• [ANN] SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1

    From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 21 13:47:48 2025
    # SR/InertialFrames

    SR/InertialFrames v2.2.1
    STUDY.Physics.SpecialRelativity/InertialFrames
    Physics case studies: Special Relativity: Inertial Frames <https://github.com/jp-diegidio/STUDY.Physics.SpecialRelativity>

    Contains:
    - Formal analysis
    - Interactive diagram
    - Source code

    ## The game

    Bob and Alice pass by each other collinearly at a relative
    constant speed. They reset their respective clocks to zero
    at the moment they are colocated.

    ## The outcome

    The space-time diagrams make concrete the *clock hypothesis*,
    i.e. proper time as **absolute time**, recovering absolute time
    as the fundamental dynamic variable, and with it the relativistic
    symmetry of the frame perspectives.

    The diagrams also show that, relative to any frame of reference,
    any particle moves into the future and in space at a speed that
    is *faster than measured* in that frame (i.e. in a plane of
    simultaneity) by exactly its Lorentz factor. And this already
    and essentially is **time travel**.

    In particular, the 4-velocity of light in any frame of reference
    is (scalarly) **infinite** in all components, its magnitude being
    exactly the *measured light* *speed* times its Lorentz factor
    (see [the formal analysis] for details).

    ## Changes

    Changes from v1.0.0-alpha:
    - [Func] Added isochrones to diagram
    - [Func] Analysis fully rewritten
    - [Impl] Improved code throughout
    - [Tech] Restructured folders <= BREAKING: Most URL's have changed!

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Sat May 24 13:13:36 2025
    On 21/05/2025 13:47, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

    The space-time diagrams make concrete the *clock hypothesis*,
    i.e. proper time as **absolute time**, recovering absolute time
    as the fundamental dynamic variable, and with it the relativistic
    symmetry of the frame perspectives.

    ...reconciling relativity with quantum mechanics.
    Even just for that, I'd deserve a Nobel in Physics!

    Meanwhile, another one is in the making:
    "Cosmology: Courtesy Mach's Principle",
    where we recover our absolute frame of reference.

    Of course, there are few more ingredients involved,
    a most important one being Geometric Algebra, so
    gravity is a force and space-time is just flat.

    (Re)discovering physics: stay tuned...

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Sat May 24 15:16:57 2025
    On 24/05/2025 13:13, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 21/05/2025 13:47, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

    The space-time diagrams make concrete the *clock hypothesis*,
    i.e. proper time as **absolute time**, recovering absolute time
    as the fundamental dynamic variable, and with it the relativistic
    symmetry of the frame perspectives.

    ...reconciling relativity with quantum mechanics.
    Even just for that, I'd deserve a Nobel in Physics!

    Meanwhile, another one is in the making:
    "Cosmology: Courtesy Mach's Principle",
    where we recover our absolute frame of reference.

    But I am quite incompetent in history, it's Newton's Bucket
    according to Wikipedia what I actually have in mind:

    << The writing in which Einstein found inspiration was Mach's
    book The Science of Mechanics (1883, tr. 1893), where the
    philosopher criticized Newton's idea of absolute space, in
    particular the argument that Newton gave sustaining the
    existence of an advantaged reference system: what is
    commonly called "Newton's bucket argument". >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach's_principle>

    Of course, there are few more ingredients involved,
    a most important one being Geometric Algebra, so
    gravity is a force and space-time is just flat.

    (Re)discovering physics: stay tuned...

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Sat May 24 17:21:54 2025
    On 24/05/2025 16:48, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 05/21/2025 04:47 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

    A clock hypothesis: is a pretty usual idea, that there
    are no closed time-like curves and furthermore that whatever
    meets has whatever clocks meet. Einstein called it a, "the time",

    That's false on all accounts, including the time travel
    side of things, you still cannot get your head around
    which, apparently. That said, thanks for asking:

    The "clock hypothesis", in simple terms, is the principle
    that all working clocks tick at the same rate (the proper
    time rate) in their own frame. Drop that and you drop
    any chance of doing any physics at all: together with
    the use of light signals, clocks are fundamental to
    contemporary physics and the very measurement process.

    It is also equivalently the hypothesis that the local
    experience of time is universally the same for every
    particle and every observer: and I do not actually
    mean anything psychological, rather the rate of getting
    old, just like the rate of atom decay, is a physics fact.

    And note that none of that is about inertial frames and
    motion only: time proper ticks at the same rate every
    time every place. Indeed, time dilation and length
    contraction are only relativistic effects, we know that,
    don't we? "Nothing is actually slowing or shortening
    aboard that ship", which remains canonical relativity.

    -Julio

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  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 25 06:31:38 2025
    Am Samstag000024, 24.05.2025 um 19:53 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
    On 05/24/2025 08:21 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 24/05/2025 16:48, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 05/21/2025 04:47 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

    A clock hypothesis: is a pretty usual idea, that there
    are no closed time-like curves and furthermore that whatever
    meets has whatever clocks meet. Einstein called it a, "the time",

    That's false on all accounts, including the time travel
    side of things, you still cannot get your head around
    which, apparently.  That said, thanks for asking:

    The "clock hypothesis", in simple terms, is the principle
    that all working clocks tick at the same rate (the proper
    time rate) in their own frame.  Drop that and you drop
    any chance of doing any physics at all: together with
    the use of light signals, clocks are fundamental to
    contemporary physics and the very measurement process.

    It is also equivalently the hypothesis that the local
    experience of time is universally the same for every
    particle and every observer: and I do not actually
    mean anything psychological, rather the rate of getting
    old, just like the rate of atom decay, is a physics fact.

    And note that none of that is about inertial frames and
    motion only: time proper ticks at the same rate every
    time every place.  Indeed, time dilation and length
    contraction are only relativistic effects, we know that,
    don't we? "Nothing is actually slowing or shortening
    aboard that ship", which remains canonical relativity.

    -Julio


    Ah, no, "clock hypothesis" is usually that there's
    a, "universal time", for example an Einstein's "the time".

    'a universal time' for the entire universe does not make sense!


    We need actually the concept of 'local time' and sets of locations,
    which share the same local time and build in sum what I call a 'time
    domaine'.

    On-time-only-universe is plain wrong!

    The reasons to think so are a little tricky.

    But there exists a good book about this topic, which I like to recommend:

    Alexander Franklin Meyer 'Geometry of Time'.


