed a batchler about 60 years since and [was] buryed at Audley. Edward the justice of peace marryed and had
    two doughters named Elizabeth and Alice. Elizabeth marryed to Robert the eldest son of Sir Nickolas Willmot of Osmaston near Derby. Note : Mr. Edward Eardley left Eardley Hall to his wife for life. He dyed about 70 years since. She lived to see her
    eldest doughter marryed and have several children. Robert Willmot Esqr. who marryed her lived att Eardley hall till after the old gent[le]woman dyed, soon after went and lived at Osmaston, and dyed about 10 or 12 years since. Mr. Eardley of London had
    some property in Eardley demean after the death of old Madam Eardley. Old Madam Willmot and Mr. Willmot bought him out, and left it as reported to his grandson who is baptized Eardley and now a Councel att Law. Old Mr. Wilmot had 6 sons or 7, one of the
    two. They are al dead onely Robert and Edward who were the eldest. He had one doughter. She is dead. Robert the eldest marryed Ursula the doughter of Sir Samuel Marrow. He has two sons and one doughter liveing by her. He lives att Osmastone. He has given
    them estates in Audley parish that came by the mother Mrs. Eardley to his eldest son Robert who now enjoys them and lives in or near Derby. Alice the younger doughter of old Esqr. Eardley never marryed. She lived with her sister Willmot at Osmaston and
    dyed there about 20 years since. She left the bulke of her estate of land and moneys to her brother in law Willmot and his children. It was many thousand pounds value. [Richard Parrott AN ACCOUNTT .. ESTATES IN THE PARISH OF AUDLEY (1733) in SHC 1944 54-
    5]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 18:25:21 2021
    The marriage of Robert Wilmot and Elizabeth Eardley was
    30 May 1665
    Church Lawton, Cheshire (Batch I04356-6 wj)

    I wonder why they waited two years to settle property on them

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 18:18:52 2021
    We have seen Elizabeth Harpur called the "eldest daughter" of her father
    And here we see a source claiming to know that she was born exactly in 1611

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjbu7C35YTzAhVDHjQIHSQdDm0QFnoECB0QAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fspecialcollections.le.ac.uk%2Fdigital%2Fapi%2Fcollection%2Fp15407coll6%2Fid%2F2478%2Fdownload&usg=AOvVaw0nTi-vJq-OGZ8QhQWzUylN
    That she was born exactly in 1611

    This would as well, make her not just the eldest daughter but the eldest child as the heir John /Harpur/ of Calke in Ticknall, co Derby; 2nd Bnt; when he died in 1669 is called "Aet 53"

    Dorothy Harpur, another sister in this cluster is called "third daughter" and it was she who married
    Nicholas /Wilmot/ of Gray's Inn and of Osmaston -1651-; Knt

    They had at least two children and we are lucky that the eldest son and heir Robert /Wilmot/ of Osmaston, co Derby; MP; Ho

    was an MP and therefore has a HOP entry where he learn not only that he was born in 1641 but that he succeeded his father in 1682, so we can go looking for a will of that date

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 18:44:19 2021
    There is an M.I. for Edward Eardley d 28 Jan 1656 "aet suae 53"

    His father John is called "Gent" 5J1 and was living 1616
    John had married Alice Sutton who was also living 1616

    Two popish recusants were returned in 1607, Anne, wife of Edward Sutton of Hall House, and
    their daughter Alice Eardley. Alice was returned with her husband John in 1616, when three other women, all labourers' wives, were also returned. Anne Sutton was again returned in 1635, along with another woman, and Alice Eardley in 1641

    From: 'Leek: Rushton Spencer', A History of the County of Stafford: Volume 7: Leek and the Moorlands (1996), pp. 223-229. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22920


    Alice Sutton, was the elder sister of that Anne Sutton who m
    Richard /Eltonhead/ of Eltonhead; Gent 1613

    Their parents were

    Edward /Sutton/ of Rushton Spencer, co Staf; of Coal Pitt Ford, co Staf 1607; of Hall House 1607; Gent
    and
    Anne /Stanley/ bap 31 Dec 1561Ormskirk, co Lanc

