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    From Jos Boersema@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 30 19:44:42 2023
    Someone on a forum said they where angry with Hashem about the war in
    Israel and such, including personal tragedies, and "where is the
    moshiach" ...

    Reply:

    (I wonder if I get banned for this, so be it !) I think most people do
    not take the Torah anywhere near seriously enough. It says so clearly
    in the Torah: if the people of Israel do not return to the Torah, every
    round of punishment is 7 times worse. You have got to be kidding if you
    think the Jewish people are close to the Torah, including all forms of Rabbinical Judaism since they all follow things like the 'prozbul'. Did
    you know that on Oct. 7 2022, the Nova festival had a gigantic Buddha
    statue, and they danced before it ? You realize that this is a death
    penalty level offense under the law of the Torah (assuming everything
    was in proper operation) ? It is a death penalty to deceive the Jewish
    people with idols. So many of you, what I read on this Reddit ... it
    is all so casual. It is the "Reddit way of talking". That's fine, it's
    good if things are friendly, but you are talking about the Torah now,
    which is thousands of years old, and which has - as mentioned - the
    death penalty for all kinds of offenses. Breaking the Shabbos is already
    a death penalty. Homosexuality is definitely a death penalty. My point
    is, that the Torah is a severe law in that sense. It isn't a guide to
    a candy store, or a book with poems and you just choose what you like,
    so long as the party is good. Is the Jubilee on land honored in the land
    of Israel ? Absolutely not, everyone knows that. If you ask Hashem, if
    you credit Hashem with Creation, I assume you are speaking of the God -
    the Creator - who gave the Jewish people a law, written on 2 plates and
    later in the 5 books. If you read that book, you will find (if I recall correctly), that if these laws are not honored, all kinds of bad things
    start to happen to Israel.

    The waves of punishments get worse and worse (I can look it up but I'm
    sure you could do it just as easily). Every round of punishment gets 7
    times worse. If you where full out with the Torah, you could go as far
    as saying: Hashem executed the people at the Nova festival, for their
    idolatry, and that was his right and perhaps obligation to do. However,
    the guilt over this festival goes further, because Israel allowed it,
    and sides with it, because "it's all just fun and games, everything is
    fine." Well, that can be your opinion, that is a human opinion, a private opinion and probably an emotion. Don't confuse that opinion with what you
    can read in the Torah, and what Hashem has is asking of you as a people,
    as the "holy people" of the Torah. You may not comprehend the laws in
    the Torah, such as the Jubilee or why the debts are to be forgiven in the
    7th year, but understanding or not, to be a Jew - so I read the Torah at
    least, and that's my opinion if you want - to be a Jew is to honor those
    laws, even if you don't yet quite understand them. You see that Hashem
    will basically be obligated to destroy and chase out the people of the
    'holy land' because they are going against the Torah.

    The holocaust also happened because of this. I see it as the last round of punishment. One third of the Jewish people died. I don't know what 7 times
    the Nazi holocaust is going to exactly mean, but one possible computation
    is: 7 times a third will be lost. This works out to 95% will be lost, one
    in twenty will survive, which oddly enough works out as close to 600 000.

    Besides this, I don't know why bad things happened to you personally. I
    don't know why that has happened in particular. It could have all kinds
    of reasons. Perhaps the worst happens to the best people, so that they
    become even better and more understanding of the suffering of others,
    so that they can help even more. However on a National level, Israel
    is breaking the Torah on a collective level. By the rules of the Torah,
    Israel cannot be in the 'holy land'. The Rabbis also, they also break down
    the Torah, for example with their prozbul. Some Rabbis in Yerushalayim are
    now making a Sun Disk idol, called the Lamp of Helena. They want to put it
    on the inner gate of a remade Temple (3rd Temple). I understand perfectly
    that they will claim that it is not an idol but just something nice,
    a time keeper if you will, because it would signal the morning for the
    prayer. However it is a Sun Disk idol, it reflects the morning sun. Sun
    light reflection is very bright. The Temple never had such a thing, it
    wasn't ordained by Moshe or anyone. The Temple has it's own lights, the Menorah, and that is apparently enough. Do you see the disaster that is
    in the making ? They want a 3rd Temple, for a Nation who not even close
    to returning to major laws such as the Jubilee on land who are breaking
    down the Torah left right and center, and then on this whole chaos they
    want to have Israel bow down to a reflection of the sunlight, and they
    want to call that the Redemption ! This mess is to be the example to the Nations ?! I am at least convinced that heaven cannot let something like
    this go on. The time of it's punishment seems to be coming.