    I can also offer my own 'book' called 'structured spacetime'.

    (This can be found here and is actually free to read and download - at
    least up to now:


    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing
    )


    TH
    ...

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  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 25 13:08:03 2025
    Den 24.05.2025 17:21, skrev Julio Di Egidio:
    which, apparently.  That said, thanks for asking:

    The "clock hypothesis", in simple terms, is the principle
    that all working clocks tick at the same rate (the proper
    time rate) in their own frame.  Drop that and you drop
    any chance of doing any physics at all: together with
    the use of light signals, clocks are fundamental to
    contemporary physics and the very measurement process.

    It is also equivalently the hypothesis that the local
    experience of time is universally the same for every
    particle and every observer: and I do not actually
    mean anything psychological, rather the rate of getting
    old, just like the rate of atom decay, is a physics fact.

    And note that none of that is about inertial frames and
    motion only: time proper ticks at the same rate every
    time every place.  Indeed, time dilation and length
    contraction are only relativistic effects, we know that,
    don't we? "Nothing is actually slowing or shortening
    aboard that ship", which remains canonical relativity.

    -Julio


    Well said!

    https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf
    See 1.1.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Thomas Heger on Sun May 25 13:46:12 2025
    On 25/05/2025 06:31, Thomas Heger wrote:
    Am Samstag000024, 24.05.2025 um 19:53 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
    On 05/24/2025 08:21 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 24/05/2025 16:48, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 05/21/2025 04:47 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

    A clock hypothesis: is a pretty usual idea, that there
    are no closed time-like curves and furthermore that whatever
    meets has whatever clocks meet. Einstein called it a, "the time",

    That's false on all accounts, including the time travel
    side of things, you still cannot get your head around
    which, apparently.  That said, thanks for asking:

    The "clock hypothesis", in simple terms, is the principle
    that all working clocks tick at the same rate (the proper
    time rate) in their own frame.  Drop that and you drop
    any chance of doing any physics at all: together with
    the use of light signals, clocks are fundamental to
    contemporary physics and the very measurement process.

    It is also equivalently the hypothesis that the local
    experience of time is universally the same for every
    particle and every observer: and I do not actually
    mean anything psychological, rather the rate of getting
    old, just like the rate of atom decay, is a physics fact.

    And note that none of that is about inertial frames and
    motion only: time proper ticks at the same rate every
    time every place.  Indeed, time dilation and length
    contraction are only relativistic effects, we know that,
    don't we? "Nothing is actually slowing or shortening
    aboard that ship", which remains canonical relativity.

    Ah, no, "clock hypothesis" is usually that there's
    a, "universal time", for example an Einstein's "the time".

    'a universal time' for the entire universe does not make sense!

    We need actually the concept of 'local time' and sets of locations,
    which share the same local time and build in sum what I call a 'time domaine'.

    On-time-only-universe is plain wrong!

    The reasons to think so are a little tricky.

    But there exists a good book about this topic, which I like to recommend:

    A resident clown chimes in.

    How fucking pathetic to put it charitably.

    *Plonk*

    -Julio

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Sun May 25 16:22:55 2025
    On 5/25/2025 1:08 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 24.05.2025 17:21, skrev Julio Di Egidio:
    which, apparently.  That said, thanks for asking:

    The "clock hypothesis", in simple terms, is the principle
    that all working clocks tick at the same rate (the proper
    time rate) in their own frame.


    Anyone can check GPs, in the real world
    the rate of Cs clocks is either 9 192 631 770
    or 9 192 631 774. Not even talking about
    pendulum clocks. Good bye, "clock hypothesis",
    good bye The Shit of Einstein.

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Sun May 25 21:46:05 2025
    On 21/05/2025 13:47, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

    The diagrams also show that, relative to any frame of reference,
    any particle moves into the future and in space at a speed that
    is *faster than measured* in that frame (i.e. in a plane of
    simultaneity) by exactly its Lorentz factor.  And this already
    and essentially is **time travel**.

    In particular, the 4-velocity of light in any frame of reference

    Given that the *world line* of a "particle" is the
    continuos line through the *individual instances*
    in (proper!) time of that particle (just for some
    terminology):

    An immediate consequence of the fact that light
    signals actually travel at infinite speed is that
    every individual particle in this Universe must
    be entangled not just with some of its neighbours
    (in fact, across space and time as it turns out),
    but with most (transitively) of the other instances
    of the same particle along its own world line,
    i.e. as soon as there are any mirrors around...

    Where "self-entanglement along the world-line"
    seems to me a good starting point for coherence
    conditions for retro-causation, aka a solution
    to the Twin Paradox.

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Mon May 26 05:47:12 2025
    On 26/05/2025 02:41, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    Hmm..., "retro-causation", ..., not causation?

    Causation, too: but nobody seems bothered by that. :)

    No, seriously, the fact with the Twins is (and this can
    be shown with diagrams!) that, assuming you are the one
    who travels of us two: you (the individual I am talking
    to here and now) will meet an older "me" when you get
    back (not the me you are talking to here and now); while
    I will meet a younger "you" when, at a later (proper)
    time than that, "you" get back to me!

    Namely, there are *two* (in proper time!) separate
    rendezvous "events" (the standard terminology is rather
    a hindrance), and here is the Twin Paradox: what if I
    decide to kill myself in between the (proper) time you
    get back (the first rendezvous), where you get to see
    "me", and the (later, proper) time when I am supposed
    to get to my rendezvous with "you"?

    Coherence conditions is my best bet, as opposed to
    everything goes, as that immediately makes no sense:
    ultimately in a quantum mechanical form (information),
    but already geometrically because *zero* (proper)
    distance along a light-like path I take for serious:
    zero distance is direct contact, and even sameness...

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Mon May 26 06:42:06 2025
    On 26/05/2025 06:19, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    Then that it results that they get back together in
    the proper time with their entire surrounds,

    Is you forever stuck with just idols and bullshit.

    Warm regards I'd wish you luck in your theoretical developments.

    Sure, my twin will let you know how it goes...

