• Re: Exobiology or Astrobiology?

    From Henderson@21:1/5 to JTEM on Sat Jun 28 01:03:00 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    JTEM wrote:


    Six of one, half dozen of the other.

    Unless we're talking "Baker's Dozen" here. Then it would be
    6.5 of one, half dozen of the other.

    You know, cus a baker's dozen is 13. Right?

    Right?

    But the really tough part about the search for alien life
    is that it's probably easier found on distant worlds then
    right here in our solar system. And I'm talking Far
    distant... tens or a hundred light years away, or beyond!

    If there's life on any of the "Heavenly Bodies" in our
    solar system, outside of earth, then it's most probably
    microbial, and not exactly "Abundant" by earth standards.
    Because, if it weren't, if it were abundant and oh so
    complex it would undoubtedly leave a few more markers in
    the atmospheres of their worlds.

    Life. Changes. The world.

    I mean, "People are terrible! We're changing the planet!"
    is an idea drilled into your skull at every conceivable
    moment but, it's a lie. Which is to say, it's a lie that
    humans shouldn't be changing our world or that every other
    form of life isn't doing the same.

    The first mass extinction event known to science happened
    on about 2 billion years ago and it was called "The Great
    Oxidation Event." This was when the oxygen expelled by life
    as a waste product had so saturated the atmosphere that it
    began poisoning the very life expelling it.

    Oxygen was a waste product, yes, and you go try surviving
    on a diet of your own poop if you're having difficulty
    grasping how oxygen killed things...

    Do you see? If a planet is filled with life, if it's
    abundant and complex -- this is not the One Note Wonder
    of life -- then we're going to pick up clear biosignatures
    in their atmosphere. A life bearing world, on the scale of
    an earth of close enough, is effectively broadcasting the
    existence of that life to anyone who cares to listen... or
    look, as in this case.

    "Biosignatures" are the markers of life. Oxygen likes to
    combine with things, it doesn't stick around in the
    atmosphere, so if we detect a lot of it that suggests life.
    Same with methane. Same with a lot of things. And although
    most do have potential origins totally removed from anything
    living, we can start to talk about combinations and
    frequency. And of course there are things that we presently
    only ever associate with life, we know of no non-living
    means for their presence. And we refer to all of these
    things collectively as "Biosignatures." and we can detect
    them at very great distances.

    ....different elements absorb light differently so we
    study a target planet, see what it's absorbing & work out
    what it would need in it's atmosphere to do that.

    Biosignatures. And if a planet is teeming with life it
    would be easier to that proof of life than it would be to
    find a smattering of bacteria clinging to the underside of
    some rocks on Mars or Ganymede.



    NOTE TO UFO ENTHUSIASTS:

    If aliens are here as you believe then they clearly are
    making some efforts -- SUFFICIENT efforts -- to maintain
    "plausible deniability." Put short: They're hiding from us,
    and they are for the most part succeeding. But...

    But could they hide an entire planet?

    Could they hide their planet's atmosphere?

    So even if you're right about aliens buzzing the earth, it
    would still be easier to spot their distant worlds than it
    would be to find them here on our own planet.


    Interesting, thank you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jojo@21:1/5 to JTEM on Sat Jun 28 03:00:55 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    JTEM wrote:

    Six of one, half dozen of the other.

    Unless we're talking "Baker's Dozen" here. Then it would be
    6.5 of one, half dozen of the other.

    You know, cus a baker's dozen is 13. Right?

    Right?

    But the really tough part about the search for alien life
    is that it's probably easier found on distant worlds then
    right here in our solar system. And I'm talking *Far*
    distant... tens or a hundred light years away, or beyond!

    If there's life on any of the "Heavenly Bodies" in our
    solar system, outside of earth, then it's most probably
    microbial, and not exactly "Abundant" by earth standards.
    Because, if it weren't, if it were abundant and oh so
    complex it would undoubtedly leave a few more markers in
    the atmospheres of their worlds.

    Life. Changes. The world.

    I mean, "People are terrible! We're changing the planet!"
    is an idea drilled into your skull at every conceivable
    moment but, it's a lie. Which is to say, it's a lie that
    humans shouldn't be changing our world or that every other
    form of life isn't doing the same.

    The first mass extinction event known to science happened
    on about 2 billion years ago and it was called "The Great
    Oxidation Event." This was when the oxygen expelled by life
    as a waste product had so saturated the atmosphere that it
    began poisoning the very life expelling it.

