• Re: I'm just gonna leave this here...

    From Charles Ellson@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jun 28 06:58:19 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 07:29:24 +0200, Steve Hayes
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 10:10:49 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Likewise for all the counties with -shire in their names. That doesn't >>include Devon, which doesn't have -shire in its name unless you're a >>grockle (or are referring to Devonshire cream). I imagine that also
    applies to Dorset; I don't think anyone is so gauche as to stick -shire
    on the end of Somerset or Cornwall.

    I only add -shire to the name of a county (current or ceremonial) if
    name of the county town is the same as the name of the county itself,
    to avoid confusion.

    In the case of Gloucester, for example, you can either add -shire to
    the end, or "County of" to the beginning to avoid confusion with the
    city of Gloucester, but as far as I know, there is no town called
    Devon, or Dorset, or Somerset, or Cornwall.

    There is, however, a City of Durham, but there is no county of
    Durhamshire. So it is "County Durham", as in Ireland.

    Lancashire is, like Durham, a County Palatine, but is the County of
    Lancaster -- as far as I know it is the only exception.

    "County of XYZ" is in fairly routine use in more formal official
    documents and notices.

    In the case of Devon, however, a cousin of mine did put in the 1911
    census column which asked for citizenship that all the members of the >household were "Devonshire dumplings" and in the column that asked for >marital status that the maid was "awaiting opportunity".

    (Crossposted to soc.genealogy.britain, to try to keep it alive).

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  • From Steve Hayes@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jun 28 07:29:24 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 10:10:49 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Likewise for all the counties with -shire in their names. That doesn't >include Devon, which doesn't have -shire in its name unless you're a
    grockle (or are referring to Devonshire cream). I imagine that also
    applies to Dorset; I don't think anyone is so gauche as to stick -shire
    on the end of Somerset or Cornwall.

    I only add -shire to the name of a county (current or ceremonial) if
    name of the county town is the same as the name of the county itself,
    to avoid confusion.

    In the case of Gloucester, for example, you can either add -shire to
    the end, or "County of" to the beginning to avoid confusion with the
    city of Gloucester, but as far as I know, there is no town called
    Devon, or Dorset, or Somerset, or Cornwall.

    There is, however, a City of Durham, but there is no county of
    Durhamshire. So it is "County Durham", as in Ireland.

    Lancashire is, like Durham, a County Palatine, but is the County of
    Lancaster -- as far as I know it is the only exception.

    In the case of Devon, however, a cousin of mine did put in the 1911
    census column which asked for citizenship that all the members of the
    household were "Devonshire dumplings" and in the column that asked for
    marital status that the maid was "awaiting opportunity".

    (Crossposted to soc.genealogy.britain, to try to keep it alive).


    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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  • From Peter Moylan@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 9 21:54:14 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On 09/07/24 21:23, JMB99 wrote:

    As Devon was the name of the county in the 7th century, it is
    territorially, much older than the "shires." When used as an
    adjective. e.g., Devonshire cream, Devonshire cattle, the "shire"
    affix may be used correctly, but when a noun is intended, "Devon" is
    the correct term.

    Just to throw some extra fuel on the fire: in Australia, "Devonshire"
    can mean either cream or tea, but "Devon" means a certain kind of sliced sausage. In fact, it's the same meat that we called "German sausage" in
    my childhood.

    (Horrible stuff, but convenient when you're in a rush to prepare school sandwiches. In a similar way, "American cheese" is appropriate when
    haste is more important that taste.)

    --
    Peter Moylan [email protected] http://www.pmoylan.org
    Newcastle, NSW

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  • From JMB99@21:1/5 to Charles Ellson on Tue Jul 9 12:23:04 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On 28/06/2024 06:58, Charles Ellson wrote:
    I don't think anyone is so gauche as to stick -shire
    on the end of Somerset or Cornwall.


    I did a quick newspaper search and lots of examples of Somersetshire.

    Cornwallshire does also occasionally appear.





    Western Morning News - Tuesday 19 December 1950

    WHY WHY 'DEVONSHIRE'?