    You see, kinda harsher words like this, it isn't liked by this generation,
    Jew and gentile alike. They don't wan to hear about serious topics,
    serious consequences, discipline of law, or mistakes made which need to
    be corrected. Everything has to be a sort of entertainment. Therefore I
    think, what you see now is nothing yet, incomparable to the hell which
    is going to hit the whole world, probably in the coming decades, perhaps
    even years. For some, it has already started. I'm sorry you may be one
    of those people. Humanity needs to find peace in general, and if that
    isn't going to be in a nice way, then humanity will have to suffer the consequences of their own evil. If they still refuse to learn in the end,
    the whole thing may have to be entirely destroyed.

    The Torah is that serious ! Everything destroyed, because there was
    no Torah, no truth, no justice, no peace, thus no future. Things are
    much more serious than people want to know about. There, I vented my
    opinion ;-). Have a good day. P.S. On the Redemption, I don't think
    it is possible with the state of Israel being what it is. The Zionists
    thought they could establish the State of Israel by force, but without
    the Torah. Remember, they are the ones who opposed the Torah. The way I
    see it is that Hashem left them to do their thing, knowing it would fail,
    and perhaps some Jews would see how bad it has gone without the Torah,
    and that this might bring them back to Him. We can only hope I guess
    ... But despite everything, I think the Redemption has to be close now !!

    *

    P.S. I cannot say to these people that the Redemption is Today if you
    listen (if you know what I mean, and yes that is what I mean), because I
    have bad experiences with Jewish people and this topic. They don't want
    to hear it, they get angry and start to ban me and the like. This has
    happened before. They will have to just stop lying about the prozbul,
    and if they cannot do that, I don't think they can be Redeemed one way
    or the other. It is a good test I guess. It is a test of intelligence
    and of honesty and morality. If you cannot solve something this simple,
    I assume you cannot solve anything, and cannot be part of the
    Redemption. While that may not ultimately be true, if they make it hard
    for me, then I give them only this little test. If they can get over
    this little hurdle, and do their due dilligence, they should be able to
    find the truth quite easily. If they cannot get over the hurdle, no harm
    done, no banning needed, none is the wiser so to say, no fuss, and no
    loss. They would not be capable of the Redemption, anyway.

    The open rebellion by Israel and her Rabbis against the Torah and their
    God continues. it is called "prozbul", and also (idolatry, which seems
    to be even worse in the Torah) "Lamp of Helena", the "Lamp of the
    Nations" so to say (the Sun, which is also an old Egyptian idol IIRC).
    It is quite astonishing to see how little interest Israel shows for her Redemption. I guess we should be happy that the concept at least exists
    at all, because the next step would be: everything is forgotten
    completely, and the people would have to get to the truth the hard way,
    by purely doing their mental work on the topic (like I did on economics
    I guess).

    Since they will unlikely *ever* do that, the consequence is the (near) extinction of humanity. The abuse of technology for evil is that bad.
    Near extinction or complete extinction of humanity is better. I saw a
    video listed about Tesla their new brain chip going into human trials. A disgusting picture with their brain implant in a wound in the shape of
    an eye. The feeling I get is: hell has started. This madness is going to escalate into horrors we cannot even imagine right now. How is this
    world going to look with the criminals currently in charge for another
    few centuries ? In the 1960s we could barely have a simple calculator,
    and now look what we have, and what will be in the centuries to come,
    and all that power into the hands of the most evil people ? What does
    this mean when we have another totalitarian Tyranny break out, which is
    already breaking out (the USA is now a Tyranny) ?

    The enemy works a lot with the turning over of the generations. They put propaganda in place, sometimes as simple as flags in public view in many
    places such as they did with the E.U., so that they work on the emotions
    and minds of the young, while for the older generations they keep the
    sharade going that we have a Nation by focussing their news media for
    example on the National Parliament while ignoring the traitors at the
    European Union. They know people would not accept being ruled from
    Brussels, so they hide it and just wait for the generation who rejects
    their Nation being ended to die out. The young don't know better, and
    then they will accept the E.U. as a given, don't even think about it.
    THey will be shown some flat earthers who are against the European
    Union, and that will control their simple minds.

