• Re: Newton: Photon falling from h meters increase its energy.

    From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 11 18:25:42 2025
    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 18:16, rhertz pisze:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected
    by gravity.

    Under which Newton? Do you mean Newton's
    optics? It was abandoned in XVIIIth century.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 11 19:43:41 2025
    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 19:10, rhertz pisze:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 17:25:42 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 18:16, rhertz pisze:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected >>> by gravity.

    Under which Newton? Do you mean Newton's
    optics? It was abandoned in XVIIIth century.

    Von Soldner's Newton (since 1801)

    Newton's optics was abandoned, if not in XVIIIth
    century than not very long after 1801.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 11 21:34:14 2025
    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 20:40, rhertz pisze:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:43:41 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 19:10, rhertz pisze:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 17:25:42 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 18:16, rhertz pisze:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's
    affected
    by gravity.

    Under which Newton? Do you mean Newton's
    optics? It was abandoned in XVIIIth century.

    Von Soldner's Newton (since 1801)

    Newton's optics was abandoned, if not in XVIIIth
    century than not very long after 1801.

    And recovered by Einstein in 1911, with a paper WHERE HE MAKE
    AFFIRMATIONS about gravitational mass of energy.


    No, recovered by his idiot minions urgently
    needing to beat some Newton's physics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to rhertz on Sat Jan 11 21:45:08 2025
    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:43:41 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 19:10, rhertz pisze:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 17:25:42 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 18:16, rhertz pisze:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected >>>> by gravity.

    Under which Newton? Do you mean Newton's
    optics? It was abandoned in XVIIIth century.

    Von Soldner's Newton (since 1801)

    Newton's optics was abandoned, if not in XVIIIth
    century than not very long after 1801.

    And recovered by Einstein in 1911, with a paper WHERE HE MAKE
    AFFIRMATIONS about gravitational mass of energy.

    Ask yourself WHY 1960 Pound-Rebka paper had the title "Apparent weight
    of photons" and later, before his death, Pound wrote his memoirs
    "Weighting photons".

    All entirely correct,
    -in the Newtonian approximation to general relativity-.

    As yet we have not yet encountered circumstances in which
    the Newtonian approximation is not good enough
    to calculate the relativistic red shift,

    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul B. Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 12 19:42:43 2025
    Den 12.01.2025 02:31, skrev rhertz:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 20:45:08 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:

    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:43:41 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 19:10, rhertz pisze:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 17:25:42 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 18:16, rhertz pisze:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's
    affected
    by gravity.

    Under which Newton? Do you mean Newton's
    optics? It was abandoned in XVIIIth century.

    Von Soldner's Newton (since 1801)

    Newton's optics was abandoned, if not in XVIIIth
    century than not very long after 1801.

    And recovered by Einstein in 1911, with a paper WHERE HE MAKE
    AFFIRMATIONS about gravitational mass of energy.

    Ask yourself WHY 1960 Pound-Rebka paper had the title "Apparent weight
    of photons" and later, before his death, Pound wrote his memoirs
    "Weighting photons".

    All entirely correct,
    -in the Newtonian approximation to general relativity-.

    As yet we have not yet encountered circumstances in which
    the Newtonian approximation is not good enough
    to calculate the relativistic red shift,

    Jan



    Then you accept what Einstein affirmed in his 1911 paper: "Energy has gravitational mass".

    So much gobbledygook in such old paper just to conceal that he was using Planck to calculate a shift of gh/c^2 and also m=E/c^2.

    And 50 years later you had Pound embarrassing himself by using an
    eye-catcher title on his paper "Does photons have mass?", just to forget
    to expand that title within his 1960 paper! Rebka was only his slave, a graduate student who depended on Pound to get his PhD in 1961.

    Shame, scam, crooks, hoax, fraud, etc. This is what relativism is full
    of.

    Photons have no rest mass.

    According to Newton, the acceleration of a particle with mass m is:
    F = GM⋅m/r²
    a = F/m = GM/r²
    where G is the gravitational constant, M is the mass of the Earth
    and r i the distance from the centre of the Earth.
    and a = dr/dt

    a = GM/r² is independent of m, so this equation is valid even if m = 0.

    So according to Newton the photon doesn't have to have a rest mass
    to be blue shifted or be gravitational deflected.

    Newton predict the same blue shift as GR,
    but Newton's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is only half of the experimentally verified GR-prediction.


    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 12 20:39:35 2025
    W dniu 12.01.2025 o 19:42, Paul B. Andersen pisze:
    Den 12.01.2025 02:31, skrev rhertz:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 20:45:08 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:

    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:43:41 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 19:10, rhertz pisze:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 17:25:42 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 18:16, rhertz pisze:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's >>>>>>>> affected
    by gravity.

    Under which Newton? Do you mean Newton's
    optics? It was abandoned in XVIIIth century.

    Von Soldner's Newton (since 1801)

    Newton's optics was abandoned, if not in XVIIIth
    century than not very long after 1801.

    And recovered by Einstein in 1911, with a paper WHERE HE MAKE
    AFFIRMATIONS about gravitational mass of energy.

    Ask yourself WHY 1960 Pound-Rebka paper had the title "Apparent weight >>>> of photons" and later, before his death, Pound wrote his memoirs
    "Weighting photons".

    All entirely correct,
    -in the Newtonian approximation to general relativity-.

    As yet we have not yet encountered circumstances in which
    the Newtonian approximation is not good enough
    to calculate the relativistic red shift,

    Jan



    Then you accept what Einstein affirmed in his 1911 paper: "Energy has
    gravitational mass".

    So much gobbledygook in such old paper just to conceal that he was using
    Planck to calculate a shift of gh/c^2 and also m=E/c^2.

    And 50 years later you had Pound embarrassing himself by using an
    eye-catcher title on his paper "Does photons have mass?", just to forget
    to expand that title within his 1960 paper! Rebka was only his slave, a
    graduate student who depended on Pound to get his PhD in 1961.

    Shame, scam, crooks, hoax, fraud, etc. This is what relativism is full
    of.

    Photons have no rest mass.

    According to Newton, the acceleration of a particle with mass m is:

    And as photons have no mass - according to Newton
    you can't say anything about them. Your "falsification"
    is a sorry lie, as usual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 12 22:50:44 2025
    Den 12.01.2025 02:31, skrev rhertz:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 20:45:08 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:

    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:43:41 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 19:10, rhertz pisze:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 17:25:42 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 18:16, rhertz pisze:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's >>>>>>> affected
    by gravity.

    Under which Newton? Do you mean Newton's
    optics? It was abandoned in XVIIIth century.

    Von Soldner's Newton (since 1801)

    Newton's optics was abandoned, if not in XVIIIth
    century than not very long after 1801.

    And recovered by Einstein in 1911, with a paper WHERE HE MAKE
    AFFIRMATIONS about gravitational mass of energy.

    Ask yourself WHY 1960 Pound-Rebka paper had the title "Apparent weight >>> of photons" and later, before his death, Pound wrote his memoirs
    "Weighting photons".

    All entirely correct,
    -in the Newtonian approximation to general relativity-.

    As yet we have not yet encountered circumstances in which
    the Newtonian approximation is not good enough
    to calculate the relativistic red shift,

    Jan



    Then you accept what Einstein affirmed in his 1911 paper: "Energy has gravitational mass".

    Certainly. That survives into the general theory.
    The gravitational binding energy contributes to the stress-energy
    tensor, which is the source term in general relativity.
    This is what makes the theory non-linear, and hence difficult.

    So much gobbledygook in such old paper just to conceal that he was using Planck to calculate a shift of gh/c^2 and also m=E/c^2.

    Why conceal it? It is correct, in the Newtonian limit.
    And it was good heuristics, on the way to the general theory.

    And 50 years later you had Pound embarrassing himself by using an eye-catcher title on his paper "Does photons have mass?", just to forget
    to expand that title within his 1960 paper! Rebka was only his slave, a graduate student who depended on Pound to get his PhD in 1961.

    ??You??

    And nothing wrong with it.
    The energy of all those photons inside the sun for example
    does contribute to its gravitational mass.

    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 12 21:54:46 2025
    Le 12/01/2025 à 20:39, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 12.01.2025 o 19:42, Paul B. Andersen pisze:

    And as photons have no mass - according to Newton
    you can't say anything about them. Your "falsification"
    is a sorry lie, as usual.

    Le photon ne peut pas avoir de masse propre, puisqu'il n'existe pas.

    "Il n'y a rien entre là et là".
    Docteur Richard Hachel

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to rhertz on Mon Jan 13 05:07:54 2025
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 20:45:08 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:

    rhertz <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:43:41 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 19:10, rhertz pisze:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 17:25:42 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 11.01.2025 o 18:16, rhertz pisze:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected
    by gravity.

    Under which Newton? Do you mean Newton's
    optics? It was abandoned in XVIIIth century.

    Von Soldner's Newton (since 1801)

    Newton's optics was abandoned, if not in XVIIIth
    century than not very long after 1801.

    And recovered by Einstein in 1911, with a paper WHERE HE MAKE
    AFFIRMATIONS about gravitational mass of energy.

    Ask yourself WHY 1960 Pound-Rebka paper had the title "Apparent weight
    of photons" and later, before his death, Pound wrote his memoirs
    "Weighting photons".

    All entirely correct,
    -in the Newtonian approximation to general relativity-.

    As yet we have not yet encountered circumstances in which
    the Newtonian approximation is not good enough
    to calculate the relativistic red shift,

    Jan



    Then you accept what Einstein affirmed in his 1911 paper: "Energy has gravitational mass".

    So much gobbledygook in such old paper just to conceal that he was using Planck to calculate a shift of gh/c^2 and also m=E/c^2.

    And 50 years later you had Pound embarrassing himself by using an
    eye-catcher title on his paper "Does photons have mass?", just to forget
    to expand that title within his 1960 paper! Rebka was only his slave, a graduate student who depended on Pound to get his PhD in 1961.

    Shame, scam, crooks, hoax, fraud, etc. This is what relativism is full
    of.
    "Soldner, Einstein, Gravitational Light Deflection and Factors of Two"
    This paper gives an interesting discussion of Soldner's calculation.

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";
    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 15:06:47 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit
    :
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection= "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";
    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or Greta Thunberg. No more.

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 17:08:03 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 16:06, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit :
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";
    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or Greta Thunberg. No more.

    This is a idiotic statement that only shows your own stupidity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Python on Mon Jan 13 18:43:35 2025
    On 2025-01-13 17:08:03 +0000, Python said:

    Le 13/01/2025 � 16:06, Richard Hachel a �crit :
    Le 13/01/2025 � 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a �crit : >>> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";
    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or Greta
    Thunberg. No more.

    This is a idiotic statement that only shows your own stupidity.

    You took the words out of my mouth. Albert Einstein certainly existed,
    and Emmanuel Macron and Greta Thunberg also exist, whether "Dr" Hachel
    likes them or not.

    If you're looking for an artificial creation (not by the media: who
    would bother?) look no further than "Dr" Richard Hachel. No relevant qualifications, not even his real name: entirely artificial.


    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 19:54:29 2025
    Den 13.01.2025 06:07, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Soldner, Einstein, Gravitational Light Deflection and Factors of Two"
    This paper gives an interesting discussion of Soldner's calculation.
    This paper is written by Tilman Sauer in 2021.

    In 1801 Johann Georg von Soldner calculated the Newtonian prediction
    for the deflection of light grazing the Sun to be 0.84",
    which is quite close to the correct value 0.875".

    Sauer speculates if there are misprints in Soldner's calculation
    so that his result should be a factor of two higher, that is 1.68"
    which is quite close to Einstein's 1916 calculation 1.7".
    (With somewhat better precision GR predicts 1.75")

    If Soldner had calculated 1.68", he would be wrong.
    The Newtonian prediction is 0.875".


    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection= "photographic plates?

    How ridiculous! :-D

    Einstein calculated the GR prediction 1.7" in 1916,
    before any measurements of the deflection was made.

    See:
    https://paulba.no/paper/Foundation_of_GR.pdf

    At the top of page 69:

    "We examine the curvature undergone by a ray of light passing
    by a mass M at the distance Δ."

    The calculation is shown on page 69 and the result is given
    at the bottom of the page:

    "According to this, a ray of light going past the sun undergoes
    a deflexion of 1.7"."

    So in 1916 nobody, including Einstein, knew what the correct
    value was, because no measurements were ever made.


    Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.

    Poor did what? Use a refraction formula to repudiate
    Eddington's measurements? If Poor had done so,
    wouldn't that have been to explain Eddington's measurements?

    But of course Poor did no such thing. See below.

    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics";

    Ah! So that's where you found the "refraction formula"! :-D

    In 1930 Poor obviously knew 'The mathematical formula,
    by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75".'

    This is the equation: Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² @
    where:
    Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
    c = speed of light in vacuum
    G = gravitational constant
    M = solar mass
    In this case Δ = R, the radius of the Sun.

    This is indeed "a well known and simple formula" and
    since it is about physics and optics (light)
    Poor called it a "formula of physical optics".

    It has nothing to do with refraction, obviously.

    Why did you think that Poor claimed it was about refraction? :-D


    "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";

    Quite right.
    Einstein's formula Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is a well known and simple formula
    of physical optics which contains nothing about time dilation
    or relativity of simultaneity.

    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -

    This was right(ish) in 1930.

    The eclipse measurements are notorious imprecise,
    and are now of historical interest only.

    Many measurement (of EM-radiation NOT grazing the Sun) are performed:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.


    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 19:28:53 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 18:43, Athel Cornish-Bowden a écrit :
    On 2025-01-13 17:08:03 +0000, Python said:

    Le 13/01/2025 à 16:06, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit :
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved >>>> in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light"; >>>> "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or Greta
    Thunberg. No more.

    This is a idiotic statement that only shows your own stupidity.

    You took the words out of my mouth. Albert Einstein certainly existed,
    and Emmanuel Macron and Greta Thunberg also exist, whether "Dr" Hachel
    likes them or not.

    If you're looking for an artificial creation (not by the media: who
    would bother?) look no further than "Dr" Richard Hachel. No relevant qualifications, not even his real name: entirely artificial.

    No, no, it is a media creation; like Superman is a novelist creation.
    He does not exist and never existed, they are only pixels on a screen,
    like Snow White.

    Same for Macron, and for Greta Thunberg.

    They do not exist.

    C'est des créatures inventées par l'intelligence artificielle des
    médias, épicétou.

    Rien à voir avec des Leibniz, des Poincaré, des De Gaulle, des Gauss...

    R.H.



    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 19:20:58 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 18:08, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 16:06, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit : >>> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";
    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or Greta
    Thunberg. No more.

    This is a idiotic statement that only shows your own stupidity.

    Python, you are a hypocrite..

    You are not going to make me believe that you do not know these things.

    You have read a lot about Einstein in relativist forums for decades. So
    you must know what his beginnings are, where and how they were made, how
    he was awarded a Nobel Prize and then how he was photographed everywhere
    in the world press. It was obviously a voluntary creation. It is a shame
    that we can "doubt" it.

    For Greta Thunberg, explain to me how an uneducated kid can make the front pages of the world's newspapers because she likes baby seals and is afraid
    that the ice cap is melting.

    As for Macron, you who are French, explain to me how a stranger to the
    public can, in a few years, become the ideal man for France, while some
    who knew him said he was a complete idiot, that we know he was never
    elected anywhere, and that he probably didn't know how to name the capital
    of Ukraine or Lithuania. I'm not even talking about finding the derivative
    of a simple plynomial.

    But out of a taste for provocation, you're going to tell me that I'm
    wrong, and that I'm stupid.

    But no one will believe you, and those who say it will pretend.

    R.H.

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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 19:35:48 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:28, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    ...

    Rien à voir avec des Leibniz, des Poincaré, des De Gaulle, des Gauss...

    As if *you*, the worse kind of idiotic egomaniac crank and liar and well
    known for that could understand what Leibniz, Poincaré or Gauss actually
    did. You are a joke, a bad disgusting, stinking
    joke, (hopefully former M.D.) Richard "Hachel" Lengrand.

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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 19:31:35 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:20, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 18:08, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 16:06, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit :
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved >>>> in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light"; >>>> "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or Greta
    Thunberg. No more.

    This is a idiotic statement that only shows your own stupidity.

    Python, you are a hypocrite..

    You are not going to make me believe that you do not know these things.

    You have read a lot about Einstein in relativist forums for decades. So you must
    know what his beginnings are, where and how they were made, how he was awarded a
    Nobel Prize and then how he was photographed everywhere in the world press. It was
    obviously a voluntary creation. It is a shame that we can "doubt" it.

    Everything you claimed about Einstein's Nobel Prize are lies. Plain lies. Shameful disgusting lies.

    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:

    - Study of the brownian motion, confirming atomic theory
    - Explanation of the photoelectric effect [this was picked by the Nobel committee because the prize is supposed to focus on applied physics and Relativity didn't get much experimental confirmations *yet*]
    - Determination of molecules sizes
    - And of course : Special Relativity and General Relatity

    All of this in a single year, while it took you decades to claim that 2 +
    2 can be 5 for some observers... You are a disgrace for Humanity, M.D.
    Richard "Hachel" Lengrand.

    The shame is on your side, Lengrand. You are a fraud.

    I have read a lot, right, far more than you did. And contrarily to you I
    did understand what I've read.

    So I know that your claims are nonsense and illustrate your stupidity. You
    are the damned hypocrite here.

    [snip more nonsense, off-topic btw]

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  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Richard Hachel on Mon Jan 13 19:50:14 2025
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 15:06:47 +0000, Richard Hachel wrote:

    Le 13/01/2025 à 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit
    :
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";
    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or Greta Thunberg. No more.

    R.H.
    Indeed, Einstein is always entirely beside the point. The point is that
    the formula is an optics formula, not a gravitation formula.

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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 19:50:36 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:


    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in the a** Wozniak.

    Moreover nobody is rejecting Euclidan Geometry. You'll never understand anything on math, physics or physics. Find another hobby!

    poor stinker.

    Nice signature! Very adequate!

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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 20:47:15 2025
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:20, Richard Hachel  a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 18:08, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 16:06, Richard Hachel  a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a
    écrit :
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved >>>>> in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of
    light";
    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." - >>>>> saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or
    Greta Thunberg. No more.

    This is a idiotic statement that only shows your own stupidity.

    Python, you are a hypocrite..

    You are not going to make me believe that you do not know these things.

    You have read a lot about Einstein in relativist forums for decades.
    So you must know what his beginnings are, where and how they were
    made, how he was awarded a Nobel Prize and then how he was
    photographed everywhere in the world press. It was obviously a
    voluntary creation. It is a shame that we can "doubt" it.

    Everything you claimed about Einstein's Nobel Prize are lies. Plain
    lies. Shameful disgusting lies.

    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:


    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read (even if not
    clearly enough for you, poor stinker).

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  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 19:55:54 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:31, Python a écrit :

    You are a fraud.

    I can't be an imposter since my entire theory of relativity is a personal
    and coherent creation that holds together as a single block.

    Secondly, let's say I copied from someone: I copied from WHOM?

    Then you have to prove that everything I say is false.

    Except that the system is coherent from A to Z.

    You promised to tackle my pdf as soon as it's finished.

    I advise you to buy good oars, the separatist.

    R.H.

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  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 19:58:36 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:35, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:28, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    ...

    Rien à voir avec des Leibniz, des Poincaré, des De Gaulle, des Gauss...

    You are a joke, a bad disgusting, stinking joke

    C'est faux, j'ai demandé à Maciej si quelqu'un était "stinking" ici,
    il a dit oui, mais que c'était pas moi.

    R.H.

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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 20:06:30 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:58, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:35, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:28, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    ...

    Rien à voir avec des Leibniz, des Poincaré, des De Gaulle, des Gauss... >>
    You are a joke, a bad disgusting, stinking joke

    C'est faux, j'ai demandé à Maciej si quelqu'un était "stinking" ici, il a dit oui, mais que c'était pas moi.


