It seems to be perfectly simple. If whatever people are to be forever
happy, one thing needs to stop: they need to stop making each other
unhappy. So long as they severely hurt each other, are stealing from
each other, are not helping each other enough, are denying each other
life and opportunity, you can put these people in Paradise all you want,
you can protect these people with open miracles all you want, you can
give these people any amount of wealth and ease you want, they will
still not be able to be happy, because they are hurting each other.

Therefore it is not possible to Redeem Israel, in my view at least. The
prosbul is an element of mutual hatred, decay and rage which the Jewish
people are conducting against each other. They are trying to hurt each
other, profit from each others' misery (I am putting this in a bit over
the top terms, but you go try being desperately poor, and just when you
think someone is helping you with a loan, you find out he wants it all
back anyway - and you end up even more desperate). Then we have the
failure to distribute the land to all, which means they deny each other
life, opportunity, freedom, and even things like being an adult, a real
man rather than some serf slaving for the bank.

While these things are important themselves, they are also likely
indicators of a deeper problem, which is an element of greed, of
infighting within the Jewish people, and a lack of intelligence to deal
with the problem fairly (or if you cannot figure it out, there you have
the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu and you can do that; but they do not).

While it may be possible to keep Israel around in a state where they
don't suffer too much, they will still be hurting each other, and
therefore you can put them in Paradise, but they will turn it back into
the world as it is now.

Where are the exact limits of all this, and how far is Israel from these limits: I don't know. Perhaps not distributing the land and giving
yourselve over to some greed loan practices but not others, while doing
loads of charity, is very close to being good enough to live forever
that way. Perhaps it is vastly too little to even think of it. Maybe the problem could even be overcome by enough charity; or maybe not. These
are details and fine tuned judgements which I suspect a whole floor of a University full of honest and bright researchers might struggle to
answer, both in terms of what would be needed to be happy as a people
without the infighting and damaging each other, and in terms of where
Israel exactly is on these vectors. I guess this is how a simple thing,
becomes a virtually impossible to solve puzzle.

In any case, what could be said is:
- Greed laws about loans on the book are a negative for Redemption,
because it is mutual agression and anti-social.

- The same for failure to distribute the land to all.

- Both of these are elements of thievery (compare Adam & Eve *stealing*
the 'soft fruit', a crime of greed and a lack of charity, generosity,
respect for what isn't theirs but someone else's, lack of discipline,
etc).

- All of it breaks the Torah of Moshe Rabbeinu, to such an extend
everyone knows it, which in turn also makes them liars. Lying, by the
way, is also part of a war. Lying is critical and an integral part of
warfare. Lying to your people is already a form of being at war with
your people. (I simply cannot undersand your crazy excuses for your
prosbul, how dare you even think of those insane arguments; by which
you have also made the Court of Justice into a criminal gang.)

- Israel is clearly not Redeemed at the moment. They do not want to
Redeem themselves, and are also not Redeemed by heaven - if that was
possible, but this argument here is that this is impossible. The only
way it could still be possible, is to take away their free will, and
force them to be good. This would change the nature of the world in
rather drastic ways. Why don't they just learn ? Indeed. The pain of
failure can still do it's job, so in that sense: everything is fine.
The Creation is working perfectly. There is pain to alert to a
problem, and if the creature doesn't learn the pain increases, until
eventually the creature might die and stop existing.

- The fact that the state of the wold is what it is seems to be an
indication that things like the prosbul and not distributing the land
to all, might be sufficiently bad to prevent Israel from being
Redeemed, and that any charity or good being done is not enough to
make up for it, or can even never be enough to make up for it
(especially land distribution changes a society quite seriously I
would think). There may also be other factors causing this, however.

So there you go, once again belabored the point over and over again. You
do not want to be Redeemed, and you cannot be Redeemed. You cannot make
a success out of peace, because you choose too much agression between yourselves as your way of life. You create the problem yourselves.
Sometimes the problem of violence comes from the outside, sometimes from
the inside, but it is the same principle. You accept this principle
already, this principle of (stating it a bit too harshly maybe, but:)
warfare between yourselves.

