• Re: Fun with ChatGPT: Relativity is a lucky pseudoscience that fails at

    From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 25 14:21:59 2025
    Den 25.01.2025 05:46, skrev rhertz:
    Curiously, ChatGPT is trained to give a lot of excuses for the fact that relativity (any) breaks down at depths lower than 10^-09 m (1 nm), but
    it's also trained to validate GR up to the limit of the visible universe (about 13.5 bly classical radius or 46 bly relativistic radius).

    Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) is based on SR, not NM.
    SR doesn't break down at depths lower than 10^-09 m


    It represents a domain of applicability with a ratio of upper and lower limits of 5 x 10^35. Cosmologists apply time dilation formulae to
    galaxies 10 bly far away, which are captured as a few pixels with Hubble Ultra Deep Field resolution, which takes almost 11 days to collect
    photons for a 16 pixels pic, and still use it to gather information
    about speed of recession, speculate about shape, etc.

    You have claimed that we can do without relativity (SR and GR)
    because Newtonian mechanics can correctly predict everything
    that SR/GR can predict.
    (If the predictions are different, you claim NM is right.)


    Can NM "explain" any of the phenomena listed below?

    Do you think it is a weakness of SR that it can't "explain"
    these phenomena?


    But not a single relativist can explain the behavior of two atoms (like
    Ag) that act as emitter and receiver of photons in the visible range, separated by a distance of 1 mm, for example.

    Since all physicists accept SR and GR as valid theories, you are
    claiming that no physicist can "explain" the above.
    That's wrong.
    This is about interaction photon - electron,
    and can be "explained" by QED. (Based on SR, not NM)
    (That doesn't necessarily mean that someone has done it, though.)


    Like the phenomenon of sonoluminescence, in which atoms in water are
    excited by sound waves and generate blobs of high luminescence and
    extreme temperature, within a glass container.

    The physics behind how sound waves are transformed into light in the blue-violet part of the spectrum is not understood, even when it was discovered almost 90 years ago.


    Not to mention if TIME, as known in the macroworld, apply equally in the quantum world. Or what the speed of light really is in the atomic and subatomic realm.

    Remember that in current physics, "photon" is defined in QED.
    Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) is based on SR.
    So TIME is the same in the quantum world as in SR.
    And the speed of light is invariant c in the atomic realm.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 26 10:59:52 2025
    W dniu 26.01.2025 o 10:41, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:

    Whenever you say "relativists" you could have said "physicist" because
    all (or the overwhelming majority of) physicists are accepting SR and GR

    No, poor halfbrain, "physicists" and "relativists"
    are not quite the same - sure, physicists are
    following The Shit, but some other halfbrains do
    as well, including yourself.

    as the only valid theories within their domain, and are considering QED
    as the best experimentally confirmed theory of physics.

    So your only argument is that all physicists are members
    of a MAFFIA, and profit from it.

    Of course, it's no way true! Physicists are all
    living saints only interested in serving the
    society! No profit, nonononononono!!!!!

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  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 26 10:41:46 2025
    Den 26.01.2025 00:37, skrev rhertz:
    On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 13:21:59 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    Remember that in current physics, "photon" is defined in QED.
    Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) is based on SR.
    So TIME is the same in the quantum world as in SR.
    And the speed of light is invariant c in the atomic realm.


    Explanations about QED being based on SR have the same value as
    explanations about Sagnac effect based on SR, as desperate relativists
    try to find alternate explanations of a simple non-relativistic
    phenomenon.

    Your comment about that QED is based on SR because Dirac's equation of
    for electrons incorporates SR at velocities near c is far from true.
    Dirac QF theory (1928) came after Heisenberg (1925) matrix QM and Schrödinger (1926) wave QM. Both theories, HIGHLY relevant even today,
    ARE NOT RELATIVISTIC AT ALL.

    Previous efforts (1913-1925) to find theories to explain the behavior of
    H atoms were based in Newtonian celestial mechanics, with electrons performing elliptic orbits around the nucleus (hence the universal
    symbol of the atom). ALL the physicists of that period (Bohr,
    Sommerfeld, Born, etc.) were dedicated to enhance the original 1913
    Bohr's model. In 1925, Max Born finished his book about this theory
    (250+ pages), just to throw it away in the same year when the young and disturbed Heisenberg came with his Matrix Mechanics theory, under the guidance of Bohr (even when he was a Born's protégée). NO RELATIVITY
    HERE.

    In 1926, and out of the blue, came Schrödinger with his NON RELATIVISTIC wave theory, which captured the imagination of most physicists, Dirac included (due to the poor formation of most of them with matrix theory).
    Born changed the interpretation of the distribution of energy amplitudes
    for orbital electrons from DETERMINISTIC to PROBABILISTIC, which defined
    QM SINCE THEN as a statistical theory (opening the door to a lot of
    weird results).

