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  • medieval Aspergers?

    From Enno Borgsteede@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 22 14:42:38 2021
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:

    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.

    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Nov 22 13:45:01 2021
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?

    They called it something else

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John Higgins@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Nov 22 16:04:28 2021
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?
    They called it something else
    So...what did they call it? Enlighten us, please.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Stewart@21:1/5 to John Higgins on Tue Nov 23 11:58:42 2021
    On 23-Nov-21 11:04 AM, John Higgins wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote: >>> Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?
    They called it something else
    So...what did they call it? Enlighten us, please.

    If they thought it needed labelling in the first place, and if they read narratives of past kings, they maybe called it "royalty".

    Peter Stewart

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Paulo Ricardo Canedo@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 22 16:25:35 2021
    A segunda-feira, 22 de novembro de 2021 à(s) 13:42:41 UTC, [email protected] escreveu:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?

    Thanks for letting me know.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Denis Beauregard@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Nov 22 19:23:07 2021
    On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:04:28 -0800 (PST), John Higgins
    <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote: >> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote: >> > Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?
    They called it something else
    So...what did they call it? Enlighten us, please.

    Hans Asperger is born in 1906 and the name of the syndrom is named
    by him, so if it was described before the 1940s, then it must have
    another name. But I would say it was not described or defined in
    middle age era.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/ French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/ Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Higgins@21:1/5 to Denis Beauregard on Mon Nov 22 17:18:35 2021
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 4:23:08 PM UTC-8, Denis Beauregard wrote:
    On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:04:28 -0800 (PST), John Higgins
    <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?
    They called it something else
    So...what did they call it? Enlighten us, please.
    Hans Asperger is born in 1906 and the name of the syndrom is named
    by him, so if it was described before the 1940s, then it must have
    another name. But I would say it was not described or defined in
    middle age era.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/ French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
    Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790
    I agree with you - but Will Johnson seems to think otherwise....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Enno Borgsteede@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 23 14:59:43 2021
    Op 23-11-2021 om 01:58 schreef Peter Stewart:
    On 23-Nov-21 11:04 AM, John Higgins wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote: >>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote: >>>> Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?
    They called it something else
    So...what did they call it?  Enlighten us, please.

    If they thought it needed labelling in the first place, and if they read narratives of past kings, they maybe called it "royalty".

    Nice. You mean autism by inbreeding? Touchy subject, in modern times.

    Putting that aside, the usual suspects that I know, like Henry Cavendish, or Isaac Newton, are too young to be medieval, and in the strictest interpretation of medieval, even Leonardo da Vinci would be to young.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Nov 23 12:30:13 2021
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:18:36 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 4:23:08 PM UTC-8, Denis Beauregard wrote:
    On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:04:28 -0800 (PST), John Higgins <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times? >> They called it something else
    So...what did they call it? Enlighten us, please.
    Hans Asperger is born in 1906 and the name of the syndrom is named
    by him, so if it was described before the 1940s, then it must have
    another name. But I would say it was not described or defined in
    middle age era.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/
    French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
    Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790
    I agree with you - but Will Johnson seems to think otherwise....

    Reading comprehension
    I said it was not called Aspergers in medieval times
    I cannot help that you want to add extra layers of interpretation to my very clear sentence

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Stewart@21:1/5 to Enno Borgsteede on Wed Nov 24 08:44:45 2021
    On 24-Nov-21 12:59 AM, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
    Op 23-11-2021 om 01:58 schreef Peter Stewart:
    On 23-Nov-21 11:04 AM, John Higgins wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected]
    wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected]
    wrote:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?
    They called it something else
    So...what did they call it?  Enlighten us, please.

    If they thought it needed labelling in the first place, and if they
    read narratives of past kings, they maybe called it "royalty".

    Nice. You mean autism by inbreeding? Touchy subject, in modern times.

    This didn't cross my mind, Enno - I wasn't aware that a genetic factor
    in Asperger's is currently debated.