    Doidge's Annual answers nomenclature query

    Why " Devonshire" and never "Cornwallshire" ? This frequent query is one
    of many answered in the 1951 edition of Doidge's Annual, published by "
    The Western Morning News," Plymouth, at 3s. 6d.

    In an article on "Devon or Devonshire." "S. H." says that strictly
    speaking the "shires" of England are, with a few notable exceptions,
    those new divisions of land which were made after the Saxons, or
    English, had won their land back from the Danes, when "shires" were made
    by "shiring" or "shearing" the recovered land into new districts.

    In later days the "shire-courts," presided over by the shire-reeve,
    gereta or sheriff, were imposed on the older divisions, as on the newer
    ones, but that did not make them "shires" any more than the holding of
    "County" courts at Exeter or Plymouth makes those cities "counties."

    As Devon was the name of the county in the 7th century, it is
    territorially, much older than the "shires." When used as an adjective.
    e.g., Devonshire cream, Devonshire cattle, the "shire" affix may be used correctly, but when a noun is intended, "Devon" is the correct term.

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  • From JMB99@21:1/5 to Peter Moylan on Thu Aug 8 09:05:39 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On 09/07/2024 12:54, Peter Moylan wrote:
    Just to throw some extra fuel on the fire: in Australia, "Devonshire"
    can mean either cream or tea, but "Devon" means a certain kind of sliced sausage. In fact, it's the same meat that we called "German sausage" in
    my childhood.

    (Horrible stuff, but convenient when you're in a rush to prepare school sandwiches. In a similar way, "American cheese" is appropriate when
    haste is more important that taste.)


    I have never heard of Devon sausages in the UK? A search shows they are
    sold in the UK though.





    Devon (sausage)
    Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Devon_(sausage)
    devon sausage from en.wikipedia.org
    Devon is a type of manufactured meat product sold in Australia and New
    Zealand. A slice of devon. Contents. 1 Overview; 2 Terminology; 3 See
    also ...

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  • From Janet@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 8 10:19:59 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    In article <v91u8j$3r4ri$[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    On 09/07/2024 12:54, Peter Moylan wrote:
    Just to throw some extra fuel on the fire: in Australia, "Devonshire"
    can mean either cream or tea, but "Devon" means a certain kind of sliced sausage. In fact, it's the same meat that we called "German sausage" in
    my childhood.

    (Horrible stuff, but convenient when you're in a rush to prepare school sandwiches. In a similar way, "American cheese" is appropriate when
    haste is more important that taste.)


    I have never heard of Devon sausages in the UK? A search shows they are
    sold in the UK though.

    The product sold in Australia as "devon", is what would
    be identified and classified as "luncheon meat" in UK.

    The products sold in UK as "Devon sausages" are not
    luncheon meat. They are sausages ( "bangers") made in
    the county of Devon.

    Janet

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  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 9 09:02:23 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    Le 08/08/2024 à 10:19, Janet a écrit :

    The products sold in UK as "Devon sausages" are not
    luncheon meat. They are sausages ( "bangers") made in
    the county of Devon.

    Bangers, or more arcanely 'snorkers'.

    "Snorkers is a British English colloquialism for sausages. It may have a
    Royal Navy slang origin. The term is probably derived from an earlier
    dialect term for a young pig: Wright's 19th-century English Dialect
    Dictionary notes snorker as a widespread word for a piglet, related to
    the word snork, to grunt or snore" -
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorkers>

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  • From Bertel Lund Hansen@21:1/5 to Hibou on Fri Aug 9 10:46:26 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    Hibou wrote:

    Bangers, or more arcanely 'snorkers'.

    "Snorkers is a British English colloquialism for sausages. It may have a Royal Navy slang origin. The term is probably derived from an earlier
    dialect term for a young pig: Wright's 19th-century English Dialect Dictionary notes snorker as a widespread word for a piglet, related to
    the word snork, to grunt or snore" -
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorkers>

    The Danish word for "snore" is "snorke".