    Dirac was triggered by many deficiencies of QM, in particular the impossibility to explain the creation and absorption of photons by
    atoms, and started to work in an extension of Schrödinger equation TO INCLUDE SPECIAL RELATIVITY, for uses at electron speeds close to c,
    which he obtained in 1928. After that achievement, Dirac started to
    develop a theory based on fields, not waves (QFT), in which photons
    appeared and disappeared in his fields, without the need of atoms (which
    led to the development of the Cassimir effect).

    Dirac equation for electrons was so complex that only could be used in H atoms. His QFT was also so complex that it was buried in history until
    WWII finished and Feynman, Schwinger, and Shinichirō created the basis
    of QED (1947).

    QED is a theory that provided very few practical results, because it was plagued by inconsistencies and contradictions (like infinities, the need
    of "virtual photons" that didn't verify Planck's E=hf, lack of domains
    of applicability, etc.). Even when Feyman's diagrams provided a graphic
    means for calculations of interactions between charged particles and
    photons, QED was widely known as the "SHUT UP AND CALCULATE" theory. The enormous amount of defects of QED was buried by FORGED/FORCED results
    thanks to the CRAP of virtual photons (what?). They didn't exist at all,
    but being taken as "carrier forces", allowed some crappy explanations
    about forces between electrons and nuclei and within atoms nuclei.

    The myriad of short lived particles that started to emerge from
    accelerators found in QED the necessary ground TO INVENT INTERACTIONS.
    The final result, after 15 years, was the "unproven existence" of
    hundred of quasi-particles, which made almost EVERYONE be crazy about
    how to put order in such scenario.

    By 1962, entered Gell-Man in the scenario of elementary particles. He
    started to clean up the garbage of hundred of pseudo-particles, and
    began to design the framework of the STANDARD MODEL OF ELEMENTARY
    PARTICLES, which has resisted the reviews of the last 60 years. QED?
    R.I.P.

    For EVERY QED affirmation about WHATEVER, there are several NON-QED, NON RELATIVISTIC THEORIES that bring the same result. Yet, QED is hailed by relativists AS THE MOST PRECISE THEORY OF PHYSICS THAT EVER EXISTED.


    Not going to continue with this post, because it doesn't worth it.

    I only post here a link ABOUT THE VALUE OF RESULTS OF QED. There are
    HUNDRED of them:


    Does QED have any real-world applications?

    https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/does-qed-have-any-real-world- applications.559356/

    Relativists are willing to KILL to impose relativity as the only valid theory.

    PHYSICS DOESN'T WORK VERY WELL AT QUANTUM LEVEL. THE AMOUNT OF INCONSISTENCIES, CONTRADICTIONS AND PLAIN LIES IS OVERWHELMING. But they
    own publishing houses, media, academia and gov.

    Whenever you say "relativists" you could have said "physicist" because
    all (or the overwhelming majority of) physicists are accepting SR and GR
    as the only valid theories within their domain, and are considering QED
    as the best experimentally confirmed theory of physics.

    So your only argument is that all physicists are members
    of a MAFFIA, and profit from it. This is because the different
    results are COOKED with the help of statistical manipulations,
    fraud, cooking and peer complicity.

    We leave it at that. :-D

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Mon Jan 27 10:59:46 2025
    Paul.B.Andersen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Den 26.01.2025 00:37, skrev rhertz:
    On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 13:21:59 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    Remember that in current physics, "photon" is defined in QED.
    Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) is based on SR.
    So TIME is the same in the quantum world as in SR.
    And the speed of light is invariant c in the atomic realm.


    Explanations about QED being based on SR have the same value as explanations about Sagnac effect based on SR, as desperate relativists
    try to find alternate explanations of a simple non-relativistic
    phenomenon.

    Your comment about that QED is based on SR because Dirac's equation of
    for electrons incorporates SR at velocities near c is far from true.
    Dirac QF theory (1928) came after Heisenberg (1925) matrix QM and Schr�dinger (1926) wave QM. Both theories, HIGHLY relevant even today,
    ARE NOT RELATIVISTIC AT ALL.

    Previous efforts (1913-1925) to find theories to explain the behavior of
    H atoms were based in Newtonian celestial mechanics, with electrons performing elliptic orbits around the nucleus (hence the universal
    symbol of the atom). ALL the physicists of that period (Bohr,
    Sommerfeld, Born, etc.) were dedicated to enhance the original 1913
    Bohr's model. In 1925, Max Born finished his book about this theory
    (250+ pages), just to throw it away in the same year when the young and disturbed Heisenberg came with his Matrix Mechanics theory, under the guidance of Bohr (even when he was a Born's prot�g�e). NO RELATIVITY
    HERE.

