No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist.
No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.Time is an abstraction, a comparison of rates of change.
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist. Yet, science depends on almost exclusively time as a dimension. Like in GR spacetime, claiming time as
the fourth dimension is beyond stupid. Science relies on the
mathematical construct of the flow of time, so theories can go beyond a specific observation in a given instance.
If humans CAN'T OBSERVE OR FEEL TIME, which is the actual value of the
use of time as a fundamental variable?
And this applies to every single human activity, covering all what we
do.
So, when results considering time are presented to humans, their
gullible idiocy force them to accept that such results have any meaning.
We adore and worship a dimension that we can't feel or observe, and
that's the way the civilization has evolved.
Yet, the lack of ability of humans to feel or observe time plus the mismanagement of memory has condemned mankind to forget history, so most
of the humans repeat errors without pause.
If we don't have the capacity to record, entirely, our lives, and we constantly forget or distort any kind of historical event or punctual
fact, we deserve the future that is being built around sentient robots, networked and powered with AI.
We failed as a specie, and we'll pay it dearly in the near future and
beyond.
Do you imagine the world functioning in 2030? Really?
On 4/23/2025 4:51 PM, rhertz wrote:In order to compare the rates of change an absolute universal standard
No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist.
Time as an idiot physicist imagines it - sure.
TAI, UTC, zone times and so on exist for real,
however.
No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist. Yet, science depends on almost exclusively time as a dimension. Like in GR spacetime, claiming time as
the fourth dimension is beyond stupid. Science relies on the
mathematical construct of the flow of time, so theories can go beyond a specific observation in a given instance.
If humans CAN'T OBSERVE OR FEEL TIME, which is the actual value of the
use of time as a fundamental variable?
And this applies to every single human activity, covering all what we
do.
So, when results considering time are presented to humans, their
gullible idiocy force them to accept that such results have any meaning.
We adore and worship a dimension that we can't feel or observe, and
that's the way the civilization has evolved.
Yet, the lack of ability of humans to feel or observe time plus the mismanagement of memory has condemned mankind to forget history, so most
of the humans repeat errors without pause.
If we don't have the capacity to record, entirely, our lives, and we constantly forget or distort any kind of historical event or punctual
fact, we deserve the future that is being built around sentient robots, networked and powered with AI.
We failed as a specie, and we'll pay it dearly in the near future and
beyond.
Do you imagine the world functioning in 2030? Really?
rhertz wrote:
No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist. Yet, science depends on almost
exclusively time as a dimension. Like in GR spacetime, claiming time as
the fourth dimension is beyond stupid. Science relies on the
mathematical construct of the flow of time, so theories can go beyond a
specific observation in a given instance.
If humans CAN'T OBSERVE OR FEEL TIME, which is the actual value of the
use of time as a fundamental variable?
And this applies to every single human activity, covering all what we
do.
So, when results considering time are presented to humans, their
gullible idiocy force them to accept that such results have any meaning.
We adore and worship a dimension that we can't feel or observe, and
that's the way the civilization has evolved.
Yet, the lack of ability of humans to feel or observe time plus the
mismanagement of memory has condemned mankind to forget history, so most
of the humans repeat errors without pause.
If we don't have the capacity to record, entirely, our lives, and we
constantly forget or distort any kind of historical event or punctual
fact, we deserve the future that is being built around sentient robots,
networked and powered with AI.
We failed as a specie, and we'll pay it dearly in the near future and
beyond.
Do you imagine the world functioning in 2030? Really?
Does the world...function?
Okay, Time is an illusion..
but, but...something is wrong which I haven't heard from anyone..
when exactly does the Future start?
a second from now? a minute from now? an hour from Now? Tomorrow?? Next week???
When exactly does the future start?
No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist. Yet, science depends on almost exclusively time as a dimension. Like in GR spacetime, claiming time as
the fourth dimension is beyond stupid. Science relies on the
mathematical construct of the flow of time, so theories can go beyond a specific observation in a given instance.
If humans CAN'T OBSERVE OR FEEL TIME, which is the actual value of the
use of time as a fundamental variable?
And this applies to every single human activity, covering all what we
do.
So, when results considering time are presented to humans, their
gullible idiocy force them to accept that such results have any meaning.
We adore and worship a dimension that we can't feel or observe, and
that's the way the civilization has evolved.
Yet, the lack of ability of humans to feel or observe time plus the mismanagement of memory has condemned mankind to forget history, so most
of the humans repeat errors without pause.
If we don't have the capacity to record, entirely, our lives, and we constantly forget or distort any kind of historical event or punctual
fact, we deserve the future that is being built around sentient robots, networked and powered with AI.
We failed as a specie, and we'll pay it dearly in the near future and
beyond.
Do you imagine the world functioning in 2030? Really?
