• Arindam: Japan tried hydrogen and found it tough going

    From gandikotam@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 26 18:04:53 2023
    According to the following article, Japan tried H2 and found it to be difficult to implement a clean energy. Apparently they have used "gray" H2 that is not toxins free as it can contain methane. Seems like the output of shift reaction with coal as clean
    H2 with electrolysis is costly. Any ideas on how to make clean H2 that is not energy intensive and extremely costly?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/japan-tried-to-build-a-hydrogen-society-it-backfired-spectacularly/ar-AA16LOpR?cvid=1204dda4e7b04595b79381bbc756e3cb

    Regards

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  • From Arindam Banerjee@21:1/5 to gandikotam on Thu Jan 26 18:12:01 2023
    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 07:34:57 UTC+5:30, gandikotam wrote:
    According to the following article, Japan tried H2 and found it to be difficult to implement a clean energy. Apparently they have used "gray" H2 that is not toxins free as it can contain methane. Seems like the output of shift reaction with coal as
    clean H2 with electrolysis is costly. Any ideas on how to make clean H2 that is not energy intensive and extremely costly?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/japan-tried-to-build-a-hydrogen-society-it-backfired-spectacularly/ar-AA16LOpR?cvid=1204dda4e7b04595b79381bbc756e3cb

    Regards

    Electrolysis from treated sea water, that from using the surplus power from renewables, mainly solar. It will be the cleanest hydrogen. Pre oxygen will be a by product.

    The lossless by design, extremely rugged, everlasting like say mobile network, global, organically growing Hydrogen Transmission Network will solve the storage and transport issues in one stroke. Pure water will be a by product.

    Cheers,
    Arindam Banerjee

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  • From Arindam Banerjee@21:1/5 to gandikotam on Thu Jan 26 18:17:38 2023
    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 07:34:57 UTC+5:30, gandikotam wrote:
    According to the following article, Japan tried H2 and found it to be difficult to implement a clean energy. Apparently they have used "gray" H2 that is not toxins free as it can contain methane. Seems like the output of shift reaction with coal as
    clean H2 with electrolysis is costly. Any ideas on how to make clean H2 that is not energy intensive and extremely costly?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/japan-tried-to-build-a-hydrogen-society-it-backfired-spectacularly/ar-AA16LOpR?cvid=1204dda4e7b04595b79381bbc756e3cb

    Regards

    As for the cost, yes electrolysis is costly but that is because of bad design. When huge surplus power LOCALLY like a giant solar or wind farm or tidal or geo is CONVERTED just there to hydrogen and stored, there will be great efficiency gains. Linking
    those storage tanks or buffers with special steel pipes and control systems for accounting and maintenance will form the HTN.

    I will give some links, for a conference paper, the main work done is in htnresearch.com
    a site maintained by Ilya Shambat.

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  • From gandikotam@21:1/5 to Arindam Banerjee on Fri Jan 27 14:12:51 2023
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 6:17:41 PM UTC-8, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 07:34:57 UTC+5:30, gandikotam wrote:
    According to the following article, Japan tried H2 and found it to be difficult to implement a clean energy. Apparently they have used "gray" H2 that is not toxins free as it can contain methane. Seems like the output of shift reaction with coal as
    clean H2 with electrolysis is costly. Any ideas on how to make clean H2 that is not energy intensive and extremely costly?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/japan-tried-to-build-a-hydrogen-society-it-backfired-spectacularly/ar-AA16LOpR?cvid=1204dda4e7b04595b79381bbc756e3cb

    Regards
    As for the cost, yes electrolysis is costly but that is because of bad design. When huge surplus power LOCALLY like a giant solar or wind farm or tidal or geo is CONVERTED just there to hydrogen and stored, there will be great efficiency gains. Linking
    those storage tanks or buffers with special steel pipes and control systems for accounting and maintenance will form the HTN.

    I will give some links, for a conference paper, the main work done is in htnresearch.com
    a site maintained by Ilya Shambat.

    Let's assume fusion works on Earth. Then we can use the energy to run electrolysis of water for extracting H2. No doubt H2 is a preferred fuel. But so is the rechargeable battery which is unstable and can start fires. No matter how well the theory is, in
    implementation the engineers and technicians bungle something up not to mention sabotage. Can we expect H2 to be any safer than a rechargeable battery? I know you did ground-breaking work on H2 storage and transmission. So I'd assume you have analyzed
    all the consequences.

