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  • Mars robotic missions

    From Alain Fournier@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 6 10:13:55 2022
    Robotic missions to Mars have been getting more and more complex and
    rovers ever heavier. SpaceX should soon have a rocket capable of landing
    100 tonnes on Mars. So they could theoretically put two T-90MS Tagil
    Russian military tanks. That is quite a lot more than the current
    rovers, but sending tanks is not a good idea.

    An obvious use of this new capability is to send humans to Mars, and
    that is what SpaceX has in mind. But lets assume that we are planning a
    robotic mission to Mars and we have a 100 tonnes mass budget. What do
    you think would be a good use of this capability?


    Alain Fournier

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  • From Snidely@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 7 18:36:26 2022
    Alain Fournier noted that:
    Robotic missions to Mars have been getting more and more complex and rovers ever heavier. SpaceX should soon have a rocket capable of landing 100 tonnes on Mars. So they could theoretically put two T-90MS Tagil Russian military tanks. That is quite a lot more than the current rovers, but sending tanks is not a good idea.

    An obvious use of this new capability is to send humans to Mars, and that is what SpaceX has in mind. But lets assume that we are planning a robotic mission to Mars and we have a 100 tonnes mass budget. What do you think would be a good use of this capability?

    Shooting from the hip, I'd want a few big rovers like Percy, and a
    swarm of smaller units like Ingenuity (airborne observation) and the
    size of Sojourner or Opportunity/Spirit but with a specialist bent ...
    one main instrument, and enough navigation support to toddle around the
    edges of Percy's daily range.

    /dps


    --
    Trust, but verify.

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  • From Niklas Holsti@21:1/5 to Alain Fournier on Tue Feb 8 09:58:16 2022
    On 2022-02-06 17:13, Alain Fournier wrote:
    Robotic missions to Mars have been getting more and more complex and
    rovers ever heavier. SpaceX should soon have a rocket capable of landing
    100 tonnes on Mars. So they could theoretically put two T-90MS Tagil
    Russian military tanks. That is quite a lot more than the current
    rovers, but sending tanks is not a good idea.

    An obvious use of this new capability is to send humans to Mars, and
    that is what SpaceX has in mind. But lets assume that we are planning a robotic mission to Mars and we have a 100 tonnes mass budget. What do
    you think would be a good use of this capability?


    1. A rover or flyer (helicopter) with a good ground-penetrating radar
    and other prospecting instruments.

    2. A powerful, heavy drill for deep sampling (tens of meters). Mobile,
    of course.

    3. An excavator for moderately deep trenches (a few meters). Mobile too.

    4. A bigger and more versatile remotely controlled laboratory for
    on-Mars sample studies. Mobile or trailer-mounted and pulled by the
    drill or excavator.

    5. One or several sample-return craft, direct from Mars to Earth without
    any rendez-vous with a Mars orbiter. Either mounted on trailers or independently mobile. Possibly with reusable first stages, if there is
    also an ISRU propellant plant.

    Open question: power sources for the above. Solar or kilopower fission?

    Could the Starship solar panels be deployed on the surface after
    landing? I haven't seen any new info about the Starship solar panels for
    a goodish time, except for the HLS version.

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  • From Alain Fournier@21:1/5 to Niklas Holsti on Wed Feb 9 14:47:00 2022
    On Feb/8/2022 at 02:58, Niklas Holsti wrote :
    On 2022-02-06 17:13, Alain Fournier wrote:
    Robotic missions to Mars have been getting more and more complex and
    rovers ever heavier. SpaceX should soon have a rocket capable of
    landing 100 tonnes on Mars. So they could theoretically put two T-90MS
    Tagil Russian military tanks. That is quite a lot more than the
    current rovers, but sending tanks is not a good idea.

    An obvious use of this new capability is to send humans to Mars, and
    that is what SpaceX has in mind. But lets assume that we are planning
    a robotic mission to Mars and we have a 100 tonnes mass budget. What
    do you think would be a good use of this capability?


    1. A rover or flyer (helicopter) with a good ground-penetrating radar
    and other prospecting instruments.

    2. A powerful, heavy drill for deep sampling (tens of meters). Mobile,
    of course.

    3. An excavator for moderately deep trenches (a few meters). Mobile too.

    4. A bigger and more versatile remotely controlled laboratory for
    on-Mars sample studies. Mobile or trailer-mounted and pulled by the
    drill or excavator.

    5. One or several sample-return craft, direct from Mars to Earth without
    any rendez-vous with a Mars orbiter. Either mounted on trailers or independently mobile. Possibly with reusable first stages, if there is
    also an ISRU propellant plant.

    Open question: power sources for the above. Solar or kilopower fission?

    Could the Starship solar panels be deployed on the surface after
    landing? I haven't seen any new info about the Starship solar panels for
    a goodish time, except for the HLS version.

    I like your point 1.

    Instead of point 2., and I don't know how realistic this would be on a
    100 tonnes mass budget but, I would not make the drill mobile (to save
    weight) and go for 1.5 km deep instead of "only" tens of meters. I'm
    thinking of the subsurface lakes or clay deposits. Of course, a future
    mission would bring back some samples. Again I'm not sure this is
    realistic with 100 tonnes, but it would worth it to evaluate the
    possibility.


    Alain Fournier

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