    They will probably do similar things with these brain implants. For us,
    this is hell. For the next generation, they will create the necessary propaganda to normalize it at least, or however far they can get. By the
    time 3 generations have past, the children might embrase this evil as an inevitability, even a good thing. They seem to be crafty enough to get
    people wherever they want, so long as they get the time to do it. it is
    very helpful for the side of evil that people do not think, or even
    care. In that sense, humanity deserves what is coming. Unfortunately, it
    may not just be another Tyranny, it may be much worse this time. If
    these evil people continue to win in the long term, or could create a
    situation humanity would need a miracle to escape from it, the miracle
    of escape might be in the form of a complete extinction of humanity.

    Why ? Because they caused it themselves, and will cause it again. You
    can free them, but since they are this stupid, careless, dishonest and brainless, it doesn't matter to free them. They will fall for evil
    again. I guess you could argue, if the pain was bad enough, perhaps they
    will not fall for it again. That is a good point. Therefore this is what
    we will likely see happening, which is the usual cause and effect:
    mistakes, pain, mistakes, pain, worse mistakes, worse pain, etc. It is
    still possible that humanity gets things right, with the application of
    enough death & pain due to their own mistakes.

    You often see after periods of hardship, that there is more interest in morality for a while. This dies out fairly quickly. You also saw this
    with Israel in Egypt. At first they suffered, and then they became more
    moral and accepted the Torah. Later they destroyed that again, because
    they became decadent, careless and retarded (not as retarded as the
    other Nations, but prozbul is proof they had become retarded by that
    point; this is not a comparison to other Nations, this is a comparison
    to the absolute minimum of peace, justice and intelligence we need to
    survive and deal with our own toys (!)).

    It is not possible to reach Israel. The people cannot be reached, the
    Rabbis don't care, etc. They think they are doing good already, and are entitled to all kinds of goodness. It just isn't true; except probably
    in rare cases, probably people who suffer every day from the injustices
    and the lies and the bad behavior in their own communities. They think
    they are 'good people', because they don't cheat on their taxes ?
    Because they gave charity ? Let's say they are good people. Then 'good'
    is not good enough. The land of Israel is a mess, there is no economy
    getting things right, and we are on the brink of a global war. How many
    people don't lift a finger to do anything positive on these topics ? How
    many people might give it one hour a week ? They think "ah, it's fine"
    that Israel doesn't execute the Jubilee on land, and move on to the next
    topic. They think "ah, the Sanhedrin will figure it out later" or "it is
    not my problem", and that's it. "Oh, the Rabbis said the Sages made a
    loophole in the Torah - how interesting, I should remember it in case I
    get this question on an exam". "Oh some people where at the 'nature
    festival' dancing before Buddah and doing their best to insult the
    Torah, that's just some good fun for the afternoon, more power to them."

    The attitude is quite "we don't care" (which is a Fascist slogan). Then
    when the natural consequences of this chaos and carelessness come, they
    get angry with Hashem (heaven). This is not fair. I think the root
    problem is, that they underestimate the seriousness of much of what is
    in the Torah. If they knew how serious much of it is, or all of it if you
    want, they would know their Nations is in a deep state of decadence and
    decay, and that the consequences of this decay and chaos should be
    severe.

    If they knew how deeply serious the Jubilee on land is for example. It
    would transform the economic of the entire world, and may do much to
    stabilize Nations and thereby reduce the chances for war, increase the creativity and intelligence of people, reduce Plutocracy ... It would
    make complete Revolutions such as Communism obsolete, these Revolutions
    would either never have happened, or gone in a much better way. Had
    Israel just kept to this law, and other Nations had seen it and taken it
    over which is not unlikely (see how the Jesus fraud system takes over a
    lot from Israel, and how Islam does the same), we could be in a
    differernt kind of culture right now. Just the one element. You see how
    much of the world took over the Shabbos, and how this has changed
    people's lives. A day off work ?! Who had heard of it. It was work work
    work, never stop. Only the greedy rich exploiters knew what spare time
    was, no ? In this case, the Jewish people seem to have accomplished
    something. Is it enough to prevent high technological hell on Earth ? I
    don't know, but it does certainly seem that the enemy is moving forward
    on their plans, without much opposition for the moment at least.