If Israel stops their infighting, greed against each other and so on,
thieving from people, taking what is not theirs, than they can be
Redeemed and live forever. Then you could protect that Nation with any
amount of miracles necessary from outside threats, or give them great
power to do so themselves (which incidentally is a side effect of having
a dynamic and free economy and a high degree of social integration and solidarity - such Nations rise to the top in the world, not even so much because they are objectively great but because the rest is so much
worse). This doesn't mean the other Nations are better, that this is
like a statement of "the Jews are bad" - absolutely not. Rather the
opposite: Israel is still worthwhile to talk to, because they are the
best people in the world. The rest I personally don't bother anymore. If
Israel is hopeless at the moment, the other Nations are hopless 10 times
over. Objectively speaking, all of humanity is a failure, some just fail
less than others. In total, it is a failure. No nation seems to
understand it and do enough.

Then there is the thing about technology, which has generally been on
the increase in sophistication once humans started to farm the land
(live in gardens that is). It is a different way of living than roaming
the land. How do you carry a furnace for smelting metals on your back ?
You don't. You don't have that capability, you don't develop it. How do
you develop nuclear weapons when you are on foot going from place to
place following the trek of local animals, and known places of plant
food. You don't.

The argument then sortof becomes: while back in the past all the harm
was relatively harmless, more like animals eating and fighting, nowadays
this violence is taking on a different dimension. It already has done so
for a long time. The Empires of the past where brutal. That was already
more than enough reason for the violence to stop. Now however it goes
towards weapons which can devestate huge areas of land, and also super
tiny weapons with the ability to crawl into individual human cells andh
do all kinds of weird damage there (bio weapons such as modified
virusses, nano-particles, etc).

In the old days you could be tracked by a dog, but how many dogs does the
enemy have. Nowadays you can also be tracked by satalites and cameras everywhere. The point is: things are getting out of hand with the
violence of humanity in general. WHat will happen the way it is going
in 2 centuries ? What about 3000 years of this ? The technology would
be incomprehensibly advanced compared to what we have now, and all that
is also being weaponized for controlling humans against their will ?

Perhaps all that is supposed to happen, but I would rather try to avoid
it. Hence I would like to ask: stop with the infighting, have the Nation
the people be at peace with each other, or find enough people who want
to be good and peaceful with each other, and somehow try to convince
humanity that they are on the road to a hell of their own making, which
isn't worth the fight (so to speak). All the survival and happiness is
now within co-operation, peace, sharing knowledge & friendship, freedom,
the truth, and no more war.

I rather choose this and take my chances with peace, than wake up one
day in a factory where humans are being bred by machines with an
impossible to remove series of dangerous implants, to live some kind of Dystopian nightmare for the amuzement of the worst kind of people. Short
of that: is war really any fun ? No, it is not. War is hell.

Therefore I think it makes sense that Israel has to be Redeemed as soon
as possible. However, it is not possible, thanks to Israel herself. If
they don't change, or if enough of them don't change, things might start looking grim, both in the short, long and infinite terms. (This is just
basic common sense; sadly I have read that common sense is not common;
indeed it seems to be so. ;-)

The real problem is inside, inside the human soul. If this is not dealt
with, I don't know what the future is, but it could be exceedingly bad.
A return to the middle Stone Age might be best at some point. All this
would just seem like a mad dream, stories nobody believes anymore, on
the then sparcely populated Earth. They abused their power, and here
stripped of it. No more cozy cave for you, with central heating and a
soft bed, and all the possible wishes a Stone Age hunter gatherer could
have. Everything is fullfilled right now, all dreams came true, all
wishes are granted - but they still want what isn't theirs on top of it.
It is like it is never enough, like with Adam & Eve, who also wanted
that last tree. Then they lost it all.

--
Economic & political ideology, worked out into Constitutional models,
with a multi-facetted implementation plan. http://market.socialism.nl

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