    The same Maciej that considers you as "stinking" as most posters down
    here?

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  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Mon Jan 13 21:05:44 2025
    Paul.B.Andersen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Den 13.01.2025 06:07, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Soldner, Einstein, Gravitational Light Deflection and Factors of Two"
    This paper gives an interesting discussion of Soldner's calculation.
    This paper is written by Tilman Sauer in 2021.

    In 1801 Johann Georg von Soldner calculated the Newtonian prediction
    for the deflection of light grazing the Sun to be 0.84",
    which is quite close to the correct value 0.875".

    Sauer speculates if there are misprints in Soldner's calculation
    so that his result should be a factor of two higher, that is 1.68"
    which is quite close to Einstein's 1916 calculation 1.7".
    (With somewhat better precision GR predicts 1.75")

    If Soldner had calculated 1.68", he would be wrong.
    The Newtonian prediction is 0.875".


    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection= "photographic plates?

    How ridiculous! :-D

    Einstein calculated the GR prediction 1.7" in 1916,
    before any measurements of the deflection was made.

    See:
    https://paulba.no/paper/Foundation_of_GR.pdf

    At the top of page 69:

    "We examine the curvature undergone by a ray of light passing
    by a mass M at the distance ?."

    The calculation is shown on page 69 and the result is given
    at the bottom of the page:

    "According to this, a ray of light going past the sun undergoes
    a deflexion of 1.7"."

    So in 1916 nobody, including Einstein, knew what the correct
    value was, because no measurements were ever made.

    But it is a matter of record that Hilbert complimented Einstein
    on the rapidity and cleverness with which he had derived
    the correct value for the deflection of starlight
    from the equations of general relativity.
    (if only I could calculate like you...)
    Hilbert certainly did not see any error in it or he would have said so.
    Not surprising of course, because there isnt any.

    Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical scientist.

    Poor did what? Use a refraction formula to repudiate
    Eddington's measurements? If Poor had done so,
    wouldn't that have been to explain Eddington's measurements?

    But of course Poor did no such thing. See below.

    OTOH, copies (contact prints) of Eddington's plates were made in 1919,
    and some of these were sent to other observarories
    for independent remeasurement. No one found a different result.

    The modern remeasurement, which fully vindicated Eddington (again!)
    was made on one of those copies.

    Jan

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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 20:04:40 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:55, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:31, Python a écrit :

    You are a fraud.

    I can't be an imposter since my entire theory of relativity is a personal and coherent creation that holds together as a single block.

    It is definitely personal. But it is, nevertheless, a bunch of nonsense
    and contradictions as it has been showed numerous time.

    Secondly, let's say I copied from someone: I copied from WHOM?

    I didn't pretend that you copied it. It may be original and wrong. None of
    your fellow cranks has followed you. It is likely that you on the top 5 of stupidity, even amongst cranks.

    You promised to tackle my pdf as soon as it's finished.

    It has already been done for almost all of your claims...

    https://gitlab.com/python_431/cranks-and-physics/-/tree/main/Hachel?ref_type=heads

    And a bunch of Usenet posts, for your more recent claims on accelerated travelers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 20:12:52 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:50, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit
    :
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 15:06:47 +0000, Richard Hachel wrote:

    Le 13/01/2025 à 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit >> :
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";
    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or Greta
    Thunberg. No more.

    R.H.
    Indeed, Einstein is always entirely beside the point. The point is that
    the formula is an optics formula, not a gravitation formula.

    I can't answer you because I have no knowledge of general relativity, and
    I don't believe, moreover, in the effects of gravity on photons since they don't exist.

    In the receiver's frame of reference, the photon is an instantaneous
    transfer of energy (a quantum) and I can't see how an instantaneous
    transfer of energy could be deflected in an infinitely short (zero) time.

    The same goes for the photon, which, if it had a frame of reference, would
    see the receiver arrive at it infinitely quickly, from infinitely far
    away, and in an infinitely short time.

    I am therefore very surprised that we can think that gravitation curves
    space (pure nothingness without ether) with its little muscular fingers.

    When we look at the sun with special instruments, we observe immense arcs
    of matter and energy ejected over colossal distances. I will not be made
    to believe that there is no gas or matter in this heliosphere, and that
    optical phenomena of diffraction are impossible there.

    Afterwards, I do not know. I am not a specialist.

    But when I see how we were able to sabotage the SR from its foundations,
    and how much human beings were able to sabotage Poincaré's special
    relativity. I think that everything is possible.

    R.H.

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  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 20:34:36 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:04, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:55, Richard Hachel a écrit :

    And a bunch of Usenet posts, for your more recent claims on accelerated travelers.

    That's very kind of you.
    It's quite rare to see you so kind, did you put honey in your Cognac?

    Oh no, you're drinking Rum.
    It would please the Gods if a man glorified his enemy by admitting that at least he doesn't cheat, and that what he says, he says of his own accord.

    It remains to be demonstrated that everything I say is true.

    So be it.

    Now, you add: "I have already demonstrated to you, on numerous occasions,
    that there were errors in everything you say, notably in the proper times
    of accelerated objects, in the equality of certain proper times, in your apparent speeds, etc...etc...etc...."

    Except that an improper term has been inserted in your sentence. You use
    the word "err". You say: "I have already demonstrated to you, on numerous occasions, that there were errors in..."

    You are making a confusion (voluntary or involuntary) with the term
    "difference from what is taught".

    I have often noticed that many people told me that I made mistakes, except
    that they called "theoretical discrepancies" errors.

    These are not errors in the proper sense, neither mathematical (2+2=4 for everyone), nor theoretical (it is simply that the geometry used by Hachel
    is infinitely less grotesque than that of Minkowski, but that a follower
    of Minkowski reading Hachel will go crazy, and believe that it is Hachel
    who makes "errors".

    These are not errors, it is simply a geometry that is more beautiful, more logical, less imprisoned in the straitjacket of the abstract and
    ridiculous Minkowskian block.

    A true theory is a beautiful theory.

    If a theory is not beautiful, it is because it is not true.

    Je le répète, tu confonds "théorie fausse" et "théorie dissidente".

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 20:20:32 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:12, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip nonsense]

    When we look at the sun with special instruments, we observe immense arcs of matter and energy ejected over colossal distances. I will not be made to believe
    that there is no gas or matter in this heliosphere, and that optical phenomena of
    diffraction are impossible there.

    You cannot "be made to believe" what is experimentally observed. Not only
    the density of the corona is very well known, and optical refraction is
    100% ruled out, but the deviation is also measured for light arriving at
    an angle of 90° with the ecliptic plane on Earth. So any effect of the
    Sun matter, magnetic field, etc. is definitely ruled out. And you should
    know: it as it has been pointed out to you numerous time.

    In that very sense, Richard, you are a FRAUD. You are in denial of
    experiments in addition to be in denial of logic. Also you are a impudent
    LIAR.

    But when I see how we were able to sabotage the SR from its foundations, and how
    much human beings were able to sabotage Poincaré's special relativity.

    another lie, as usual...

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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 20:39:38 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:34, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip idiotic babbling]

    If a theory is not beautiful, it is because it is not true.

    The bunch of nonsense you call your "theory" is not only WRONG
    (experimentally AND logically) is is, also, utterly UGLY.

    Je le répète, tu confonds "théorie fausse" et "théorie dissidente".


    You can repeat it, it is still wrong. It is not about "dissidence" but
    about "contradictions" and "nonsense".

    You an egomaniac and a crank, Richard. Face it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 20:50:25 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:39, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:34, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip idiotic babbling]

    If a theory is not beautiful, it is because it is not true.

    The bunch of nonsense you call your "theory" is not only WRONG (experimentally
    AND logically) is is, also, utterly UGLY.

    Je le répète, tu confonds "théorie fausse" et "théorie dissidente".


    You can repeat it, it is still wrong. It is not about "dissidence" but about "contradictions" and "nonsense".

    You an egomaniac and a crank, Richard. Face it.

    C'est l'inverse qui est vrai.

    C'est la théorie actuelle qui est pleine de paradoxes et de
    contradictions (je te les ai expliquées de nombreuses fois).

    A noter que les physiciens sont très ennuyés si on leur parle, sur le
    plan expérimental, de transfert instantané d'information ; ou sur le
    plan théorique, du fait que lorsqu'elle vient de virer, Stella qui est de nouveau à sa vitesse de croisière de 0.8c, voit arriver sur elle la
    terre avec une énorme vitesse apparente de Vapp=4c.

    Et que cela va forcément se produire pendant neuf ans.

    Mais tu le sais tout ça.

    Et que leur contraction des distances à la con explose et ne tient pas.

    Leur fantasme ne tient pas une seconde, mais ils adorent leur fantasme, préférant cracher à la gueule d'un mec plus "scientifique" qu'eux et
    qui leur montre une géométrie d'une grande logique et d'une pure beauté mathématique.

    "Plus petit, même l'homme le plus grand que j'ai vu".
    F. Nietzsche

    Il faut arrêter avec ce fantasme d'arrogance qui veut que l'homme est intelligent, et qu'il a tout compris.


    R.H.

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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 20:54:48 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:50, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:39, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:34, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip idiotic babbling]
    [snip more idiotic babbling


    Il faut arrêter avec ce fantasme d'arrogance qui veut que l'homme est intelligent, et qu'il a tout compris.

    Exactly. So stop doing that! Especially when your fallacies, your contradictions and your misconceptions have been pointed out precisely.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 21:05:13 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:54, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:50, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:39, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:34, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip idiotic babbling]
    [snip more idiotic babbling


    Il faut arrêter avec ce fantasme d'arrogance qui veut que l'homme est
    intelligent, et qu'il a tout compris.

    Exactly. So stop doing that! Especially when your fallacies, your contradictions
    and your misconceptions have been pointed out precisely.

    :))


    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 21:09:12 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:05, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:54, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:50, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:39, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:34, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip idiotic babbling]
    [snip more idiotic babbling


    Il faut arrêter avec ce fantasme d'arrogance qui veut que l'homme est
    intelligent, et qu'il a tout compris.

    Exactly. So stop doing that! Especially when your fallacies, your contradictions
    and your misconceptions have been pointed out precisely.

    :))

    It makes you smile to be an arrogant, an imbecile, an ignorant in addition
    to be a liar and a fraud?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 22:37:27 2025
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 21:20, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:12, Richard Hachel  a écrit :
    [snip nonsense]

    When we look at the sun with special instruments, we observe immense
    arcs of matter and energy ejected over colossal distances. I will not
    be made to believe that there is no gas or matter in this heliosphere,
    and that optical phenomena of diffraction are impossible there.

    You cannot "be made to believe" what is experimentally observed.

    For sure you can be made to believe those
    idiocies of your mumbling guru are
    experimentally observed; you're soooo
    stupid. If you couldn't you wouldn't
    believe they are.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 22:33:33 2025
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:


    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in the a**

    Wozniak.


    No, poor stinker, I didn't. A lie as usual.



    Moreover nobody is rejecting Euclidan Geometry.


    And, of course, another lie. As usual.

    You'll never understand
    anything on math, physics or physics.


    See, poor stinker - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it
    apart of spitting, insulting and slandering.
    And you're just doing what you can for your beloved
    Shit and your beloved church.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 21:40:44 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:37, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 21:20, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:12, Richard Hachel  a écrit :
    [snip nonsense]

    When we look at the sun with special instruments, we observe immense
    arcs of matter and energy ejected over colossal distances. I will not
    be made to believe that there is no gas or matter in this heliosphere,
    and that optical phenomena of diffraction are impossible there.

    You cannot "be made to believe" what is experimentally observed.

    For sure you can be made to believe those
    idiocies of your mumbling guru are
    experimentally observed; you're soooo
    stupid. If you couldn't you wouldn't
    believe they are.

    Your dementia is boooring, Wozniak.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 22:45:51 2025
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:


    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in the a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his moronic physics.
    A fanatic piece of shit screaming "NOOOOO!!!",
    spitting and slandering is changing nothing,
    sorry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 21:58:09 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:


    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in the a** >>>
    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his, physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    screaming "NOOOOO!!!", is changing nothing,

    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly
    "proofs". This is was not difficult anyway, given your level of stupidity.

    sorry.

    To be an idiot, and a demented ranting old crank? You can.

     A fanatic piece of moronic shit, spitting and slandering.

    Very nice signature though.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 23:13:15 2025
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:58, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:


    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in the >>>>> a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    Nope. As said - either a lie or a delusion.
    Both typical for a relativistic idiot in general
    and for you especially.


    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his,  physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    Of course they are, they're consequences
    of the physics of your idiot guru.



    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly

    Nope, I've got some utterly ridiculous
    assertions, extremly stupid even considering
    the usual level of the Shit's worshippers.
    Well, nothing more was ever expected, of
    course. It's changing nothing, the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent,
    it's been proven and a fanatic piece of shit
    screaming "NOOOOO!!!" spitting and slandering is
    changing nothing. Sorry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 22:14:10 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 23:13, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:58, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:


    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in the >>>>>> a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    Nope. As said - either a lie or a delusion.
    Both typical for a relativistic idiot in general
    and for you especially.


    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his,  physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    Of course they are, they're consequences
    of the physics of your idiot guru.



    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly

    Nope, I've got some utterly ridiculous
    assertions, extremly stupid even considering
    the usual level of the Shit's worshippers.
    Well, nothing more was ever expected, of
    course. It's changing nothing, the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent,
    it's been proven and a fanatic piece of shit
    screaming "NOOOOO!!!" spitting and slandering is
    changing nothing. Sorry.

    If it were a proof how come nobody but you recognizes it as such?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 00:14:01 2025
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 23:14, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 23:13, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:58, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:


    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in >>>>>>> the a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    Nope. As said - either a lie or a delusion.
    Both typical for a relativistic idiot in general
    and for you especially.


    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his,  physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    Of course they are, they're consequences
    of the physics of your idiot guru.



    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly

    Nope, I've got some utterly ridiculous
    assertions, extremly stupid even considering
    the usual level of the Shit's worshippers.
    Well,  nothing more was ever expected, of
    course. It's changing nothing, the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent,
    it's been proven and a fanatic piece of shit
    screaming "NOOOOO!!!" spitting and slandering is
    changing nothing. Sorry.

    If it were a proof how come nobody but you recognizes it as such?

    Nobody is expecting a bunch of
    fanatic idiots to recognize and accept
    a proof that their divine guru was just
    a mumbling crazie.
    Expecting something like that from
    a bunch of brainwashed fanatics wouldn't
    be wise, would it?




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Tue Jan 14 00:36:33 2025
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 18:54:29 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 13.01.2025 06:07, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Soldner, Einstein, Gravitational Light Deflection and Factors of Two"
    This paper gives an interesting discussion of Soldner's calculation.
    This paper is written by Tilman Sauer in 2021.

    In 1801 Johann Georg von Soldner calculated the Newtonian prediction
    for the deflection of light grazing the Sun to be 0.84",
    which is quite close to the correct value 0.875".

    Sauer speculates if there are misprints in Soldner's calculation
    so that his result should be a factor of two higher, that is 1.68"
    which is quite close to Einstein's 1916 calculation 1.7".
    (With somewhat better precision GR predicts 1.75")

    If Soldner had calculated 1.68", he would be wrong.
    The Newtonian prediction is 0.875".


    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates?

    How ridiculous! :-D

    Einstein calculated the GR prediction 1.7" in 1916,
    before any measurements of the deflection was made.

    See:
    https://paulba.no/paper/Foundation_of_GR.pdf

    At the top of page 69:

    "We examine the curvature undergone by a ray of light passing
    by a mass M at the distance Δ."

    The calculation is shown on page 69 and the result is given
    at the bottom of the page:

    "According to this, a ray of light going past the sun undergoes
    a deflexion of 1.7"."

    So in 1916 nobody, including Einstein, knew what the correct
    value was, because no measurements were ever made.


    Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.

    Poor did what? Use a refraction formula to repudiate
    Eddington's measurements? If Poor had done so,
    wouldn't that have been to explain Eddington's measurements?

    But of course Poor did no such thing. See below.

    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics";

    Ah! So that's where you found the "refraction formula"! :-D

    In 1930 Poor obviously knew 'The mathematical formula,
    by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75".'

    This is the equation: Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² @
    where:
    Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
    c = speed of light in vacuum
    G = gravitational constant
    M = solar mass
    In this case Δ = R, the radius of the Sun.

    This is indeed "a well known and simple formula" and
    since it is about physics and optics (light)
    Poor called it a "formula of physical optics".

    It has nothing to do with refraction, obviously.

    Why did you think that Poor claimed it was about refraction? :-D


    "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";

    Quite right.
    Einstein's formula Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is a well known and simple formula
    of physical optics which contains nothing about time dilation
    or relativity of simultaneity.

    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -

    This was right(ish) in 1930.

    The eclipse measurements are notorious imprecise,
    and are now of historical interest only.

    Many measurement (of EM-radiation NOT grazing the Sun) are performed:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    "This is exactly double the value given in 1911, and this doubling
    of values has given rise to many speculations, and to many and
    varied explanations, on the part of the relativists.
    An inspection of the formulas, which Einstein used, shows
    exactly what he did and how he derived this result. The essential
    factor in the formula is that for the rate of change of velocity
    along the wave-front 6c, 6x ; and this is the only factor in which
    any change can be made. All the other terms and factors of the
    formula are always identically the same." - Poor = "THE RELATIVITY
    DEFLECTION OF LIGHT!"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Tue Jan 14 00:21:55 2025
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 18:54:29 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 13.01.2025 06:07, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Soldner, Einstein, Gravitational Light Deflection and Factors of Two"
    This paper gives an interesting discussion of Soldner's calculation.
    This paper is written by Tilman Sauer in 2021.

    In 1801 Johann Georg von Soldner calculated the Newtonian prediction
    for the deflection of light grazing the Sun to be 0.84",
    which is quite close to the correct value 0.875".

    Sauer speculates if there are misprints in Soldner's calculation
    so that his result should be a factor of two higher, that is 1.68"
    which is quite close to Einstein's 1916 calculation 1.7".
    (With somewhat better precision GR predicts 1.75")

    If Soldner had calculated 1.68", he would be wrong.
    The Newtonian prediction is 0.875".


    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates?

    How ridiculous! :-D

    Einstein calculated the GR prediction 1.7" in 1916,
    before any measurements of the deflection was made.

    See:
    https://paulba.no/paper/Foundation_of_GR.pdf

    At the top of page 69:

    "We examine the curvature undergone by a ray of light passing
    by a mass M at the distance Δ."

    The calculation is shown on page 69 and the result is given
    at the bottom of the page:

    "According to this, a ray of light going past the sun undergoes
    a deflexion of 1.7"."

    So in 1916 nobody, including Einstein, knew what the correct
    value was, because no measurements were ever made.


    Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.

    Poor did what? Use a refraction formula to repudiate
    Eddington's measurements? If Poor had done so,
    wouldn't that have been to explain Eddington's measurements?

    But of course Poor did no such thing. See below.

    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics";

    Ah! So that's where you found the "refraction formula"! :-D

    In 1930 Poor obviously knew 'The mathematical formula,
    by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75".'

    This is the equation: Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² @
    where:
    Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
    c = speed of light in vacuum
    G = gravitational constant
    M = solar mass
    In this case Δ = R, the radius of the Sun.

    This is indeed "a well known and simple formula" and
    since it is about physics and optics (light)
    Poor called it a "formula of physical optics".

    It has nothing to do with refraction, obviously.

    Why did you think that Poor claimed it was about refraction? :-D


    "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";

    Quite right.
    Einstein's formula Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is a well known and simple formula
    of physical optics which contains nothing about time dilation
    or relativity of simultaneity.

    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -

    This was right(ish) in 1930.

    The eclipse measurements are notorious imprecise,
    and are now of historical interest only.

