• Re: Deconstructing Simon Wiesenthal

    From Croatoan@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 2 02:44:40 2024
    XPost: can.politics, talk.politics.guns, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    The Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, California, is named after
    the famed Austrian Nazi-hunter, Simon Wiesenthal, a connection that
    turns out to be appropriate in disturbing but unexpected ways. That
    is, both Simon Wiesenthal and the Center named after him have been
    accused of flagrant lying, exaggerations and half-truths. Wiesenthal's >confabulations were never a matter of published discourse among
    scholars, so far as this writer can determine, nor were they popular >knowledge until quite recently. In any case, it is now known that
    Wiesenthal, a born story-teller, rarely let the facts get in the way
    of a good story-in fact many of the things he claimed to have done
    were fabrications. This recently came to light with the publication,
    in June of 2009, of Hunting Evil, by British Author Guy Walters, in
    which he characterizes Simon Wiesenthal as "a liar-and a bad one at
    that." Wiesenthal, he maintains, would "concoct outrageous stories
    about his war years and make false claims about his academic career."
    Walters found that there were "so many inconsistencies between his
    three main memoirs and between those memoirs and contemporaneous
    documents, that it is impossible to establish a reliable narrative
    from them. Wiesenthal's scant regard for the truth makes it possible
    to doubt everything he ever wrote or said."1


    Another Hitler hater. Someone call Trump.

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  • From Susan Cohen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 2 02:42:23 2024
    XPost: can.politics, talk.politics.guns, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    The Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, California, is named after
    the famed Austrian Nazi-hunter, Simon Wiesenthal, a connection that
    turns out to be appropriate in disturbing but unexpected ways. That
    is, both Simon Wiesenthal and the Center named after him have been
    accused of flagrant lying, exaggerations and half-truths. Wiesenthal�s confabulations were never a matter of published discourse among
    scholars, so far as this writer can determine, nor were they popular
    knowledge until quite recently. In any case, it is now known that
    Wiesenthal, a born story-teller, rarely let the facts get in the way
    of a good story�in fact many of the things he claimed to have done
    were fabrications. This recently came to light with the publication,
    in June of 2009, of Hunting Evil, by British Author Guy Walters, in
    which he characterizes Simon Wiesenthal as �a liar�and a bad one at
    that.� Wiesenthal, he maintains, would �concoct outrageous stories
    about his war years and make false claims about his academic career.�
    Walters found that there were �so many inconsistencies between his
    three main memoirs and between those memoirs and contemporaneous
    documents, that it is impossible to establish a reliable narrative
    from them. Wiesenthal�s scant regard for the truth makes it possible
    to doubt everything he ever wrote or said.�1

    Daniel Finkelstein, grandson of the founder of the Wiener Library in
    London, one of the oldest and most reputable institutions for the
    study of the Holocaust, had this to say in an August 2009 article in
    the London Times about Guy Walters� Hunting Evil: �Walters�s
    documentary evidence on Wiesenthal�s inconsistencies and lies is
    impeccable. He shows how the Nazi hunter�s accounts of his wartime
    experiences are contradictory and implausible. He demonstrates that he
    had no role, contrary to his own assertion, in the capture of Adolf
    Eichmann. He pitilessly dissects Wiesenthal�s overblown claims about
    the number he brought to justice, suggesting it was not much more than
    a handful.�2

    So far the Wiener Library itself has not responded directly to this
    revaluation of Wiesenthal. That is interesting because one assumes
    that they, like many others in the field of Holocaust Studies, may
    have been aware for some time that there were problems with
    Wiesenthal�s resume.

    So what is the truth about Simon Wiesenthal? Born in 1908 in Galicia, Wiesenthal attended the Czech Technical University in Prague in 1929,
    where he had a reputation as a gifted raconteur. (Walters says he
    appeared as �a stand-up comedian,� which could be a British
    approximation of the cabaret theatre popular at that time.) Wiesenthal
    claimed to have graduated from Czech Technical, but records show that
    he didn�t. He also maintained that he studied at Lwow Polytechnic in
    Galicia in 1935, but there is no record of him ever attending classes
    there. Wiesenthal likewise claimed to have operated his own
    architectural office and built elegant villas, but again Polish
    records do not support this. Instead he appears to have worked as a
    supervisor in a Lviv furniture factory from 1935 until 1939, a
    somewhat more mundane occupation, and one that Wiesenthal himself
    acknowledged before he became a famous celebrity in Vienna.