    Thanks for playing,

    -Julio

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  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 26 08:18:56 2025
    Am Sonntag000025, 25.05.2025 um 13:46 schrieb Julio Di Egidio:
    On 25/05/2025 06:31, Thomas Heger wrote:
    Am Samstag000024, 24.05.2025 um 19:53 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
    On 05/24/2025 08:21 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 24/05/2025 16:48, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 05/21/2025 04:47 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

    A clock hypothesis: is a pretty usual idea, that there
    are no closed time-like curves and furthermore that whatever
    meets has whatever clocks meet. Einstein called it a, "the time",

    That's false on all accounts, including the time travel
    side of things, you still cannot get your head around
    which, apparently.  That said, thanks for asking:

    The "clock hypothesis", in simple terms, is the principle
    that all working clocks tick at the same rate (the proper
    time rate) in their own frame.  Drop that and you drop
    any chance of doing any physics at all: together with
    the use of light signals, clocks are fundamental to
    contemporary physics and the very measurement process.

    It is also equivalently the hypothesis that the local
    experience of time is universally the same for every
    particle and every observer: and I do not actually
    mean anything psychological, rather the rate of getting
    old, just like the rate of atom decay, is a physics fact.

    And note that none of that is about inertial frames and
    motion only: time proper ticks at the same rate every
    time every place.  Indeed, time dilation and length
    contraction are only relativistic effects, we know that,
    don't we? "Nothing is actually slowing or shortening
    aboard that ship", which remains canonical relativity.

    Ah, no, "clock hypothesis" is usually that there's
    a, "universal time", for example an Einstein's "the time".

    'a universal time' for the entire universe does not make sense!

    We need actually the concept of 'local time' and sets of locations,
    which share the same local time and build in sum what I call a 'time
    domaine'.

    On-time-only-universe is plain wrong!

    The reasons to think so are a little tricky.

    But there exists a good book about this topic, which I like to recommend:

    A resident clown chimes in.

    How fucking pathetic to put it charitably.


    'Local time' is an important concept by e.g. Henry Poincaré.

    Why time should be a local parameter is justified by a number of reasons.

    For instance the very idea of GR is based on 'many timelines', not just
    a single one.

    But also pair-production and the issue of 'anti-matter' can be nicely
    be explained by different 'worlds' which have their own, but opposite time.

    There are a few more topics, where local time would be important.

    But a very good reason is actually 'symmetry'.

    Because if you take time as local parameter, you could combine time with
    the (also local) axes of space to fourvectors, if you regard the axis of
    time as imaginary (what Poincaré actually did).

    Now you could create four-vectors, with imaginary scalar parts.

    These mathematical objects do in fact exist and have the nice name
    'complex four-vectors' (aka 'biquaternions').

    This can be symbolized by a geometric figure called 'star tetrahedron',
    if you add the inverted imaginary four-vector from our world 'head down'
    to our own, which has a 'four spike vector' 'head up'.

    These things called 'biquaternions' are not known to a wider audience,
    but have already turned out to be extremly useful in phyics (and other
    realms).

    I have depicted this topic in my 'book' about 'structured spacetime':

    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing

    which I would recommend, because it is still free to read or download
    and actually much easier to read (and also much nicer) than most books
    in theoretical physics.

    The 'very good reason' for this concept, btw, is its simplicity.

    The main diasadvantage is, that it is very counter-intuitive.

    TH

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Mon May 26 16:34:16 2025
    On 26/05/2025 05:47, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 26/05/2025 02:41, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    Hmm..., "retro-causation", ..., not causation?

    Causation, too: but nobody seems bothered by that. :)
    <snip>
    Coherence conditions is my best bet, as opposed to
    everything goes, as that immediately makes no sense:
    ultimately in a quantum mechanical form (information),
    but already geometrically because *zero* (proper)
    distance along a light-like path I take for serious:
    zero distance is direct contact, and even sameness...

    # A coherence law for retro-causation: the observer.

    The observer from the future...

    The idea of a "fixed block universe", such that all past,
    present, and future is already fixed and given (and that
    all thought of free will or chance is illusory) is neither
    satisfactory nor warranted: and not even quite reasonable.

    The idea of a "growing block universe" is a bit better,
    but, either the past does not exist either, i.e. only the
    *proper* present exists, or the future does exist, too
    (that difference being mostly a matter of "conventions").

    The idea of a "dynamic block universe" is most natural:
    *we are pure induction in action*, which is beyond and
    before *physics*...

    Meanwhile:
    - symmetry <=> conservation
    - coherence <=> (cancellation down to least) action

    And that should be my last post on the matter for a
    while, though I remain open to questions/questioning.

    Cheers,

    -Julio

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  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 26 20:11:47 2025
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    No, seriously, the fact with the Twins is (and this can
    be shown with diagrams!) that, assuming you are the one
    who travels of us two: you (the individual I am talking
    to here and now) will meet an older "me" when you get
    back (not the me you are talking to here and now); while
    I will meet a younger "you" when, at a later (proper)
    time than that, "you" get back to me!


    Quite. Seriously the fact is:
    At the event "we are co-located and you start your engine",
    we are equally old.
    At the event "reunion",
    you will meet an older "me" (meaning "you are younger than me"),
    and I will meet a younger "you" (meaning " I will be older than you").


    Namely, there are *two* (in proper time!) separate
    rendezvous "events" (the standard terminology is rather
    a hindrance), and here is the Twin Paradox: what if I
    decide to kill myself in between the (proper) time you
    get back (the first rendezvous), where you get to see
    "me", and the (later, proper) time when I am supposed
    to get to my rendezvous with "you"?

    What a weird idea! :-D

    This is the reality:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Do you claim that the event "travelling clock is back at
    the ground clock", and the event "ground clock is again
    co-located with the travelling clock", are two separate events,
    where at the first event the travelling clock showed t-59 ns,
    when it "saw" that the ground clock showed t,
    and at the second event the ground clock showed t,
    when it "saw" that the travelling clock showed t-59 ns?

    Or what do you claim?

    What did the clocks show at the reunion?



    https://paulba.no/pdf/H&K_like.pdf
    https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByDoppler.pdf
    https://paulba.no/twins.html

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Mon May 26 20:38:01 2025
    On 5/26/2025 8:11 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Mo, the fact is that relativistic idiots
    neither know what they're talking about
    nor what clocks are.

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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 26 19:17:47 2025
    Le 26/05/2025 à 20:38, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 8:11 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Mo, the fact is that relativistic idiots
    neither know what they're talking about
    nor what clocks are.