    Through Anne Stanley, Elizabeth (Eardley) Wilmot descends from Henry 1 (of England)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 18:47:45 2021
    This Alice (Sutton) Eardley is not listed in Genealogics, although many of her descendants are present much later
    She should be here with her mother

    https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00481092&tree=LEO

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 19:00:58 2021
    I think that Dorothy Harpur outlived her husband Nicholas Wilmot

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/e8899d4f-fee6-464a-b7ed-06e460bbd455

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 16 18:52:05 2021
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/392be454-ba84-4250-b3ae-710bafeaeeea

    Nicholas Wilmot and Dorothy (Harpur) and William Harpur and Alice (Coke) convey lands in 1654
    I had not previously known that Alice lived that long

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 17 08:09:38 2021
    If Elizabeth was the eldest daughter in this cluster, and born in 1611, then her sister Isabel has a birthrange now of 1612-1635. The final year is because it is known that her son by Nicholas /Hurt/ of Castern, co Staf; also called Nicholas /Hurt/ of
    Castern, co Staf was first son; "aet 14" Apr 1663

    https://books.google.com/books?id=93M-AQAAIAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=hurt%20of%20castern&pg=PA1027#v=onepage&q&f=true

    https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Heraldic_Visitations_of_Staffordshir/n19H4ni7NSkC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Roger%20Hunt%20of%20Casterne&pg=PA185&printsec=frontcover&bsq=Roger%20Hunt%20of%20Casterne

    This son married Elizabeth /Lowe/ who has been called heiress of her father, but this is not strictly the case

    Her parents were John /Lowe/ of Alderwasley, co Derby; esq born 2 May 1616 third son buried 24 Jul 1677 Wirksworth
    and his wife Elizabeth /Crofts/ Co-heiress of her father buried 8 Jul 1677 Wirksworth

    These parents had several children amongst whom
    John /Lowe/ of Alderwasley; esq
    eldest son "aged 9" 1662
    died 16 Jun 1690 unmarried

    Upon HIS death, his sisters became his heirs, and then Elizabeth eventually was the sole heiress of this brother.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 17 08:52:48 2021
    A2A has a will for Anthony Croft of Brampton
    Will dated 20 May 1656 (PROB 11/255/454)

    where he mentions his daughters Elizabeth now the wife of John Lowe
    and Grace

    John /Lowe/ of Alderwasley; esq
    eldest son "aged 9" 1662
    so Elizabeth and John Lowe were married 1630/1653 to allow him to be at least 14

    Grace and Thomas Browne were married in 1663
    Thomas /Browne/ of Hungry Bentley in Alkmonton, co Derby
    student at Gray's Inn 1653
    d 17 Jul 1708 Longford, co Derby

    Grace
    bur 6 Jul 1690 Longford, co Derby

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 17 08:33:41 2021
    Elizabeth Lowe's maternal grandfather is called "Anthony Crofts of Brampton"
    I am not able to identify this family. Anyone?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 17 09:09:52 2021
    Evidently we do know the name of Anthony Croft's wife
    At Longford, Derby we have

    Eliza Crofts mother-in-law to Mr Thomas Browne of Bentley buried April 19th under the year 1673

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 17 12:36:12 2021
    There is some kind of minor batch called V01790-1
    which has a few entries from Swarkstone Derby.
    I don't know what kind of batch a V batch is

    However we get two snippets out of it.

    We had known that Winnifred Harpur, daughter of
    John /Harpur/ of Swarkston, co Derby -1605-; Knt -1605-; Sheriff of Derbyshire 1580
    by
    Isabella /Pierrepont/

    that she married a
    John /Browne/ of Stretton

    http://books.google.com/books?id=9gQVAAAAQAAJ&dq=richard%20harpur%20catharine%20gresley&pg=PA185#v=onepage&q=richard%20harpur%20catharine%20gresley&f=true

    From this odd batch we can see why this marriage was not previously found
    He is called Jones Burrowes

    Perhaps the batch is very hard to read? Or they are correcting his name
    At any rate
    26 Jul 1611
    Swarkestone, co Derby (Batch V01790-1 wj)


    We also get, decades later the date for the marriage of
    John /Harpur/ of Calke; 3rd Bnt
    b 1642 d 1681
    to
    Anne /Willoughby/
    b 15 Dec 1652 Hunsdon, co Hert (Batch P012051 wj)

    they married
    17 Sep 1674
    Swarkestone, co Derby (Batch V01790-1 wj)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)