    During the Second World War, Wiesenthal was apprehended by the Nazis,
    and was in at least six different Nazi camps. For reasons unknown,
    however, he claimed later to have been in 13 of them. This raises the
    question that must inevitably come up when contemplating Wiesenthal�s
    stories about himself. Being in a single Nazi camp would clearly be a
    horrific, mind-blowing experience, much less being in six of them.
    (This writer cannot confirm which ones were death camps and which ones
    labor or concentration camps.) So why did Wiesenthal feel it necessary
    to inflate the number of camps he�d been in to 13, particularly since
    such claims were likely to be checked later?

    Part of the answer seems to be that Wiesenthal was a natural-born
    confabulator and liar who had a powerful need to create the persona of
    a superhero. But that alone does not explain his behavior. The
    Holocaust raises questions about human nature, and there is a demand
    for accounts that can explain, rationalize, and create a moral context
    for it. Wiesenthal offered people a plausible narrative with a moral
    framework: Nazis incarcerated him; he miraculously escaped; he now
    tracked them down. The systemic evil of the Holocaust was so huge and
    so threatening that it could be successfully addressed only by a
    superman whose capacity to survive evil and punish transgressors was
    larger than life. Wiesenthal was acutely aware of this; and his
    heart-stopping accounts of last-minutes escapes from the Nazis played
    to this anxiety. And the fact that he was bringing masses of Nazi war
    criminals to justice was the happy ending to the success story, the
    kind peopled wanted to hear; but as Walters demonstrates in Hunting
    Evil, at least one of Wiesenthal�s accounts of last-minute escapes
    from the Nazis can be shown to be a fabrication, and others are
    questionable.

    After the war, Wiesenthal founded two organizations that sought to
    collect and centralize information on Nazi war criminals at large.
    Sometimes these war criminals were �hiding in plain sight,� in the
    sense that governments knew where they were but lacked the political
    will to arrest them. The main function of Wiesenthal�s organizations,
    then, was to keep the issue current in the public eye�and he had the
    kind of personality, and the public relations skills, to do just that.
    This is the real reason for Wiesenthal�s notoriety. The organizations
    set up by Wiesenthal were research organizations, and had no real
    investigative functions, such as law enforcement might have, and no
    power to arrest people. Guy Walters concludes (correctly, in my
    opinion) that the disinterestedness of western governments in hunting
    down Nazi criminals was far more repugnant morally than Wiesenthal�s experiments with the truth. That said, the fact that Wiesenthal told
    so many unnecessary lies, and that people who might have suspected
    this said nothing to challenge them, is one more example of the
    Holocaust�s ability to corrupt.

    Although Wiesenthal claimed to have brought over a thousand Nazi
    criminals to justice, he generated information leading to the arrest
    of less than a hundred at most. His most outrageous claim was that he participated in the tracking down of Adolf Eichmann. This was, and
    remains, a falsehood�the tracking and kidnapping of Eichmann was the
    work of Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, and Wiesenthal�s
    involvement was limited to passing on whatever information he had to
    them. This inconvenient reality was widely known�certainly it was
    known to Mossad, which despised and resented Wiesenthal�s self-serving stories�but apparently few people were willing to question
    Wiesenthal�s many claims.

    Except in Austria, that is, where Wiesenthal was for a long time a controversial figure. It the 1970s, Wiesenthal publicly berated
    Austrian Prime Minister Bruno Kreisky for having so many ex-Nazis in
    his cabinet�and in this, Wiesenthal was undoubtedly right. The
    controversy he stirred up was especially important because Austrians
    had, up to that time, generally avoided much public discussion about
    their own responsibility for Nazi crimes; and Wiesenthal may have
    welcomed the opportunity to open up this issue when he made his
    sensational�but accurate�accusations about Kreisky�s cabinet choices.
    Kreisky, a Jewish Social Democrat, hinted that Wiesenthal had survived
    the war only because he collaborated with the Gestapo; but Wiesenthal
    sued for libel and won. Wiesenthal also drew fire for emphasizing that
    others besides Jews died in the gas chambers, which brought him into
    conflict with Elie Wiesel, who took the view that the Holocaust should
    be seen as an exclusively Jewish event. Some of Wiesenthal�s ideas
    were good ones�how ironic, then, that his ideas were given serious consideration only because of the rough-and-tumble public persona that Wiesenthal had invented for himself as part of his entrepreneurial and overly-imaginative self-promotion as a swashbuckling Nazi-hunter.