What Richard Hertz can feel or not can feel is irrelevant to physics.
In physics "time" is a well defined, measurable entity.
n Wed, 23 Apr 2025 21:08:06 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:
Assume nothing else exists but space. Then say what space is.
Exactly! What is SPACE?
I've been reading an old book (1999) by Brian Green, "The Elegant
Universe" where he was preaching string theory. I'm reading about
No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.There is an excellent book I like written by a famous scholar Martin
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist. Yet, science depends on almost exclusively time as a dimension. Like in GR spacetime, claiming time as
the fourth dimension is beyond stupid. Science relies on the
mathematical construct of the flow of time, so theories can go beyond a specific observation in a given instance.
If humans CAN'T OBSERVE OR FEEL TIME, which is the actual value of the
use of time as a fundamental variable?
And this applies to every single human activity, covering all what we
do.
So, when results considering time are presented to humans, their
gullible idiocy force them to accept that such results have any meaning.
We adore and worship a dimension that we can't feel or observe, and
that's the way the civilization has evolved.
Yet, the lack of ability of humans to feel or observe time plus the mismanagement of memory has condemned mankind to forget history, so most
of the humans repeat errors without pause.
If we don't have the capacity to record, entirely, our lives, and we constantly forget or distort any kind of historical event or punctual
fact, we deserve the future that is being built around sentient robots, networked and powered with AI.
We failed as a specie, and we'll pay it dearly in the near future and
beyond.
Do you imagine the world functioning in 2030? Really?
Den 23.04.2025 16:51, skrev rhertz:
No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist. Yet, science depends on almost exclusively time as a dimension. Like in GR spacetime, claiming timeas
the fourth dimension is beyond stupid. Science relies on thea
mathematical construct of the flow of time, so theories can go beyond
specific observation in a given instance.
If humans CAN'T OBSERVE OR FEEL TIME, which is the actual value of the
use of time as a fundamental variable?
What Richard Hertz can feel or not can feel is irrelevant to physics.
In physics "time" is a well defined, measurable entity.
https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf
Just because we can measure it doesn't mean we understand it.
And when we measure it, and different observers disagree with
our measurement
might not really bring us closer to understanding it.\
On 4/24/2025 9:17 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
rhertz wrote:
No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist. Yet, science depends on almost
exclusively time as a dimension. Like in GR spacetime, claiming time as
the fourth dimension is beyond stupid. Science relies on the
mathematical construct of the flow of time, so theories can go beyond a
specific observation in a given instance.
If humans CAN'T OBSERVE OR FEEL TIME, which is the actual value of the
use of time as a fundamental variable?
And this applies to every single human activity, covering all what we
do.
So, when results considering time are presented to humans, their
gullible idiocy force them to accept that such results have any meaning. >>
We adore and worship a dimension that we can't feel or observe, and
that's the way the civilization has evolved.
Yet, the lack of ability of humans to feel or observe time plus the
mismanagement of memory has condemned mankind to forget history, so most >> of the humans repeat errors without pause.
If we don't have the capacity to record, entirely, our lives, and we
constantly forget or distort any kind of historical event or punctual
fact, we deserve the future that is being built around sentient robots,
networked and powered with AI.
We failed as a specie, and we'll pay it dearly in the near future and
beyond.
Do you imagine the world functioning in 2030? Really?
Does the world...function?
Okay, Time is an illusion..
but, but...something is wrong which I haven't heard from anyone..
when exactly does the Future start?
a second from now? a minute from now? an hour from Now? Tomorrow?? Next week???
When exactly does the future start?
Exactly now.
On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 8:21:30 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
In physics "time" is a well defined, measurable entity.
https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf
Just because we can measure it doesn't mean we understand it.
And when we measure it, and different observers disagree with
our measurement, and relativity "explains" the disagreement,
might not really bring us closer to understanding it.
I attended a lecture many years ago where it was explained that
each of the four dimensions were really identical and we were
always moving at the speed of light - along one of them. That
one was our time dimension. That seemed to be very satisfying
at the time. This would mean that there is a basic symmetry
between time and space.
More recently, some cracks in that view have appeared due to
quantum mechanics. Vaccaro has published a couple of papers
about "Quantum asymmetry between time and space," (2016)
arXiv:1502.04012.
One idea is that time reversal would be a tough problem for
causality.
Den 25.04.2025 00:13, skrev gharnagel:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 8:21:30 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
In physics "time" is a well defined, measurable entity.
https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf
Just because we can measure it doesn't mean we understand it.
You can't 'understand' why Nature works as she does.
A theory of physics is a mathematical model of an aspect of Nature.
It doesn't 'explain' anything.
The only test of a mathematical consistent theory
is if it can correctly predict what will be measured in experiments.
Relativity (SR/GR) does obviously not "explain" anything.
But SR/GR will correctly predict what the different observers
will measure in experiments.