    It is an attitude of 'it is already ok' and 'we have done enough', yet
    major parts of a system of a Nation are not operational (such as the
    Jubilee). Then to think that, because they have done enough, it is the
    fault of heaven if bad things happen. This is not fair and not correct.

    I also saw quite a few comments, saying that is is ok to be angry. No I
    am sorry to say, it is not allowed to be angry with heaven or with
    Hashem, it is neither allowed and neither is it correct. It speaks of a
    lack of knowledge. We should always blame ourselves. Even if Hashem
    where to have guilt, as he regretted making mankind, Hashem already
    knows all this, and I am sure he will compensate those who deserve it ?
    In any case, it is a law in the Torah, no less, to love the Creator.
    You are simply not allowed to be angry with the one who only wants the
    best, and who creates the entire world including ourselves, so that we
    can live and be happy. If we don't understand everything, that is our
    problem and mistake. Had we lived differently, perhaps we would already
    have understood. It is not allowed to be angry with heaven, sorry. That
    is the Torah. If you want to be angry, then be angry at the failure of
    humans, including ourselves. There is plenty to be angry about there,
    and we can point to it and do something about it perhaps.

    (Another endless ranting day for me I guess, sorry. Israel wants to do
    more tarrying with the Redemption. Ok fine, tarry then another day, have
    it your way. Be lazy, take your time, waste your time. Just make sure to
    blame yourself for it in the end, and not anyone else.)

    It is obvious Israel doesn't take the Torah serious, certainly not since
    and including Hillel the Elder, destroyer of Israel. If you see all the
    bad that has happened since, it is hard to say what will make Israel
    change her mind. It will have to get magnitudes worse than the Nazi
    holocaust and the Spanish inquisition, it seems, because that didn't
    work to the extend necessary to truly live forever in peace. They still
    kept their old lies going, such as the prozbul. I guess one of their
    pitfalls is that they think they are already doing so great, if they
    follow Rabbis, as opposed to caring about nothing anymore, or worse
    becoming idolators and switching to those people, be that buddha or
    Jesus or whatever (Islam is at least not idolatry). They are already
    impressed with their own Teshuvah, if they go from completely nothing
    and random behavior, to following the Rabbis, who follow a traitor like
    Hillel. They don't seem to realize that this is not good enough.

    *

    Remember Adam & Eve ? The way I see it (an hypotheses if you will): Eve
    started stealing. Once the stealing started, it was over. Stealing
    becomes murder, murder becomes war, war becomes Tyranny, Tyranny becomes
    hell. What is the prozbul ? It is stealing from Hashem. He said the loan
    is nullified. He stands next to the poor person, and in the 7th year he
    says, with the poor person: "We do not have money for you, go away and
    do not come back to ask for this money again." That is the Torah. The
    rich man however, armed with the power of the lying Rabbis of Israel,
    the Hillellites with their fraudulent documents or other irrelevant
    chaff they come up with, they grab the money anyway. They steal the
    money, because nothing was due. It is theft. Hashem told them: this
    money is a 'forbidden fruit' for you, I command you to leave it alone.
    In the 7th year, the money of the loan for the poor who is Jewish
    becomes a forbidden fruit. You can trade with other people, you can loan
    your money to other people, you can work your land, but you shall leave
    the money of this loan alone now. You cannot have it.

    They have to learn to respect that, to respect that which is not theirs.
    To honor another person, to allow them peace. If they can do that, the
    job is done, the humans can live. The humans figured out how to live in
    the world of farming, with settled life and eventually toys we could
    never even think can exist, can be made. Great power of technology. If
    we respect each other, what belongs to the other, to give the other
    peace and life and not try to steal, to dominate, to loot, to oppress,
    then we have reached our new state of being. Our species might
    potentially live forever, no animal can touch us anymore.

    It is the same lie, the same fraud the same theft (sort of). A similar
    thing. The stealing of the forbidden fruit, and the stealing of the loan
    after it has been declared forbidden to take.