    In 1926, and out of the blue, came Schr�dinger with his NON RELATIVISTIC wave theory, which captured the imagination of most physicists, Dirac included (due to the poor formation of most of them with matrix theory). Born changed the interpretation of the distribution of energy amplitudes for orbital electrons from DETERMINISTIC to PROBABILISTIC, which defined
    QM SINCE THEN as a statistical theory (opening the door to a lot of
    weird results).

    Dirac was triggered by many deficiencies of QM, in particular the impossibility to explain the creation and absorption of photons by
    atoms, and started to work in an extension of Schr�dinger equation TO INCLUDE SPECIAL RELATIVITY, for uses at electron speeds close to c,
    which he obtained in 1928. After that achievement, Dirac started to
    develop a theory based on fields, not waves (QFT), in which photons appeared and disappeared in his fields, without the need of atoms (which led to the development of the Cassimir effect).

    Dirac equation for electrons was so complex that only could be used in H atoms. His QFT was also so complex that it was buried in history until
    WWII finished and Feynman, Schwinger, and Shinichir? created the basis
    of QED (1947).

    QED is a theory that provided very few practical results, because it was plagued by inconsistencies and contradictions (like infinities, the need
    of "virtual photons" that didn't verify Planck's E=hf, lack of domains
    of applicability, etc.). Even when Feyman's diagrams provided a graphic means for calculations of interactions between charged particles and photons, QED was widely known as the "SHUT UP AND CALCULATE" theory. The enormous amount of defects of QED was buried by FORGED/FORCED results thanks to the CRAP of virtual photons (what?). They didn't exist at all, but being taken as "carrier forces", allowed some crappy explanations
    about forces between electrons and nuclei and within atoms nuclei.

    The myriad of short lived particles that started to emerge from accelerators found in QED the necessary ground TO INVENT INTERACTIONS.
    The final result, after 15 years, was the "unproven existence" of
    hundred of quasi-particles, which made almost EVERYONE be crazy about
    how to put order in such scenario.

    By 1962, entered Gell-Man in the scenario of elementary particles. He started to clean up the garbage of hundred of pseudo-particles, and
    began to design the framework of the STANDARD MODEL OF ELEMENTARY PARTICLES, which has resisted the reviews of the last 60 years. QED?
    R.I.P.

    For EVERY QED affirmation about WHATEVER, there are several NON-QED, NON RELATIVISTIC THEORIES that bring the same result. Yet, QED is hailed by relativists AS THE MOST PRECISE THEORY OF PHYSICS THAT EVER EXISTED.


    Not going to continue with this post, because it doesn't worth it.

    I only post here a link ABOUT THE VALUE OF RESULTS OF QED. There are HUNDRED of them:


    Does QED have any real-world applications?

    https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/does-qed-have-any-real-world- applications.559356/

    Relativists are willing to KILL to impose relativity as the only valid theory.

    PHYSICS DOESN'T WORK VERY WELL AT QUANTUM LEVEL. THE AMOUNT OF INCONSISTENCIES, CONTRADICTIONS AND PLAIN LIES IS OVERWHELMING. But they own publishing houses, media, academia and gov.

    Whenever you say "relativists" you could have said "physicist" because
    all (or the overwhelming majority of) physicists are accepting SR and GR
    as the only valid theories within their domain, and are considering QED
    as the best experimentally confirmed theory of physics.

    So your only argument is that all physicists are members
    of a MAFFIA, and profit from it. This is because the different
    results are COOKED with the help of statistical manipulations,
    fraud, cooking and peer complicity.

    We leave it at that. :-D

    Unfortunately the cooking skills are not quite perfect.
    After a great many years they still have not succeeded
    in cooking the muon g-factor into agreement.

    Oh, wait, that's of course only because there are competing MAFFIAs,
    each of them SEEKING for FALSE EXCUSES for getting GRANT MONEY !!!,

    Jan

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  • From Bertietaylor@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 28 15:15:08 2025
    Ask chat to invent a new rowing method

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to rhertz on Tue Jan 28 22:21:07 2025
    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:

    I just tried DeepSeek with the same question that I did to ChatGPT:

    QUESTION: Does relativity breaks down at atomic level?

    Even when Deepseek is fed with information available through Internet,
    the differences with ChatGPT were shocking.

    Regarding Special Relativity, DeepSeek agreed that non-relativistic
    quantum mechanics is MUCH MORE RELEVANT than the Dirac's model.
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use
    than Dirac's.

