• Feynman's Light Clock

    From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 4 18:42:33 2025
    Feynman thought that time ran faster in higher gravity because his light
    clock in a rocket ship ran faster the faster it accelerated. The light
    flashes bounced from end to end.

    Source: The Feynman Lectures on Physics Vol. II Ch. 42: Curved Space https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_42.html
    SEE FIGURE Fig. 42–17.A clock at the head of an accelerating rocket ship appears to run faster than a clock at the tail.

    He said that time would also run faster because all processes, such as
    your heartbeat, would run faster.

    Of course, now relativists say the opposite about GPS clocks:
    Less gravity = faster clocks.

    Then is it warranted to conclude from the rate of clocks that time
    itself (all processes) changes?

    No. Clearly, it is not.

    Relativists now will say that atomic clocks are better than light
    clocks, so we can judge by them.

    The clock's rate is only one process, so it cannot be equated to the
    rate of time.

    This proves that if you have at least an 85 IQ and actually use it, you
    are more intelligent than Einstein and his followers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 4 21:38:02 2025
    Feynman then says, "Our ideas about relativity, quantum physics, and
    energy conservation all fit together only if Einstein’s predictions
    about clocks in a gravitational field are right."

    However, according to him, the prediction was that the clocks would move
    faster in stronger gravity, while the atomic clocks have proven the
    opposite.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to LaurenceClarkCrossen on Mon May 5 12:56:12 2025
    On 2025-05-04 18:42:33 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

    Feynman thought that time ran faster in higher gravity because his light clock in a rocket ship ran faster the faster it accelerated. The light flashes bounced from end to end.

    Actual experiments have shown that the prediction was correct.

    Relativists now will say that atomic clocks are better than light
    clocks, so we can judge by them.

    They are better for practical purposes such as the definition of
    the meaning of a measurement of time.

    The clock's rate is only one process, so it cannot be equated to the
    rate of time.

    One of those processes can be equated to meaning of the measurement
    of time. The expression "the rate of time" can be left without
    meaning because it is not that important.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to LaurenceClarkCrossen on Mon May 5 13:00:21 2025
    On 2025-05-04 21:38:02 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

    Feynman then says, "Our ideas about relativity, quantum physics, and
    energy conservation all fit together only if Einstein’s predictions
    about clocks in a gravitational field are right."

    However, according to him, the prediction was that the clocks would move faster in stronger gravity, while the atomic clocks have proven the
    opposite.

    No, the strength of gravity does not matter. Different potentials do.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Mikko on Mon May 5 13:25:58 2025
    On 5/5/2025 11:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-05-04 18:42:33 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen said:

    Feynman thought that time ran faster in higher gravity because his light
    clock in a rocket ship ran faster the faster it accelerated. The light
    flashes bounced from end to end.

    Actual experiments have shown that the prediction was correct.

    And in the meantime in the real world - forbidden
    by your bunch of idiots "improper" GPS clocks keep
    measuring "improper" t'=t in "improper" seconds.


    One of those processes can be equated to meaning of the measurement
    of time.


    But your moronic newspeak doesn't have the
    power to change the real meaning of that.
    You're only fooling yourself.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Mon May 5 15:35:41 2025
    On 5/5/2025 3:37 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 04.05.2025 20:42, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    Feynman thought that time ran faster in higher gravity because his light
    clock in a rocket ship ran faster the faster it accelerated. The light
    flashes bounced from end to end.

    No. Clocks don't run faster "in higher gravity".
    Proper clocks are not affected by acceleration or gravitation.
    Proper clocks always run at their proper rate.

    And in the meantime in the real world - improper
    clocks with improper rate keep measuring improper
    t'=t in improper seconds. The reality is soooooo
    improper.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Mon May 5 15:52:17 2025
    On 5/5/2025 3:37 PM, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 04.05.2025 20:42, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    Feynman thought that time ran faster in higher gravity because his light
    clock in a rocket ship ran faster the faster it accelerated. The light
    flashes bounced from end to end.

    No. Clocks don't run faster "in higher gravity".
    Proper clocks are not affected by acceleration or gravitation.
    Proper clocks always run at their proper rate.