    It is the same with land. The Jubilee on land is a measure against
    stealing land. Everyone will have land, and may return to it. If you
    have no land, you have no life, you have no place. Is it your planet,
    did you create the Earth ? Hashem said in your Torah: each shall have
    land, and you may not sell it in perpetuity. You shall respect the
    corner stones of the land, you shall not steal each others land. Not
    stealing by purchasing in perpetuity, and not stealing by moving the
    corner stones. You shall not eat from that forbidden fruit, which is
    someone else's land. You shall not eat of your own acord from that
    tree, which is not yours. But they did, they did not respect the Jubilee
    on land, but they stole the land.

    It is all a similar thing, see ? It is all the same thing. It is the one
    thing humanity has to learn: stop stealing. Stop stealing ! If you don't
    steal, you don't have to be a liar either, because there is no danger.
    You did nothing wrong, who should you fear ? Rally all the honest
    people, being honest yourself, and you can vanguish the criminals if
    necessary. If you don't steal, you don't have to murder.

    While it may be a good argument to say that charity does a lot of good,
    and this is certainly something I also belief, it seems clear that
    charity alone does not do enough good to undo all the other existing
    evils, because Israel does do a lot of charity, yet here we are, things
    are not going well.

    Had Adam & Eve respected that one tree, I speculate that it would be a
    lesson learned in principle. Once they had respected that tree, even if
    it had been just like any other tree and was chosen at random from all
    the other trees, then the lesson was learned and could be applied
    elsewhere. Once they respected the one tree, they would have learned how
    to respect any other tree, such as the tree which is being owned or used
    by someone else, or needed by someone else. Imagine the peace this would
    mean, if humans thought that way, rather than the more usual "get what
    you can get, the more the better".

    It is similar to the rule to not be angry with God, and not to use bad
    words to God, because once you can respect one thing, you can respect
    another, including your fellow man - and this may be the most important
    thing in it all.

    You could argue that charity is the same on principle, and perhaps it is
    true. Nevertheless, to give someone charity is not the same as to make
    sure their right to land is honored. Land is of immense value. Charity
    does not measure up to it, it simply isn't of the right quality and even
    the amount will likely be far less. Land is freedom and life,
    opportunity, and a challenge. Charity likely is undoing much damage done
    by the rich and their greedy prozbul loans, however you could argue: the charity should be there anyway, and on top of that, the loans being
    cancelled was also needed, to stabilize the Nation and heal the social
    fabric. It is in the Torah, it is the law.

    Another thing of theft, is that they reached out their hand and they
    grabbed the Torah, and they tore away laws from it. They stole away a
    law, they stole it: the 7th year debt cancellation. That was stolen, by
    Hillel, by the Rabbis. They stole and usurped for themselves the right
    to make such laws, laws which go directly against the Torah - even on a
    simple topic like this. They stole the power to make law, even though
    Hashem had said: this power to make law is a forbidden fruit for you,
    Israel. This is your Torah, you must respect it, and leave it alone.
    You must follow these laws, and you may not take away laws or add to
    them, you may not change the law. They stole that power, they did not
    respect that power.

    If you are in a Nation, a Nation at peace and a Nation of peace, and it
    has been decided by your people that a certain law shall be law, then
    what does it mean if you do not respect that decision - assuming that
    the law which was made was not unreasonable and certainly not evil.
    Doesn't that imply an amount of chaos ? Everyone is riding their vehicle
    at a certain speed, or at a certain side of the road, but you just
    think: I do whatever I want, and I'll have a booze on the go if I feel
    like it ? Isn't that a loss of solidarity with your people ? A well made
    law is good for everyone, including you. You also survive the roads, if
    others keep to that law. You could argue that in some sort of way, a bit convoluted maybe, but there is another element of 'taking' of theft.
    An element of not respecting something which is not yours, another
    example of a failure of discipline, of serving a short term selfish need without regard to the greater consequences.

    Underestimating the consequences, underestimating the seriousness of the
    Torah. God said: "Do not eat from this fruit." It seemed like a little
    thing. What could the consequences be ? Today we see the result: insane
    and evil wars, nukes ready to blast our planet to hell, and all for the
    sake of greed, all for the sake of theft, for power, for nothing. The
    Torah seemed small, the demand seemed trivial. The consequences of
    ignoring it, the wise lesson from Hashem to humanity, it could be our extinction, or even worse.

    Place the fruit back at the tree, if it is not yours.
    Give the money back to the poor, if you stole it with your prozbul.
    Return the power to make law to Hashem and his Prophets.
    Say nice things about your God, who gave us wise lessons and only wants
    the best for everyone, and take back all anger and accusations.
    Learn the lesson to not be a thieve. We already have more than we need.