    Oxygen was a waste product, yes, and you go try surviving
    on a diet of your own poop if you're having difficulty
    grasping how oxygen killed things...

    Do you see? If a planet is filled with life, if it's
    abundant and complex -- this is not the One Note Wonder
    of life -- then we're going to pick up clear biosignatures
    in their atmosphere. A life bearing world, on the scale of
    an earth of close enough, is effectively broadcasting the
    existence of that life to anyone who cares to listen... or
    look, as in this case.

    "Biosignatures" are the markers of life. Oxygen likes to
    combine with things, it doesn't stick around in the
    atmosphere, so if we detect a lot of it that suggests life.
    Same with methane. Same with a lot of things. And although
    most do have potential origins totally removed from anything
    living, we can start to talk about combinations and
    frequency. And of course there are things that we presently
    only ever associate with life, we know of no non-living
    means for their presence. And we refer to all of these
    things collectively as "Biosignatures." and we can detect
    them at very great distances.

        ....different elements absorb light differently so we
    study a target planet, see what it's absorbing & work out
    what it would need in it's atmosphere to do that.

    Biosignatures. And if a planet is teeming with life it
    would be easier to that proof of life than it would be to
    find a smattering of bacteria clinging to the underside of
    some rocks on Mars or Ganymede.



    NOTE TO UFO ENTHUSIASTS:

    If aliens are here as you believe then they clearly are
    making some efforts -- SUFFICIENT efforts -- to maintain
    "plausible deniability." Put short:  They're hiding from us,
    and they are for the most part succeeding. But...

    But could they hide an entire planet?

    Could they hide their planet's atmosphere?

    So even if you're right about aliens buzzing the earth, it
    would still be easier to spot their distant worlds than it
    would be to find them here on our own planet.


    we need more good and better space telescopes like kepler.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jojo@21:1/5 to JTEM on Sat Jun 28 03:18:25 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    JTEM wrote:
    On 6/27/25 11:00 PM, jojo wrote:

    we need more good and better space telescopes like kepler.

    I'd go further. I'd say we need to prioritize space and
    science in general.


    yes, at least 5% of gdp should goto space and fundamental research.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Henderson@21:1/5 to JTEM on Sat Jun 28 20:42:01 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    JTEM wrote:

    On 6/27/25 11:18 PM, jojo wrote:

    yes, at least 5% of gdp should goto space and fundamental research.

    What we desperately need is peace, so we can redirect military
    spending into science.

    AND, it's probably a good idea to redirect rather than just cut
    that spending, because it's too much of our economy to just
    erase overnight.

    The B2 requires over 100 hours of maintenance for every one hour
    of flight, with an estimated cost into the tens of millions.

    The pilot training is "Iffy." Google places the cost to train a
    pilot at anywhere from $1 million to $5 million...

    We haven't even talked about buying the plane!

    They officially bought 20 of them, crashed one...

    What if we could take spy satellite technology and put it in
    orbit around Mars? The moon? Anywhere of interest in the solar
    system? We can't now because that would be showing China and
    everyone else what we can see.


    Thanks so much, JTEM. Your insights are quite welcome here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Attila@21:1/5 to tsY7Q.194262$YI%[email protected] on Tue Jul 1 16:22:24 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 20:42:01 GMT, "Henderson"
    <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id <tsY7Q.194262$YI%[email protected]> wrote:

    JTEM wrote:

    On 6/27/25 11:18 PM, jojo wrote:

    yes, at least 5% of gdp should goto space and fundamental research.

    What we desperately need is peace, so we can redirect military
    spending into science.

    AND, it's probably a good idea to redirect rather than just cut
    that spending, because it's too much of our economy to just
    erase overnight.

    The B2 requires over 100 hours of maintenance for every one hour
    of flight, with an estimated cost into the tens of millions.

    The pilot training is "Iffy." Google places the cost to train a
    pilot at anywhere from $1 million to $5 million...

    We haven't even talked about buying the plane!

    They officially bought 20 of them, crashed one...

    What if we could take spy satellite technology and put it in
    orbit around Mars? The moon? Anywhere of interest in the solar
    system? We can't now because that would be showing China and
    everyone else what we can see.


    Thanks so much, JTEM. Your insights are quite welcome here.

    You must be new.

    --


    Every person in the US is here either
    legally or illegally. If they are here
    illegally they should be identified and
    deported as soon as possible without
    exception.

    Deport them all.

    All politicians are trained to lie
    and make those lies sound like
    the truth. They start with the biggest
    lie of all: Politicians are public
    servants.