    I asked a ‘relativistic idiot’ once how to check if two clocks are in synch, I got a sensible answer I implemented in software. Then I asked how
    to adjust them so that they are in synch, then add this to my software and
    it ends up working very well.

    https://noedge.net/e

    Once I asked you how you would do that. Your answer was that you'd asked
    to someone else.

    Hmmm...

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Python on Mon May 26 22:30:18 2025
    On 5/26/2025 9:17 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 20:38, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 8:11 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Mo, the fact is that relativistic idiots
    neither know what they're talking about
    nor what clocks are.

    I asked a ‘relativistic idiot’ once how to check if two clocks are in synch, I got a sensible answer I implemented in software. Then I asked
    how to adjust them so that they are in synch, then add this to my
    software and it ends up working very well.

    Well, their mad religion is forbidding
    them to adjust clocks and teaching that
    synchronizing clocks is impossible (except
    conditions which never happen) - so
    you're most likely lying, like usual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 26 20:42:39 2025
    Le 26/05/2025 à 22:30, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 9:17 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 20:38, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 8:11 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Mo, the fact is that relativistic idiots
    neither know what they're talking about
    nor what clocks are.

    I asked a ‘relativistic idiot’ once how to check if two clocks are in
    synch, I got a sensible answer I implemented in software. Then I asked
    how to adjust them so that they are in synch, then add this to my
    software and it ends up working very well.

    Well, their mad religion is forbidding
    them to adjust clocks and teaching that
    synchronizing clocks is impossible (except
    conditions which never happen)

    This is wrong on all aspects, as you could check in the software I wrote
    back then.

    From the very formulas in Einstein's and Poincaré's paper I implemented a synchronization checking procedure and a synchronization offset procedure.
    You can look at the link I provided that you dismissed, on purpose, in
    your answer.

    - so you're most likely lying, like usual.

    I'm not. Maybe you are, maybe you are misleading. In both cases you are
    wrong :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Python on Mon May 26 23:49:45 2025
    On 5/26/2025 10:42 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 22:30, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 9:17 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 20:38, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 8:11 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Mo, the fact is that relativistic idiots
    neither know what they're talking about
    nor what clocks are.

    I asked a ‘relativistic idiot’ once how to check if two clocks are in >>> synch, I got a sensible answer I implemented in software. Then I
    asked how to adjust them so that they are in synch, then add this to
    my software and it ends up working very well.

    Well,  their mad religion is forbidding
    them to adjust clocks and teaching that
    synchronizing clocks is impossible (except
    conditions which never happen)

    This is wrong on all aspects

    No it is not.


    From the very formulas in Einstein's and Poincaré's paper I implemented
    a synchronization checking procedure and a synchronization offset
    procedure.

    A lie, of course. You didn't use light.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 26 22:12:41 2025
    Le 26/05/2025 à 23:49, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 10:42 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 22:30, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 9:17 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 20:38, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 8:11 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Mo, the fact is that relativistic idiots
    neither know what they're talking about
    nor what clocks are.

    I asked a ‘relativistic idiot’ once how to check if two clocks are in >>>> synch, I got a sensible answer I implemented in software. Then I
    asked how to adjust them so that they are in synch, then add this to
    my software and it ends up working very well.

    Well,  their mad religion is forbidding
    them to adjust clocks and teaching that
    synchronizing clocks is impossible (except
    conditions which never happen)

    This is wrong on all aspects

    No it is not.

    Check for yourself.

    https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

    Especially : § 1. Definition of Simultaneity

    I applied, as you could see in the code, exactly the formulas and defition
    of t_A, t_B nd t'_A there https://noedge.net/e

    From the very formulas in Einstein's and Poincaré's paper I implemented
    a synchronization checking procedure and a synchronization offset
    procedure.

    A lie, of course. You didn't use light.

    I didn't say so. I said I used the very formulas in Einstein's and
    Poincaré's number.

    You do thing that formulas or software "uses light"?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 26 23:28:27 2025
    Le 27/05/2025 à 00:12, Python a écrit :
    Le 26/05/2025 à 23:49, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 10:42 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 22:30, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 9:17 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 20:38, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 8:11 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Mo, the fact is that relativistic idiots
    neither know what they're talking about
    nor what clocks are.

    I asked a ‘relativistic idiot’ once how to check if two clocks are in >>>>> synch, I got a sensible answer I implemented in software. Then I
    asked how to adjust them so that they are in synch, then add this to >>>>> my software and it ends up working very well.

    Well,  their mad religion is forbidding
    them to adjust clocks and teaching that
    synchronizing clocks is impossible (except
    conditions which never happen)

    This is wrong on all aspects

    No it is not.

    Check for yourself.

    https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

    Especially : § 1. Definition of Simultaneity

    I applied, as you could see in the code, exactly the formulas and defition of t_A, t_B nd t'_A there https://noedge.net/e

    From the very formulas in Einstein's and Poincaré's paper I implemented >>> a synchronization checking procedure and a synchronization offset
    procedure.

    A lie, of course. You didn't use light.

    I didn't say so. I said I used the very formulas in Einstein's and Poincaré's
    number.

    You do thing that formulas or software "uses light"?

    It is impossible to "absolutely" harmonize two watches placed in different locations.
    Even more so, a significant number of watches are all placed very far from
    each other, even if they are stationary.
    I am surprised that we are unable to understand this, and that we retain
    an idea of ​​absolute simultaneity as long as things are comoving.
    The only possibility of producing something coherent is to harmonize all
    the watches in an "imaginary" way with a fictitious watch, supposedly
    placed very far away in a fourth dimension, and equidistant from all the
    worlds of the stationary 3D universe of our choice.
    This is what universal time consists of, and this is Einstein's synchronization, without him understanding that, in reality, he measures
    like this.

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Python on Tue May 27 07:42:20 2025
    On 5/27/2025 12:12 AM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 23:49, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 10:42 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 22:30, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 9:17 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 20:38, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 8:11 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Mo, the fact is that relativistic idiots
    neither know what they're talking about
    nor what clocks are.

    I asked a ‘relativistic idiot’ once how to check if two clocks
    are in synch, I got a sensible answer I implemented in software. Then I
    asked how to adjust them so that they are in synch, then add this to my software and it ends up working very well.

    Well, their mad religion is forbidding
    them to adjust clocks and teaching that
    synchronizing clocks is impossible (except
    conditions which never happen)

    This is wrong on all aspects

    No it is not.