    Correct, to lowest order.

    Quantum effects are much more relevant than relativistic effects and,
    for this, SR is not relevant at quantum level in the majority of cases.

    Correct again,
    relativity enters only when you need to consider the fine-structure.
    (and hyperfine structure)
    Spin can be handled by Pauli. (to lowest order)
    You don't solve it all in one go from first principles.
    (corrections in orders of v/c or \alpha are done successively)

    According to DeepSeek, SR is useful only with heavier atoms due to the "allegations" that low level electrons orbit at speed closer to c in
    heavier atoms (gold, lead,..). Hyperfine states are more accurate
    defined using Dirac instead of Schrodinger QM.

    Correct again. No allegiations about it.

    When I questioned it how physics managed "statistical orbitals" to apply relativity, being that in QM electrons don't have a neat, well-defined orbitals and that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle collided with the pseudo-classic SR,
    DeepSeek crashed and asked me to try again later, as the servers were
    busy.

    Not surprising.

    Regarding GR, it started to mumble shit about quantum spacetime and
    Planck's lengths and times, to later accept that IT'S BELIEVED that GR
    has to have a role in atom's behavior, but immediately it added that
    such area is under heavy study by several researches, and that such
    influence of GR on atom's behavior IS FAR FROM BEING KNOWN BY NOW.

    Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

    Also, added that efforts to incorporate quantum spacetime in atomic
    theory have been made in the last decades without results (string
    theory, quantum loop gravity, etc.). Additionally, added that a
    completely new theory is needed, but there are no indications that
    current proposals are going to succeed.

    Correct again.

    I left the chat with the impression that DeepSeek is much less BIASED
    about the influence of relativity in the quantum world than ChatGPT
    (Altman) engine.

    It's a refreshing feeling to learn that Chinese are MUCH LESS CRAZY
    about relativity than Western science, even when AI engines access to
    the same reservoir of information.

    Indeed, it is far more clever about it than you are.

    I noticed that DeepSeek don't glorify Einstein and relativity, but don't
    deny it as a theory.

    Good for it. The atom was Bohr's at first, and later Schroedinger's.
    And anyway, this whole concept of 'glorificating' in science
    exists mostly in your perverted mental hang-ups.

    Only uses examples of its applications IN A
    RATIONAL WAY. Relativity seems to be a marginal theory for Chinese,
    which only have rational applications on the limits of time and space,
    when velocities are close to c.

    I only maintained a 5 minutes session, but it's promising.

    Indeed, for an AI,

    Jan

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  • From Bertietaylor@21:1/5 to Bertietaylor on Wed Jan 29 01:51:13 2025
    On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 15:15:08 +0000, Bertietaylor wrote:

    Ask chat to invent a new rowing method

    Or DeepSeek.

    Also ask what new technology may be possible with Arindam's new physics


    Let's see how smart AI is.

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  • From Bertietaylor@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 29 02:16:06 2025
    Feed DeepSeek with Arindam's essay on the cause of gravity and get its
    opinion.
    Looks like the Chinese have internalised Arindam's physics without acknowledgment.
    They will run rings around the stupid Americans stuck with e=mcc.

    Woof woof woof woof woof woof woof

    Bertietaylor

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  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 29 08:36:28 2025
    Am Dienstag000028, 28.01.2025 um 18:42 schrieb rhertz:
    I just tried DeepSeek with the same question that I did to ChatGPT:

    QUESTION: Does relativity breaks down at atomic level?

    Even when Deepseek is fed with information available through Internet,
    the differences with ChatGPT were shocking.




    Regarding Special Relativity, DeepSeek agreed that non-relativistic
    quantum mechanics is MUCH MORE RELEVANT than the Dirac's model.
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use
    than Dirac's.

    Quantum effects are much more relevant than relativistic effects and,
    for this, SR is not relevant at quantum level in the majority of cases. According to DeepSeek, SR is useful only with heavier atoms due to the "allegations" that low level electrons orbit at speed closer to c in
    heavier atoms (gold, lead,..). Hyperfine states are more accurate
    defined using Dirac instead of Schrodinger QM.

    When I questioned it how physics managed "statistical orbitals" to apply relativity, being that in QM electrons don't have a neat, well-defined orbitals and that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle collided with the pseudo-classic SR,
    DeepSeek crashed and asked me to try again later, as the servers were
    busy.



    Regarding GR, it started to mumble shit about quantum spacetime and
    Planck's lengths and times, to later accept that IT'S BELIEVED that GR
    has to have a role in atom's behavior, but immediately it added that
    such area is under heavy study by several researches, and that such
    influence of GR on atom's behavior IS FAR FROM BEING KNOWN BY NOW.