    And in the meantime in the real world - improper
    clocks with improper rate keep measuring improper
    t'=t in improper seconds.
    How unfortunate that sane people responsible
    for serious measurements are ignoring your
    (utterly ignorant) opinion of what is and what
    is not proper. That makes the reality soooooo
    improper.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 5 15:37:55 2025
    Den 04.05.2025 20:42, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    Feynman thought that time ran faster in higher gravity because his light clock in a rocket ship ran faster the faster it accelerated. The light flashes bounced from end to end.

    No. Clocks don't run faster "in higher gravity".
    Proper clocks are not affected by acceleration or gravitation.
    Proper clocks always run at their proper rate.

    And there is no such thing as a working "light clock". :-D


    Source: The Feynman Lectures on Physics Vol. II Ch. 42: Curved Space https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_42.html
    SEE FIGURE Fig. 42–17.A clock at the head of an accelerating rocket ship appears to run faster than a clock at the tail.

    Yes.
    But the acceleration (and thus the 'gravitation') is the same in
    the 'head' and 'tail' of the rocket.
    There is no "higher gravity" in the 'head' compared to the 'tail'.

    Let the proper acceleration of the rocket be a,
    let the clock in the front be C1 and the clock in the back be C2.
    Let d be the distance between the clock.
    C is the speed of light in vacuum.

    Let an inertial frame K(t,x) be instantly co-moving
    with the rocket when clock C1 and C2 show τ₁=0 and τ₂=0 respectively.
    Let the t = 0 at the same instant.

    The light that leaves C1 at the time t = 0, will hit C2
    at the time t ≈ d/c. The speed of c2 in K will then be v ≈ ad/c.
    Since the speed of C1 was 0 when the light was emitted,
    C2 will measure the light to be Doppler shifted by the factor
    D ≈ (1 + v/c) ≈ (1 + ad/c²)

    So the rate difference between the clocks is
    dτ₁/dτ₂ = (1 + ad/c²) or (dτ₁-dτ₂)/dτ₂ = ad/c².

    Note that the difference in the gravitational potential
    between C1 an C2 is ad.

    Δf/f = (difference in gravitational potential)/c² = ad/c²


    He said that time would also run faster because all processes, such as
    your heartbeat, would run faster.

    In physics "time" is what clocks show.
    There is no alternative to this definition. https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf


    Of course, now relativists say the opposite about GPS clocks:
    Less gravity = faster clocks.

    Nonsense.
    It is the difference in the gravitational potential that
    causes the apparent rate difference.

    Gravitational potential = - GM/r
    If r₁ is the radius of Earth and r₂ is the radius of GPS orbit,
    the gravitational potential difference is:
    - GM/r₂ -(-GM/r₁) = GM(1/r₁-1/r₂)

    Δf/f = (GM/c²)(1/r₁-1/r₂) Note: this is the gravitational term.

    The kinematic term must be added to get the rate of a clock
    in GPS orbit.

    The rest is gobbledegook.


    Then is it warranted to conclude from the rate of clocks that time
    itself (all processes) changes?

    No. Clearly, it is not.

    Relativists now will say that atomic clocks are better than light
    clocks, so we can judge by them.

    "Light clocks"! Good grief!


    The clock's rate is only one process, so it cannot be equated to the
    rate of time.

    This proves that if you have at least an 85 IQ and actually use it, you
    are more intelligent than Einstein and his followers.

    I think you have proved that you are not among those who have
    at least an 85 IQ.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to LaurenceClarkCrossen on Mon May 5 20:07:33 2025
    LaurenceClarkCrossen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Feynman then says, "Our ideas about relativity, quantum physics, and
    energy conservation all fit together only if Einstein's predictions
    about clocks in a gravitational field are right."

    However, according to him, the prediction was that the clocks would move faster in stronger gravity, while the atomic clocks have proven the
    opposite.

    You are attempting to mislead the kiddies again.
    Once again: the relative clock rates are not depended on 'gravity',
    in some undefined sense, but on the differences in the values
    of the gravitational potential.
    (which is a well defined concept, in the Newtonian limit)

    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)