    Now we know the cost, we know the pain. There is no reason to continue
    with the lies. Beyond the pain, is more pain, is more pain. Learn the
    lesson and return: truth, justice & peace, honesty and innocense.

    Remember that the Torah also says: it is not in heaven, you do not have
    to go over the sea. You do not need a Rabbi to tell you, and a Rabbi is
    also nothing else than just another person who can read, just like you.
    Some of them have studied well, but many of them teach the lie of the
    prozbul, and that is a massive problem. The Torah gives you every right
    to ignore them, because you can read the Torah yourself, and that is the
    Torah. You have the right, obligation, to do so, and to rebel the
    injustices from an establishment, just as Moshe Rabbeinu also rebelled
    the establishment of Egypt. This is not rebellion, but loyalty. They are
    the rebels, they need to change their ways and stop supporting theft.

    (You guessed right, I don't have much to do this evening ;-)
    --
    Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
    with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jos Boersema@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 13 20:25:34 2024
    link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9paLX5_dlHc
    title: Let’s Just Pray For The Messiah!
    source: Yossi Paltiel

    Comment: ...

    In case someone hasn't noticed it: the world is drowning in debt. The
    _national debt_ is a pay debt with debt scheme. It is insane. Germany
    had the Weimar debt, also unpayable, also never cancelled. Instead of cancelling these debts, they cancel _everything else_ because the rich
    cannot budge from their objective (greed & power at all cost). It led
    to the Nazis, and now it will again lead to a World War, this time it
    will be a nuclear war (and probably have depopulation objectives as well).

    This matters everything to Judaism, it has everything to do with the
    exile it seems. Hillel the Elder instituted the _prosbul,_ which broke
    the law of debt cancellation in the 7th year (for poor brothers, fellow
    Jews). Many centuries later, Rambam/Maimonides made it worse by creating
    a scheme by which Jews can extract _interest_ from their fellow Jews,
    called a _heter iska._ Here you see how Rabbinical Judaism has broked
    down the Torah, shamelessly and without Teshuvah to this day. The Judilee
    on land was also lost, which is probably an even greater crime, but
    hard to correct if you have been removed from your lands (which today,
    Israel partially is not (!)).

    What it all seems to mean, is that Rabbinical Judaism and everyone
    who clings to it, belongs in a world where debts are not cancelled,
    and where good people try to gain parasitic profit from each other,
    no matter the cost and by law. This world is the exile, it is not the Redemption. Rabbinical Judaism creates this condition, perpetuates it,
    and can therefore _never_ be part of the Redemption, until they correct
    these issues. It would basically mean to throw the Talmud away, and
    many other works, even perhaps _everything_ the Rabbis have done over
    the last two thousand years. The only thing left will be the Tanach,
    and for the rest it will probably be a long and difficult search for
    those people who opposed these treasonous activities, to see if their
    works are worthy to be remembered.

    You then get the whole logic of how the Jewish people where punished by
    the western idolatry religion, as a sort of form of what Hillel the Elder
    was doing, and that the Jewish people started to do idolatry at the 2nd
    Temple with the so-called Lamp of Helena (worship of the Sun). It is very
    sad to see how modern Jewish people do not care about these problems. I
    guess it means they cannot be Redeemed.

    We are however "at the end", the world is insane, but its technological
    power is intense and rapidly growing. If humanity creates another Tyranny
    and global war, which they certainly are doing step by step ever so
    slowly, it may come to a condition where humanity is better destroyed
    and put back in the Stone Age. Rabbinical Judaism cannot be part of the Redemption. Isaiah already wrote about it, that the teachers of Israel
    will be removed by Hashem, because they have taught his people badly. The Rabbis wasted so much time already. They will become in part guilty over
    the second holocaust, and that may be the end of their reign. Hashem will
    teach his children himself, so Isaiah seems to say, the Rabbis may never
    teach Israel again, or any other teachers calling themselves whatever
    they will. The lies just never stop, do they. There seems to be no shame
    in the illogical arguments, which seems that it could mean that there is
    no logical mind left. Who can accept something as absurd as the _prosbul_
    I dare say, you have no logic capacity in your mind whatsoever.