    Also, added that efforts to incorporate quantum spacetime in atomic
    theory have been made in the last decades without results (string
    theory, quantum loop gravity, etc.). Additionally, added that a
    completely new theory is needed, but there are no indications that
    current proposals are going to succeed.


    Well, how about my own idea?

    It isn't that new anymore, but aims to fill that gap and base particles
    on spacetime of GR.

    The concept is therefore called 'stractured spacetime', where 'timelike
    stable patterns' are, what we call 'matter'.


    See my 'book' about this idea:

    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing

    Relativistic effects are in this concept not related to velocity but to acceleration.

    IOW: you could create matter out of nothing, by acceleration of spacetime.

    This should be observable in some cases as 'Growing Earth' or 'magic dust'.

    Also the opposite could be possible, where matter disapears without a trace.

    ...


    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 29 14:54:14 2025
    Le 29/01/2025 à 08:36, Thomas Heger a écrit :
    Am Dienstag000028, 28.01.2025 um 18:42 schrieb rhertz:
    I just tried DeepSeek with the same question that I did to ChatGPT:

    QUESTION: Does relativity breaks down at atomic level?

    Even when Deepseek is fed with information available through Internet,
    the differences with ChatGPT were shocking.




    Regarding Special Relativity, DeepSeek agreed that non-relativistic
    quantum mechanics is MUCH MORE RELEVANT than the Dirac's model.
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use
    than Dirac's.

    Quantum effects are much more relevant than relativistic effects and,
    for this, SR is not relevant at quantum level in the majority of cases.
    According to DeepSeek, SR is useful only with heavier atoms due to the
    "allegations" that low level electrons orbit at speed closer to c in
    heavier atoms (gold, lead,..). Hyperfine states are more accurate
    defined using Dirac instead of Schrodinger QM.

    When I questioned it how physics managed "statistical orbitals" to apply
    relativity, being that in QM electrons don't have a neat, well-defined
    orbitals and that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle collided with the
    pseudo-classic SR,
    DeepSeek crashed and asked me to try again later, as the servers were
    busy.



    Regarding GR, it started to mumble shit about quantum spacetime and
    Planck's lengths and times, to later accept that IT'S BELIEVED that GR
    has to have a role in atom's behavior, but immediately it added that
    such area is under heavy study by several researches, and that such
    influence of GR on atom's behavior IS FAR FROM BEING KNOWN BY NOW.

    Also, added that efforts to incorporate quantum spacetime in atomic
    theory have been made in the last decades without results (string
    theory, quantum loop gravity, etc.). Additionally, added that a
    completely new theory is needed, but there are no indications that
    current proposals are going to succeed.


    Well, how about my own idea?

    No one give a sh*t.

    See my 'book' about this idea:


    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing

    It's a bunch of nonsensical bullsh*t.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bertietaylor@21:1/5 to Thomas Heger on Wed Jan 29 16:06:52 2025
    On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 7:36:28 +0000, Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am Dienstag000028, 28.01.2025 um 18:42 schrieb rhertz:
    I just tried DeepSeek with the same question that I did to ChatGPT:

    QUESTION: Does relativity breaks down at atomic level?

    Even when Deepseek is fed with information available through Internet,
    the differences with ChatGPT were shocking.




    Regarding Special Relativity, DeepSeek agreed that non-relativistic
    quantum mechanics is MUCH MORE RELEVANT than the Dirac's model.
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use
    than Dirac's.

    Quantum effects are much more relevant than relativistic effects and,
    for this, SR is not relevant at quantum level in the majority of cases.
    According to DeepSeek, SR is useful only with heavier atoms due to the
    "allegations" that low level electrons orbit at speed closer to c in
    heavier atoms (gold, lead,..). Hyperfine states are more accurate
    defined using Dirac instead of Schrodinger QM.

    When I questioned it how physics managed "statistical orbitals" to apply
    relativity, being that in QM electrons don't have a neat, well-defined
    orbitals and that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle collided with the
    pseudo-classic SR,
    DeepSeek crashed and asked me to try again later, as the servers were
    busy.



    Regarding GR, it started to mumble shit about quantum spacetime and
    Planck's lengths and times, to later accept that IT'S BELIEVED that GR
    has to have a role in atom's behavior, but immediately it added that
    such area is under heavy study by several researches, and that such
    influence of GR on atom's behavior IS FAR FROM BEING KNOWN BY NOW.

    Also, added that efforts to incorporate quantum spacetime in atomic
    theory have been made in the last decades without results (string
    theory, quantum loop gravity, etc.). Additionally, added that a
    completely new theory is needed, but there are no indications that
    current proposals are going to succeed.