Den 25.04.2025 00:13, skrev gharnagel:
On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 8:21:30 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
In physics "time" is a well defined, measurable entity.
https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf
Just because we can measure it doesn't mean we understand it.
You can't 'understand' why Nature works as she does.
A theory of physics is a mathematical model of an aspect of Nature.
It doesn't 'explain' anything.
The only test of a mathematical consistent theory is if it can
correctly predict what will be measured in experiments.
It takes but one wrong prediction to falsify a theory.
And when we measure it, and different observers disagree with
our measurement, and relativity "explains" the disagreement,
might not really bring us closer to understanding it.
Relativity (SR/GR) does obviously not "explain" anything.
But SR/GR will correctly predict what the different observers
will measure in experiments.
If you think it is self-contradictory that different observers
have different measurements of the observed object's properties,
consider this:
The observer's state of motion can not affect the observed object.
But the observer's state of motion can affect the observer's
measurements of the observed object's properties.
I attended a lecture many years ago where it was explained that
each of the four dimensions were really identical and we were
always moving at the speed of light - along one of them. That
one was our time dimension. That seemed to be very satisfying
at the time. This would mean that there is a basic symmetry
between time and space.
This is nonsense.
Let "the moving object" be a clock.
The metric in flat spacetime can be written:
dτ² = dt² - (dx² + dy² + dz²)/c² (1)
where τ is what the clock shows, c is the speed of light
and t,x,y,z are the coordinates of an inertial frame of reference.
from (1) we have:
(dτ/dt)² = (1 - ((dx/dt)²+(dy/dt)²+(dz/dt)²)/c²) = (1−v²/c²) (2)
where v = √((dx/dt)²+(dy/dt)²+(dz/dt)²) is the magnitude of
the moving object's velocity.
from (2) we have:
dt/dτ = 1/√(1 − v²/c²) = γ
Let the velocity of the clock be:
v₁ = dx/dt component along x-axis
v₂ = dy/dt component along y-axis
v₃ = dz/dt component along z-axis
The components of the four-velocity will be:
U₀ = dt/dτ = γ component along the time axis
U₁ = dx/dτ = (dx/dt)⋅(dt/dτ) = γ⋅v₁ component along the x-axis
U₂ = dy/dτ = (dy/dt)⋅(dt/dτ) = γ⋅v₂ component along the y-axis
U₃ = dx/dτ = (dz/dt)⋅(dt/dτ) = γ⋅v₃ component along the z-axis
If v = 0, the object is stationary and γ = 1.
U₀ = 1, U₁ = 0, U₂ = 0, U₃ = 0
So the "rate of the clock along the time axis" is 1.
That does _not_ mean that the clock is moving at the speed
of light along the time axis (what a weird idea ).
It simply means that the clock is ticking at its normal
rate, one time unit per time unit.
The four "dimensions" are _not_ identical, the temporal "dimension"
is fundamentally different from the spatial "dimensions".
It can be shown that the magnitude of th four-velocity is invariant:
U[²] = - U₀² + U₁² + U₂² + U₃² = -1
More recently, some cracks in that view have appeared due to
quantum mechanics. Vaccaro has published a couple of papers
about "Quantum asymmetry between time and space," (2016)
arXiv:1502.04012.
One idea is that time reversal would be a tough problem for
causality.
We don't understand why
the principles exist -- at present. We may someday, but those
will be based on some other measurements that we don't understand
why nature works that way.
gharnagel wrote:
We don't understand why the principles exist -- at present.
We may someday, but those will be based on some other
measurements that we don't understand why nature works that
way.
Who is "We"????
On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 5:39:37 +0000, The Starmaker wrote:
gharnagel wrote:
We don't understand why the principles exist -- at present.
We may someday, but those will be based on some other
measurements that we don't understand why nature works that
way.
Who is "We"????
I was speaking of the human race. Are you in or out?
On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 8:21:30 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
Den 23.04.2025 16:51, skrev rhertz:
as
No humans have been able to observe time or register the pass of time.
Time is an illusion, it doesn't exist. Yet, science depends on almost
exclusively time as a dimension. Like in GR spacetime, claiming time
the fourth dimension is beyond stupid. Science relies on thea
mathematical construct of the flow of time, so theories can go beyond
specific observation in a given instance.
If humans CAN'T OBSERVE OR FEEL TIME, which is the actual value of the
use of time as a fundamental variable?
What Richard Hertz can feel or not can feel is irrelevant to physics.
In physics "time" is a well defined, measurable entity.
https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf
Just because we can measure it doesn't mean we understand it.
And when we measure it, and different observers disagree with
our measurement, and relativity "explains" the disagreement,
might not really bring us closer to understanding it.