    I was thinking of identifiable habits in the public lives of kings,
    their tending to be social loners with a single-minded focus on things
    that please or benefit themselves without always considering the effects
    on others. I doubt that such patterns of behaviour are due entirely to
    genes rather than being random and perhaps resulting in some part from
    early (even perinatal) experience.

    Putting that aside, the usual suspects that I know, like Henry
    Cavendish, or Isaac Newton, are too young to be medieval, and in the strictest interpretation of medieval, even Leonardo da Vinci would be to young.

    Emperor Frederick II is no doubt a candidate as well. The list of
    medieval rulers to consider in such an unanswerable question is surely long.

    Peter Stewart

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  • From John Higgins@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Nov 23 14:52:55 2021
    On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 12:30:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:18:36 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 4:23:08 PM UTC-8, Denis Beauregard wrote:
    On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:04:28 -0800 (PST), John Higgins <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?
    They called it something else
    So...what did they call it? Enlighten us, please.
    Hans Asperger is born in 1906 and the name of the syndrom is named
    by him, so if it was described before the 1940s, then it must have another name. But I would say it was not described or defined in
    middle age era.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/
    French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
    Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790
    I agree with you - but Will Johnson seems to think otherwise....
    Reading comprehension
    I said it was not called Aspergers in medieval times
    I cannot help that you want to add extra layers of interpretation to my very clear sentence
    I understood your meaning very clearly. You said "They CALLED it something else" in medieval times. That says they had a name for it, or so you said. That's different than saying "it was NOT called Aspergers in medieval times", which implies that they
    did NOT have a name for it. Which "very clear sentence" of yours are we to believe?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From taf@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Nov 23 15:22:32 2021
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 4:04:30 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?
    They called it something else
    So...what did they call it? Enlighten us, please.

    The whole point of naming a new syndrome is that it has not been recognized as a coherent entity previously. It would have been called numerous different things by different people at different times, based on their own cultural and medical context. In
    many cases, different symptoms of a syndrome would have been called different things, sometimes even in the same patient. In the case of Aspergers it would have been called all of the things that a modern undiagnosed Aspergers individual is called, plus
    some additional ones that are no longer culturally relevant (like 'shaman' or 'witch').

    taf

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  • From joseph cook@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Nov 24 05:04:27 2021
    On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 7:25:07 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    Neither was I. The touchy part lies in the fact that in my country, I read signals that there's more autism among certain groups of immigrants, where there is more inbreeding too. And that's something that you're not allowed to say in some parts of the
    'modern' world.

    You are allowed to say it. But people will yell at you, because it is an absurd correlation to make. And offensively stupid as well. "Populations" have different rates of medical conditions. "Certain groups of immigrants" makes it seem like you
    are evaluating fitness of groups of people to join your society based on their genetics.

    -Joe C

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  • From Enno Borgsteede@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 24 13:25:04 2021
    If they thought it needed labelling in the first place, and if they read narratives of past kings, they maybe called it "royalty".

    Nice. You mean autism by inbreeding? Touchy subject, in modern times.

    This didn't cross my mind, Enno - I wasn't aware that a genetic factor in Asperger's is currently debated.

    Neither was I. The touchy part lies in the fact that in my country, I read signals that there's more autism among certain groups of immigrants, where there is more inbreeding too. And that's something that you're not allowed to say in some parts of the '
    modern' world.

    I was thinking of identifiable habits in the public lives of kings, their tending to be social loners with a single-minded focus on things that please or benefit themselves without always considering the effects on others. I doubt that such patterns of
    behaviour are due entirely to genes rather than being random and perhaps resulting in some part from early (even perinatal) experience.

    Like growing up in an isolated world, and everyone trying to please you, etc. I get that.

    Emperor Frederick II is no doubt a candidate as well. The list of medieval rulers to consider in such an unanswerable question is surely long.