    Well, how about my own idea?

    It isn't that new anymore, but aims to fill that gap and base particles
    on spacetime of GR.

    Just forget the depravity of all relativity.

    The concept is therefore called 'stractured spacetime', where 'timelike stable patterns' are, what we call 'matter'.

    Matter is charge - electrons orbiting protons or getting stuck to
    protons.


    See my 'book' about this idea:

    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing

    Relativistic effects are in this concept not related to velocity but to acceleration.

    Relativistic effects occur from Earth's movement in space.

    IOW: you could create matter out of nothing, by acceleration of
    spacetime.

    Protons and electrons come from aether and vanish into aether. The most striking demonstration is growth from life internal forces; cell
    splitting into two.

    This should be observable in some cases as 'Growing Earth' or 'magic
    dust'.

    See any cell split. how matter appears.
    We come from aether. We return to aether.

    Also the opposite could be possible, where matter disapears without a
    trace.

    ...


    TH

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 29 17:55:39 2025
    W dniu 29.01.2025 o 15:54, Python pisze:
    Le 29/01/2025 à 08:36, Thomas Heger a écrit :
    Am Dienstag000028, 28.01.2025 um 18:42 schrieb rhertz:
    I just tried DeepSeek with the same question that I did to ChatGPT:

    QUESTION: Does relativity breaks down at atomic level?

    Even when Deepseek is fed with information available through Internet,
    the differences with ChatGPT were shocking.




    Regarding Special Relativity, DeepSeek agreed that non-relativistic
    quantum mechanics is MUCH MORE RELEVANT than the Dirac's model.
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use >>> than Dirac's.

    Quantum effects are much more relevant than relativistic effects and,
    for this, SR is not relevant at quantum level in the majority of cases.
    According to DeepSeek, SR is useful only with heavier atoms due to the
    "allegations" that low level electrons orbit at speed closer to c in
    heavier atoms (gold, lead,..). Hyperfine states are more accurate
    defined using Dirac instead of Schrodinger QM.

    When I questioned it how physics managed "statistical orbitals" to apply >>> relativity, being that in QM electrons don't have a neat, well-defined
    orbitals and that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle collided with the
    pseudo-classic SR,
    DeepSeek crashed and asked me to try again later, as the servers were
    busy.



    Regarding GR, it started to mumble shit about quantum spacetime and
    Planck's lengths and times, to later accept that IT'S BELIEVED that GR
    has to have a role in atom's behavior, but immediately it added that
    such area is under heavy study by several researches, and that such
    influence of GR on atom's behavior IS FAR FROM BEING KNOWN BY NOW.

    Also, added that efforts to incorporate quantum spacetime in atomic
    theory have been made in the last decades without results (string
    theory, quantum loop gravity, etc.). Additionally, added that a
    completely new theory is needed, but there are no indications that
    current proposals are going to succeed.


    Well, how about my own idea?

    No one give a sh*t.

    See my 'book' about this idea:


    https://docs.google.com/presentation/
    d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing

    It's a bunch of nonsensical bullsh*t.

    But whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read (even if not
    clearly enough for you, poor stinker).






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  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 30 07:59:34 2025
    Am Mittwoch000029, 29.01.2025 um 17:06 schrieb Bertietaylor:


    Regarding GR, it started to mumble shit about quantum spacetime and
    Planck's lengths and times, to later accept that IT'S BELIEVED that GR
    has to have a role in atom's behavior, but immediately it added that
    such area is under heavy study by several researches, and that such
    influence of GR on atom's behavior IS FAR FROM BEING KNOWN BY NOW.

    Also, added that efforts to incorporate quantum spacetime in atomic
    theory have been made in the last decades without results (string
    theory, quantum loop gravity, etc.). Additionally, added that a
    completely new theory is needed, but there are no indications that
    current proposals are going to succeed.


    Well, how about my own idea?

    It isn't that new anymore, but aims to fill that gap and base particles
    on spacetime of GR.

    Just forget the depravity of all relativity.

    The concept is therefore called 'stractured spacetime', where 'timelike
    stable patterns' are, what we call 'matter'.

    Matter is charge - electrons orbiting protons or getting stuck to
    protons.


    This is 'materialism' (also known as 'particle concept').

    I wanted to prove, that matter is actually not materialistic, but is
    build from imaterial 'structures'.

    As 'proof of concept' I used 'Growing Earth'.

    This goes like this:

    if the Earth would grow from within, we can be certain, that the
    particle concept must be wrong, because there can't be enough particles
    inside of this planet to make it grow from within.