    Many measurement (of EM-radiation NOT grazing the Sun) are performed:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    Paul says Poor's statement that Einstein used an optics formula is
    ridiculous. Then he misconstrues, claiming this would have happened
    after the actual measurements, which is nonsense. He used the optics
    formula for his prediction.

    Yes, Poor shows he used a refraction formula.

    It is very ignorant to think that contradictory experiments that show
    Newtonian and twice Newtonian prove relativity. The experiments have
    proved nothing. Relativity is an ignorant pseudoscience comprised of
    nothing but illogical and self-contradictory baseless claims. Mercury's perihelion of relativity is based on the assumption that gravity can be
    treated as electromagnetism. According to Britannica, this is now known
    to be false because the unified field theory "failed." Galileo and
    Eotvos showed everything, regardless of the mass or the substance, is
    affected the same by gravity. Relativity has not disproved that. The
    velocity of both waves and particles includes the relative velocity of
    the observer, yet relativity irrationally denies this—pure lunacy.

    Source:
    "THE DEFLECTION OF LIGHT AS OBSERVED AT TOTAL SOLAR ECLIPSES" By CHARLES
    LANE POOR

    Poor gives an earlier paper by himself = "THE RELATIVITY DEFLECTION OF
    LIGHT" Free pdf= https://archive.org/download/sim_journal-of-the-royal-astronomical-society-of-canada_july-august-1927_21_6/sim_journal-of-the-royal-astronomical-society-of-canada_july-august-1927_21_6.pdf

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What is ridiculous is that the curving of space (reification fallacy)
    can be added to Newtonian when the curving was allegedly the explanation
    for Newtonian, making this redundant.
    Einstein: “According to the theory half of this deflection is produced
    by the Newtonian field of attraction of the sun, and the other half by
    the geometrical modification (‘curvature’) of space caused by the sun.” In this way Einstein doubled his money trumping Newton.

    Maybe Einstein got the doubling from a mistaken reading of Soldner.

    Einstein has stated that if two different forces strike you with the
    same force, the effect will be the same! Pure genius! Poor quotes
    Einstein's explanation of his equivalence principle: "'The effect of gravitation upon ideal “clocks” and “measuring rods” at rest at a given point in a gravitational field is identically the same as that caused by
    a motion of the “clock” and “rod” through free space with a velocity equal to that which they would have acquired had they fallen, under the
    action of gravitation, from infinity to that point.'"

    "THE DEFLECTION OF LIGHT AS OBSERVED AT TOTAL SOLAR ECLIPSES" By CHARLES
    LANE POOR
    "SUMMARY
    The mathematical formula, by which Einstein calculated his predicted
    deflection of 1".75
    for light rays passing the edge of the SUD, is a well known and simple
    formula of physical optics. In this formula he substituted an
    hypothetical "retardation" of light in its passage
    through a gravitational field; and this purely theoretical retardation
    is the sole new concept
    involved in the prediction. Not a single one of the fundamental concepts
    of varying time, of
    warped or twisted space, of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion
    is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for the deflection of light.
    The many and elaborate
    eclipse expeditions have, therefore, been given a fictitious importance.
    Their results can neither prove, nor disprove the relativity theory: at
    the best their results can prove that light is retarded by gravitational action, and is retarded by a certain definite amount....The radial
    components were then forced into a semblance of "exact accord with the requirements of the Einstein theory" through an assumption written into
    the methods and formulas of reduction: an assumption for which there is
    not the slightest observational evidence. In fact the only evidence available-the evidence furnished by independent check fields
    photographed on the eclipse plates-would seem to show that this basic assumption is utterly wrong.
    The actual stellar displacements, if real, do not show the slightest re~emblanceto the predicted Einstein deflections: they do not agree in direction, in size 1 or in the rate of decrease with distance from the
    sun. .. ..... "

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 03:13:02 2025
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:09, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:05, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:54, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:50, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:39, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:34, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip idiotic babbling]
    [snip more idiotic babbling


    Il faut arrêter avec ce fantasme d'arrogance qui veut que l'homme est >>>> intelligent, et qu'il a tout compris.

    Exactly. So stop doing that! Especially when your fallacies, your contradictions
    and your misconceptions have been pointed out precisely.

    :))

    It makes you smile to be an arrogant, an imbecile, an ignorant in addition to be
    a liar and a fraud?

    Fraud and arrogance are on your side. When you can't hold a line of
    reasoning for more than two minutes in basic special relativity, you don't bring it up.

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to rhertz on Tue Jan 14 04:19:33 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 1:41:44 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 0:36:33 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

    <snip>

    "This is exactly double the value given in 1911, and this doubling
    of values has given rise to many speculations, and to many and
    varied explanations, on the part of the relativists.
    An inspection of the formulas, which Einstein used, shows
    exactly what he did and how he derived this result. The essential
    factor in the formula is that for the rate of change of velocity
    along the wave-front 6c, 6x ; and this is the only factor in which
    any change can be made. All the other terms and factors of the
    formula are always identically the same." - Poor = "THE RELATIVITY
    DEFLECTION OF LIGHT!"

    Years ago, I posted that when Einstein published his 1915 paper on
    Mercury, he included a couple of paragraphs announcing that he doubled
    his 1911 value due to his work with GR.

    It's all on his 1915 paper, in a single line: Equation 7c.



    Einstein had it easy. He modified Newton's potential Φ = - GM/r for
    Φ = - GM/r (1 + B^2/r^2), in his equation (7c). This was in geometrical units.

    In physical units, Eq 7c is Φ(r) = - GMm/r [1 + B^2/(mcr)^2]

    Long story short: In the same paper, and using this change, he managed
    to obtain Gerber's formula and 43" and, as a bonus, DOUBLED the
    gravitational potential on the formula for deflection of starlight, used
    in 1911.

    ψ(1911) = 1/c2 2GM/RS = 0.85 arcsec
    ψ(1915) = 2 x ψ(1911) = 1/c2 4GM/RS = 1.75 arcsec

    The key for this "magic prediction" is simple. The extra (1 + B^2/r^2)
    factor in Φ(r), in physical units, is [1 + B^2/(mcr)^2]


    B = mr2ω is the constant angular momentum, under Newton's Law of Gravitation,

    so

    Φ(r) = - GMm/r (1 + r^2ω^2/c^2)


    He made Rs.ω = c at the perigee of the trajectory, at which the test particle has maximum speed.

    But it implies a variable speed of light, besides that "photons" have
    mass and suffer gravitational attraction.

    This is the Newtonian equation that Einstein seek, using 80% of the
    paper, before changing for a new Φ:

    m [r^2 (dɸ/dt)^2 + (dr/dt)^2] - GMm/r = 2E (E < 0, the total energy of
    the system, is CONSTANT).

    The above equations describe any elliptic, parabolic or hyperbolic
    orbit, and was used by Einstein TWICE:

    1) To get the final expression of the advance of Mercury's perihelion in
    an orbit with e = 0.2025 and E < 0.

    2) For the deflection of light, at the perigee of an hyperbolic
    trajectory of a photon, with r = Rs, e >> 1, E > 0.

    Einstein REFUSED to show his calculations for 2) and only presented the
    new value for deflection of light plus a lot of gobbledygook using GR. Astronomers and physicists from ALL OVER the world asked Einstein to
    present his calculations. Einstein NEVER delivered them.

    Why did Einstein refused to show his derivation? Because he had to
    explain:

    1) The use of light as "quanta of energy" (A.K.A. photons) having mass m
    = hf/c^2.

    2) The change of the bounded elliptic orbit of Mercury, with e = 0.2025
    into a highly eccentric hyperbolic orbit (e > 200,000), which passed by
    the Sun at its perigee (r = RS).

    3) The angular momentum at the perigee, B(RS) = m.RS.c. In this way, the quotient between brackets of ψ(RS) became equal to 1, DOUBLING the gravitational potential.

    4) Making the angular velocity of the photon at the orbit's perigee: c =
    RS. ωMAX, implied a VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT in the trajectory of the
    photon:
    c' = rω (only reaching c at r = RS).

    He had a LOT OF THINGS to explain. And because of the above points, his ETERNAL SILENCE.


    So, his announcement in 1915 came to the fact that in the modified gravitational potential

    Φ(r) = - GMm/r (1 + r^2ω^2/c^2)


    he made r.ω = c, for which Φ(r_sun) = - GMm/r_sun (1 + 1).

    Doubling the potential when starlight graze the Sun's surface DOUBLED
    the 1911 Newtonian value, AT THE COST OF A VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT IN
    THAT POINT.


    He NEVER, EVER showed his calculations. That's why, in 1930, Poor was
    calling him (LITERALLY) a fraudulent crock.
    You find the same thing with Mercury as Poor found with the eclipse.
    They just cooked it up. The "theory" of relativity makes no such
    prediction.
    "But this result, so obtained, does not represent
    the curvature of the actual path of the ray by the sun; it represents
    a fictitious curvature as measured from a moving origin of
    coordinates. Eddington’s result is neither mathematically correct, nor
    in accord with the basic assumptions of relativity in regard to
    the propagation of light. If Einstein’s assumptions be correct, that
    the actual velocities of rays passing through a given point in space
    are different, if it be true, as both Einstein and Eddington state, that
    the actual velocity of a radial ray at any point is less than
    that of a transverse ray, passing through that point, then by no
    trick of changing origins of coordinates, by no possible mathematical
    means, can these two different velocities be made the same.
    From all this it would appear to be clear that Einstein made an
    error in mathematical computation, when in his “Foundation of
    the General Theory of Relativity” he gave the figure 1”.70 for the...."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to rhertz on Tue Jan 14 04:48:51 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 1:41:44 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 0:36:33 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

    <snip>

    "This is exactly double the value given in 1911, and this doubling
    of values has given rise to many speculations, and to many and
    varied explanations, on the part of the relativists.
    An inspection of the formulas, which Einstein used, shows
    exactly what he did and how he derived this result. The essential
    factor in the formula is that for the rate of change of velocity
    along the wave-front 6c, 6x ; and this is the only factor in which
    any change can be made. All the other terms and factors of the
    formula are always identically the same." - Poor = "THE RELATIVITY
    DEFLECTION OF LIGHT!"

    Years ago, I posted that when Einstein published his 1915 paper on
    Mercury, he included a couple of paragraphs announcing that he doubled
    his 1911 value due to his work with GR.

    It's all on his 1915 paper, in a single line: Equation 7c.



    Einstein had it easy. He modified Newton's potential Φ = - GM/r for
    Φ = - GM/r (1 + B^2/r^2), in his equation (7c). This was in geometrical units.

    In physical units, Eq 7c is Φ(r) = - GMm/r [1 + B^2/(mcr)^2]

    Long story short: In the same paper, and using this change, he managed
    to obtain Gerber's formula and 43" and, as a bonus, DOUBLED the
    gravitational potential on the formula for deflection of starlight, used
    in 1911.

    ψ(1911) = 1/c2 2GM/RS = 0.85 arcsec
    ψ(1915) = 2 x ψ(1911) = 1/c2 4GM/RS = 1.75 arcsec

    The key for this "magic prediction" is simple. The extra (1 + B^2/r^2)
    factor in Φ(r), in physical units, is [1 + B^2/(mcr)^2]


    B = mr2ω is the constant angular momentum, under Newton's Law of Gravitation,

    so

    Φ(r) = - GMm/r (1 + r^2ω^2/c^2)


    He made Rs.ω = c at the perigee of the trajectory, at which the test particle has maximum speed.

    But it implies a variable speed of light, besides that "photons" have
    mass and suffer gravitational attraction.

    This is the Newtonian equation that Einstein seek, using 80% of the
    paper, before changing for a new Φ:

    m [r^2 (dɸ/dt)^2 + (dr/dt)^2] - GMm/r = 2E (E < 0, the total energy of
    the system, is CONSTANT).

    The above equations describe any elliptic, parabolic or hyperbolic
    orbit, and was used by Einstein TWICE:

    1) To get the final expression of the advance of Mercury's perihelion in
    an orbit with e = 0.2025 and E < 0.

    2) For the deflection of light, at the perigee of an hyperbolic
    trajectory of a photon, with r = Rs, e >> 1, E > 0.

    Einstein REFUSED to show his calculations for 2) and only presented the
    new value for deflection of light plus a lot of gobbledygook using GR. Astronomers and physicists from ALL OVER the world asked Einstein to
    present his calculations. Einstein NEVER delivered them.

    Why did Einstein refused to show his derivation? Because he had to
    explain:

    1) The use of light as "quanta of energy" (A.K.A. photons) having mass m
    = hf/c^2.

    2) The change of the bounded elliptic orbit of Mercury, with e = 0.2025
    into a highly eccentric hyperbolic orbit (e > 200,000), which passed by
    the Sun at its perigee (r = RS).

    3) The angular momentum at the perigee, B(RS) = m.RS.c. In this way, the quotient between brackets of ψ(RS) became equal to 1, DOUBLING the gravitational potential.

    4) Making the angular velocity of the photon at the orbit's perigee: c =
    RS. ωMAX, implied a VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT in the trajectory of the
    photon:
    c' = rω (only reaching c at r = RS).

    He had a LOT OF THINGS to explain. And because of the above points, his ETERNAL SILENCE.


    So, his announcement in 1915 came to the fact that in the modified gravitational potential

    Φ(r) = - GMm/r (1 + r^2ω^2/c^2)


    he made r.ω = c, for which Φ(r_sun) = - GMm/r_sun (1 + 1).

    Doubling the potential when starlight graze the Sun's surface DOUBLED
    the 1911 Newtonian value, AT THE COST OF A VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT IN
    THAT POINT.


    He NEVER, EVER showed his calculations. That's why, in 1930, Poor was
    calling him (LITERALLY) a fraudulent crock.
    Here is a response to Poor's 1926 article in 1929: THE RELATIVITY
    DEFLECTION OF LIGHT By Robert J. Trumpler

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to rhertz on Tue Jan 14 05:01:11 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 1:41:44 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 0:36:33 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

    <snip>

    "This is exactly double the value given in 1911, and this doubling
    of values has given rise to many speculations, and to many and
    varied explanations, on the part of the relativists.
    An inspection of the formulas, which Einstein used, shows
    exactly what he did and how he derived this result. The essential
    factor in the formula is that for the rate of change of velocity
    along the wave-front 6c, 6x ; and this is the only factor in which
    any change can be made. All the other terms and factors of the
    formula are always identically the same." - Poor = "THE RELATIVITY
    DEFLECTION OF LIGHT!"

    Years ago, I posted that when Einstein published his 1915 paper on
    Mercury, he included a couple of paragraphs announcing that he doubled
    his 1911 value due to his work with GR.

    It's all on his 1915 paper, in a single line: Equation 7c.



    Einstein had it easy. He modified Newton's potential Φ = - GM/r for
    Φ = - GM/r (1 + B^2/r^2), in his equation (7c). This was in geometrical units.

    In physical units, Eq 7c is Φ(r) = - GMm/r [1 + B^2/(mcr)^2]

    Long story short: In the same paper, and using this change, he managed
    to obtain Gerber's formula and 43" and, as a bonus, DOUBLED the
    gravitational potential on the formula for deflection of starlight, used
    in 1911.

    ψ(1911) = 1/c2 2GM/RS = 0.85 arcsec
    ψ(1915) = 2 x ψ(1911) = 1/c2 4GM/RS = 1.75 arcsec

    The key for this "magic prediction" is simple. The extra (1 + B^2/r^2)
    factor in Φ(r), in physical units, is [1 + B^2/(mcr)^2]


    B = mr2ω is the constant angular momentum, under Newton's Law of Gravitation,

    so

    Φ(r) = - GMm/r (1 + r^2ω^2/c^2)


    He made Rs.ω = c at the perigee of the trajectory, at which the test particle has maximum speed.

    But it implies a variable speed of light, besides that "photons" have
    mass and suffer gravitational attraction.

    This is the Newtonian equation that Einstein seek, using 80% of the
    paper, before changing for a new Φ:

    m [r^2 (dɸ/dt)^2 + (dr/dt)^2] - GMm/r = 2E (E < 0, the total energy of
    the system, is CONSTANT).

    The above equations describe any elliptic, parabolic or hyperbolic
    orbit, and was used by Einstein TWICE:

    1) To get the final expression of the advance of Mercury's perihelion in
    an orbit with e = 0.2025 and E < 0.

    2) For the deflection of light, at the perigee of an hyperbolic
    trajectory of a photon, with r = Rs, e >> 1, E > 0.

    Einstein REFUSED to show his calculations for 2) and only presented the
    new value for deflection of light plus a lot of gobbledygook using GR. Astronomers and physicists from ALL OVER the world asked Einstein to
    present his calculations. Einstein NEVER delivered them.

    Why did Einstein refused to show his derivation? Because he had to
    explain:

    1) The use of light as "quanta of energy" (A.K.A. photons) having mass m
    = hf/c^2.

    2) The change of the bounded elliptic orbit of Mercury, with e = 0.2025
    into a highly eccentric hyperbolic orbit (e > 200,000), which passed by
    the Sun at its perigee (r = RS).

    3) The angular momentum at the perigee, B(RS) = m.RS.c. In this way, the quotient between brackets of ψ(RS) became equal to 1, DOUBLING the gravitational potential.

    4) Making the angular velocity of the photon at the orbit's perigee: c =
    RS. ωMAX, implied a VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT in the trajectory of the
    photon:
    c' = rω (only reaching c at r = RS).

    He had a LOT OF THINGS to explain. And because of the above points, his ETERNAL SILENCE.


    So, his announcement in 1915 came to the fact that in the modified gravitational potential

    Φ(r) = - GMm/r (1 + r^2ω^2/c^2)


    he made r.ω = c, for which Φ(r_sun) = - GMm/r_sun (1 + 1).

    Doubling the potential when starlight graze the Sun's surface DOUBLED
    the 1911 Newtonian value, AT THE COST OF A VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT IN
    THAT POINT.


    He NEVER, EVER showed his calculations. That's why, in 1930, Poor was
    calling him (LITERALLY) a fraudulent crock.
    Then there is "Albert Einstein and the Doubling of the Deflection of
    Light" by Jean‑Marc Ginoux. He says, "Thus, it appears that Einstein’s computation of the value of deflection of a light ray performed in 1915
    led him to twice the amount derived in his 1911 paper.
    Where does this doubling come from? How did Einstein justify it?
    In fact, contrary to what Arvid Reuterdahl (see Sect. 2) claimed,
    Einstein has really
    “taken the world into his confidence concerning the reason of this
    change”. Indeed, as
    early as 1915, Einstein wrote:
    “By use of the Huygens principle, one finds through a simple
    calculation, that a
    light ray from the Sun at distance 훥 undergoes an angular deflection of magnitude 2훼∕훥, while the earlier calculation had given the value 훼∕훥. A
    corresponding light ray from the surface rim of the Sun should give a
    deviation of 1.7”
    (instead of 0.85”) (Einstein 1915a).”
    In 1920, in the appendix 3 of the third edition of his book written in
    1916, he
    explained:
    “As a result of this theory, we should expect that a ray of light which
    is passing
    close to a heavenly body would be deviated towards the latter. For a ray
    of light
    which passes the sun at a distance of 훥 sun-radii from its centre, the
    angle of
    deflection (훼) should amount to
    It may be added that, according to the theory, half of this deflection
    is produced by
    the Newtonian field of attraction of the sun, and the other half by the geometrical
    modification (“curvature”) of space caused by the sun (Einstein 1920).”" HOWEVER, POOR WAS ADDRESSING EXACTLY THIS: "The Huygens–Fresnel
    principle states that every point on a wavefront is itself the source of spherical wavelets, and the secondary wavelets emanating from different
    points mutually interfere. The sum of these spherical wavelets forms a
    new wavefront. Wikipedia"
    The use of Huygens principle treats light as a wave so it deals with
    refraction not gravity. Huygens cannot be used to multiply the
    gravitational effect which relies on assuming light is a particle.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 05:17:30 2025
    By using Huygens's principle, he combined the wave and particle models
    to double the deflection.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to Richard Hachel on Tue Jan 14 09:10:01 2025
    On 2025-01-13 19:58:36 +0000, Richard Hachel said:

    Le 13/01/2025 � 20:35, Python a �crit :
    Le 13/01/2025 � 20:28, Richard Hachel a �crit :
    ...