    Israel chose death, chose against their God and his Torah. When the second holocaust happens, 7 times worse than the last one, perhaps it will be
    bad enough for a remnant to return, and break away from the control and propaganda of the Rabbis. I get it though, there is a lot of good in
    the Torah, and therefore with the Rabbis also. This makes it hard to
    see the poison which is also there. You see, the Rabbis made laws and
    laws upon laws, but it doesn't matter so long as the rich and greedy
    get their satisfaction. It is quite precisely there where the rich and
    greedy want the law to break down, that even the so-called Ultra Orthodox
    (if only they where, these reformers) break it down for them. Plutocracy,
    it seems to be the disease of all Nations, including Israel.

    You made money your God, and the moneyed your King, and now you feign
    to not notice it, to not be able to think. It is not credible, in my
    view. Nobody can be really be this stupid. It is fraud, there is on other
    word for it. Israel betrayed the Torah. Israel is where they belong. If
    you want the Geulah and the Redemption, then *live it.* Have a great
    day. If you fail to _listen and do_ the consequences are for you. All
    I do is compute the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu for you. I didn't get into
    the nitty gritty of the prosbul or heter iska, because doing that never
    seemed to help, and it is obvious enough to all but a fool. 'Moshiach' is unimportant, what is important is _how to live_ and _what is good law._
    I'm sorry if this comment sounds upset. Many years I try to get Israel
    to stop lying already, never any honest person with a brain I met,
    who wanted to be good and who cared for the truth. Gentiles neither,
    mind you, that is even more hopeless.

    [Continuing on Usenet ...]

    P.S. I think the Jewish people are so invested in their idolatry, that
    all they can think about is worshiping authority, and everyone who goes
    against their chosen "Sages" is *automatically* perceived as being
    wrong (to put it mildly). The mind is just completely blocked. No
    ability or will to think about things logically.

    To think logically, what I personally do the most is to try to envision
    how people behave under various conditions, and under various laws.

    Example: Someone gives a loan to a poor person, and then scenario 1: the
    loan is demanded back, or scenario 2: the loan is forgiven in the 7th
    year. What will the likely results be, etc.

    WHen it comes to the prosbul, I think you have to be a fool to maintain
    that a loan is a court verdict, when the court is designed to cancel the
    loans and enforce that law against people who fail to complay with it.
    How obvious does it get ? The whole situation is just absurd, shameless
    and absurd.

    The Rabbis had a lot of time to do Teshuvah. Not just in these last 10+
    years or so, but for centuries already, even right from the fall of the
    second Temple and before. They never did. I think therefore that they
    probably never will, and the only chance Israel has to live, is to break
    with their power. Once they realize how serious it is that they broke
    the Torah down and spread false law among their people, and that they
    are losing most if not all of their control because of it (yeah I know,
    that will not happen quickly), they might be forced to correct
    themselves, or a different group of Judges can be installed, who are
    loyal and do not behave absurdly, catering for the rich. The jubilee on
    land should, of course, be instituted wherever possible (probably more important, as I always try to add, because just think: having a loan
    sometimes when you need it is nice, but having your share of the land is
    being free forever, and the rich-and-greedy loose a lot of their control
    over you).

    I guess it was already a given that Rabbinical Judaism will fail in the
    end, just as the other religions will fail, because what is even left of
    it if you take out everything which did not oppose the prosbul ?

    Israel has chosen death. They chose the death of the poor whose loan was
    not cancelled and whose money was destroyed by rent seeking, rather than
    to build them up and also give them their land (if they could, which
    they can now but do not). Israel was always supposed to choose life;
    peace, justice, happiness for all. They sided with the gentiles and the
    great ignorance of this world, and it seems many of them will have to
    die with this world, as this world will likely collapse and die soon, if
    it isn't already collapsing bit by bit, ever so slowly, and descending
    into widening wars.

    Maybe it is a good thing they will blambe the 'moshiach' for tarrying
    and not coming (because "they did everything right, eh" ... pfff). Then
    is so blaming, they might leave the holy Nation, and leave the good and
    the wise alone to rebuild their lives in peace.

    You have been warned (again for the Nth time), and shown a way out (or
    at least, a way to improve your condition to a degree). If you do not
    listen, then what can I help it that you will suffer the consequences of
    your own choices ? Those consequences are there to teach you.

    --
    Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
    with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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