    The Dims have an appropriate party
    symbol: A jackass.

    Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
    and abhorrent.
    Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

    I support:

    A Constitional Amendment establishing
    the Freedom of Choice.

    The elimination of public expression,
    display or support of religion or
    religious positions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Attila@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jul 1 16:21:48 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 02:22:48 -0400, JTEM <[email protected]>
    in alt.atheism with message-id
    <103o1no$n5b3$[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/27/25 11:18 PM, jojo wrote:

    yes, at least 5% of gdp should goto space and fundamental research.

    What we desperately need is peace, so we can redirect military
    spending into science.

    That would last just long enough for us to be invaded.


    AND, it's probably a good idea to redirect rather than just cut
    that spending, because it's too much of our economy to just
    erase overnight.

    Defense spending should be increased.


    The B2 requires over 100 hours of maintenance for every one hour
    of flight, with an estimated cost into the tens of millions.

    But there is nothing to replace it, and when you need it
    your really, really need it.


    The pilot training is "Iffy." Google places the cost to train a
    pilot at anywhere from $1 million to $5 million...

    We haven't even talked about buying the plane!

    They officially bought 20 of them, crashed one...

    Nothing is perfect. I doubt the pilot deliberately crashed.


    What if we could take spy satellite technology and put it in
    orbit around Mars? The moon? Anywhere of interest in the solar
    system? We can't now because that would be showing China and
    everyone else what we can see.

    It is safer to keep an eye on China and a few others.

    --


    Every person in the US is here either
    legally or illegally. If they are here
    illegally they should be identified and
    deported as soon as possible without
    exception.

    Deport them all.

    All politicians are trained to lie
    and make those lies sound like
    the truth. They start with the biggest
    lie of all: Politicians are public
    servants.

    The Dims have an appropriate party
    symbol: A jackass.

    Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
    and abhorrent.
    Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

    I support:

    A Constitional Amendment establishing
    the Freedom of Choice.

    The elimination of public expression,
    display or support of religion or
    religious positions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Attila@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jul 2 03:21:40 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 22:31:07 -0400, JTEM <[email protected]>
    in alt.atheism with message-id
    <10425lb$39g9u$[email protected]> wrote:

    Attila wrote:

    On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 02:22:48 -0400, JTEM <[email protected]>

    What we desperately need is peace, so we can redirect military
    spending into science.

    That would last just long enough for us to be invaded.

    No. I said "Peace" not a "Ceasefire."

    "so we can redirect military spending into science."

    --


    Every person in the US is here either
    legally or illegally. If they are here
    illegally they should be identified and
    deported as soon as possible without
    exception.

    Deport them all.

    All politicians are trained to lie
    and make those lies sound like
    the truth. They start with the biggest
    lie of all: Politicians are public
    servants.

    The Dims have an appropriate party
    symbol: A jackass.

    Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
    and abhorrent.
    Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

    I support:

    A Constitional Amendment establishing
    the Freedom of Choice.

    The elimination of public expression,
    display or support of religion or
    religious positions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Henderson@21:1/5 to Attila on Wed Jul 2 12:33:55 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    Attila wrote:

    On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 20:42:01 GMT, "Henderson"
    <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id <tsY7Q.194262$YI%[email protected]> wrote:

    JTEM wrote:

    On 6/27/25 11:18 PM, jojo wrote:

    yes, at least 5% of gdp should goto space and fundamental
    research. >>
    What we desperately need is peace, so we can redirect military
    spending into science.

    AND, it's probably a good idea to redirect rather than just cut
    that spending, because it's too much of our economy to just
    erase overnight.

    The B2 requires over 100 hours of maintenance for every one hour
    of flight, with an estimated cost into the tens of millions.

    The pilot training is "Iffy." Google places the cost to train a
    pilot at anywhere from $1 million to $5 million...

    We haven't even talked about buying the plane!

    They officially bought 20 of them, crashed one...

    What if we could take spy satellite technology and put it in
    orbit around Mars? The moon? Anywhere of interest in the solar
    system? We can't now because that would be showing China and
    everyone else what we can see.


    Thanks so much, JTEM. Your insights are quite welcome here.

    You must be new.


    Old, actually. Been here 20 years. Always appreciated JTEM's input.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Attila@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jul 2 23:51:38 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 17:16:21 -0400, JTEM <[email protected]>
    in alt.atheism with message-id
    <10447j5$3nk84$[email protected]> wrote:

    Attila wrote:

    "so we can redirect military spending into science."