    Rien � voir avec des Leibniz, des Poincar�, des De Gaulle, des Gauss...

    You are a joke, a bad disgusting, stinking joke

    C'est faux, j'ai demand� � Maciej si quelqu'un �tait "stinking" ici,
    il a dit oui, mais que c'�tait pas moi.

    Are you so far gone in your craziness that you regard Wozzie as an
    authority (on anything)?

    --
    Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
    in England until 1987.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 10:25:06 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 04:13, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:09, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:05, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:54, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:50, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:39, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:34, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip idiotic babbling]
    [snip more idiotic babbling


    Il faut arrêter avec ce fantasme d'arrogance qui veut que l'homme est >>>>> intelligent, et qu'il a tout compris.

    Exactly. So stop doing that! Especially when your fallacies, your contradictions
    and your misconceptions have been pointed out precisely.

    :))

    It makes you smile to be an arrogant, an imbecile, an ignorant in addition to be
    a liar and a fraud?

    Fraud and arrogance are on your side. When you can't hold a line of reasoning for more than two minutes in basic special relativity, you don't bring it up.

    R.H.

    Again, you are describing yourself. For decades you've shown that you do
    not understand at all what synchronization is about, for instance. And you still don't. This is a fact.

    Even in face of a program demonstrating that you are wrong (https://noedge.net/e) you persist. This is adding dishonesty to
    stupidity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 10:23:13 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 00:14, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 23:14, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 23:13, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:58, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons:


    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in >>>>>>>> the a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    Nope. As said - either a lie or a delusion.
    Both typical for a relativistic idiot in general
    and for you especially.


    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his,  physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    Of course they are, they're consequences
    of the physics of your idiot guru.



    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly

    Nope, I've got some utterly ridiculous
    assertions, extremly stupid even considering
    the usual level of the Shit's worshippers.
    Well,  nothing more was ever expected, of
    course. It's changing nothing, the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent,
    it's been proven and a fanatic piece of shit
    screaming "NOOOOO!!!" spitting and slandering is
    changing nothing. Sorry.

    If it were a proof how come nobody but you recognizes it as such?

    Nobody is expecting a bunch of
    fanatic idiots to recognize and accept
    a proof that their divine guru was just
    a mumbling crazie.
    Expecting something like that from
    a bunch of brainwashed fanatics wouldn't
    be wise, would it?

    A proof is a human production, right? As long as an alleged one is not considered valid by a significant community outside of its author it is
    not a proof.

    There are not a single person on Earth, so far, that has publicly
    considered your "work" as a valid proof, right? As far as I can say ALL
    people who have expressed a judgement on your "work" consider it as
    completely asinine.

    You can insult people, it doesn't change the fact that what you have
    nothing like a proof. Not even remotely. You don't even try seriously to convince people.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 10:52:21 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 11:25, Python a écrit :
    Le 14/01/2025 à 04:13, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:09, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:05, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:54, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:50, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:39, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:34, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip idiotic babbling]
    [snip more idiotic babbling


    Il faut arrêter avec ce fantasme d'arrogance qui veut que l'homme est >>>>>> intelligent, et qu'il a tout compris.

    Exactly. So stop doing that! Especially when your fallacies, your contradictions
    and your misconceptions have been pointed out precisely.

    :))

    It makes you smile to be an arrogant, an imbecile, an ignorant in addition to be
    a liar and a fraud?

    Fraud and arrogance are on your side. When you can't hold a line of reasoning
    for more than two minutes in basic special relativity, you don't bring it up.

    R.H.

    Again, you are describing yourself. For decades you've shown that you do not understand at all what synchronization is about, for instance. And you still don't. This is a fact.

    Even in face of a program demonstrating that you are wrong (https://noedge.net/e) you persist. This is adding dishonesty to stupidity.

    But you are unable to understand what a synchronization procedure is, nor
    why, in the universe, the only coherent practice consists in finding a
    virtual, abstract synchronization of type M as I explained in my pdf.
    As you are unable to understand what an apparent speed is, and even more, because there, it will be necessary to inject you with a lot of neurons,
    what the relativistic elasticity of distances, lengths and times is,
    because you are in a pathetic dilation of times and an equally pathetic contraction of lengths.
    The Minkowskian static block, a sort of imbecile concrete block in four dimensions, has really harmed the intelligence of things.

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 12:11:53 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 11:23, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 00:14, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 23:14, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 23:13, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:58, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons: >>>>>>>>>>

    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in >>>>>>>>> the a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    Nope. As said - either a lie or a delusion.
    Both typical for a relativistic idiot in general
    and for you especially.


    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his,  physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    Of course they are, they're consequences
    of the physics of your idiot guru.



    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly

    Nope, I've got some utterly ridiculous
    assertions, extremly stupid even considering
    the usual level of the Shit's worshippers.
    Well,  nothing more was ever expected, of
    course. It's changing nothing, the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent,
    it's been proven and a fanatic piece of shit
    screaming "NOOOOO!!!" spitting and slandering is
    changing nothing. Sorry.

    If it were a proof how come nobody but you recognizes it as such?

    Nobody is expecting a bunch of
    fanatic idiots to recognize and accept
    a proof that their divine guru was just
    a mumbling crazie.
    Expecting something like that from
    a bunch of brainwashed fanatics wouldn't
    be wise, would it?

    A proof is a human production, right? As long as an alleged one is not considered valid by a significant community outside of its author it is
    not a proof.

    Sorry, poor stinker - pointing 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of
    your idiot guru is a proof of its inconsistency.
    No matter whether you and your fellow trash
    are accepting it or not.


    You can insult people, it doesn't change the fact that what you have
    nothing like a proof.

    You can insult people, it doesn't change the
    fact that I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of your
    idiot guru. I.e - I've demonstrated a proof
    of its inconsistency.
    Now - go fuck yourself with your pseudophilosophy.
    It's as worthless as The Shit of your idiot guru.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 12:17:44 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 11:52, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 14/01/2025 à 11:25, Python a écrit :
    Le 14/01/2025 à 04:13, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:09, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:05, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:54, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:50, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:39, Python a écrit :
    Le 13/01/2025 à 21:34, Richard Hachel a écrit :
    [snip idiotic babbling]
    [snip more idiotic babbling


    Il faut arrêter avec ce fantasme d'arrogance qui veut que l'homme est >>>>>>> intelligent, et qu'il a tout compris.

    Exactly. So stop doing that! Especially when your fallacies, your contradictions
    and your misconceptions have been pointed out precisely.

    :))

    It makes you smile to be an arrogant, an imbecile, an ignorant in addition to be
    a liar and a fraud?

    Fraud and arrogance are on your side. When you can't hold a line of reasoning
    for more than two minutes in basic special relativity, you don't bring it up.

    R.H.

    Again, you are describing yourself. For decades you've shown that you do not >> understand at all what synchronization is about, for instance. And you still don't.
    This is a fact.

    Even in face of a program demonstrating that you are wrong
    (https://noedge.net/e) you persist. This is adding dishonesty to stupidity.

    But you are unable to understand what a synchronization procedure is, nor why,
    in the universe, the only coherent practice consists in finding a virtual, abstract synchronization of type M as I explained in my pdf.

    You don't "explain" anything, you only claim. And you are wrong, and I demonstrated that you are wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 13:22:05 2025
    Den 13.01.2025 21:05, skrev J. J. Lodder:
    Paul.B.Andersen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Den 13.01.2025 06:07, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates?

    I interpreted this as that Einstein somehow had "fixed"
    the predictions of GR to be in accordance with measurements
    shown on some photographic plates.

    In other words, LaurenceClarkCrossen claim that Einstein
    knew what the GR prediction should be to be in accordance
    with measurements.


    How ridiculous! :-D

    Einstein calculated the GR prediction 1.7" in 1916,
    before any measurements of the deflection was made.

    See:
    https://paulba.no/paper/Foundation_of_GR.pdf

    At the top of page 69:

    "We examine the curvature undergone by a ray of light passing
    by a mass M at the distance ?."

    The calculation is shown on page 69 and the result is given
    at the bottom of the page:

    "According to this, a ray of light going past the sun undergoes
    a deflexion of 1.7"."

    So in 1916 nobody, including Einstein, knew what the correct
    value was, because no measurements were ever made.

    Here I meant "correct" as "in accordance with measurements".


    But it is a matter of record that Hilbert complimented Einstein
    on the rapidity and cleverness with which he had derived
    the correct value for the deflection of starlight
    from the equations of general relativity.
    (if only I could calculate like you...)
    Hilbert certainly did not see any error in it or he would have said so.
    Not surprising of course, because there isnt any.


    I expressed myself a bit clumsy.
    Of course Einstein gave the correct GR prediction.

    But nobody had at the time made any measurements,
    so nobody knew if the predictions of GR would be in accordance
    with measurements.

    Point being that LaurenceClarkCrossen's claim that Einstein
    had "cooked" the GR prediction is nonsense.


    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 12:16:26 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 12:11, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 11:23, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 00:14, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 23:14, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 23:13, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:58, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons: >>>>>>>>>>>

    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you in >>>>>>>>>> the a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    Nope. As said - either a lie or a delusion.
    Both typical for a relativistic idiot in general
    and for you especially.


    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his,  physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    Of course they are, they're consequences
    of the physics of your idiot guru.



    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly

    Nope, I've got some utterly ridiculous
    assertions, extremly stupid even considering
    the usual level of the Shit's worshippers.
    Well,  nothing more was ever expected, of
    course. It's changing nothing, the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent,
    it's been proven and a fanatic piece of shit
    screaming "NOOOOO!!!" spitting and slandering is
    changing nothing. Sorry.

    If it were a proof how come nobody but you recognizes it as such?

    Nobody is expecting a bunch of
    fanatic idiots to recognize and accept
    a proof that their divine guru was just
    a mumbling crazie.
    Expecting something like that from
    a bunch of brainwashed fanatics wouldn't
    be wise, would it?

    A proof is a human production, right? As long as an alleged one is not
    considered valid by a significant community outside of its author it is
    not a proof.

    Sorry, poor stinker - pointing 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of
    your idiot guru is a proof of its inconsistency.
    No matter whether you and your fellow trash
    are accepting it or not.


    You can insult people, it doesn't change the fact that what you have
    nothing like a proof.

    You can insult people, it doesn't change the
    fact that I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of your
    idiot guru. I.e - I've demonstrated a proof
    of its inconsistency.
    Now - go fuck yourself with your pseudophilosophy.
    It's as worthless as The Shit of your idiot guru.

    Just because *you* say so? Come on!

    You have demonstrated nothing.

    And are just a demented ranting kook lost in the middle of nowhere.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 13:34:28 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 13:19, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :

    I interpreted this as that Einstein somehow had "fixed"
    the predictions of GR to be in accordance with measurements
    shown on some photographic plates.

    In other words, LaurenceClarkCrossen claim that Einstein
    knew what the GR prediction should be to be in accordance
    with measurements.

    This is exactly what happened.
    There were two eclipses in 1917, and very strangely, there was no
    photograph of the first one "the weather was very nice, but it clouded
    over just at the time of the eclipse". However, if the pictures had been
    taken, we would have realized that Einstein was wrong because his
    predictions of the deviation were half as much.
    In the meantime (this is very strange) Einstein will correct his
    calculations, and bingo!
    During the second eclipse, we can take the photographs, and we fall right
    on Einstein's predictions.
    From there to thinking that the scientists warned Einstein that the
    deviation was incorrect, and that he had to redo the calculations to find
    a double deflection, there is only one step.
    We cannot prove it, but it still smells like a very probable intellectual
    scam.

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 13:24:16 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 13:17, Python a écrit :
    Le 14/01/2025 à 11:52, Richard Hachel a écrit :

    I demonstrated that you are wrong.

    :))

    Tu aurais du postuler au petit théâtre de Bouvard.

    Rien de ce que je dis ne peut être pris en faute théorique, ni expérimentale.

    Les théoriciens sont une merde épouvantable quand je leur expose la
    paradoxe de Langevin, le paradoxe d'Andromède et le paradoxe d'Ehrenfert,
    il ne savent pas répondre là où je leur propose une théorie complète
    d'une grande beauté conceptuelle et d'une logique claire.

    Les expérimentateurs ne peuvent pas expliquer des transferts instantanés d'informations.

    Toi même n'a toujours pas compris comment je considérais la notion de
    vitesse apparente en RR, et le fait que si l'angle est constant alors le rapport temps propre/temps apparent est constant.

    Comme tu n'as toujours pas compris pourquoi le fait de dire :
    "Si deux mobiles, l'un en mouvement accéléré uniforme, l'autre en
    mouvement galiléen uniforme départ arrêté, traversent des distances
    égales en des temp observables égaux leurs temps propres seront égaux".

    Tu penses incroyable que des physiciens puissent avoir bâti une
    géométrie abstraite qui ne correspond pas réellement à la structure relative de l'espace et du temps.

    Il faudrait quand même que, de temps en temps, on sache écouter ce que d'autres peuvent dire.

    Je rappelle que je ne dis pas que la théorie de la relativité restreinte
    est fausse, mais que la moitié des équations écrites à la va-vite
    depuis Poincaré (dont la mathématique était ultra-correcte) sont
    fausses et mal comprises.

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 16:09:17 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 13:16, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 12:11, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 11:23, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 00:14, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 23:14, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 23:13, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:58, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons: >>>>>>>>>>>>

    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you >>>>>>>>>>> in the a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    Nope. As said - either a lie or a delusion.
    Both typical for a relativistic idiot in general
    and for you especially.


    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his,  physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    Of course they are, they're consequences
    of the physics of your idiot guru.



    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly >>>>>>
    Nope, I've got some utterly ridiculous
    assertions, extremly stupid even considering
    the usual level of the Shit's worshippers.
    Well,  nothing more was ever expected, of
    course. It's changing nothing, the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent,
    it's been proven and a fanatic piece of shit
    screaming "NOOOOO!!!" spitting and slandering is
    changing nothing. Sorry.

    If it were a proof how come nobody but you recognizes it as such?

    Nobody is expecting a bunch of
    fanatic idiots to recognize and accept
    a proof that their divine guru was just
    a mumbling crazie.
    Expecting something like that from
    a bunch of brainwashed fanatics wouldn't
    be wise, would it?

    A proof is a human production, right? As long as an alleged one is
    not considered valid by a significant community outside of its author
    it is not a proof.

    Sorry, poor stinker - pointing 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of
    your idiot guru is a proof of its inconsistency.
    No matter whether you and your fellow trash
    are accepting it or not.


    You can insult people, it doesn't change the fact that what you have
    nothing like a proof.

    You can insult people, it doesn't change the
    fact that I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of your
    idiot guru. I.e - I've demonstrated a proof
    of its inconsistency.
    Now - go fuck yourself with your pseudophilosophy.
    It's as worthless as The Shit of your idiot guru.

    Just because *you* say so? Come on!


    Because I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of
    your idiot guru - and the ONLY answer
    from you and your fellow idiots is
    just some mad ravings.
    Not that it's any surprise considering
    who you are and what your church is.


    You have demonstrated nothing.

    Just because *you* say so? Come on, poor
    stinker.

    And are just a demented ranting kook lost in the middle of nowhere.


    See, poor stinker - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it
    apart of spitting, insulting and slandering.
    And you're just doing what you can for your beloved
    Shit and your beloved church.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 15:14:51 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:09, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 13:16, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 12:11, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 11:23, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 00:14, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 23:14, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 23:13, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:58, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons: >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked you >>>>>>>>>>>> in the a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    Nope. As said - either a lie or a delusion.
    Both typical for a relativistic idiot in general
    and for you especially.


    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it

    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like.


    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his,  physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    Of course they are, they're consequences
    of the physics of your idiot guru.



    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly >>>>>>>
    Nope, I've got some utterly ridiculous
    assertions, extremly stupid even considering
    the usual level of the Shit's worshippers.
    Well,  nothing more was ever expected, of
    course. It's changing nothing, the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent,
    it's been proven and a fanatic piece of shit
    screaming "NOOOOO!!!" spitting and slandering is
    changing nothing. Sorry.

    If it were a proof how come nobody but you recognizes it as such?

    Nobody is expecting a bunch of
    fanatic idiots to recognize and accept
    a proof that their divine guru was just
    a mumbling crazie.
    Expecting something like that from
    a bunch of brainwashed fanatics wouldn't
    be wise, would it?

    A proof is a human production, right? As long as an alleged one is
    not considered valid by a significant community outside of its author
    it is not a proof.

    Sorry, poor stinker - pointing 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of
    your idiot guru is a proof of its inconsistency.
    No matter whether you and your fellow trash
    are accepting it or not.


    You can insult people, it doesn't change the fact that what you have
    nothing like a proof.

    You can insult people, it doesn't change the
    fact that I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of your
    idiot guru. I.e - I've demonstrated a proof
    of its inconsistency.
    Now - go fuck yourself with your pseudophilosophy.
    It's as worthless as The Shit of your idiot guru.

    Just because *you* say so? Come on!


    Because I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of
    your idiot guru - and the ONLY answer
    from you and your fellow idiots is
    just some mad ravings.
    Not that it's any surprise considering
    who you are and what your church is.


    You have demonstrated nothing.

    Just because *you* say so? Come on, poor
    stinker.

    And are just a demented ranting kook lost in the middle of nowhere.


    See, poor stinker - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it
    apart of spitting, insulting and slandering.
    And you're just doing what you can for your beloved
    Shit and your beloved church.

    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither here nor elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 15:49:09 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:42, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither here nor
    elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    Again - a fanatic idiot can never be convinced
    that he is a fanatic idiot, no surprise in
    that.

    All of Humanity but Maciej Wozniak are "fanatic idiots"? You need medical
    help, Maciej.

    And as for rants - they are all yours. I've
    pointed directly 2 denying themself predictions of
    the physics of your idiot guru, i.e. provided
    a proof of its inconsistency.

    Again, your alleged "proofs" have been refuted with meaningful arguments.
    As most cranks you too stupid and too stubborn to admit it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 16:42:51 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 16:14, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:09, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 13:16, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 12:11, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 11:23, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 00:14, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 23:14, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 23:13, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:58, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 13.01.2025 o 22:40, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 22:33, Demented maniac, Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 20:47, Idiotic kook Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>>>> W dniu 13.01.2025 o 20:31, Python pisze:
    ..
    Einstein deserved the Nobel Prize for *numerous* reasons: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Whatever you say - Poincare had enough wit
    to understand how idiotic rejecting Euclid
    would be, and he has written it clearly
    enough for anyone able to read

    Even you admitted that Poincaré would likely have kicked >>>>>>>>>>>>> you in the a**

    Wozniak.


    No, I didn't. A lie as usual.

    You did. Amnesia now?

    No, I didn't As you insist - maybe it's
    rather a delusion than a lie. Woll, both
    very possible.

    Anyway you did.

    Nope. As said - either a lie or a delusion.
    Both typical for a relativistic idiot in general
    and for you especially.


    See,  - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it >>>>>>>>>>>
    There is nothing to do as you've never done anything like. >>>>>>>>>>

    Yes, I did, I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of his,  physics.

    You didn't, they're laughable nonsense.

    Of course they are, they're consequences
    of the physics of your idiot guru.