    I thought about that, and for me famous autistic kin are more like the folklore part of my tree, not that I actually share enough genes with Newton or Cavendish.

    Thanks anyway,

    Enno

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  • From Denis Beauregard@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Nov 24 11:36:58 2021
    On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 13:25:04 +0100, Enno Borgsteede
    <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

    If they thought it needed labelling in the first place, and if they read narratives of past kings, they maybe called it "royalty".

    Nice. You mean autism by inbreeding? Touchy subject, in modern times.

    This didn't cross my mind, Enno - I wasn't aware that a genetic factor in Asperger's is currently debated.

    Neither was I. The touchy part lies in the fact that in my country, I read signals that there's more autism among certain groups of immigrants, where there is more inbreeding too. And that's something that you're not allowed to say in some parts of the '
    modern' world.

    I would say it may depend on how you measure autism.

    If you make assumptions based on the difficulty of
    communicating, then you will find that all immigrants
    with a foreign language are autist ! Off topic in this
    debate about medieval Aspergers...


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/ French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/ Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Nov 24 10:43:20 2021
    On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 2:52:56 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 12:30:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:18:36 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 4:23:08 PM UTC-8, Denis Beauregard wrote:
    On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:04:28 -0800 (PST), John Higgins <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times?
    They called it something else
    So...what did they call it? Enlighten us, please.
    Hans Asperger is born in 1906 and the name of the syndrom is named
    by him, so if it was described before the 1940s, then it must have another name. But I would say it was not described or defined in middle age era.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/
    French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
    Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790
    I agree with you - but Will Johnson seems to think otherwise....
    Reading comprehension
    I said it was not called Aspergers in medieval times
    I cannot help that you want to add extra layers of interpretation to my very clear sentence
    I understood your meaning very clearly. You said "They CALLED it something else" in medieval times. That says they had a name for it, or so you said. That's different than saying "it was NOT called Aspergers in medieval times", which implies that they
    did NOT have a name for it. Which "very clear sentence" of yours are we to believe?

    They had a name for each and every thing.
    That they had a wrong name, is not germane.
    That they lumped it in with a dozen other unrelated symptoms is not germane. There was a name for people with Asperger's in medieval times.
    I will leave it as homework for you to figure out what that might have been.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Stewart@21:1/5 to joseph cook on Thu Nov 25 08:44:42 2021
    On 25-Nov-21 12:04 AM, joseph cook wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 7:25:07 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
    Neither was I. The touchy part lies in the fact that in my country, I read signals that there's more autism among certain groups of immigrants, where there is more inbreeding too. And that's something that you're not allowed to say in some parts of
    the 'modern' world.

    You are allowed to say it. But people will yell at you, because it is an absurd correlation to make. And offensively stupid as well. "Populations" have different rates of medical conditions. "Certain groups of immigrants" makes it seem like
    you are evaluating fitness of groups of people to join your society based on their genetics.

    In the context of this thread, where Enno has told us that the condition applies to himself, I didn't read his observation as a negative
    evaluation of others joining his society. People usually don't wish to
    exclude their counterparts with any particular manifestation of a
    syndrome, however they may seem to be grouped as population sub-sets.

    This is maybe an illustration of the difficulty in communication at both
    ends in a forum where brevity is more welcome than long and nuanced disquisitions.