    Check for yourself.

    https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

    Especially : § 1. Definition of Simultaneity

    I applied, as you could see in the code, exactly the formulas and
    defition of t_A, t_B nd t'_A there https://noedge.net/e

    From the very formulas in Einstein's and Poincaré's paper I
    implemented a synchronization checking procedure and a synchronization
    offset procedure.

    A lie, of course. You didn't use light.

    I didn't say so. I said I used the very formulas in Einstein's and
    Poincaré's number.

    A simulation as a proof? Seriously?
    How about some proofs for The Force here? https://www.cdkeys.com/pl_pl/star-wars-jedi-knight-collection-pc-steam?channable=4199d469640053574a4544434f4c5043fe&__currency=pln&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_impaffexcgoogle-23=true&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20991758819&gbraid=
    0AAAAADDMAb3lX0uTSbSwxykJ27g8F4fOi&gclid=Cj0KCQjwotDBBhCQARIsAG5pinMUssW4mZWYQ5u8BHJYu86Lns4CQOaJCenkPj4yFix1PPl1jIAL7mwaAn7IEALw_wcB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From squalk@21:1/5 to Richard Hachel on Tue May 27 20:40:27 2025
    Richard Hachel wrote:
    Le 27/05/2025 à 00:12, Python a écrit :
    Le 26/05/2025 à 23:49, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 10:42 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 22:30, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 9:17 PM, Python wrote:
    Le 26/05/2025 à 20:38, Maciej Woźniak a écrit :
    On 5/26/2025 8:11 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Mo, the fact is that relativistic idiots
    neither know what they're talking about
    nor what clocks are.

    I asked a ‘relativistic idiot’ once how to check if two clocks are >>>>>> in synch, I got a sensible answer I implemented in software. Then
    I asked how to adjust them so that they are in synch, then add
    this to my software and it ends up working very well.

    Well,  their mad religion is forbidding
    them to adjust clocks and teaching that
    synchronizing clocks is impossible (except
    conditions which never happen)

    This is wrong on all aspects

    No it is not.

    Check for yourself.

    https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

    Especially : § 1. Definition of Simultaneity

    I applied, as you could see in the code, exactly the formulas and
    defition of t_A, t_B nd t'_A there https://noedge.net/e

     From the very formulas in Einstein's and Poincaré's paper I
    implemented a synchronization checking procedure and a
    synchronization offset procedure.

    A lie, of course. You didn't use light.

    I didn't say so. I said I used the very formulas in Einstein's and
    Poincaré's number.

    You do thing that formulas or software "uses light"?

    It is impossible to "absolutely" harmonize two watches placed in
    different locations.
    Even more so, a significant number of watches are all placed very far
    from each other, even if they are stationary.
    I am surprised that we are unable to understand this, and that we retain
    an idea of ​​absolute simultaneity as long as things are comoving.
    The only possibility of producing something coherent is to harmonize all
    the watches in an "imaginary" way with a fictitious watch, supposedly
    placed very far away in a fourth dimension, and equidistant from all the worlds of the stationary 3D universe of our choice.
    This is what universal time consists of, and this is Einstein's synchronization, without him understanding that, in reality, he measures
    like this.

    R.H.
    -------------------------------

    What if two watches driven by the same chip?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Wed May 28 00:35:41 2025
    On 27/05/2025 18:44, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    Induction alone can never complete the supertasks

    I have been explaining to you how unfounded and stupid
    on multiple levels that is for maybe 20 years now.

    STFU and go away.

    *Plonk*

    -Julio

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Thu May 29 23:47:53 2025
    On Mon, 26 May 2025 18:11:47 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 26.05.2025 05:47, skrev Julio Di Egidio:

    No, seriously, the fact with the Twins is (and this can
    be shown with diagrams!) that, assuming you are the one
    who travels of us two: you (the individual I am talking
    to here and now) will meet an older "me" when you get
    back (not the me you are talking to here and now); while
    I will meet a younger "you" when, at a later (proper)
    time than that, "you" get back to me!


    Quite. Seriously the fact is:
    At the event "we are co-located and you start your engine",
    we are equally old.
    At the event "reunion",
    you will meet an older "me" (meaning "you are younger than me"),
    and I will meet a younger "you" (meaning " I will be older than you").


    Namely, there are *two* (in proper time!) separate
    rendezvous "events" (the standard terminology is rather
    a hindrance), and here is the Twin Paradox: what if I
    decide to kill myself in between the (proper) time you
    get back (the first rendezvous), where you get to see
    "me", and the (later, proper) time when I am supposed
    to get to my rendezvous with "you"?

    What a weird idea! :-D

    This is the reality:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    Fact:
    The east going clock left the ground clock when they were
    synchronous. When it had travelled once around the Earth and
    was back at the ground clock, the travelling clock was 59 ns
    younger than the ground clock, and the ground clock was 59 ns
    older than the travelling clock.

    Do you claim that the event "travelling clock is back at
    the ground clock", and the event "ground clock is again
    co-located with the travelling clock", are two separate events,
    where at the first event the travelling clock showed t-59 ns,
    when it "saw" that the ground clock showed t,
    and at the second event the ground clock showed t,
    when it "saw" that the travelling clock showed t-59 ns?

    Or what do you claim?

    What did the clocks show at the reunion?



    https://paulba.no/pdf/H&K_like.pdf
    https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByMetric.pdf https://paulba.no/pdf/TwinsByDoppler.pdf
    https://paulba.no/twins.html
    Paul, that one clock runs a different rate under certain conditions does
    not warrant the inference that time itself runs at a different rate
    because that would require that all rates of change run at a different
    rate. A clock is only one rate. For an organism to age at a different
    rate requires that many rates change.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 14:19:56 2025
    Den 30.05.2025 01:47, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    Paul, that one clock runs a different rate under certain conditions does
    not warrant the inference that time itself runs at a different rate

    Please define "time itself". How can you measure that the rate of
    "time itself" is different from the rate of your clock?

    See:
    https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf

    Can you point out an error in 1.1 "What is proper time"?

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Fri May 30 14:33:46 2025
    On 5/30/2025 2:19 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf

    Can you point out an error in 1.1 "What is proper time"?

    Easily, poor halfbrain. You and your fellow idiots
    have demonstrated it many times - instead even
    noticing what clocks really indicate (in GPS, for
    instance) you prefer imagining what they should
    indicate according to The Shit of your idiot guru.