    Only you were screaming. You got precise refutations of you silly >>>>>>>>
    Nope, I've got some utterly ridiculous
    assertions, extremly stupid even considering
    the usual level of the Shit's worshippers.
    Well,  nothing more was ever expected, of
    course. It's changing nothing, the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent,
    it's been proven and a fanatic piece of shit
    screaming "NOOOOO!!!" spitting and slandering is
    changing nothing. Sorry.

    If it were a proof how come nobody but you recognizes it as such? >>>>>>
    Nobody is expecting a bunch of
    fanatic idiots to recognize and accept
    a proof that their divine guru was just
    a mumbling crazie.
    Expecting something like that from
    a bunch of brainwashed fanatics wouldn't
    be wise, would it?

    A proof is a human production, right? As long as an alleged one is
    not considered valid by a significant community outside of its
    author it is not a proof.

    Sorry, poor stinker - pointing 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of
    your idiot guru is a proof of its inconsistency.
    No matter whether you and your fellow trash
    are accepting it or not.


    You can insult people, it doesn't change the fact that what you
    have nothing like a proof.

    You can insult people, it doesn't change the
    fact that I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of your
    idiot guru. I.e - I've demonstrated a proof
    of its inconsistency.
    Now - go fuck yourself with your pseudophilosophy.
    It's as worthless as The Shit of your idiot guru.

    Just because *you* say so? Come on!


    Because I've pointed directly 2 denying
    themself predictions of the physics of
    your idiot guru - and the ONLY answer
    from you and your fellow idiots is
    just some mad ravings.
    Not that it's any surprise considering
    who you are and what your church is.


    You have demonstrated nothing.

    Just because *you* say so? Come on, poor
    stinker.

    And are just a demented ranting kook lost in the middle of nowhere.


    See, poor stinker - I've proven the mumble of your idiot
    guru to be inconsistent, and you can do nothing about it
    apart of spitting, insulting and slandering.
    And you're just doing what you can for your beloved
    Shit and your beloved church.

    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither here nor elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    Again - a fanatic idiot can never be convinced
    that he is a fanatic idiot, no surprise in
    that.
    And as for rants - they are all yours. I've
    pointed directly 2 denying themself predictions of
    the physics of your idiot guru, i.e. provided
    a proof of its inconsistency.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 17:51:42 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 16:49, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:42, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither here
    nor elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    Again - a fanatic idiot can never be convinced
    that he is a fanatic idiot, no surprise in
    that.

    All of Humanity but Maciej Wozniak are "fanatic idiots"? You need > medical help, Maciej.

    Al of humanity comes for discussing on a
    physics newsgroup? You need medical help,
    Python.




    And as for rants - they are all yours. I've
    pointed directly 2 denying themself predictions of
    the physics of your idiot guru, i.e. provided
    a proof of its inconsistency.

    Again, your alleged "proofs" have been refuted with meaningful
    arguments

    Both refutation an meaningful arguments are,
    unfortunately, just some delusion of yours.
    Samely as being "all of humanity".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 18:52:38 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 18:23, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 17:51, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 16:49, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:42, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither here
    nor elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    Again - a fanatic idiot can never be convinced
    that he is a fanatic idiot, no surprise in
    that.

    All of Humanity but Maciej Wozniak are "fanatic idiots"? You need >
    medical help, Maciej.

    Al of humanity comes for  discussing on a
    physics newsgroup? You need medical help,
    Python.

    Did you ever confront your "proofs" to anyone outside of here?

    I confront it with people here and
    I can see that apart of spitting,
    slandering and desperately dodging
    questions they can do exactly nothing
    to it. So, sorry, it is good.


    Did you ever asked yourself, given how short and simple are your
    "proofs", why NOBODY has proposed your arguments as "proofs" that SR was inconsitent?


    That is a simple one. You're selling your
    idiocies as a voice of Nature Herself,
    somehow magically independent on mere
    human made definitions. Don't you?
    Somehow, people buy this mystical crap
    - they trust you. Happens.



    Both refutation an meaningful arguments are,
    unfortunately, just some delusion of yours.
    Samely as being "all of humanity".

    Did you ever consider that, maybe, maybe you are too stupid and/or too stubborn to seriously consider these arguments?

    No. Do you?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 17:23:59 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 17:51, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 16:49, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:42, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither here
    nor elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    Again - a fanatic idiot can never be convinced
    that he is a fanatic idiot, no surprise in
    that.

    All of Humanity but Maciej Wozniak are "fanatic idiots"? You need > medical >> help, Maciej.

    Al of humanity comes for discussing on a
    physics newsgroup? You need medical help,
    Python.

    Did you ever confront your "proofs" to anyone outside of here? If so
    where? To what people?

    Did ever even ONCE a human being has considered any of your "proofs" as
    valid?

    Did you ever asked yourself, given how short and simple are your "proofs",
    why NOBODY has proposed your arguments as "proofs" that SR was
    inconsitent?

    And as for rants - they are all yours. I've
    pointed directly 2 denying themself predictions of
    the physics of your idiot guru, i.e. provided
    a proof of its inconsistency.

    Again, your alleged "proofs" have been refuted with meaningful
    arguments

    Both refutation an meaningful arguments are,
    unfortunately, just some delusion of yours.
    Samely as being "all of humanity".

    Did you ever consider that, maybe, maybe you are too stupid and/or too
    stubborn to seriously consider these arguments?

    Have you heard about Andrew Wiles proof of Fermat theorem in the 90x? Do
    you have the expertise to evaluate the validity of this alleged proof? Do
    you think that this alleged proof is valid (considering that it has been reviewed and revised afterward)?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 18:02:26 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 18:52, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 18:23, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 17:51, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 16:49, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:42, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither here >>>>>> nor elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    Again - a fanatic idiot can never be convinced
    that he is a fanatic idiot, no surprise in
    that.

    All of Humanity but Maciej Wozniak are "fanatic idiots"? You need >
    medical help, Maciej.

    Al of humanity comes for  discussing on a
    physics newsgroup? You need medical help,
    Python.

    Did you ever confront your "proofs" to anyone outside of here?

    I confront it with people here and
    I can see that apart of spitting,
    slandering and desperately dodging
    questions they can do exactly nothing
    to it. So, sorry, it is good.

    No answer? Did you ever confront your "proofs" to anyone outside of here?

    Did you ever asked yourself, given how short and simple are your
    "proofs", why NOBODY has proposed your arguments as "proofs" that SR was
    inconsistent?

    Still no answer.

    That is a simple one. You're selling your
    idiocies as a voice of Nature Herself,

    Nope.

    somehow magically independent on mere
    human made definitions. Don't you?

    I don't.

    Somehow, people buy this mystical crap

    Nothing mystical at all. You're fantasizing. As usual.

    - they trust you. Happens.

    Still no answer again. And still you consider all of Humanity since
    Einstein (and since Newton/Galileo too) as idiots compared to you, a
    random wannabee engineer whining and ranting from an asylum in Poland.
    Come on!

    Don't you feel how unrealistic this is? This is the reason I suggest that
    you seek for medical help. You suffer from delusion or grandeur.

    Both refutation an meaningful arguments are,
    unfortunately, just some delusion of yours.
    Samely as being "all of humanity".

    Did you ever consider that, maybe, maybe you are too stupid and/or too
    stubborn to seriously consider these arguments?

    No. Do you?

    I did. As an engineer (a real one, not a wannabee as you) I concluded that
    your argument are utterly asinine and tried to explain you how and why.
    Again definitely not "screaming NOOO!" which is what YOU are doing.

    No answer to this either:

    Have you heard about Andrew Wiles proof of Fermat theorem in the 90x? Do
    you have the expertise to evaluate the validity of this alleged proof? Do
    you think that this alleged proof is valid (considering that it has been reviewed and revised afterward)?

    How come? Aren't you "one the best logician Humanity ever had"? (you still
    owe me a keyboard btw)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 19:39:37 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 19:02, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 18:52, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 18:23, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 17:51, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 16:49, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:42, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither
    here nor elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    Again - a fanatic idiot can never be convinced
    that he is a fanatic idiot, no surprise in
    that.

    All of Humanity but Maciej Wozniak are "fanatic idiots"? You need >
    medical help, Maciej.

    Al of humanity comes for  discussing on a
    physics newsgroup? You need medical help,
    Python.

    Did you ever confront your "proofs" to anyone outside of here?

    I confront it with people here and
    I can see that apart of spitting,
    slandering and desperately dodging
    questions they can do exactly nothing
    to it. So, sorry, it is good.

    No answer?

    Answer. No. Why to explain inconsistency of
    your Shit to someone who neither knows it
    nor is interested in it?


    Did you ever asked yourself, given how short and simple are your
    "proofs", why NOBODY has proposed your arguments as "proofs" that SR
    was inconsistent?

    Still no answer.

    A lie. Of course

    That is a simple one. You're selling your
    idiocies as a voice of Nature Herself,

    Nope.

    Buhahahahahahahahaha.
    The impudence of your lies is amazing.



    Still no answer again. And still you consider all of Humanity since
    Einstein (and since Newton/Galileo too) as idiots compared to you, a
    random wannabee engineer whining and ranting from an asylum in Poland.
    Come on!

    Still mistakig yourseflf together with some
    brainwashed fellow idiots with Humanity.
    Don't you feel how unrealistic this is?
    This is the reason I suggest that you
    seek for medical help. You suffer from
    delusion or grandeur.


    Both refutation an meaningful arguments are,
    unfortunately, just some delusion of yours.
    Samely as being "all of humanity".

    Did you ever consider that, maybe, maybe you are too stupid and/or
    too stubborn to seriously consider these arguments?

    No. Do you?

    I did

    No you didn't. An impudent lie, as usual.

    As an engineer (a real one, not a wannabee as you)

    slander
    noun [ C or U ]
    uk /ˈslɑːn.dər/ us /ˈslæn.dɚ/
    a false spoken statement about someone that damages their reputation, or
    the making of such a statement:

    I concluded
    that your argument are utterly asinine and tried to explain you how and
    why. Again definitely not "screaming NOOO!" which is what YOU are doing.

    Definitely, screaming "NOOOOO!!!", spitting
    and slandering. You're unable for anything
    else, sorry, poor stinker. And your fellow
    idiots are no better.



    No answer to this either:

    Have you heard about Andrew Wiles proof of Fermat theorem in the 90x? Do
    you have the expertise to evaluate the validity of this alleged proof?
    Do you think that this alleged proof is valid (considering that it has
    been reviewed and revised afterward)?

    I've heard a bit, very little, I'm not
    especially interested in and I have no
    opinion whether it is valid or not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 18:49:21 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 19:39, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Did you ever confront your "proofs" to anyone outside of here?

    I confront it with people here and
    I can see that apart of spitting,
    slandering and desperately dodging
    questions they can do exactly nothing
    to it. So, sorry, it is good.

    No answer?

    Answer. No. Why to explain inconsistency of
    your Shit to someone who neither knows it
    nor is interested in it?

    You are claiming that nobody outside of here knows or is interested in Relativity? Really?

    That is a simple one. You're selling your
    idiocies as a voice of Nature Herself,

    Nope.

    Buhahahahahahahahaha.
    The impudence of your lies is amazing.

    You'll never find a single quote from me claiming that Relativity is a
    "voice of Nature Herself".

    The impudence of your lies is amazing.

    Still no answer again. And still you consider all of Humanity since
    Einstein (and since Newton/Galileo too) as idiots compared to you, a
    random wannabee engineer whining and ranting from an asylum in Poland.
    Come on!

    Still mistakig yourseflf together with some
    brainwashed fellow idiots with Humanity.
    Don't you feel how unrealistic this is?
    This is the reason I suggest that you
    seek for medical help. You suffer from
    delusion or grandeur.

    I'm not talking about myself. I notice that it doesn't ring a bell in your silly mind that such short and simple alleged "proof" have never been identified by anyone except you.

    This is a sign of mental illness, and delusion of grandeur.

    Both refutation an meaningful arguments are,
    unfortunately, just some delusion of yours.
    Samely as being "all of humanity".

    Did you ever consider that, maybe, maybe you are too stupid and/or
    too stubborn to seriously consider these arguments?

    No. Do you?

    I did

    No you didn't. An impudent lie, as usual.

    As an engineer (a real one, not a wannabee as you)

    slander

    There is 0% chance that you really are an engineer. Absolutely no doubt
    about that given how weak all your statement are. This is not a slander,
    this is a fact.

    I can prove that I am an engineer, I can produce actual engineering work
    and did publicly publish what I've done.

    This is something you've never done. We all know why.

    I concluded
    that your argument are utterly asinine and tried to explain you how and
    why. Again definitely not "screaming NOOO!" which is what YOU are doing.

    Definitely, screaming "NOOOOO!!!", spitting
    and slandering. You're unable for anything
    else, sorry, poor stinker. And your fellow
    idiots are no better.

    Definitely not screaming "NOOO!!!" which is exactly what *you* do in most
    of your posts.

    No answer to this either:

    Have you heard about Andrew Wiles proof of Fermat theorem in the 90x? Do
    you have the expertise to evaluate the validity of this alleged proof?
    Do you think that this alleged proof is valid (considering that it has
    been reviewed and revised afterward)?

    I've heard a bit, very little, I'm not
    especially interested in and I have no
    opinion whether it is valid or not.

    How convenient. Is anything that you consider as a valid proof in the
    History of mankind except an excerpt of your idiotic, ranting and silly
    posts?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 20:03:33 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 19:49, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 19:39, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Did you ever confront your "proofs" to anyone outside of here?

    I confront it with people here and
    I can see that apart of spitting,
    slandering and desperately dodging
    questions they can do exactly nothing
    to it. So, sorry, it is good.

    No answer?

    Answer. No. Why to explain inconsistency of
    your Shit to someone who neither knows it
    nor is interested in it?

    You are claiming that nobody outside of here knows or is interested in Relativity? Really?

    No, but
    1)I don't have anyone in range
    2)if he is he is most likely as brainwashed
    as any idiot here.


    That is a simple one. You're selling your
    idiocies as a voice of Nature Herself,

    Nope.

    Buhahahahahahahahaha.
    The impudence of your lies is amazing.

    You'll never find a single quote from me claiming that Relativity is a
    "voice of Nature Herself".

    But it was plural "you".



    Still mistakig yourseflf together with some
    brainwashed fellow idiots with Humanity.
    Don't you feel how  unrealistic this is?
    This is the reason  I suggest  that you
    seek for medical help.  You suffer from
    delusion or grandeur.

    I'm not talking about myself.

    You're talking about yourself together
    with other Shit worshippers. "Humanity",
    pfffff.

    This is a sign of mental illness, and
    delusion of grandeur.


    I notice that it doesn't ring a bell in
    your silly mind that such short and simple alleged "proof" have never
    been identified by anyone except you.

    This is a sign of mental illness, and delusion of grandeur.

    Both refutation an meaningful arguments are,
    unfortunately, just some delusion of yours.
    Samely as being "all of humanity".

    Did you ever consider that, maybe, maybe you are too stupid and/or
    too stubborn to seriously consider these arguments?

    No. Do you?

    I did

    No you didn't. An impudent lie, as usual.

    As an engineer (a real one, not a wannabee as you)

    slander

    There is 0% chance that you really are an engineer. Absolutely no doubt

    Put your chances and your doubts
    together straight into your dumb,
    fanatic, slandering ass where they
    belong, poor stinker.

    I can prove that I am an engineer,

    Or at least you can scream "NOOOO!!!"and
    wave your arms, like always.




    Definitely, screaming "NOOOOO!!!", spitting
    and slandering. You're unable for anything
    else, sorry, poor stinker. And your fellow
    idiots are no better.

    Definitely not screaming "NOOO!!!" which is exactly what *you* do in > most of your posts.

    Definitely screaming "NOOO!!!". As said, you
    are unable for anything else.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 20:44:45 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 20:15, Python pisze:

    Any kind of interest for Relativity implies to instantly being
    brainwashed? Really?

    Really. Sorry, physics is practically only atracting
    seekers of mystical "Laws of Nature" - whether
    they become followers or deniers of The Shit of
    Einstein doesn't really matter, in both cases
    Nature Herself is speaking through their mouths.


    There is 0% chance that you really are an engineer. Absolutely no doubt

    Put your chances and your doubts
    together straight into your dumb,
    fanatic, slandering ass where they
    belong,

    Still a undeniable fact anyway.

    Still amyway a fucking baseless slander sold
    as a "undeniable fact" by a well known
    piece of lying shit.

    Changing nothing, the mumble of your idiot
    guru is still inconsistent, the proof is
    still valid and you still can't do anything about
    it apart of mad ravings, spitting and - well,
    slandering.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to Demented ranting fart Maciej Woznia on Tue Jan 14 19:50:28 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 20:44, Demented ranting fart Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 20:15, Python pisze:

    Any kind of interest for Relativity implies to instantly being
    brainwashed? Really?

    Really. Sorry, physics is practically only atracting
    seekers of mystical "Laws of Nature" - whether
    they become followers or deniers of The Shit of
    Einstein doesn't really matter, in both cases
    Nature Herself is speaking through their mouths.

    Again, fantasies on your part. *facepalm*. And you pretend to be an
    engineer!

    Again, what's your point in posting idiotic rants every single day here if
    the place is full of "brainwashed fanatics"?

    'nuff said :-) I've engineering work to do, while nurses in Poland are
    waiting to clean your sheets.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 20:58:01 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 20:50, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 20:44, Demented ranting fart Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 20:15, Python pisze:

    Any kind of interest for Relativity implies to instantly being
    brainwashed? Really?

    Really. Sorry, physics is practically only atracting
    seekers of mystical "Laws of Nature" - whether
    they become followers or deniers of The Shit of
    Einstein doesn't really matter, in both cases
    Nature Herself is speaking through their mouths.

    Again, fantasies on your part. *facepalm*.

    Sad truth.


    And you pretend to be an engineer!

    No, I don't.


    Again, what's your point in posting idiotic rants every single day here
    if the place is full of "brainwashed fanatics"?

    Idiotic rants are all yours, I'm posting -
    for instance - a proof that the mumble
    of your idiot guru was not even consistent.


    while nurses in Poland are
    waiting to clean your sheets.

    slander
    noun [ C or U ]
    uk /ˈslɑːn.dər/ us /ˈslæn.dɚ/
    a false spoken statement about someone that damages their reputation, or
    the making of such a statement:

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 19:15:43 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 20:03, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Answer. No. Why to explain inconsistency of
    your Shit to someone who neither knows it
    nor is interested in it?

    You are claiming that nobody outside of here knows or is interested in
    Relativity? Really?

    No, but
    1)I don't have anyone in range

    You don't have anyone here in range too. Hopefully for you!

    There are a lot of far more populated places on the Internet where you
    could post your claims. People there are no more, no less "in range" to
    you than here.

    What is the point of posting every single day your claims about Relativity
    here if there is only "brainwashed fanatics" here? This does not make
    sense.

    2)if he is he is most likely as brainwashed
    as any idiot here.

    Any kind of interest for Relativity implies to instantly being
    brainwashed? Really?

    There is 0% chance that you really are an engineer. Absolutely no doubt

    Put your chances and your doubts
    together straight into your dumb,
    fanatic, slandering ass where they
    belong,

    Still a undeniable fact anyway.

    Again, this thread show that you can only scream "NO!!!", that you are a
    liar, that you are demented and that, even according to you very low, low standards, your behavior is the behavior of a demented illogical person.

    poor stinker.

    Nice signature though!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to Maciej Wozniak on Tue Jan 14 20:00:28 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 20:58, Demented ranting fart, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    [snip nonsense]

    And you pretend to be an engineer!

    No, I don't.

    You have pretended numerous times, here, to be an "information engineer". Google keeps the record.
    You are an impudent liar Maciej.

    [snip more nonsense]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 21:47:55 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 21:00, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 20:58, Demented ranting fart, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    [snip nonsense]

    And you pretend to be an  engineer!

    No, I don't.

    You have pretended numerous times, here, to be an "information
    engineer".

    I have pretended no more than you have, poor stinker.