I attended a lecture many years ago where it was explained that
each of the four dimensions were really identical and we were
always moving at the speed of light - along one of them. That
one was our time dimension. That seemed to be very satisfying
at the time. This would mean that there is a basic symmetry
between time and space.
More recently, some cracks in that view have appeared due to
quantum mechanics. Vaccaro has published a couple of papers
about "Quantum asymmetry between time and space," (2016)
arXiv:1502.04012.
One idea is that time reversal would be a tough problem for
causality.
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 2:05:44 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:
Did he (Green) explain the stuff clearly enough for the "interested
amateurs? Like, for instance, how Sagan did.
Depends on how interested the amateur is. When he gets into Calabi-Yao geometry he shows enough to let one know that here there be dragons.
Humans can't observe time. Even less, the pass of time.
Science is an illusion.
This is the topic of this thread but some people didn't get it AT ALL.
As a dimension, time is a human construct, an artificial one, and
probably ill defined.
You can't OBSERVE time as you can observer REAL SPATIAL DIMENSIONS.
If you place yourself in any given point (3D defined), you CAN
OBSERVE ANY DIMENSION in its depth, if you mark the axis of
observation with proper markers, equally spaced, until your sight
can't see any deeper.
You CAN'T OBSERVE TIME, because your brain CAN'T HOLD any account of
this abstraction.
If you say you could, such temporal point didn't exist
one nanosecond after it.
You CAN'T OBSERVE THE PASS OF TIME. Your human brain IS UNABLE to
register on such flow of this "dimension", because you DON'T
POSSESS THE ABILITY TO REGISTER EVENTS THAT EXIST DURING THE FLOW
OF TIME. Your brain ISN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH AND HAVE NOT THE FOCUS
TO REGISTER SUCH FLOW, which is given by the changes in objects
in the surrounding environment as time flows. You can't even
register your own biological markers, like your heartbeat,
and gain consciousness about how time flows when you try to
register it.
This is one of the reasons because of which SPACETIME IS PURE CRAP.
Without even moving spatially, you would find (CONSTANTLY) changing 4D positions.
When I wrote that SCIENCE IS AN ILLUSION, it was not a random concept.
Everything presented by science to you, IN ANY FORM AND IN ANY FIELD,
is in THE PAST.
So, you have to believe,
not to register. That's why science is an illusion, and
the proofs vanish in the past. THERE IS NOT NOW. GOT IT?
On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 23:45:21 +0000, rhertz wrote:
Humans can't observe time. Even less, the pass of time.
Completely false. The word "observe" means much more than to SEE.
I repeat:
Humans have no abilities to OBSERVE the pass of time (or its flow, which
is the same.
In the case of spatial dimensions (xyz), we have such sensorial
capabilities.
But in the case of TIME, which is a human construct, our brain CAN'T
REGISTER TIME
I repeat:
Humans have no abilities to OBSERVE the pass of time (or its flow, which
is the same.
In the case of spatial dimensions (xyz), we have such sensorial
capabilities.
But in the case of TIME, which is a human construct, our brain CAN'T
REGISTER TIME (at any given instance)
NOR IT CAN OBSERVE HOW TIME FLOWS,
even looking themselves in a mirror.
The cognitive capabilities to register time that we might have
are ILLUSIONS that rapidly FADE AWAY.
Our brain can't process such information and, even less, REGISTER
(through observations) how time flows within and around us, even
when we chose a TICK large enough (say, 1 second lapse per obser-
vation). We don't understand what HAPPENS BECAUSE EVERY CHANGE
AROUND US is in the past, and we CAN'T PROCESS THE THREADS OF
PAST OBSERVATIONS as it if was a movie played in reverse,
choosing intervals at will.
So, time IS AN ILLUSION, as well as any result that we might
observe in a graph f(t). WE CAN'T REPRODUCE WHAT THE GRAPHIC
CONTAINS,
SO WE CHOOSE TO BELIEVE IT'S TRUE.
Nobody, here or anywhere, can contradict THIS FACT.
On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 16:24:56 +0000, rhertz wrote:
NOR IT CAN OBSERVE HOW TIME FLOWS,
even looking themselves in a mirror.
Mirrors have nothing to do with it. All animals use their brains to
remember the past. Some humans forget that.
Using on-the-shelf electronics, you can have AN IDEA about the flow of
time.
Science is an illusion, so you are forced to believe (films,
oscilloscopes, graph from experiments, etc.).
But how do you know that such past events WERE REAL?
[boring irrelevant repetition deleted]
So, WE CAN'T FEEL TIME NOR WE CAN OBSERVE THE FLOW OF TIME. No living
specie can.
Science is an illusion,
so you are forced to believe (films, oscilloscopes, graph from
experiments, etc.).
But how do you know that such past events WERE REAL?
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 715 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 32:48:27 |
| Calls: | 12,109 |
| Files: | 15,006 |
| Messages: | 6,518,309 |