    That's "time in physics": not "what we measure
    with clocks ", but "what a mumbling inconsistently
    idiot has told us that we should measure with
    clocks".



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 30 17:12:58 2025
    Le 30/05/2025 à 14:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
    Den 30.05.2025 01:47, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    Paul, that one clock runs a different rate under certain conditions does
    not warrant the inference that time itself runs at a different rate

    Please define "time itself". How can you measure that the rate of
    "time itself" is different from the rate of your clock?

    See:
    https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf

    Can you point out an error in 1.1 "What is proper time"?

    What is proper time?
    It's time measured "loco dolenti," that is, where it hurts, and elsewhere
    in the frame of reference, or worse, elsewhere in another frame of
    reference.
    When someone has pain in a joint, such as the shoulder, you don't inject
    the knee. You inject, in loco dolenti.

    The same is true for measuring time.

    To measure the reality of things, you must measure proper time, that is,
    where it's happening, and with watches tuned to the time of the place
    where it's happening.

    If we are elsewhere, in the same frame of reference, of course, time
    passes at the same speed (otherwise it would be absurd, and we would have
    to say that time passes faster in A than in B, without any logic or motivation). But the instants don't match. Each watch is ahead of the
    other. This is the concept of anisochrony.

    If, moreover, we are not in the same frame of reference, the watches each
    run faster than the watch observed from afar. This is the concept of
    internal chronotropy dilation.

    Internal chronotropies and external anisochronies cause the measured times
    to vary depending on the position and relative speed of the observers.

    Faced with such a mess, there's nothing better than measuring proper time,
    or real time, the only one that everyone agrees on, at least locally.

    Then, we can give an apparent time, which is the proper time of the other observer:
    Tapp = Tr.(1 + cosµ.Vo/c) / sqrt(1 - Vo² / c²)

    It's as simple as that.

    The same goes for lengths, distances, and electromagnetic frequencies. All ratios, entirely all of them, are under the ratio or counter-ratio (1 + cosµ.Vo/c)/sqrt(1 - Vo²/c²).

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to Richard Hachel on Fri May 30 23:37:26 2025
    Richard Hachel <[email protected]> wrote:

    Le 30/05/2025 � 14:13, "Paul.B.Andersen" a �crit :
    Den 30.05.2025 01:47, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    Paul, that one clock runs a different rate under certain conditions does >> not warrant the inference that time itself runs at a different rate

    Please define "time itself". How can you measure that the rate of
    "time itself" is different from the rate of your clock?

    See:
    https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf

    Can you point out an error in 1.1 "What is proper time"?

    What is proper time?
    It's time measured "loco dolenti," that is, where it hurts, and elsewhere
    in the frame of reference, or worse, elsewhere in another frame of
    reference.
    When someone has pain in a joint, such as the shoulder, you don't inject
    the knee. You inject, in loco dolenti.
    [-]

    How does an aspirin know where the pain is?

    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 31 08:56:54 2025
    Am Freitag000030, 30.05.2025 um 14:19 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
    Den 30.05.2025 01:47, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    Paul, that one clock runs a different rate under certain conditions does
    not warrant the inference that time itself runs at a different rate

    Please define "time itself". How can you measure that the rate of
    "time itself" is different from the rate of your clock?

    See:
    https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf


    The measurement of a quantity isn't that quantity, but a different thing.

    You should regard measurements as human artifacts and totally irrelevant
    for nature.

    We can measure something, however, and did so since ancient times.

    But the measurement belongs to us as human beings, while the things we
    measure belong to nature.


    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Thomas Heger on Sat May 31 09:09:06 2025
    On 5/31/2025 8:56 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
    Am Freitag000030, 30.05.2025 um 14:19 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
    Den 30.05.2025 01:47, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    Paul, that one clock runs a different rate under certain conditions does >>> not warrant the inference that time itself runs at a different rate

    Please define "time itself". How can you measure that the rate of
    "time itself" is different from the rate of your clock?

    See:
    https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf


    The measurement of a quantity isn't that quantity, but a different thing.

    You should regard measurements as human artifacts and totally irrelevant
    for nature.

    So are "quantities", unfortunately.


    We can measure something, however, and did so since ancient times.

    But the measurement belongs to us as human beings, while the things we measure belong to nature.

    Nope. "length", "time", "energy", anything -
    are human developed abstracts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 1 09:12:03 2025
    Am Samstag000031, 31.05.2025 um 09:09 schrieb Maciej Woźniak:
    ...

    The measurement of a quantity isn't that quantity, but a different thing.

    You should regard measurements as human artifacts and totally
    irrelevant for nature.

    So are "quantities", unfortunately.

    Actually I make the distinction between measurement and quantity.

    So: we have, say, a stick of e.g. wood. This has a certain form, which
    we measure in -say- meters.

    Now the real thing 'stick' has an attribute, which we call 'length' (or
    'form' or whatever you like).

    But this stick has this attribute without human intervention and whether
    we measure it or not.

    The measure 'meters' however and the measuring device are human
    artifacts and belong into our own realm and would not exist without us.

    Therefore the measurement is an artifact, while the quantity is a real attribute of something we measure.

    The 'cut', however, between the stick of the example above and the tree
    it still belongs to, is an artifact again.


    We can measure something, however, and did so since ancient times.

    But the measurement belongs to us as human beings, while the things we
    measure belong to nature.

    Nope. "length", "time", "energy", anything -
    are human developed abstracts.


    If you say essentially the same, you should not write 'nope'.

    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Thomas Heger on Sun Jun 1 09:45:34 2025
    On 6/1/2025 9:12 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
    Am Samstag000031, 31.05.2025 um 09:09 schrieb Maciej Woźniak:
    ...

    The measurement of a quantity isn't that quantity, but a different
    thing.

    You should regard measurements as human artifacts and totally
    irrelevant for nature.

    So are "quantities", unfortunately.

    Actually I make the distinction between measurement and quantity.

    So do I, both are human concepts, however.

    So: we have, say, a stick of e.g. wood. This has a certain form, which
    we measure in -say- meters.

    Now the real thing 'stick' has an attribute, which we call 'length' (or 'form' or whatever you like).

    But this stick has this attribute without human intervention and whether
    we measure it or not.

    Well, wrong. It's us who assigned this attribute
    to this stick.



    The measure 'meters' however and the measuring device are human
    artifacts and belong into our own realm and would not exist without us.