    Wiesenthal received practically every honor known to the 20th century,
    over 100 of them. Mainly because of his own self-promotion, Wiesenthal
    became much more than an author with some dubious and not particularly well-written books�he became a secular saint. But of what secular
    religion was Saint Wiesenthal the exemplar? The trouble with
    Wiesenthal was not his extraordinary efforts to focus public attention
    on Nazi criminals�the problem was, and is, that his accounts of his
    own experiences were never challenged by people who professed to have
    an interest in historical truth. His addiction to confabulation made
    him a prisoner of what Norman Finkelstein has called The Holocaust
    Industry, which we may describe as the systematic use of the Holocaust
    for personal and organizational gain.

    We are left with the sense that perhaps some who noticed discrepancies
    in Wiesenthal�s books said nothing because they were afraid of being
    denounced as anti-Semites. Author Guy Walters refers to this in his
    July 2009 article in the Sunday Times. �Some may feel I am too harsh
    on [Wiesenthal] and that I run a professional danger in seemingly
    allying myself with a vile host of neo-Nazis, revisionists, Holocaust
    deniers and anti-Semites. I belong firmly outside any of these squalid
    camps and it is my intention to wrestle criticism of Wiesenthal away
    from their clutches. His figure is a complex and important one. If
    there was a motive for his duplicity, it may well have been rooted in
    good intentions.� Guy Walters made this caveat a month after his book
    came out last summer; the fact that he made it at all indicates the
    sensitivity with which a professional historian must approach anything
    having to do with the Holocaust.

    In fact, the appearance of Walters� book has some of the
    characteristics of a literary campaign, although not necessarily of pre-arrangement. Walters� Hunting Evil was published in Britain on
    June 18, 2009, at the beginning of last summer. A month later, in
    July, an article by Walters appeared in the Sunday Times, which set
    forth his reasons for revealing Wiesenthal�s duplicities. (One might
    think that because something is true might be reason enough for a
    historian to reveal it.) In August, 2009, a month later, Daniel
    Finkelstein�s supportive review appears in the Jewish Chronicle,
    validating Walters� research. Finkelstein�s review was pivotal,
    since�as the grandson of the founder of the world�s oldest library on
    Holocaust history�he is assumed to speak with an authority that others
    lack, including perhaps Guy Walters himself.

    That is not to say that the above was part of a coordinated campaign.
    Walters wrote on his website that he does not know Finkelstein, and
    based on internal evidence this writer believes that to be true. It
    simply indicates how complicated telling the truth can become when one
    writes about the Holocaust, and how important it is for many
    historians to carefully consider the public-relations angle before
    revealing things that might make people uncomfortable. In Guy Walters�
    case, he received support for his findings from a man whose
    credentials in Holocaust Studies cannot be challenged. (There is at
    least one new book about Wiesenthal coming out soon, which after the
    Walters� revelations will almost surely be forced to deal with obvious discrepancies in Wiesenthal�s narrative.)

    There is ongoing fallout to the Walters� book in other areas. On
    November 26, 2009, there appeared a sensational Associated Press
    report (carried on Walters� website) that 12 members of the 15 member international advisory board of the Vienna Wiesenthal Institute for
    Holocaust Studies have resigned, apparently after a hysterical uproar
    about the availability of research material to scholars. (The AP
    report gives as the reason for the international hullabaloo certain
    objections by scholars �that restrictions on access to files made
    independent research impossible.�) Inevitably, one of those involved
    in the AP report warned that unrestricted access to the Institute�s
    files might encourage �holocaust deniers.� The opposite seems much
    more likely. The longer people are denied access to primary sources,
    the more doubts it will create about how objectively historians are
    able to write about the Holocaust.

    Beginning with the publication in 1961 of Raul Hilberg�s The
    Destruction of the European Jews, people on the Left, political and
    cultural progressives, and some psychologists sought to deconstruct
    the Holocaust so that they could learn how systemic evil operates. If
    the Shoah was history�s greatest crime, why not try to understand how
    it happened, so such crimes could be thwarted in the future? That was
    the right approach to take, but it quickly led to a kind of truth that
    many people did not want to accept�that there is a Nazi in every
    person, and that any tribe, national group or country in the world
    could experience the same moral collapse as Germany experienced, given
    the right conditions. That was too threatening for many people,
    because they did not want to acknowledge how deep evil ran in human
    nature.