    Peter Stewart

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Peter Stewart@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Thu Nov 25 08:55:42 2021
    On 25-Nov-21 5:43 AM, Will Johnson wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 2:52:56 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 12:30:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:18:36 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote: >>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 4:23:08 PM UTC-8, Denis Beauregard wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:04:28 -0800 (PST), John Higgins
    <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:45:02 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 5:42:41 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
    Op 21-11-2021 om 15:41 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    I just wanted to note my thoughts. FYI, I am an Asperger's.
    Me too, just to let you know. Any known Aspergers in medieval times? >>>>>>> They called it something else
    So...what did they call it? Enlighten us, please.
    Hans Asperger is born in 1906 and the name of the syndrom is named
    by him, so if it was described before the 1940s, then it must have
    another name. But I would say it was not described or defined in
    middle age era.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/
    French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/
    Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790
    I agree with you - but Will Johnson seems to think otherwise....
    Reading comprehension
    I said it was not called Aspergers in medieval times
    I cannot help that you want to add extra layers of interpretation to my very clear sentence
    I understood your meaning very clearly. You said "They CALLED it something else" in medieval times. That says they had a name for it, or so you said. That's different than saying "it was NOT called Aspergers in medieval times", which implies that they
    did NOT have a name for it. Which "very clear sentence" of yours are we to believe?

    They had a name for each and every thing.
    That they had a wrong name, is not germane.
    That they lumped it in with a dozen other unrelated symptoms is not germane. There was a name for people with Asperger's in medieval times.
    I will leave it as homework for you to figure out what that might have been.


    Condescension is not attractive in writing any more than in person - and
    anyway you are not a schoolmarm in charge of some recalcitrant children.

    You and others may be interested in this:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24585581/

    Asperger's syndrome is not a "right" name, it is just a label that was conveniently attached to what is now often (though less conveniently)
    termed "high-functioning autism spectrum disorder".

    Peter Stewart

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Enno Borgsteede@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 24 22:57:32 2021
    Op 24-11-2021 om 14:04 schreef joseph cook:

    You are allowed to say it. But people will yell at you, because it is an absurd correlation to make. And offensively stupid as well. "Populations" have different rates of medical conditions. "Certain groups of immigrants" makes it seem like
    you are evaluating fitness of groups of people to join your society based on their genetics.

    Not really, since I have the same condition, and these articles do show up in the press, as a probable cause for making people easier to recuit in criminal gangs. Acknowledging that the diagnose may hit anyone, regardless of origin, but that it's more
    prevalent in certain groups, may actually save youngsters from being recruited.

    It's not medieval though ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Denis Beauregard@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Nov 24 18:10:01 2021
    On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 08:55:42 +1100, Peter Stewart
    <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

    Asperger's syndrome is not a "right" name, it is just a label that was >conveniently attached to what is now often (though less conveniently)
    termed "high-functioning autism spectrum disorder".

    They are 2 different things, but the border between them is
    somehow fuzzy.

    There is this page in French by a related association.

    https://www.asperansa.org/asperger_ahn.html

    According to this page, the difference is how old was the
    person when the language appeared.

    As I understand it, Aspergers are learning to speak younger
    compared to the other disorder (which would be translated
    from French as high-level autism).

    You can probably find something similar in your own language
    and also, perhaps, how it would be named in medieval time.

    In my own opinion, autism as is and variations would be
    tagged something like lunatic, asocial or other negative terms.

    I would say that Richard Heart of Lion was asocial when he
    ordered to kill 3000 Muslims during crusades, but that would
    not make him Asperger !

    Someone tagged me as Asperger or autist but I talked about
    that with my doctor who said that was just not true. As I
    understand it, it can be not possible to clearly identify
    someone as Asperger in medieval time. You can presume
    someone was, but not prove it.


    Denis

    --
    Denis Beauregard - généalogiste émérite (FQSG)
    Les Français d'Amérique du Nord - http://www.francogene.com/gfan/gfan/998/ French in North America before 1722 - http://www.francogene.com/gfna/gfna/998/ Sur cédérom/DVD/USB à 1790 - On CD-ROM/DVD/USB to 1790

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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Denis Beauregard on Wed Nov 24 15:48:14 2021
    On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 3:09:58 PM UTC-8, Denis Beauregard wrote:


    I would say that Richard Heart of Lion was asocial when he
    ordered to kill 3000 Muslims during crusades, but that would
    not make him Asperger !