    Therefore the measurement is an artifact, while the quantity is a real attribute of something we measure.

    The 'cut', however, between the stick of the example above and the tree
    it still belongs to, is an artifact again.


    We can measure something, however, and did so since ancient times.

    But the measurement belongs to us as human beings, while the things
    we measure belong to nature.

    Nope. "length", "time", "energy", anything -
    are human developed abstracts.


    If you say essentially the same, you should not write 'nope'.

    But I write the opposite. The things we measure -
    "length", "time", "energy", anything - are human
    developed abstracts.

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to LaurenceClarkCrossen on Sun Jun 1 12:35:24 2025
    On 30/05/2025 01:47, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:
    On Mon, 26 May 2025 18:11:47 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    What a weird idea! :-D

    What yet another resident fraud and vile nazi-retard piece of shit.

    This is the reality:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    That is nothing, it's even worse than the standard fraud of never
    ever drawing the twin's own diagram.

    Paul, that one clock runs a different rate under certai
    conditions does not warrant the inference that time itself

    I think you guys just cannot even really read.

    *Plonk*

    -Julio

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  • From Paul B. Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 1 14:47:43 2025
    Den 01.06.2025 12:35, skrev Julio Di Egidio:
    On Mon, 26 May 2025 18:11:47 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    This is the reality:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    That is nothing, it's even worse than the standard fraud of never
    ever drawing the twin's own diagram.

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele_Keating.pdf

    What is your problem with this paper?

    Are you claiming it is a fraud?


    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Sun Jun 1 14:41:35 2025
    On 26/05/2025 16:34, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 26/05/2025 05:47, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    <snip>
    Coherence conditions is my best bet, as opposed to
    everything goes, as that immediately makes no sense:
    ultimately in a quantum mechanical form (information),
    but already geometrically because *zero* (proper)
    distance along a light-like path I take for serious:
    zero distance is direct contact, and even sameness...

    # A coherence law for retro-causation: the observer.

    The observer from the future...

    "Decoherence as co-coherence."

    Consider the (Minkowski) space-time structure (which
    is a mapping of our Universe), and project it onto the
    (isochronous) space of a/"our" proper present: here we
    have *decoherence*, as a loss of quantum information,
    and a "collapse" to classical probabilities. Kind of
    a *co-holographic* principle.

    -Julio

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Paul B. Andersen on Sun Jun 1 15:43:20 2025
    On 6/1/2025 2:47 PM, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
    Den 01.06.2025 12:35, skrev Julio Di Egidio:
    On Mon, 26 May 2025 18:11:47 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    This is the reality:

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele.pdf

    That is nothing, it's even worse than the standard fraud of never
    ever drawing the twin's own diagram.

    https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele_Keating.pdf

    What is your problem with this paper?

    Are you claiming it is a fraud?

    It's OK - except the idiotic conclusuions
    relativistic idiots have drawn from it.
    Well, stupidity obliges.

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  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 1 13:33:07 2025
    Le 01/06/2025 à 14:41, Julio Di Egidio a écrit :

    Consider the (Minkowski) space-time structure

    -Julio

    I laughed.

    R.H.

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Mon Jun 2 15:36:37 2025
    On 02/06/2025 08:27, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 06/01/2025 05:41 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 26/05/2025 16:34, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 26/05/2025 05:47, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    <snip>
    Coherence conditions is my best bet, as opposed to
    everything goes, as that immediately makes no sense:
    ultimately in a quantum mechanical form (information),
    but already geometrically because *zero* (proper)
    distance along a light-like path I take for serious:
    zero distance is direct contact, and even sameness...

    # A coherence law for retro-causation: the observer.

    The observer from the future...

    "Decoherence as co-coherence."

    Consider the (Minkowski) space-time structure (which
    is a mapping of our Universe), and project it onto the
    (isochronous) space of a/"our" proper present: here we
    have *decoherence*, as a loss of quantum information,
    and a "collapse" to classical probabilities.  Kind of
    a *co-holographic* principle.

    How is it, "merely a linear continuum", these three
    space dimensions and a ray of time?

    Simple but not over-simple...

    1) you should really care not to conflate the map with
    the territory: coordinate time is not proper time; and,

    2) complex systems go with non-linearity: in particular,
    non-Markovian, i.e. the role of history/memory, whence
    the need for an absolute/universal frame of reference
    that is a "line", not just a "point".

    In particular, the present is and must be a reflection
    of the whole (analogous to how infinite is preliminary
    to finite): which is about logical coherence/integrity
    as a prerequisite (projection/extrapolation), and the
    *formation power* of that coherence (aka "induction").

    More generally, understanding, then (conscientiously)
    enacting, is more than just fitting the data: "give
    me a long enough lever and I'll move the Earth" is
    non-local already...

    The practice of super-string theory (where super-strings
    are effectively twice as many times smaller than atoms
    than physics' atoms are smaller than us) of making
    "more dimensions" to book-keep "more infinitesimals"
    has that nature does it in less.

    It's hard to draw judgement on any of that once you
    realise that incongruences and non-collimations are
    immediately due to how fundamentally broken infinity
    is in standard mathematics (and that is just the most
    concrete of a chain of issues that become more and
    more severe going past the literal/naive level).
    Are you going to take it on the physicists that they
    have been trusting the wrong logic and mathematics?

    Indeed, I think at this point we can at least clearly
    see (i.e. looking at my diagrams and the interlocking
    and scaling there) that/how there are different and
    not independent scales: of *existence*, not just
    description...

    -Julio

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  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 2 17:50:18 2025
    Am Sonntag000001, 01.06.2025 um 09:45 schrieb Maciej Woźniak:
    On 6/1/2025 9:12 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
    Am Samstag000031, 31.05.2025 um 09:09 schrieb Maciej Woźniak:
    ...

    The measurement of a quantity isn't that quantity, but a different
    thing.

    You should regard measurements as human artifacts and totally
    irrelevant for nature.

    So are "quantities", unfortunately.

    Actually I make the distinction between measurement and quantity.

    So do I, both are human concepts, however.

    So: we have, say, a stick of e.g. wood. This has a certain form, which
    we measure in -say- meters.

    Now the real thing 'stick' has an attribute, which we call
    'length' (or 'form' or whatever you like).

    But this stick has this attribute without human intervention and
    whether we measure it or not.

    Well, wrong. It's us who assigned this attribute
    to this stick.


    sure, since sticks don't measure themselves.