    And it was, also, the ultimate threat to the neo-cons that were
    beginning to gain power in the US. If the same moral collapse that
    happened in Germany could happen elsewhere, such an analysis could be
    applied anywhere, which meant that the big neo-conservative
    foundations could not control discourse about the Holocaust. An
    objective deconstruction of the development of evil in Germany could
    even serve as a guide to what is happening in Israel. The neo-cons
    could not allow that to happen, because of their position that
    Israel�s government could never be criticized; and because the neo-conservatives did not want a truly objective deconstruction of the Holocaust that could teach people how to defeat systemic evil. On the contrary�they sought to create their own systemic evil in the US and
    in the Middle East, by using the Holocaust to arouse fear, anger,
    guilt and aggression, as well as religious nationalism generally.

    Invoking the Holocaust in social and political discourse became a way
    for the powerful neo-cons and the Israel Lobby to use the unresolved
    trauma of the Holocaust, in some cases to generate ideas and in other
    cases to suppress them. The use of the Holocaust to manipulate people
    and societies to uncritically support Israel depends on a
    particularization of the Holocaust�it insists, in other words, that
    Nazi evil cannot be compared to any other form of systemic evil. It
    insists that the causes of German moral collapse (violent nationalism, fanatical identification with victim status, deep feelings of
    inferiority, a longing for apocalyptic solutions) cannot be applied
    anywhere else. That is despicable nonsense.

    Not only can the causes of German moral collapse be seen in other
    nations and situations; such an analysis must be applied to other
    nations and situations, if we are to learn anything about how systemic
    evil works. Neo-cons generally dislike that, because they wish to
    discuss the Holocaust only within a context of Jewish exceptionalism.
    But sadly, there�s a Nazi in everybody�in fact, that�s the most
    important thing that the Holocaust teachers us. As Avraham Burg
    writes, today�s Israel feels a lot like Weimer, not because Israeli
    culture is so similar to central Europe�s culture, but because the
    decline into evil is always similar wherever it occurs. How could
    Israel not look like Weimer, when so much of what passes for a
    national consciousness in Israel is simply trauma from the Holocaust,
    which people do not attempt to deconstruct along universal lines but
    to which they cling as personal as well as national identities?

    It was not until after Simon Wiesenthal died in 2005 that a British
    historian was able to write frankly about the duplicity in Simon
    Wiesenthal�s stories. Again I must ask, why did not the people who may
    have known about Wiesenthal�s casual relationship with the truth speak
    up about it? Predictably, the Simon Wiesenthal Center of Los Angeles, California, is in no hurry to accept this new historical appraisal of
    their namesake�their website, in fact, faithfully replicates many of Wiesenthal�s lies and inaccuracies. But that should not surprise us,
    because the Simon Wiesenthal Center, like Simon Wiesenthal himself, is
    not interested in historical truth, nor is it committed to teaching
    about the history of the Holocaust in all its complexity. The Simon
    Wiesenthal Center is, rather, committed to using the Holocaust to
    raise money, and using the trauma associated with it to promote the
    Center�s extremist political perspectives.


    https://mondoweiss.net/2010/01/deconstructing-simon-wiesenthal/

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  • From Lil dwarf Rudey@21:1/5 to Susan Cohen on Wed Oct 2 12:42:14 2024
    XPost: can.politics, talk.politics.guns, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh

    Susan Cohen wrote:
    The Simon Wiesenthal

    Fuck off Rudence!


    Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
    Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party and a few dozen other socks
    wrote their usual multiple death threats against Trump: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    From: Governor Swill <[email protected]>
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    Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
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    Oh poor me I got shot at ...

    Swill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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    Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

    Swill

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: J Carlson <[email protected]>
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    No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
    thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
    is an important step to getting there.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:


    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
    18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the Presidency
    U.S. Code
    Notes
    prev | next
    (a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
    or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
    letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
    threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
    the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
    President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
    of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
    knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
    President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
    order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
    shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
    or both.
    (b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
    candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
    respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
    held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
    accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
    phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
    order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
    United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
    (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
    Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L. 97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

    9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
    Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
    Service Protectees
    The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
    supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
    caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
    the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
    U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
    United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
    involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
    settlement involving a § 871 charge.


    https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

    PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
    for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
    Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
    counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
    and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

    The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
    living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
    to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
    November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
    statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
    U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
    crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
    series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

    Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
    Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
    up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
    of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
    five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release.

    A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
    criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
    presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
    guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

    The United States Secret Service is conducting the investigation in this
    case. The United States Attorney’s Office, District of Arizona, is
    handling the prosecution.


    Those can be reported here:

    https://tips.fbi.gov/home

    https://www.justice.gov/action-center/report-crime-or-submit-complaint

    https://www.secretservice.gov/contact

    https://www.dhs.gov/see-something-say-something/reporting/california


    Fellow citizens, won't you join in ending Rudey's terrorism here?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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