    But if matter is actually 'relative', the Earth could grow, we could use 'spacetime of GR' as replacement for 'aether' and all are happy.



    See my 'book' about this idea:

    https://docs.google.com/presentation/
    d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing

    Relativistic effects are in this concept not related to velocity but to
    acceleration.

    Relativistic effects occur from Earth's movement in space.


    Well, no!

    'Space' has a different role in my concept.

    It is is actually based on complex numbers (complex valued four vectors)
    and an imaginary axis of time, which multiplied by i gives the three
    real valued axes of space.

    So: the term 'space' is depending on the axis of time, because a multiplication by i means (kind of) 90° rotation.

    Now this has only a relevance, if you would rotate the axis of time a
    bit, because in this case a new space would pop out of nowhere, which is
    filled with matter never seen before.


    IOW: you could create matter out of nothing, by acceleration of
    spacetime.

    Protons and electrons come from aether and vanish into aether. The most striking demonstration is growth from life internal forces; cell
    splitting into two.

    This should be observable in some cases as 'Growing Earth' or 'magic
    dust'.

    See any cell split. how matter appears.
    We come from aether. We return to aether.

    Kind of...



    TH

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  • From Bertietaylor@21:1/5 to Thomas Heger on Thu Jan 30 07:39:40 2025
    On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 6:59:34 +0000, Thomas Heger wrote:

    Am Mittwoch000029, 29.01.2025 um 17:06 schrieb Bertietaylor:


    Regarding GR, it started to mumble shit about quantum spacetime and
    Planck's lengths and times, to later accept that IT'S BELIEVED that GR >>>> has to have a role in atom's behavior, but immediately it added that
    such area is under heavy study by several researches, and that such
    influence of GR on atom's behavior IS FAR FROM BEING KNOWN BY NOW.

    Also, added that efforts to incorporate quantum spacetime in atomic
    theory have been made in the last decades without results (string
    theory, quantum loop gravity, etc.). Additionally, added that a
    completely new theory is needed, but there are no indications that
    current proposals are going to succeed.


    Well, how about my own idea?

    It isn't that new anymore, but aims to fill that gap and base particles
    on spacetime of GR.

    Just forget the depravity of all relativity.

    The concept is therefore called 'stractured spacetime', where 'timelike
    stable patterns' are, what we call 'matter'.

    Matter is charge - electrons orbiting protons or getting stuck to
    protons.


    This is 'materialism' (also known as 'particle concept').

    Not necessarily. Charges are force generating entities composed from
    aether. We are all composed of charges moving through infinitely fine
    aether in an infinite universe. Dreamy but explains all.

    I wanted to prove, that matter is actually not materialistic, but is
    build from imaterial 'structures'.

    Charge is built from aether, a material solid.

    As 'proof of concept' I used 'Growing Earth'.

    This goes like this:

    if the Earth would grow from within, we can be certain, that the
    particle concept must be wrong, because there can't be enough particles inside of this planet to make it grow from within.

    Well a charge can be approximated as a particle for kinetic effects.

    But if matter is actually 'relative', the Earth could grow, we could use 'spacetime of GR' as replacement for 'aether' and all are happy.

    Just throw out all the wrong, stupid, evil, vile, ridiculous, shameless
    and unscientific SR and GR shit.



    See my 'book' about this idea:

    https://docs.google.com/presentation/
    d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing

    Relativistic effects are in this concept not related to velocity but to
    acceleration.

    Relativistic effects occur from Earth's movement in space.


    Well, no!

    'Space' has a different role in my concept.

    It is is actually based on complex numbers (complex valued four vectors)
    and an imaginary axis of time, which multiplied by i gives the three
    real valued axes of space.

    So: the term 'space' is depending on the axis of time, because a multiplication by i means (kind of) 90° rotation.

    Now this has only a relevance, if you would rotate the axis of time a
    bit, because in this case a new space would pop out of nowhere, which is filled with matter never seen before.


    IOW: you could create matter out of nothing, by acceleration of
    spacetime.

    Protons and electrons come from aether and vanish into aether. The most
    striking demonstration is growth from life internal forces; cell
    splitting into two.

    This should be observable in some cases as 'Growing Earth' or 'magic
    dust'.

    See any cell split. how matter appears.
    We come from aether. We return to aether.

    Kind of...



    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to J. J. Lodder on Mon Feb 10 00:14:11 2025
    On 1/28/25 3:21 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    QUESTION: Does relativity breaks down at atomic level?
    Regarding Special Relativity, DeepSeek agreed that non-relativistic
    quantum mechanics is MUCH MORE RELEVANT than the Dirac's model.
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use
    than Dirac's.

    Correct, to lowest order.

    Well, sort of (see below).