    --
    Bertel
    Kolt, Denmark

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to Hibou on Fri Aug 9 15:54:03 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On 09/08/2024 09:02, Hibou wrote:
    Le 08/08/2024 à 10:19, Janet a écrit :

    The products sold in UK as "Devon sausages" are not
    luncheon meat. They are sausages  ( "bangers") made in
    the county of Devon.

    Bangers, or more arcanely 'snorkers'.

    "Snorkers is a British English colloquialism for sausages. It may have a Royal Navy slang origin. The term is probably derived from an earlier
    dialect term for a young pig: Wright's 19th-century English Dialect Dictionary notes snorker as a widespread word for a piglet, related to
    the word snork, to grunt or snore" -
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorkers>


    See "The Cruel Sea"
    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to Graeme Wall on Sat Aug 10 09:34:44 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 09/08/2024 09:02, Hibou wrote:
    Le 08/08/2024 � 10:19, Janet a �crit :

    The products sold in UK as "Devon sausages" are not
    luncheon meat. They are sausages ( "bangers") made in
    the county of Devon.

    Bangers, or more arcanely 'snorkers'.

    "Snorkers is a British English colloquialism for sausages. It may have a Royal Navy slang origin. The term is probably derived from an earlier dialect term for a young pig: Wright's 19th-century English Dialect Dictionary notes snorker as a widespread word for a piglet, related to
    the word snork, to grunt or snore" - <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorkers>


    See "The Cruel Sea"

    I just did.
    [conversations in the wardroom]
    ====
    Bennett's contribution lay in the realm of eating. ... He had formed an attachment for the crudest item in the wardroom store-cupboard, tinned sausages, which he knew colloquially as 'snorkers': they made an almost
    daily appearance on the menu, either at lunch or dinner, and the
    recurrent exclamation -'Snorkers! Good-oh!' - with which he greeted
    them, sounded the knell of appetite. Then he would sit down, rub his
    hands, help himself liberally to Worcester sauce, and go to with a will.
    In fishing circles he would have been described as a coarse feeder.
    ===

    BTW, this is officer feed. The men must have gotten worse,

    Jan

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to J. J. Lodder on Sat Aug 10 09:00:12 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On 10/08/2024 08:34, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    Graeme Wall <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 09/08/2024 09:02, Hibou wrote:
    Le 08/08/2024 à 10:19, Janet a écrit :

    The products sold in UK as "Devon sausages" are not
    luncheon meat. They are sausages ( "bangers") made in
    the county of Devon.

    Bangers, or more arcanely 'snorkers'.

    "Snorkers is a British English colloquialism for sausages. It may have a >>> Royal Navy slang origin. The term is probably derived from an earlier
    dialect term for a young pig: Wright's 19th-century English Dialect
    Dictionary notes snorker as a widespread word for a piglet, related to
    the word snork, to grunt or snore" -
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorkers>


    See "The Cruel Sea"

    I just did.
    [conversations in the wardroom]
    ====
    Bennett's contribution lay in the realm of eating. ... He had formed an attachment for the crudest item in the wardroom store-cupboard, tinned sausages, which he knew colloquially as 'snorkers': they made an almost
    daily appearance on the menu, either at lunch or dinner, and the
    recurrent exclamation -'Snorkers! Good-oh!' - with which he greeted
    them, sounded the knell of appetite. Then he would sit down, rub his
    hands, help himself liberally to Worcester sauce, and go to with a will.
    In fishing circles he would have been described as a coarse feeder.
    ===

    BTW, this is officer feed. The men must have gotten worse,


    On a small ship like a corvette, they got the same.


    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From Hibou@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 10 09:17:50 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    Le 09/08/2024 à 15:54, Graeme Wall a écrit :
    On 09/08/2024 09:02, Hibou wrote:

    Bangers, or more arcanely 'snorkers'.

    "Snorkers is a British English colloquialism for sausages. It may have
    a Royal Navy slang origin. The term is probably derived from an
    earlier dialect term for a young pig: Wright's 19th-century English
    Dialect Dictionary notes snorker as a widespread word for a piglet,
    related to the word snork, to grunt or snore" -
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorkers>

    See "The Cruel Sea"

    Yes, that's where I first encountered the term.

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