    Denis


    This?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Ayyadieh

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  • From Peter Stewart@21:1/5 to Denis Beauregard on Thu Nov 25 13:07:37 2021
    On 25-Nov-21 10:10 AM, Denis Beauregard wrote:
    On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 08:55:42 +1100, Peter Stewart
    <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

    Asperger's syndrome is not a "right" name, it is just a label that was
    conveniently attached to what is now often (though less conveniently)
    termed "high-functioning autism spectrum disorder".

    They are 2 different things, but the border between them is
    somehow fuzzy.

    There is this page in French by a related association.

    https://www.asperansa.org/asperger_ahn.html

    According to this page, the difference is how old was the
    person when the language appeared.

    As I understand it, Aspergers are learning to speak younger
    compared to the other disorder (which would be translated
    from French as high-level autism).

    You can probably find something similar in your own language
    and also, perhaps, how it would be named in medieval time.

    In my own opinion, autism as is and variations would be
    tagged something like lunatic, asocial or other negative terms.

    I would say that Richard Heart of Lion was asocial when he
    ordered to kill 3000 Muslims during crusades, but that would
    not make him Asperger !

    Richard would surely have been regarded as a predominantly choleric personality, rather than melancholic. Psychopathic violence isn't
    generally associated with Asperger's.

    Peter Stewart

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  • From Paulo Ricardo Canedo@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 25 02:23:54 2021
    Did any of you have the impression that I was Asperger's?

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  • From Enno Borgsteede@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 25 12:23:30 2021
    Op 25-11-2021 om 11:23 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    Did any of you have the impression that I was Asperger's?


    Not really. It's a trait that I expect to see among genealogists, including myself, and my late dad.

    And in fact, it was shown in a local TV program about autism, where one retired autistic guy was interviewed in front of a PC with 3 monitors, on which I recognized a mosaic of film scans as they are available on FamilySearch.

    His wife was also interviewed, saying that she'd hoped to spend more time with him after his retirement, in terms like enjoying the sun in their garden, having a coffee together, etc., and he needed to be told that she expected that, because he had no
    clue whatsoever.

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  • From Enno Borgsteede@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 25 14:39:03 2021
    Op 25-11-2021 om 00:10 schreef Denis Beauregard:
    On Thu, 25 Nov 2021 08:55:42 +1100, Peter Stewart
    <[email protected]> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

    Asperger's syndrome is not a "right" name, it is just a label that was
    conveniently attached to what is now often (though less conveniently)
    termed "high-functioning autism spectrum disorder".

    They are 2 different things, but the border between them is
    somehow fuzzy.

    And today, followers of DSM V are no more allowed to discriminate between them, and some activists even say that the term 'high functioning' is discriminating, and I'm sure that some say that about 'disorder' too. I'm not that woke myself, luckily.

    As I understand it, Aspergers are learning to speak younger
    compared to the other disorder (which would be translated
    from French as high-level autism).

    This might very well be true. I was late with walking, but have no recollection of being late with speaking, at least not according to what my mother told me when I asked.

    In my own opinion, autism as is and variations would be
    tagged something like lunatic, asocial or other negative terms.

    That's right. Some people see it that way, because it really sounds like a disease. That's why I prefer to call my self an autist, or autistic, with the danger of using identity politics.

    Someone tagged me as Asperger or autist but I talked about
    that with my doctor who said that was just not true. As I
    understand it, it can be not possible to clearly identify
    someone as Asperger in medieval time. You can presume
    someone was, but not prove it.

    It depends, I think. When I saw the docudrama Genius, about Albert Einstein, I recognized autistic traits, like him forbidding his spouse to talk to him, unless asked, and even having her sign a contract for that. But I don't know how factual that is.
    Same might be true for the way he neglected his son.

    Fun fact: The first time I heard about Asperger's was when the media wrote in that way about Putin.

    Proof depends on how you see thing. In DSM terms, having a particular group of traits, or symptoms, is regarded as proof, but I doubt if we know enough about the real old guys like Cavendish and Newton to apply that.

    Regards,

    Enno

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