    BTW. One could think that even a relativistic
    idiot would stop slandering in a discussion about
    his slandering. But - no - you're too stupid
    even for that. Indeed, amazing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 22:02:16 2025
    Den 14.01.2025 01:21, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 18:54:29 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
    Den 13.01.2025 06:07, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics";

    Ah! So that's where you found the "refraction formula"! :-D

    In 1930 Poor obviously knew 'The mathematical formula,
    by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75".'

    This is the equation:  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² @
    where:
    Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
    c = speed of light in vacuum
    G = gravitational constant
    M = solar mass
    In this case Δ = R, the radius of the Sun.

    This is indeed "a well known and simple formula" and
    since it is about physics and optics (light)
    Poor called it a "formula of physical optics".

    It has nothing to do with refraction, obviously.

    Why did you think that Poor claimed it was about refraction? :-D


    Why don't you read what you are responding to ?

    Paul says Poor's statement that Einstein used an optics formula is ridiculous. Then he misconstrues, claiming this would have happened
    after the actual measurements, which is nonsense. He used the optics
    formula for his prediction.

    This is Poor's statement:
    "The mathematical formula, by which Einstein calculated his
    deflection of 1.75 seconds for light rays passing the edge of
    the sun, is a well known and simple formula of physical optics"

    Poor is _obviously_ referring to Einstein's equation in his
    1916 paper "The Foundation of the General Theory of Relativity"

    This is the equation: Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c²

    This is what Paul says about Poor's statement:

    'This is indeed "a well known and simple formula" and
    since it is about physics and optics (light)
    Poor called it a "formula of physical optics".'

    Poor's statement isn't ridiculous at all.



    Yes, Poor shows he used a refraction formula.

    But this statement of yours is indeed ridiculous.

    From whence have you got the idiotic idea that the equation
    Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is a "refraction formula"?

    It is a gravitational deflection formula.

    "refraction" is the phenomenon that light is bent when it passes
    through a medium with varying density (air, water, glass).

    "gravitational deflection" is the phenomenon that light is bent
    when in passes a gravitating mass.

    Since both are about bending of light beams, both
    "refraction formulas" and "gravitational deflection formulas"
    can be called "formulas of physical optics".


    But it doesn't matter what you call the equation.

    It is a _fact_ that GR predicts that the gravitational deflection
    of EM-radiation is Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is now so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.


    It is very ignorant to think that contradictory experiments that show Newtonian and twice Newtonian prove relativity. The experiments have
    proved nothing. Relativity is an ignorant pseudoscience comprised of
    nothing but illogical and self-contradictory baseless claims.

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory.

    Experiments have shown that GR correctly predicts how light
    is gravitational deflected.

    So gravitational deflection does not falsify GR,
    and thus confirms GR.

    It doesn't prove GR, though. Theories of physics can't be proved.

    Mercury's
    perihelion of relativity is based on the assumption that gravity can be treated as electromagnetism.

    Nonsense!

    GR predicts that if the Sun and Mercury were the only bodies in
    the universe, then the perihelion advance of Mercury would be:
    42.98"/century (at Epoch J2000)

    "Electromagnetism" has nothing to do with it.
    It is gravitation only.

    See 3.2 in:
    https://paulba.no/pdf/GRPerihelionAdvance.pdf

    According to Britannica, this is now known
    to be false because the unified field theory "failed."

    Britannica does certainly not say that GR's prediction
    for the perihelion advance of Mercury is false.
    Quite the contrary!

    That Einstein failed to make "the unified field theory"
    is common knowledge. (Nobody has succeeded.)


    Galileo and
    Eotvos showed everything, regardless of the mass or the substance, is affected the same by gravity. Relativity has not disproved that.

    Quite right.
    According to SR/GR, gravitational mass is the same as inertial mass.

    What was your point?

    The
    velocity of both waves and particles includes the relative velocity of
    the observer, yet relativity irrationally denies this—pure lunacy.

    What are you trying to say?
    Do you mean that the velocity of a wave or particle relative to
    the observer includes the velocity of the observer?

    Please explain.



    Einstein has stated that if two different forces strike you with the
    same force, the effect will be the same! Pure genius! Poor quotes
    Einstein's explanation of his equivalence principle: "'The effect of gravitation upon ideal “clocks” and “measuring rods” at rest at a given
    point in a gravitational field is identically the same as that caused by
    a motion of the “clock” and “rod” through free space with a velocity equal to that which they would have acquired had they fallen, under the action of gravitation, from infinity to that point.'"

    How confused is it possible to be? :-D

    So you claim that according to Einstein, the equivalence principle
    is that a clock which is stationary in a gravitational field
    is affected the same way as a free falling clock!

    (None of the clocks are affected in any way, they tick at their
    normal rate.)

    --------------------

    Please answer the following question:

    You are in a room.
    In the middle of the room an accelerometer is hanging in a string
    from the ceiling.
    You see the accelerometer shows 1 g acceleration towards the ceiling.

    Is the room accelerating at 1 g far from the Earth and other
    gravitating masses, or is it stationary on the ground?

    You have ignored the question before.
    Will you do it again?
    Why?

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to Demented old fart Maciej Wozniak on Tue Jan 14 21:02:21 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 21:47, Demented old fart Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 21:00, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 20:58, Demented ranting fart, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    [snip nonsense]

    And you pretend to be an  engineer!

    No, I don't.

    You have pretended numerous times, here, to be an "information
    engineer".

    I have pretended no more than you have

    You did. I am an engineer and that I can prove it. You can't. You are
    certainly NOT one. You've (maybe by inadvertence) unambiguously admitted
    it. :-)

    BTW. One could think that even a relativistic
    idiot would stop slandering in a discussion about
    his slandering. But - no - you're too stupid
    even for that. Indeed, amazing.

    The discussion is not about that. The discussion about how silly, idiotic
    and a ranting demented stupid crank you are. I'm not slandering: I
    suggested realistic hypothesis about your real mental and physical state.
    It is very realist, given the contents of your posts, to conclude that you
    are a mentally ill senile kook living in a asylum.

    What is good, anyway, is that you have, in this thread, implicitly but
    clearly admitted that you lied when you've pretended to be an "information engineer" and also that you've explained that you kept yourself as far as physics as possible (to escape a fantasizing "brain washing") while you
    pretend of some kind of expertise on it. I will recall this to you, when
    you'll post more idiotic rants, as you daily do, if I have spare time of course.

    Moreover you've evaded almost all questions I asked. Especially what is
    your point when posting here and nowhere else. And the delusion of
    grandeur you have.

    slandering poor stinker.

    Nice signature!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 22:48:22 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:02, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 21:47, Demented old fart Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 21:00, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 20:58, Demented ranting fart, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    [snip nonsense]

    And you pretend to be an  engineer!

    No, I don't.

    You have pretended numerous times, here, to be an "information
    engineer".

    I have pretended no more than you have

    You did.

    No.


    I am an engineer and that I can prove it.

    A shame for all the engineers of the world, but
    I'm not going to deny baselessly like a reletivistic
    idiot.
    And still I'm not pretending more than you are.




    What is good, anyway, is that you have, in this thread, implicitly but clearly admitted that you lied when you've pretended to be an
    "information engineer"

    Your delusions have np limits, as expected
    from delusions of a fanatic idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 22:50:06 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:39, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:


    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.

    A lie, of course - according to your moronic
    religion light [in vacuum] doesn't deflect
    and take always straight/geodesic paths.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 22:39:43 2025
    Den 14.01.2025 01:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 18:54:29 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.


    "This is exactly double the value given in 1911, and this doubling
    of values has given rise to many speculations, and to many and
    varied explanations, on the part of the relativists.

    Everybody knows that his 1911 prediction is wrong.
    It is in fact the Newtonian prediction.
    So what?

    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.


    An inspection of the formulas, which Einstein used, shows
    exactly what he did and how he derived this result. The essential
    factor in the formula is that for the rate of change of velocity
    along the wave-front 6c, 6x ; and this is the only factor in which
    any change can be made. All the other terms and factors of the
    formula are always identically the same." - Poor = "THE RELATIVITY
    DEFLECTION OF LIGHT!"

    Why don't you understand that it is hopeless to claim that
    the GR equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong?

    During the 100+ years since Einstein wrote the GR paper,
    the calculation is repeated _many_ times by different physicists.

    It is a _fact_ that GR predicts that the gravitational deflection
    of light is Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².

    See:


    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to Maciej Wozniak on Tue Jan 14 22:01:32 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 22:48, Convicted liar, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:02, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 21:47, Demented old fart Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 21:00, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 20:58, Demented ranting fart, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    [snip nonsense]

    And you pretend to be an  engineer!

    No, I don't.

    You have pretended numerous times, here, to be an "information
    engineer".

    I have pretended no more than you have

    You did.

    No.

    The point is not that you would have pretended more or less than I. What I pretend is true, sound and provable. What you pretended is false, unsound
    and you admit now that it was a plain lie.

    Remember: Google keep the record of numerous posts where you pretended to
    be an "information engineer". Your denials won't change anything.

    This is an unambiguous admittance that you lied then. Also that you are in
    no way an engineer of any kind. Even you realized how unrealistic this
    claim was. You shot yourself in the foot (not the first time though).

    A shame for all the engineers of the world

    Fortunately you are not, so there is no shame for all of us. BTW, a lot of
    my engineering work is public. If you have critics on it, feel free to
    express it.

    What is good, anyway, is that you have, in this thread, implicitly but
    clearly admitted that you lied when you've pretended to be an
    "information engineer"

    You lied. You admitted it. EOS. There were something to learn from this
    thread :-)

    You also admitted to have kept yourself as far as possible from physics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 22:10:28 2025
    Le 14/01/2025 à 22:50, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:39, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:


    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.

    A lie, of course - according to [GR],
    light [in vacuum] doesn't deflect
    and take always straight/geodesic paths.

    How could you know anything about what GR says or doesn't say as you admit
    to stay as far as physics as possible in order to not become a
    "brainwashed fanatic" :-)

    (for the record: a straight/geodesic path in space-time does not
    necessarily corresponds to a straight path in space. Maciej is sooo highly confused on everything, especially geometry. It is quite delusional to
    think that GR pretends so given that planets orbits [in space] are clearly
    not straight lines even if they correspond to geodesics in space-time).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to rhertz on Wed Jan 15 11:02:16 2025
    On 12-Jan-25 1:16 am, rhertz wrote:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected
    by gravity.

    1) A photon with energy E, falling under gravity effects from height h, increases its energy by an amount

    ΔE = +mgh

    Using the equivalence m = E/c^2, its energy when it reaches ground is E
    + ΔE:


    E + ΔE = E (1 + gh/c^2)

    Using Planck's equivalence E = hf, it gives

    f + Δf = f (1 + gh/c^2)

    Then, under Newton, the frequency change is

    Δf/f = +gh/c^2

    The frequency of the photon increase by falling, and is blue-shifted.

    On the other way around, if a photon is escaping from ground, at an
    height h its frequency has decreased by

    Δf/f = -gh/c^2 (red-shifted)

    ******************************************************

    No relativity here. Only requires to accept the existence of
    gravitational mass and a given equivalence mass-energy.

    The problem is that this doesn't work. Two observers at different
    heights would see differing numbers of waves passing their respective
    locations per unit time. The observers would conclude that waves were accumulating between their two locations, or somehow just vanishing.

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Python on Wed Jan 15 04:56:48 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 22:10:28 +0000, Python wrote:

    Le 14/01/2025 à 22:50, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:39, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:


    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.

    A lie, of course - according to [GR],
    light [in vacuum] doesn't deflect
    and take always straight/geodesic paths.

    How could you know anything about what GR says or doesn't say as you
    admit
    to stay as far as physics as possible in order to not become a
    "brainwashed fanatic" :-)

    (for the record: a straight/geodesic path in space-time does not
    necessarily corresponds to a straight path in space. Maciej is sooo
    highly
    confused on everything, especially geometry. It is quite delusional to
    think that GR pretends so given that planets orbits [in space] are
    clearly
    not straight lines even if they correspond to geodesics in space-time).
    The claim that a straight geodesic path actually keeps the light speed
    constant is necessary to apply Huygens' principle for the alleged
    doubling of the deflection, according to "THE RELATIVITY DEFLECTION OF
    LIGHT" by Robert J. T., 1929.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Maciej Wozniak on Wed Jan 15 04:53:16 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:50:06 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:

    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:39, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:


    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.

    A lie, of course - according to your moronic
    religion light [in vacuum] doesn't deflect
    and take always straight/geodesic paths.
    Yes, non-Euclidean geometry is invoked to claim a straight path and a
    constant velocity of light. According to basic physics, a curved path
    would involve accelerations. The only problem is that space isn't
    curved. That is an elementary logical error made by eminent imbeciles
    who make money telling tall tales.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Wed Jan 15 04:49:41 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:39:43 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 14.01.2025 01:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 18:54:29 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.


    "This is exactly double the value given in 1911, and this doubling
    of values has given rise to many speculations, and to many and
    varied explanations, on the part of the relativists.

    Everybody knows that his 1911 prediction is wrong.
    It is in fact the Newtonian prediction.
    So what?

    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.


    An inspection of the formulas, which Einstein used, shows
    exactly what he did and how he derived this result. The essential
    factor in the formula is that for the rate of change of velocity
    along the wave-front 6c, 6x ; and this is the only factor in which
    any change can be made. All the other terms and factors of the
    formula are always identically the same." - Poor = "THE RELATIVITY
    DEFLECTION OF LIGHT!"

    Why don't you understand that it is hopeless to claim that
    the GR equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong?

    During the 100+ years since Einstein wrote the GR paper,
    the calculation is repeated _many_ times by different physicists.

    It is a _fact_ that GR predicts that the gravitational deflection
    of light is Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².

    See:


    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.
    You are such a waste of time as you never directly answer any of the
    points made. Relativity does not predict how much light is deflected, so experiments cannot prove relativity. It provides no good reason for the doubling because it resorts to the reification fallacy of non-Euclidean geometry. Space is not curved because it is an abstraction. "Many
    physicists" is yet another appeal to authority, which is another logical fallacy you are so stupid as to defend. It is extraordinary that so many eminent scientists accept so many foolish and ignorant ideas, including
    the velocity-distance relationship and the doubling.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Wed Jan 15 05:01:10 2025
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 3:02:16 +0000, Sylvia Else wrote:

    On 12-Jan-25 1:16 am, rhertz wrote:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected
    by gravity.

    1) A photon with energy E, falling under gravity effects from height h,
    increases its energy by an amount

    ΔE = +mgh

    Using the equivalence m = E/c^2, its energy when it reaches ground is E
    + ΔE:


    E + ΔE = E (1 + gh/c^2)

    Using Planck's equivalence E = hf, it gives

    f + Δf = f (1 + gh/c^2)

    Then, under Newton, the frequency change is

    Δf/f = +gh/c^2

    The frequency of the photon increase by falling, and is blue-shifted.

    On the other way around, if a photon is escaping from ground, at an
    height h its frequency has decreased by

    Δf/f = -gh/c^2 (red-shifted)

    ******************************************************

    No relativity here. Only requires to accept the existence of
    gravitational mass and a given equivalence mass-energy.

    The problem is that this doesn't work. Two observers at different
    heights would see differing numbers of waves passing their respective locations per unit time. The observers would conclude that waves were accumulating between their two locations, or somehow just vanishing.

    Sylvia.
    It makes no difference whether it behaves as a wave or particle because
    the same change in frequency results. I thought you were a
    mathematician. The frequency would vary with height in rational science.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Python on Wed Jan 15 05:05:31 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 22:10:28 +0000, Python wrote:

    Le 14/01/2025 à 22:50, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:39, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:


    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.

    A lie, of course - according to [GR],
    light [in vacuum] doesn't deflect
    and take always straight/geodesic paths.

    How could you know anything about what GR says or doesn't say as you
    admit
    to stay as far as physics as possible in order to not become a
    "brainwashed fanatic" :-)

    (for the record: a straight/geodesic path in space-time does not
    necessarily corresponds to a straight path in space. Maciej is sooo
    highly
    confused on everything, especially geometry. It is quite delusional to
    think that GR pretends so given that planets orbits [in space] are
    clearly
    not straight lines even if they correspond to geodesics in space-time).
    He asserts that the non-Euclidean is real and the Euclidean is not real
    by calling the Euclidean a "projection" of the non-Euclidean. Thus, he
    says the Euclidean involves a "distortion." The non-Euclidean
    reification fallacy is the distortion. Thank you for refuting the
    relativist's defense of using the Huygens principle to keep the speed of
    light constant.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Wed Jan 15 05:31:10 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:39:43 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 14.01.2025 01:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 18:54:29 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.


    "This is exactly double the value given in 1911, and this doubling
    of values has given rise to many speculations, and to many and
    varied explanations, on the part of the relativists.

    Everybody knows that his 1911 prediction is wrong.
    It is in fact the Newtonian prediction.
    So what?

    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.


    An inspection of the formulas, which Einstein used, shows
    exactly what he did and how he derived this result. The essential
    factor in the formula is that for the rate of change of velocity
    along the wave-front 6c, 6x ; and this is the only factor in which
    any change can be made. All the other terms and factors of the
    formula are always identically the same." - Poor = "THE RELATIVITY
    DEFLECTION OF LIGHT!"

    Why don't you understand that it is hopeless to claim that
    the GR equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong?

    During the 100+ years since Einstein wrote the GR paper,
    the calculation is repeated _many_ times by different physicists.

    It is a _fact_ that GR predicts that the gravitational deflection
    of light is Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².

    See:


    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.
    Euclidean geometry is for planes, and non-Euclidean geometry is for
    other surfaces, such as spheres. Space is not a curved surface. Eminent
    people make stupid mistakes. Hubble and Zwicky didn't accept the velocity-distance relationship.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 05:49:25 2025
    "The many are ignorant, and the few are wise." - Socrates. You go with
    the many. That is ad populum.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Wed Jan 15 05:41:17 2025
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 3:02:16 +0000, Sylvia Else wrote:

    On 12-Jan-25 1:16 am, rhertz wrote:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected
    by gravity.

    1) A photon with energy E, falling under gravity effects from height h,
    increases its energy by an amount

    ΔE = +mgh

    Using the equivalence m = E/c^2, its energy when it reaches ground is E
    + ΔE:


    E + ΔE = E (1 + gh/c^2)

    Using Planck's equivalence E = hf, it gives

    f + Δf = f (1 + gh/c^2)

    Then, under Newton, the frequency change is

    Δf/f = +gh/c^2

    The frequency of the photon increase by falling, and is blue-shifted.

    On the other way around, if a photon is escaping from ground, at an
    height h its frequency has decreased by

    Δf/f = -gh/c^2 (red-shifted)

    ******************************************************

    No relativity here. Only requires to accept the existence of
    gravitational mass and a given equivalence mass-energy.

    The problem is that this doesn't work. Two observers at different
    heights would see differing numbers of waves passing their respective locations per unit time. The observers would conclude that waves were accumulating between their two locations, or somehow just vanishing.

    Sylvia.
    This is a problem for you only because you want to pretend that light
    speed is constant while it is affected by gravity. For that, you invoke non-Euclidean geometry, which Python just pointed out can't accomplish.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 07:34:33 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 23:01, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 22:48, Convicted liar, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:02, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 21:47, Demented old fart Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 21:00, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 20:58, Demented ranting fart, Maciej Wozniak wrote: >>>>>> [snip nonsense]

    And you pretend to be an  engineer!

    No, I don't.

    You have pretended numerous times, here, to be an "information
    engineer".

    I have pretended no more than you have

    You did.

    No.