    Spin can be handled by Pauli. (to lowest order)

    Not really. The math of spin is the irreducible representations of the
    Lorentz group -- that's inherently SR.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 10 08:05:52 2025
    W dniu 10.02.2025 o 07:14, Tom Roberts pisze:
    On 1/28/25 3:21 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    QUESTION: Does relativity breaks down at atomic level?
    Regarding Special Relativity, DeepSeek agreed that non-relativistic
    quantum mechanics is MUCH MORE RELEVANT than the Dirac's model.
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use >>> than Dirac's.

    Correct, to lowest order.

    Well, sort of (see below).

    Spin can be handled by Pauli. (to lowest order)

    Not really. The math of spin is the irreducible representations of the Lorentz group -- that's inherently SR.


    Speaking of math, it's always good to remind
    that your bunch of idiots had to announce its oldest, very
    important and successful part false, as it didn't want to
    cooperate with your madness.


    Tom Roberts


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  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Mon Feb 10 14:12:38 2025
    Tom Roberts <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 1/28/25 3:21 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    QUESTION: Does relativity breaks down at atomic level?
    Regarding Special Relativity, DeepSeek agreed that non-relativistic
    quantum mechanics is MUCH MORE RELEVANT than the Dirac's model.
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use >> than Dirac's.

    Correct, to lowest order.

    Well, sort of (see below).

    Spin can be handled by Pauli. (to lowest order)

    Not really. The math of spin is the irreducible representations of the Lorentz group -- that's inherently SR.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_equation>

    You think that this needs a rewrite?

    Jan

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  • From Tom Roberts@21:1/5 to J. J. Lodder on Tue Feb 11 00:21:11 2025
    On 2/10/25 7:12 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    Tom Roberts <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 1/28/25 3:21 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use >>>> than Dirac's.

    Correct, to lowest order.

    Well, sort of (see below).

    Spin can be handled by Pauli. (to lowest order)

    Not really. The math of spin is the irreducible representations of the
    Lorentz group -- that's inherently SR.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_equation>

    You think that this needs a rewrite?

    Not really, because it does not claim that relativity is not needed.

    That page simply presents the Pauli matrices (etc.) without explanation.
    That explanation, if given, would inherently involve SR, the notion that
    all physical laws are Lorentz invariant, and spins are described by the irreducible representations of the Lorentz group. Some links on that
    page refer to discussions of spin, including its relationship to SR.

    Tom Roberts

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 11 07:43:44 2025
    W dniu 11.02.2025 o 07:21, Tom Roberts pisze:
    On 2/10/25 7:12 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    Tom Roberts <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 1/28/25 3:21 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple
    to use
    than Dirac's.

    Correct, to lowest order.

    Well, sort of (see below).

    Spin can be handled by Pauli. (to lowest order)

    Not really. The math of spin is the irreducible representations of the
    Lorentz group -- that's inherently SR.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_equation>

    You think that this needs a rewrite?

    Not really, because it does not claim that relativity is not needed.

    That page simply presents the Pauli matrices (etc.) without explanation.
    That explanation, if given, would inherently involve SR, the notion that
    all physical laws are Lorentz invariant, and spins are described by the irreducible representations of the Lorentz group. Some links on that
    page refer to discussions of spin, including its relationship to SR.

    Tom Roberts

    And in the meantime in the real world, forbidden
    by idiots like you improper clocks keep measuring
    improper t'=t in improper seconds.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to Tom Roberts on Tue Feb 11 13:17:13 2025
    Tom Roberts <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2/10/25 7:12 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    Tom Roberts <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 1/28/25 3:21 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    Schrodinger's theory reigns in most cases and is much more simple to use >>>> than Dirac's.

    Correct, to lowest order.

    Well, sort of (see below).

    Spin can be handled by Pauli. (to lowest order)

    Not really. The math of spin is the irreducible representations of the
    Lorentz group -- that's inherently SR.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_equation>

    You think that this needs a rewrite?

    Not really, because it does not claim that relativity is not needed.

    That page simply presents the Pauli matrices (etc.) without explanation.
    That explanation, if given, would inherently involve SR, the notion that
    all physical laws are Lorentz invariant, and spins are described by the irreducible representations of the Lorentz group. Some links on that
    page refer to discussions of spin, including its relationship to SR.

    There is no need to. The Pauli equation just is,
    and it does predict the correct atomic spectra,
    to the order to which it is valid.
    (with some care!)

    On a historical note, you might remember
    that the relativistic Dirac equation (1928) is a development
    of Pauli's non-relativistic equation for electrons with spin,
    (1924-1927) not the other way round.
    Wikipedia is correct about it,

    Jan

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