    But I wanted to express, that the attributes belong to the object, which
    has that particular feature, and not to the measuring device.

    The object 'stick', for instance, takes therefore it's length with it,
    once it moves away.

    So: the attribute is 'glued' to the object, while the observer is
    'glued' to the measuring device.

    These are two different realms and only the measuring device belongs to
    our realm.

    (The attribute of an object belongs to that object.)

    The measure 'meters' however and the measuring device are human
    artifacts and belong into our own realm and would not exist without us.

    Therefore the measurement is an artifact, while the quantity is a real
    attribute of something we measure.

    The 'cut', however, between the stick of the example above and the
    tree it still belongs to, is an artifact again.


    We can measure something, however, and did so since ancient times.

    But the measurement belongs to us as human beings, while the things
    we measure belong to nature.

    Nope. "length", "time", "energy", anything -
    are human developed abstracts.


    If you say essentially the same, you should not write 'nope'.

    But I write the opposite. The things we measure -
    "length", "time", "energy", anything - are human
    developed abstracts.

    You are correct, but I see no difference to what I have written.


    TH

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  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 3 08:38:15 2025
    Am Montag000002, 02.06.2025 um 08:27 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
    On 06/01/2025 05:41 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 26/05/2025 16:34, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 26/05/2025 05:47, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    <snip>
    Coherence conditions is my best bet, as opposed to
    everything goes, as that immediately makes no sense:
    ultimately in a quantum mechanical form (information),
    but already geometrically because *zero* (proper)
    distance along a light-like path I take for serious:
    zero distance is direct contact, and even sameness...

    # A coherence law for retro-causation: the observer.

    The observer from the future...

    "Decoherence as co-coherence."

    Consider the (Minkowski) space-time structure (which
    is a mapping of our Universe), and project it onto the
    (isochronous) space of a/"our" proper present: here we
    have *decoherence*, as a loss of quantum information,
    and a "collapse" to classical probabilities.  Kind of
    a *co-holographic* principle.

    -Julio


    How is it, "merely a linear continuum", these three
    space dimensions and a ray of time?

    There ain't no 'ray of time'.

    Time behaves like an imaginary axis, if the axes of space are real.

    Now the axis of time can be rotated, what makes new axes real, hence new
    spaces emerge from nothing (seemingly) if you would do that (rotate the
    axis of time).

    TH
    ...

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Thu Jun 5 08:04:26 2025
    On 6/5/2025 6:38 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:


    Coordinates are sort of arbitrary, according to
    what is the metric and norm, like in relativity
    theory when Einstein is like "look, it's coordinate-free",

    Great!! Coordinate free!!! Like apes sitting
    on a tree and eating bananas, they're also
    coordinate free.

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Thu Jun 5 11:04:19 2025
    On 05/06/2025 06:38, Ross Finlayson wrote:

    Then about infinity mathematically, it's a continuum mechanics.
    Of course you at least have some idea about my opinions.

    STFU, the only limit you know is where inconsistency meets insincerity.

    *Plonk*

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Ross Finlayson on Thu Jun 5 13:46:03 2025
    On 05/06/2025 06:38, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 06/02/2025 06:36 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

    Indeed, I think at this point we can at least clearly
    see (i.e. looking at my diagrams and the interlocking
    and scaling there) that/how there are different and
    not independent scales: of *existence*, not just
    description...

    Hey, warm regards, thanks for the interesting reading.

    "The speed at which mathematical symbols can carry
    information."

    "Our main concentration will not be on how clever we are
    to have found it all out, but on how clever She is to pay
    attention to it."

    Richard Feynman - The Character of Physical Law (1964) <https://youtu.be/kEx-gRfuhhk?si=6sovPD19f5_v6xd8&t=2664>

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Wed Jun 11 13:42:23 2025
    On 01/06/2025 14:41, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 26/05/2025 16:34, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 26/05/2025 05:47, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    <snip>
    Coherence conditions is my best bet, as opposed to
    everything goes, as that immediately makes no sense:
    ultimately in a quantum mechanical form (information),
    but already geometrically because *zero* (proper)
    distance along a light-like path I take for serious:
    zero distance is direct contact, and even sameness...

    # A coherence law for retro-causation: the observer.

    The observer from the future...

    "Decoherence as co-coherence."

    Consider the (Minkowski) space-time structure (which
    is a mapping of our Universe), and project it onto the
    (isochronous) space of a/"our" proper present: here we
    have *decoherence*, as a loss of quantum information,
    and a "collapse" to classical probabilities.  Kind of
    a *co-holographic* principle.

    Let me add this to the collection (thanks for the link):
    "Experimental evidence for the physical delocalization of
    individual photons in an interferometer" (Japan, 2025): <https://arxiv.org/pdf/2505.00336>

    Meanwhile, I was re-looking into relativistic dynamics:
    it's all in terms of 4-vectors, and of course there is
    a Lorentz factor everywhere.

    There are *6 points x 2 diagrams* in my representation.
    The irony with mainstream physics is, the real things,
    i.e. the real position of a particle as well as what we
    can observe of it, are suppressed, while "measurement"
    as a set of procedures in a "plane of simultaneity",
    which is unreal and, as far as I can tell, useless, is
    the only and only only thing that is taken for serious,
    together with the systematic suppression of the dual
    of any relativistic diagram, i.e. what's actually
    happening on board "the other" ship.

    The fact that the *actual* "speed of light" (i.e. the
    magnitude of the 4-velocity, but also its each component
    singularly) is *infinite* (equal to \gamma(c) precisely),
    not only implies a geometry where past and future both
    matter, but rather makes me wonder if we can recover
    basic quantum via plain optics... (And I think for that
    we/I need to work out a most basic version of the Twin
    Paradox: the motif should be WYSIWYG.)

    -Julio

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  • From Julio Di Egidio@21:1/5 to Julio Di Egidio on Wed Jun 11 13:51:09 2025
    On 11/06/2025 13:42, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
    On 01/06/2025 14:41, Julio Di Egidio wrote:

    The fact that the *actual* "speed of light" (i.e. the
    magnitude of the 4-velocity, but also its each component
    singularly) is *infinite* (equal to \gamma(c) precisely),

    That is not precisely said, in 1+1 D the velocity of
    "light" is (1,c)*gamma(c): anyway, you get the point.

    -Julio

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