    The point is not that you would have pretended more or less than I. What
    I pretend is true, sound and provable. What you pretended is false,

    slander
    noun [ C or U ]
    uk /ˈslɑːn.dər/ us /ˈslæn.dɚ/
    a false spoken statement about someone that damages their reputation, or
    the making of such a statement:



    This is an unambiguous admittance that you lied then. Also that you are
    in no way an engineer of any kind.

    slander
    noun [ C or U ]
    uk /ˈslɑːn.dər/ us /ˈslæn.dɚ/
    a false spoken statement about someone that damages their reputation, or
    the making of such a statement:


    One could think that even a relativistic
    idiot would temporarily stop slandering in
    a discussion about his slandering. But - no
    - you're too stupid even for that. Indeed,
    amazing.




    \
    Even you realized how unrealistic
    this claim was. You shot yourself in the foot (not the first time though).

    A shame for all the engineers of the world

    Fortunately you are not, so there is no shame for all of us. BTW, a lot
    of my engineering work is public. If you have critics on it, feel free
    to express it.
    What is good, anyway, is that you have, in this thread, implicitly
    but clearly admitted that you lied when you've pretended to be an
    "information engineer"

    You lied. You admitted it. EOS.

    Both lies. You won't admit it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to LaurenceClarkCrossen on Wed Jan 15 14:16:51 2025
    On 15-Jan-25 1:41 pm, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 3:02:16 +0000, Sylvia Else wrote:

    On 12-Jan-25 1:16 am, rhertz wrote:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected >>> by gravity.

    1) A photon with energy E, falling under gravity effects from height h,
    increases its energy by an amount

    ΔE = +mgh

    Using the equivalence m = E/c^2, its energy when it reaches ground is E
    + ΔE:


    E + ΔE = E (1 + gh/c^2)

    Using Planck's equivalence E = hf, it gives

    f + Δf = f (1 + gh/c^2)

    Then, under Newton, the frequency change is

    Δf/f = +gh/c^2

    The frequency of the photon increase by falling, and is blue-shifted.

    On the other way around, if a photon is escaping from ground, at an
    height h its frequency has decreased by

    Δf/f = -gh/c^2 (red-shifted)

    ******************************************************

    No relativity here. Only requires to accept the existence of
    gravitational mass and a given equivalence mass-energy.

    The problem is that this doesn't work. Two observers at different
    heights would see differing numbers of waves passing their respective
    locations per unit time. The observers would conclude that waves were
    accumulating between their two locations, or somehow just vanishing.

    Sylvia.
    This is a problem for you only because you want to pretend that light
    speed is constant while it is affected by gravity. For that, you invoke non-Euclidean geometry, which Python just pointed out can't accomplish.

    How does letting the speed of light vary solve the problem of
    accumulating waves?

    Even in situations where the speed of light does vary, such as when it
    enters a medium, we don't see changes in the frequency, since that would
    again create the problem of accumulating waves.

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 07:39:12 2025
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 23:10, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 22:50, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:39, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:


    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.

    A lie, of course - according to [GR],
    light [in vacuum] doesn't deflect
    and take always straight/geodesic paths.

    How could you know anything about what GR says or doesn't say as you
    admit to stay as far as physics as possible

    Somehow I do.

    (for the record: a straight/geodesic path in space-time does not
    necessarily corresponds to a straight path in space.

    If we're taking the delusional spacetime of your
    bunch of idiots and the real space - sure.
    Anyway, according to The Shit of your idiot guru
    Light paths [in vacuum] are straight/geodesic
    in both.



    Maciej is sooo
    highly confused on everything, especially geometry. It is quite
    delusional to think that GR pretends so given that planets orbits [in
    space] are clearly not straight lines even if they correspond to
    geodesics in space-time).\

    It's quite delusional, indeed, but I knew some
    relativistic idiots insisting on that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 07:41:19 2025
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 04:02, Sylvia Else pisze:

    The problem is that this doesn't work. Two observers at different
    heights would see differing numbers of waves passing their respective locations per unit time.

    Sorry, lady, it's just a bullshit gedanken by
    a DK crazie having no clue of how a human
    brain works.
    Now anyone can check GPS...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Wed Jan 15 11:47:12 2025
    Paul.B.Andersen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Den 13.01.2025 21:05, skrev J. J. Lodder:
    Paul.B.Andersen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Den 13.01.2025 06:07, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates?

    I interpreted this as that Einstein somehow had "fixed"
    the predictions of GR to be in accordance with measurements
    shown on some photographic plates.

    In other words, LaurenceClarkCrossen claim that Einstein
    knew what the GR prediction should be to be in accordance
    with measurements.


    How ridiculous! :-D

    Einstein calculated the GR prediction 1.7" in 1916,
    before any measurements of the deflection was made.

    See:
    https://paulba.no/paper/Foundation_of_GR.pdf

    At the top of page 69:

    "We examine the curvature undergone by a ray of light passing
    by a mass M at the distance ?."

    The calculation is shown on page 69 and the result is given
    at the bottom of the page:

    "According to this, a ray of light going past the sun undergoes
    a deflexion of 1.7"."

    So in 1916 nobody, including Einstein, knew what the correct
    value was, because no measurements were ever made.

    Here I meant "correct" as "in accordance with measurements".

    I know. You are a naive empiricist. (unlike Einstein)

    But it is a matter of record that Hilbert complimented Einstein
    on the rapidity and cleverness with which he had derived
    the correct value for the deflection of starlight
    from the equations of general relativity.
    (if only I could calculate like you...)
    Hilbert certainly did not see any error in it or he would have said so.
    Not surprising of course, because there isnt any.


    I expressed myself a bit clumsy.
    Of course Einstein gave the correct GR prediction.

    And the point of it was (for Mercury also)
    that there are no free parameters in the theory.

    But nobody had at the time made any measurements,
    so nobody knew if the predictions of GR would be in accordance
    with measurements.

    So it goes, with great new theories.
    They make you look boldly where none has looked before.

    Point being that LaurenceClarkCrossen's claim that Einstein
    had "cooked" the GR prediction is nonsense.

    Of course.
    Such 'cooking' would also be practically impossible.
    It is not possible to measure the deflection directly.
    One needs to measure several star positions in the field,
    and do -a lot- of sine/cosine arithmetic.

    It is not obvious how one should mismeasure many star positions
    in order to arrive quantitatively at some desired result.
    And, as said already, copies of the plates were distributed,
    and others reproduced the measurements and computations.
    A modern remeasurement, using more stars and computer power
    also vindicated Eddington,

    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 11:01:32 2025
    Le 15/01/2025 à 07:39, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 23:10, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 22:50, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 22:39, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:


    It is a fact that experiments have shown that GR correctly
    predicts how light is gravitational deflected.

    A lie, of course - according to [GR],
    light [in vacuum] doesn't deflect
    and take always straight/geodesic paths.

    How could you know anything about what GR says or doesn't say as you
    admit to stay as far as physics as possible

    Somehow I do.

    Clearly not enough...

    (for the record: a straight/geodesic path in space-time does not
    necessarily corresponds to a straight path in space.

    If we're taking the delusional spacetime of your
    bunch of idiots and the real space - sure.

    There is nothing delusional in spacetime. Moreover if you remove the
    concept of spacetime from GR, is not GR but a fantasy of yours.

    Anyway, according to [GR] of your idiot guru
    Light paths [in vacuum] are straight/geodesic
    in both.

    No. Period.

    Maciej is sooo
    highly confused on everything, especially geometry. It is quite
    delusional to think that GR pretends so given that planets orbits [in
    space] are clearly not straight lines even if they correspond to
    geodesics in space-time).\

    It's quite delusional, indeed, but I knew some
    relativistic [...] insisting on that.

    In your silly dreams maybe, in reality certainly NOT.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 11:02:43 2025
    Le 15/01/2025 à 07:34, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 23:01, Python pisze:
    ..
    Fortunately you are not, so there is no shame for all of us. BTW, a lot
    of my engineering work is public. If you have critics on it, feel free
    to express it.
    What is good, anyway, is that you have, in this thread, implicitly
    but clearly admitted that you lied when you've pretended to be an
    "information engineer"

    You lied. You admitted it. EOS.

    Both lies. You won't admit it.

    You admit being a liar, this is the point.

    Moreover, anyway, I didn't lie.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 12:11:45 2025
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 12:01, Python pisze:

    Anyway, according to [GR] of your idiot guru
    Light paths [in vacuum] are straight/geodesic
    in both.

    No. Period.

    I wonder whether lie again or simply have no clue.
    Anyway - then, WHAT is a space geodesic (I don't mean
    spacetime geodesic here) in your absurd religion?



      Maciej is sooo
    highly confused on everything, especially geometry. It is quite
    delusional to think that GR pretends so given that planets orbits [in
    space] are clearly not straight lines even if they correspond to
    geodesics in space-time).\

    It's quite delusional, indeed, but I knew some
    relativistic [...] insisting on that.

    In your silly dreams maybe, in reality certainly NOT.

    You have no clue of who I knew and pretending
    the opposite is an utter idiocy. But, well, you're
    an utter idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 12:14:42 2025
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 12:02, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 07:34, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 23:01, Python pisze:
    ..
    Fortunately you are not, so there is no shame for all of us. BTW, a
    lot of my engineering work is public. If you have critics on it, feel
    free to express it.
    What is good, anyway, is that you have, in this thread, implicitly
    but clearly admitted that you lied when you've pretended to be an
    "information engineer"

    You lied. You admitted it. EOS.

    Both lies. You won't admit it.

    You admit being a liar

    If you take "slander" word as admitting...

    Moreover, anyway, I didn't lie.

    And those nurses waiting to change my
    sheets are another of your "undeniable
    facts", right, poor stinker?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 14:00:31 2025
    Den 15.01.2025 05:49, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:39:43 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    Why don't you understand that it is hopeless to claim that
    the GR equation  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong?

    During the 100+ years since Einstein wrote the GR paper,
    the calculation is repeated _many_ times by different physicists.

    It is a _fact_ that GR predicts that the gravitational deflection
    of light is  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².

    See:


    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    You are such a waste of time as you never directly answer any of the
    points made. Relativity does not predict how much light is deflected, so experiments cannot prove relativity.

    Why do you still not understand that it is a _fact_ that GR
    predicts that the gravitational deflection of light is Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Even Poor knew that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².
    He insisted that that the equation (and GR) was wrong.

    All the precise measurements of gravitational deflection
    are made after 2000, so he didn't know what we now know:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    It provides no good reason for the
    doubling because it resorts to the reification fallacy of non-Euclidean geometry. Space is not curved because it is an abstraction.

    GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c². It is not doubling of anything.

    That the Newtonian prediction is Θ = 2GM/Δ⋅c² only
    means that the Newtonian prediction is wrong.

    "Many
    physicists" is yet another appeal to authority, which is another logical fallacy you are so stupid as to defend. It is extraordinary that so many eminent scientists accept so many foolish and ignorant ideas, including
    the velocity-distance relationship and the doubling.

    You are babbling nonsense.

    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists
    have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 14:24:02 2025
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 14:00, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
    Den 15.01.2025 05:49, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:39:43 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    Why don't you understand that it is hopeless to claim that
    the GR equation  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong?

    During the 100+ years since Einstein wrote the GR paper,
    the calculation is repeated _many_ times by different physicists.

    It is a _fact_ that GR predicts that the gravitational deflection
    of light is  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².

    See:


    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    You are such a waste of time as you never directly answer any of the
    points made. Relativity does not predict how much light is deflected, so
    experiments cannot prove relativity.

    Why do you still not understand that it is a _fact_ that GR
    predicts that the gravitational deflection of light is  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Because it's a lie, according to The
    Shit of your idiot guru light doesn't
    deflect and is always taking a straight/
    geodesic path.


    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.

    Nope, what you and your fellow idiots
    are calling with the phrase is just
    some nonsensical, delusional bullshit.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 17:56:57 2025
    Le 15/01/2025 à 12:14, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 12:02, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 07:34, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 23:01, Python pisze:
    ..
    Fortunately you are not, so there is no shame for all of us. BTW, a
    lot of my engineering work is public. If you have critics on it, feel
    free to express it.
    What is good, anyway, is that you have, in this thread, implicitly >>>>>> but clearly admitted that you lied when you've pretended to be an
    "information engineer"

    You lied. You admitted it. EOS.

    Both lies. You won't admit it.

    You admit being a liar

    If you take "slander" word as admitting...

    I'm talking about your claim that never you'd have pretended to be an
    engineer. Which is a lie. A quite silly one, given that Google keep the
    record.

    Also a lie is to have pretended to be an engineer. So when you've shown yourself a liar, you've shown it twice in one go!

    Moreover, anyway, I didn't lie.

    And those nurses waiting to change my
    sheets are another of your "undeniable
    facts", right, poor stinker?

    It is not a lie, it is a plausible hypothesis.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Wed Jan 15 17:36:46 2025
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 05:49, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:39:43 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    Why don't you understand that it is hopeless to claim that
    the GR equation  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong?

    During the 100+ years since Einstein wrote the GR paper,
    the calculation is repeated _many_ times by different physicists.

    It is a _fact_ that GR predicts that the gravitational deflection
    of light is  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².

    See:


    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    You are such a waste of time as you never directly answer any of the
    points made. Relativity does not predict how much light is deflected, so
    experiments cannot prove relativity.

    Why do you still not understand that it is a _fact_ that GR
    predicts that the gravitational deflection of light is Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Even Poor knew that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².
    He insisted that that the equation (and GR) was wrong.

    All the precise measurements of gravitational deflection
    are made after 2000, so he didn't know what we now know:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    It provides no good reason for the
    doubling because it resorts to the reification fallacy of non-Euclidean
    geometry. Space is not curved because it is an abstraction.

    GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c². It is not doubling of anything.

    That the Newtonian prediction is Θ = 2GM/Δ⋅c² only
    means that the Newtonian prediction is wrong.

    "Many
    physicists" is yet another appeal to authority, which is another logical
    fallacy you are so stupid as to defend. It is extraordinary that so many
    eminent scientists accept so many foolish and ignorant ideas, including
    the velocity-distance relationship and the doubling.

    You are babbling nonsense.

    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists
    have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.
    If the derivation is wrong, it doesn't predict. You didn't understand
    what Poor said. Poor has directly addressed the "4" in your equation.
    After refusing to divulge his derivation for his doubling, Einstein
    finally asserted he got it by employing Huygens' principle. That formula
    is for calculating refraction. Then Einstein admits to adding
    gravitational effect and refraction to get his doubling. You keep
    appealing to the majority and authority instead of reason.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Wed Jan 15 17:46:42 2025
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 05:49, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:39:43 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    Why don't you understand that it is hopeless to claim that
    the GR equation  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong?

    During the 100+ years since Einstein wrote the GR paper,
    the calculation is repeated _many_ times by different physicists.

    It is a _fact_ that GR predicts that the gravitational deflection
    of light is  Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².

    See:


    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    You are such a waste of time as you never directly answer any of the
    points made. Relativity does not predict how much light is deflected, so
    experiments cannot prove relativity.

    Why do you still not understand that it is a _fact_ that GR
    predicts that the gravitational deflection of light is Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Even Poor knew that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c².
    He insisted that that the equation (and GR) was wrong.

    All the precise measurements of gravitational deflection
    are made after 2000, so he didn't know what we now know:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    is so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    It provides no good reason for the
    doubling because it resorts to the reification fallacy of non-Euclidean
    geometry. Space is not curved because it is an abstraction.

    GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c². It is not doubling of anything.

    That the Newtonian prediction is Θ = 2GM/Δ⋅c² only
    means that the Newtonian prediction is wrong.

    "Many
    physicists" is yet another appeal to authority, which is another logical
    fallacy you are so stupid as to defend. It is extraordinary that so many
    eminent scientists accept so many foolish and ignorant ideas, including
    the velocity-distance relationship and the doubling.

    You are babbling nonsense.

    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists
    have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.
    Your opinion and that of the majority and the authorities are irrelevant fantasies. You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have done
    by mentioning his paper.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to Old demented fart Maciej Wozniak on Wed Jan 15 18:49:49 2025
    Le 15/01/2025 à 19:45, Old demented fart Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    .. I'am an engineer,

    Come on. This has 0% plausibility given the bunch of nonsense you posting
    here every single day for years.

    You are a demented old fart in the middle of nowhere.

    Yesterday you made some progress by admitting you lied then. Now you are
    back to 100% dementia...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 18:54:48 2025
    Le 15/01/2025 à 19:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ... I'am an engineer,
    So I am not pretending [being] one.

    "One of the best logician Humanity ever had" (ah ah ah!) doesn't know that there it is perfectly possible to pretend being something AND being so as
    well as to pretend something AND no being so.

    Pretending to be an engineer and not being an engineer is possible
    (actually true in your case).

    Pretending to be Polish and being Polish is also possible (actually true
    in your case too).

    Sad times. The nurses will have an hard day tomorrow...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 19:45:20 2025
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 18:56, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 12:14, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 12:02, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 07:34, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 23:01, Python pisze:
    ..
    Fortunately you are not, so there is no shame for all of us. BTW, a
    lot of my engineering work is public. If you have critics on it,
    feel free to express it.
    What is good, anyway, is that you have, in this thread,
    implicitly but clearly admitted that you lied when you've
    pretended to be an "information engineer"

    You lied. You admitted it. EOS.

    Both lies. You won't admit it.

    You admit being a liar

    If you take "slander" word as admitting...

    I'm talking about your claim that never you'd have pretended to be an engineer. Which is a lie.

    No, poor stinker, it is not. I'am an engineer,
    So I am not pretending one.


    A quite silly one, given that Google keep the
    record.

    Also a lie is to have pretended to be an engineer. So when you've shown yourself a liar, you've shown it twice in one go!
    Moreover, anyway, I didn't lie.

    And those nurses waiting to change my
    sheets are another of your "undeniable
    facts", right, poor stinker?

    It is not a lie, it is a plausible hypothesis.

    Go fuck yourself, you piece of shit.

    You have no competency, no arguments,
    nothing - but you can alwways spit
    and slander. Yes, this is a slander ,
    absolutely - a false statement you
    spread to damage one's (mine)
    reputation.

    Well, that's what The Shit is training
    its doggies for.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 20:38:15 2025
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 19:49, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 19:45, Old demented fart Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    .. I'am an engineer,

    Come on. This has 0% plausibility

    Put yout plausability straight into your
    dumb, fanatic, lying ass, where it belongs.
    Your slanders won't help anyway, the mumble
    of your idiot guru will remain inconsistent,
    as it has been proven, and I will remain
    an engineer.


    given the bunch of nonsense you
    posting here every single day for years.
    You are a demented old fart in the middle of nowhere.

    Yesterday you made some progress by admitting you lied then.

    A lie, as expected from a relativistic
    piece of shit.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 20:40:46 2025
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 19:54, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 19:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ... I'am an engineer,
    So I am not pretending [being] one.

    "One of the best logician Humanity ever had" (ah ah ah!) doesn't know
    that there it is perfectly possible to pretend being something AND being
    so as well as to pretend something AND no being so.


    pretend
    /prɪˈtɛnd/
    verb
    1.
    behave so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact
    it is not.

    Sorry, poor stinker, mistaken like always.
    DK effect is brutal.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 19:39:35 2025
    "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory." No, a theory can be falsified by showing its derivation is false. A false derivation does
    not predict, so it doesn't even amount to a theory.

    "> Mercury's
    perihelion of relativity is based on the assumption that gravity can be treated as electromagnetism.

    Nonsense!"
    No, relativity uses the speed of electromagnetism for gravity to explain
    the perihelion. Gravity is not electromagnetism. So relativity fails to
    explain the perihelion advance.

    "> Galileo and
    Eotvos showed everything, regardless of the mass or the substance, is affected the same by gravity. Relativity has not disproved that.

    Quite right.
    According to SR/GR, gravitational mass is the same as inertial mass.

    What was your point?"
    Paul, what is the point if you won't listen with any comprehension?
    Relativity claims light is affected differently, twice as much as
    everything else. It has not proven that light is affected differently
    from everything else. That is a stupid claim. It remains unproven.