    Thanks

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  • From Arindam Banerjee@21:1/5 to Arindam Banerjee on Fri Jan 27 21:20:28 2023
    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 13:17:41 UTC+11, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 07:34:57 UTC+5:30, gandikotam wrote:
    According to the following article, Japan tried H2 and found it to be difficult to implement a clean energy. Apparently they have used "gray" H2 that is not toxins free as it can contain methane. Seems like the output of shift reaction with coal as
    clean H2 with electrolysis is costly. Any ideas on how to make clean H2 that is not energy intensive and extremely costly?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/japan-tried-to-build-a-hydrogen-society-it-backfired-spectacularly/ar-AA16LOpR?cvid=1204dda4e7b04595b79381bbc756e3cb

    Regards
    As for the cost, yes electrolysis is costly but that is because of bad design. When huge surplus power LOCALLY like a giant solar or wind farm or tidal or geo is CONVERTED just there to hydrogen and stored, there will be great efficiency gains. Linking
    those storage tanks or buffers with special steel pipes and control systems for accounting and maintenance will form the HTN.

    I will give some links, for a conference paper, the main work done is in htnresearch.com
    a site maintained by Ilya Shambat.
    The paper is at
    DOI:10.1109/SMART.2015.7399250

    Load balancing system involving the collection, distribution and usage of energy using the proposed Hydrogen Transmission Network as a complement or alternative to high voltage transmission

    It has received 60 full text views, so not so bad.

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  • From Arindam Banerjee@21:1/5 to gandikotam on Fri Jan 27 21:38:36 2023
    On Saturday, 28 January 2023 at 09:12:55 UTC+11, gandikotam wrote:
    On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 6:17:41 PM UTC-8, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
    On Friday, 27 January 2023 at 07:34:57 UTC+5:30, gandikotam wrote:
    According to the following article, Japan tried H2 and found it to be difficult to implement a clean energy. Apparently they have used "gray" H2 that is not toxins free as it can contain methane. Seems like the output of shift reaction with coal as
    clean H2 with electrolysis is costly. Any ideas on how to make clean H2 that is not energy intensive and extremely costly?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/japan-tried-to-build-a-hydrogen-society-it-backfired-spectacularly/ar-AA16LOpR?cvid=1204dda4e7b04595b79381bbc756e3cb

    Regards
    As for the cost, yes electrolysis is costly but that is because of bad design. When huge surplus power LOCALLY like a giant solar or wind farm or tidal or geo is CONVERTED just there to hydrogen and stored, there will be great efficiency gains.
    Linking those storage tanks or buffers with special steel pipes and control systems for accounting and maintenance will form the HTN.

    I will give some links, for a conference paper, the main work done is in htnresearch.com
    a site maintained by Ilya Shambat.
    Let's assume fusion works on Earth.

    There is no such thing as fusion. There is such a thing as fission of deuterium which causes the energy attributed to fusion. It is deuterium fission that causes the hydrogen bomb to work and accounts for much of the solar energy. Once we get rid of
    stupid notions like entropy, the so-called laws of thermodynamics, relativity and quantum, and understand the workings of the universe on a simple, natural basis, as I have shown, then most of the problems on Earth will simly vanish, and we will all lead
    better lives.

    Then we can use the energy to run electrolysis of water for extracting H2.

    I have given some idea about how fissioning of deuterium can cause enormous energy. They are there is article I posted in sci.physics in 2020-21. I believe they are trying that out and pretending it to be fusion at work. Deuterium fission can replace
    the fossil fuel energy that is certain and reliable, unlike the renewables like solar power, wind, tidal, etc. So yes, all sorts of sources can provide the energy for electrolysis for generation of H2 and O2.


    No doubt H2 is a preferred fuel. But so is the rechargeable battery which is unstable and can start fires. No matter how well the theory is, in implementation the engineers and technicians bungle something up not to mention sabotage. Can we expect H2
    to be any safer than a rechargeable battery?

    I believe so. The H will be piped in steel pipes in the HTN, with adequately designed storage tanks and control systems that can shut off sections if there is sabotage. It is vast in scope, so sabotage will not cripple it. Yes H2 is flammable, so must
    be treated with respect. We already have piped gas to homes. I have it in Melbourne. No problems so far, but we do respect gas and are careful. Anyway, to begin with the H2 will be converted to electricity by fuel cells or special turbines and feed the
    local grid. In remote areas there may be direct conversion at the premise. Can run both EVs or fuel cell cars which will have more range and power. And yes H2 will power the new class of electric motor based upon my new physics.

    EVs are a temporary phenomenon, based on hype. The real thing is the fuel cell car running on hydrogen. And that is what will be for a few more generations to come, until they perfect the perpetual motion machine to generate megawatts of power.

    I know you did ground-breaking work on H2 storage and transmission. So I'd assume you have analyzed all the consequences.

    Not really, I have proposed the HTN as a means to solve those two great issues in one stroke.
    That will have initial cost no doubt, but over time it will pay off until hydrogen is practically free when the capital costs are recovered.
    Like I paid a sum for the solar power at home, and in a few years it paid for itself. Now I am getting lower electricity bills.
    Besides it will be a great boon in sparse areas, and areas prone to natural disasters.

    Thanks

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