    Yes. What is it you're having so much difficulty with?

    If we had "Peace on earth," if we didn't need these
    militarizes we could re-direct spending to science.

    Exactly right.

    Problem is, you being a disordered twit, you can't
    see beyond yourself, and you are stuck in today.

    The real problem is that I did not write that.

    --


    Every person in the US is here either
    legally or illegally. If they are here
    illegally they should be identified and
    deported as soon as possible without
    exception.

    Deport them all.

    All politicians are trained to lie
    and make those lies sound like
    the truth. They start with the biggest
    lie of all: Politicians are public
    servants.

    The Dims have an appropriate party
    symbol: A jackass.

    Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
    and abhorrent.
    Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

    I support:

    A Constitional Amendment establishing
    the Freedom of Choice.

    The elimination of public expression,
    display or support of religion or
    religious positions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Attila@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jul 3 08:11:09 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    On Thu, 3 Jul 2025 00:18:53 -0400, JTEM <[email protected]>
    in alt.atheism with message-id
    <10450bd$3vvn2$[email protected]> wrote:

    On 7/2/25 11:51 PM, Attila wrote:

    The real

    Stop being a pussy.

    If you would bother to look at message
    <[email protected]>

    you can easily see who said what.

    Your habit of mutilating a post by cutting away all
    attributes and most of what was previously posted is nothing
    more than a way to forge whatever you like in order to set
    up what you consider a witty response.

    Occasionally you are half right - the rest of the time you
    are simply pathetic in your desperate attempts to gain some
    kind of recognition for your otherwise forgettable and
    useless life.

    Your feeble attempt at having a webpage only drives this
    home.

    --


    Every person in the US is here either
    legally or illegally. If they are here
    illegally they should be identified and
    deported as soon as possible without
    exception.

    Deport them all.

    All politicians are trained to lie
    and make those lies sound like
    the truth. They start with the biggest
    lie of all: Politicians are public
    servants.

    The Dims have an appropriate party
    symbol: A jackass.

    Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
    and abhorrent.
    Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

    I support:

    A Constitional Amendment establishing
    the Freedom of Choice.

    The elimination of public expression,
    display or support of religion or
    religious positions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Attila@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jul 3 18:40:45 2025
    XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.ufo.reports
    XPost: alt.alien.research

    On Thu, 3 Jul 2025 16:56:52 -0400, JTEM <[email protected]>
    in alt.atheism with message-id
    <1046qqk$bsl7$[email protected]> wrote:

    Attila wrote:

    If you would bother to look at message

    IT'S A THREAD ABOUT exo (astro) biology.

    For some reason this triggered one or more of your
    personality disorders...

    Fact is we can find life bearing worlds at great
    distances, and do so far easier than we can find
    life within our own solar system.

    This triggered you and for that I am laughing at you!

    You're a joke!

    Or was it the fact that if UFO mythology is correct,
    little gray men are visiting the earth, then it would
    STILL be easier to identify their home world, prove
    that there is life on their home world than it would be
    to prove that they are here...

    Did THAT trigger you?

    Was it THAT that caused your emotional collapse?

    Why?

    Aside from the subject of the thread you made some
    incredibly stupid (in my opinion) comments and I responded
    with my disagreement.

    In message ID <10447j5$3nk84$[email protected]> you posted a
    single partial line from your post previously referenced and
    indicated I was the one who said it.

    I did not say what you indicated I said and your habit of
    removing almost everything from a prior post in your
    responses is nothing more than a poor attempt to selectively
    find something you can alter into a point you wish to
    oppose.

    I have seen you post such garbage here for years and you ran
    out of new material years ago while failing to get anyone to
    change their mind and agree with you.

    You are a troll who is here to incite a flame war and for no
    other purpose.

    I will continue to ignore what you say as I have mostly done
    for many years. I admit I occasionally waste a bit of time
    and comment on whatever drivel you are pushing at the
    moment.

    --


    Every person in the US is here either
    legally or illegally. If they are here
    illegally they should be identified and
    deported as soon as possible without
    exception.

    Deport them all.

    All politicians are trained to lie
    and make those lies sound like
    the truth. They start with the biggest
    lie of all: Politicians are public
    servants.

    The Dims have an appropriate party
    symbol: A jackass.

    Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting
    and abhorrent.
    Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying.

    I support:

    A Constitional Amendment establishing
    the Freedom of Choice.

    The elimination of public expression,
    display or support of religion or
    religious positions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)