    "> The
    velocity of both waves and particles includes the relative velocity of
    the observer, yet relativity irrationally denies this—pure lunacy.

    What are you trying to say?
    Do you mean that the velocity of a wave or particle relative to
    the observer includes the velocity of the observer?

    Please explain."

    That is what I plainly stated.

    I have the quote from Einstein and have shared it here before. He denies
    this fact in the case of light.

    "> Einstein has stated that if two different forces strike you with the
    same force, the effect will be the same! Pure genius! Poor quotes
    Einstein's explanation of his equivalence principle: "'The effect of gravitation upon ideal “clocks” and “measuring rods” at rest at a given
    point in a gravitational field is identically the same as that caused by
    a motion of the “clock” and “rod” through free space with a velocity equal to that which they would have acquired had they fallen, under the action of gravitation, from infinity to that point.'"

    How confused is it possible to be? :-D

    So you claim that according to Einstein, the equivalence principle
    is that a clock which is stationary in a gravitational field
    is affected the same way as a free falling clock!"

    What is the difference between what you said and the Einstein quote?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to Demented ranting kook Maciej Woznia on Wed Jan 15 19:45:27 2025
    Le 15/01/2025 à 20:38, Demented ranting kook Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    [SR] will remain inconsistent,
    I will remain an engineer.

    Your "proofs" have been debunked for ages.

    You've never been an engineer, and you'll never be.

    piece of shit.

    Nice signature though.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 21:16:25 2025
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 20:45, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 20:38, Demented ranting kook Maciej Wozniak wrote:
    [SR] will remain inconsistent,
    I will remain an engineer.

    Your "proofs" have been debunked for ages.

    Your screaming "NOOOOO!!!!", spitting and
    slandering is debunking nothing, sorry,
    poor stinker.



    You've never been an engineer, and you'll never be.

    I am an engineer and you're a mad of hatred,
    slandering idiot (but I guess you're an
    engineer too).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Wed Jan 15 21:18:40 2025
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 3:02:16 +0000, Sylvia Else wrote:

    On 12-Jan-25 1:16 am, rhertz wrote:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected
    by gravity.

    1) A photon with energy E, falling under gravity effects from height h,
    increases its energy by an amount

    ΔE = +mgh

    Using the equivalence m = E/c^2, its energy when it reaches ground is E
    + ΔE:


    E + ΔE = E (1 + gh/c^2)

    Using Planck's equivalence E = hf, it gives

    f + Δf = f (1 + gh/c^2)

    Then, under Newton, the frequency change is

    Δf/f = +gh/c^2

    The frequency of the photon increase by falling, and is blue-shifted.

    On the other way around, if a photon is escaping from ground, at an
    height h its frequency has decreased by

    Δf/f = -gh/c^2 (red-shifted)

    ******************************************************

    No relativity here. Only requires to accept the existence of
    gravitational mass and a given equivalence mass-energy.

    The problem is that this doesn't work. Two observers at different
    heights would see differing numbers of waves passing their respective locations per unit time. The observers would conclude that waves were accumulating between their two locations, or somehow just vanishing.

    Sylvia.
    If light were a wave, there would undoubtedly be compression waves.
    That's how it works. Whether light is a particle or a wave, the
    frequency varies with height. How can you pretend otherwise? Changing
    the unit of time would be deceitful.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 21:45:42 2025
    "I interpreted this as that Einstein somehow had "fixed"
    the predictions of GR to be in accordance with measurements
    shown on some photographic plates.

    In other words, LaurenceClarkCrossen claim that Einstein
    knew what the GR prediction should be to be in accordance
    with measurements."
    No. You misconstrued it. If you had read Poor, you would know it
    concerns the derivation being false. He did not suggest that Einstein
    adjust it afterward. You made that up.

    If you were interested in making an intelligent defense of relativity,
    you would not misrepresent its critics. You would have actually read
    them.

    You get offended so easily by misconstruing. Taking offense quickly is a
    tactic of ideologues seen in politics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Wed Jan 15 21:23:35 2025
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 6:16:51 +0000, Sylvia Else wrote:

    On 15-Jan-25 1:41 pm, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 3:02:16 +0000, Sylvia Else wrote:

    On 12-Jan-25 1:16 am, rhertz wrote:
    Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's affected >>>> by gravity.

    1) A photon with energy E, falling under gravity effects from height h, >>>> increases its energy by an amount

    ΔE = +mgh

    Using the equivalence m = E/c^2, its energy when it reaches ground is E >>>> + ΔE:


    E + ΔE = E (1 + gh/c^2)

    Using Planck's equivalence E = hf, it gives

    f + Δf = f (1 + gh/c^2)

    Then, under Newton, the frequency change is

    Δf/f = +gh/c^2

    The frequency of the photon increase by falling, and is blue-shifted.

    On the other way around, if a photon is escaping from ground, at an
    height h its frequency has decreased by

    Δf/f = -gh/c^2 (red-shifted)

    ******************************************************

    No relativity here. Only requires to accept the existence of
    gravitational mass and a given equivalence mass-energy.

    The problem is that this doesn't work. Two observers at different
    heights would see differing numbers of waves passing their respective
    locations per unit time. The observers would conclude that waves were
    accumulating between their two locations, or somehow just vanishing.

    Sylvia.
    This is a problem for you only because you want to pretend that light
    speed is constant while it is affected by gravity. For that, you invoke
    non-Euclidean geometry, which Python just pointed out can't accomplish.

    How does letting the speed of light vary solve the problem of
    accumulating waves?

    Even in situations where the speed of light does vary, such as when it
    enters a medium, we don't see changes in the frequency, since that would again create the problem of accumulating waves.

    Sylvia.
    Waves accumulate, and that's called compression waves. That's not a
    problem. It is exactly when light enters the medium of air from the
    vacuum of space that we see the change in frequency as compression waves
    form. Otherwise, we would not know that the relative speed of the Sun
    and Sirius is 5.5 km/sec.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 15 23:47:26 2025
    Le 15/01/2025 à 20:40, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 19:54, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 19:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ... I'am an engineer,
    So I am not pretending [being] one.

    "One of the best logician Humanity ever had" (ah ah ah!) doesn't know
    that there it is perfectly possible to pretend being something AND being
    so as well as to pretend something AND no being so.


    pretend
    /prɪˈtɛnd/
    verb
    1.
    behave so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact
    it is not.

    My mistake! (thank you, for once you are right, I learnt something).

    It happens that the French verb "prétendre" (same latin roots) has a
    slightly different meaning :

    "Demander quelque chose, le revendiquer pour soi. prétendre (se) v.pr.
    Dire, affirmer qu'on est tel, malgré les doutes possibles." (Larousse dictionary)

    "to affirm that one is such, *despite* being doubtful"

    which is a little weaker than the English acception, which happens to be:
    "to affirm that one is such, *while* it is false".

    Could any native English speakers here confirm this point? That in English
    "to pretend to be a dog" implies that you are NOT a dog, while in French "prétendre être un chien" does not exclude the the subject *may be* a
    dog, even if it is doubtful.

    Thank you Maciej, anyway.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 04:13:38 2025
    Le 16/01/2025 à 04:53, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit
    :
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 23:47:26 +0000, Python wrote:

    Le 15/01/2025 à 20:40, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 19:54, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 19:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ... I'am an engineer,
    So I am not pretending [being] one.

    "One of the best logician Humanity ever had" (ah ah ah!) doesn't know
    that there it is perfectly possible to pretend being something AND being >>>> so as well as to pretend something AND no being so.


    pretend
    /prɪˈtɛnd/
    verb
    1.
    behave so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact
    it is not.

    My mistake! (thank you, for once you are right, I learnt something).

    It happens that the French verb "prétendre" (same latin roots) has a
    slightly different meaning :

    "Demander quelque chose, le revendiquer pour soi. prétendre (se) v.pr.
    Dire, affirmer qu'on est tel, malgré les doutes possibles." (Larousse
    dictionary)

    "to affirm that one is such, *despite* being doubtful"

    which is a little weaker than the English acception, which happens to
    be:
    "to affirm that one is such, *while* it is false".

    Could any native English speakers here confirm this point? That in
    English
    "to pretend to be a dog" implies that you are NOT a dog, while in French
    "prétendre être un chien" does not exclude the the subject *may be* a
    dog, even if it is doubtful.

    Thank you Maciej, anyway.
    In 19th-century England, people spoke of having pretenses of being
    someone, such as Einstein, who claimed to be a physicist. Interestingly,
    the idea of having pretenses could also imply making a real attempt
    rather than faking it like Einstein.

    LaurenceClarkCrossen, I know that you are not a sincere poster, you are a troll, a joke, a provocation, than you don't think a single word of your
    claims about Relativity or Einstein, that your name is certainly not
    Laurence Clark Crossen, and that you seem to have fun. Anyway could you
    refrain to answer such asinine answers? Thanks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Python on Thu Jan 16 03:53:13 2025
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 23:47:26 +0000, Python wrote:

    Le 15/01/2025 à 20:40, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 19:54, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 19:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ... I'am an engineer,
    So I am not pretending [being] one.

    "One of the best logician Humanity ever had" (ah ah ah!) doesn't know
    that there it is perfectly possible to pretend being something AND being >>> so as well as to pretend something AND no being so.


    pretend
    /prɪˈtɛnd/
    verb
    1.
    behave so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact
    it is not.

    My mistake! (thank you, for once you are right, I learnt something).

    It happens that the French verb "prétendre" (same latin roots) has a slightly different meaning :

    "Demander quelque chose, le revendiquer pour soi. prétendre (se) v.pr.
    Dire, affirmer qu'on est tel, malgré les doutes possibles." (Larousse dictionary)

    "to affirm that one is such, *despite* being doubtful"

    which is a little weaker than the English acception, which happens to
    be:
    "to affirm that one is such, *while* it is false".

    Could any native English speakers here confirm this point? That in
    English
    "to pretend to be a dog" implies that you are NOT a dog, while in French "prétendre être un chien" does not exclude the the subject *may be* a
    dog, even if it is doubtful.

    Thank you Maciej, anyway.
    In 19th-century England, people spoke of having pretenses of being
    someone, such as Einstein, who claimed to be a physicist. Interestingly,
    the idea of having pretenses could also imply making a real attempt
    rather than faking it like Einstein.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to rhertz on Thu Jan 16 05:00:07 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 1:41:44 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 0:36:33 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

    <snip>

    "This is exactly double the value given in 1911, and this doubling
    of values has given rise to many speculations, and to many and
    varied explanations, on the part of the relativists.
    An inspection of the formulas, which Einstein used, shows
    exactly what he did and how he derived this result. The essential
    factor in the formula is that for the rate of change of velocity
    along the wave-front 6c, 6x ; and this is the only factor in which
    any change can be made. All the other terms and factors of the
    formula are always identically the same." - Poor = "THE RELATIVITY
    DEFLECTION OF LIGHT!"

    Years ago, I posted that when Einstein published his 1915 paper on
    Mercury, he included a couple of paragraphs announcing that he doubled
    his 1911 value due to his work with GR.

    It's all on his 1915 paper, in a single line: Equation 7c.



    Einstein had it easy. He modified Newton's potential Φ = - GM/r for
    Φ = - GM/r (1 + B^2/r^2), in his equation (7c). This was in geometrical units.

    In physical units, Eq 7c is Φ(r) = - GMm/r [1 + B^2/(mcr)^2]

    Long story short: In the same paper, and using this change, he managed
    to obtain Gerber's formula and 43" and, as a bonus, DOUBLED the
    gravitational potential on the formula for deflection of starlight, used
    in 1911.

    ψ(1911) = 1/c2 2GM/RS = 0.85 arcsec
    ψ(1915) = 2 x ψ(1911) = 1/c2 4GM/RS = 1.75 arcsec

    The key for this "magic prediction" is simple. The extra (1 + B^2/r^2)
    factor in Φ(r), in physical units, is [1 + B^2/(mcr)^2]


    B = mr2ω is the constant angular momentum, under Newton's Law of Gravitation,

    so

    Φ(r) = - GMm/r (1 + r^2ω^2/c^2)


    He made Rs.ω = c at the perigee of the trajectory, at which the test particle has maximum speed.

    But it implies a variable speed of light, besides that "photons" have
    mass and suffer gravitational attraction.

    This is the Newtonian equation that Einstein seek, using 80% of the
    paper, before changing for a new Φ:

    m [r^2 (dɸ/dt)^2 + (dr/dt)^2] - GMm/r = 2E (E < 0, the total energy of
    the system, is CONSTANT).

    The above equations describe any elliptic, parabolic or hyperbolic
    orbit, and was used by Einstein TWICE:

    1) To get the final expression of the advance of Mercury's perihelion in
    an orbit with e = 0.2025 and E < 0.

    2) For the deflection of light, at the perigee of an hyperbolic
    trajectory of a photon, with r = Rs, e >> 1, E > 0.

    Einstein REFUSED to show his calculations for 2) and only presented the
    new value for deflection of light plus a lot of gobbledygook using GR. Astronomers and physicists from ALL OVER the world asked Einstein to
    present his calculations. Einstein NEVER delivered them.

    Why did Einstein refused to show his derivation? Because he had to
    explain:

    1) The use of light as "quanta of energy" (A.K.A. photons) having mass m
    = hf/c^2.

    2) The change of the bounded elliptic orbit of Mercury, with e = 0.2025
    into a highly eccentric hyperbolic orbit (e > 200,000), which passed by
    the Sun at its perigee (r = RS).

    3) The angular momentum at the perigee, B(RS) = m.RS.c. In this way, the quotient between brackets of ψ(RS) became equal to 1, DOUBLING the gravitational potential.

    4) Making the angular velocity of the photon at the orbit's perigee: c =
    RS. ωMAX, implied a VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT in the trajectory of the
    photon:
    c' = rω (only reaching c at r = RS).

    He had a LOT OF THINGS to explain. And because of the above points, his ETERNAL SILENCE.


    So, his announcement in 1915 came to the fact that in the modified gravitational potential

    Φ(r) = - GMm/r (1 + r^2ω^2/c^2)


    he made r.ω = c, for which Φ(r_sun) = - GMm/r_sun (1 + 1).

    Doubling the potential when starlight graze the Sun's surface DOUBLED
    the 1911 Newtonian value, AT THE COST OF A VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT IN
    THAT POINT.


    He NEVER, EVER showed his calculations. That's why, in 1930, Poor was
    calling him (LITERALLY) a fraudulent crock.
    Since Einstein employed Huygens' principle using Huygens' formula for refraction, he would have had to use a refractive index that doubled
    Newtonian. That is just pure invention.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Python on Thu Jan 16 04:48:04 2025
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 4:13:38 +0000, Python wrote:

    Le 16/01/2025 à 04:53, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit
    :
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 23:47:26 +0000, Python wrote:

    Le 15/01/2025 à 20:40, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 19:54, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 19:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ... I'am an engineer,
    So I am not pretending [being] one.

    "One of the best logician Humanity ever had" (ah ah ah!) doesn't know >>>>> that there it is perfectly possible to pretend being something AND being >>>>> so as well as to pretend something AND no being so.


    pretend
    /prɪˈtɛnd/
    verb
    1.
    behave so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact >>>> it is not.

    My mistake! (thank you, for once you are right, I learnt something).

    It happens that the French verb "prétendre" (same latin roots) has a
    slightly different meaning :

    "Demander quelque chose, le revendiquer pour soi. prétendre (se) v.pr.
    Dire, affirmer qu'on est tel, malgré les doutes possibles." (Larousse
    dictionary)

    "to affirm that one is such, *despite* being doubtful"

    which is a little weaker than the English acception, which happens to
    be:
    "to affirm that one is such, *while* it is false".

    Could any native English speakers here confirm this point? That in
    English
    "to pretend to be a dog" implies that you are NOT a dog, while in French >>> "prétendre être un chien" does not exclude the the subject *may be* a
    dog, even if it is doubtful.

    Thank you Maciej, anyway.
    In 19th-century England, people spoke of having pretenses of being
    someone, such as Einstein, who claimed to be a physicist. Interestingly,
    the idea of having pretenses could also imply making a real attempt
    rather than faking it like Einstein.

    LaurenceClarkCrossen, I know that you are not a sincere poster, you are
    a
    troll, a joke, a provocation, than you don't think a single word of your claims about Relativity or Einstein, that your name is certainly not
    Laurence Clark Crossen, and that you seem to have fun. Anyway could you refrain to answer such asinine answers? Thanks.
    Really, relativity is asinine, and those who seek to deplatform and
    drive out others are the most asinine.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 07:50:16 2025
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 00:47, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 20:40, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 15.01.2025 o 19:54, Python pisze:
    Le 15/01/2025 à 19:45, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ... I'am an engineer,
    So I am not pretending [being] one.

    "One of the best logician Humanity ever had" (ah ah ah!) doesn't know
    that there it is perfectly possible to pretend being something AND
    being so as well as to pretend something AND no being so.


    pretend
    /prɪˈtɛnd/
    verb
    1.
    behave so as to make it appear that something is the case when in fact
    it is not.

    My mistake! (thank you, for once you are right, I learnt something).

    It happens that the French verb "prétendre" (same latin roots) has a slightly different meaning :

    "Demander quelque chose, le revendiquer pour soi. prétendre (se) v.pr.
    Dire, affirmer qu'on est tel, malgré les doutes possibles." (Larousse dictionary)

    "to affirm that one is such, *despite* being doubtful"

    which is a little weaker than the English acception, which happens to
    be: "to affirm that one is such, *while* it is false".

    Could any native English speakers here confirm this point? That in
    English "to pretend to be a dog" implies that you are NOT a dog, while
    in French "prétendre être un chien" does not exclude the the subject
    *may be* a dog, even if it is doubtful.

    Thank you Maciej, anyway.

    Oh, great!
    Have you also learnt, that nurses waiting
    to change my sheets are a false statement
    intended to damage my reputation, i.e. a
    "slander"?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 08:37:05 2025
    Am Montag000013, 13.01.2025 um 16:06 schrieb Richard Hachel:
    Le 13/01/2025 à 06:07, [email protected] (LaurenceClarkCrossen) a écrit :
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 1:31:59 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates? Poor did, and he completely repudiated the
    findings of Eddington. This should have given pause to any ethical
    scientist.
    Here are some quotes from Poor's summary: "The mathematical
    formula, by which Einstein calculated his deflection of 1.75
    seconds for light rays passing the edge of the sun, is a well known
    and simple formula of physical optics"; "Not a single one of the
    fundamental concepts of varying time, or warped or twisted space,
    of simultaneity, or of the relativity of motion is in any way involved
    in Einstein's prediction of, or formulas for, the deflection of light";
    "The many and elaborate eclipse expeditions have, therefore,
    been given a fictitious importance. Their results can neither prove
    nor disprove the relativity theory" (emphasis added) (Poor, 1930)." -
    saved pdf = "Albert Einsetin, Plagiarist of the Century" p.9

    Einstein is an artificial media creation. Like Emmanuel Macron or Greta Thunberg. No more.

    I do not agree here, but partially.

    I had doubts about the CV of Einstein and regard certain aspects of
    his life as impossible.

    For instance he went alone to Aarau in Switzerland to attend school
    there (from Pavia in Italy, where his family lived at that time).

    But this was, at least, unusual for a teenager.

    My bet: his CV was a complete fake and Einstein was Swiss from birth.

    Possibly his name and other aspects of his identity were also faked.

    From his habits and physiognomy I would think, that cafe-house musician
    would fit and possibly Hungarian origin.

    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 09:00:25 2025
    Am Dienstag000014, 14.01.2025 um 17:51 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 16:49, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:42, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither here
    nor elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    Again - a fanatic idiot can never be convinced
    that he is a fanatic idiot, no surprise in
    that.

    All of Humanity but Maciej Wozniak are "fanatic idiots"? You need >
    medical help, Maciej.

    Al of humanity comes for  discussing on a
    physics newsgroup? You need medical help,
    Python.



    I would guess, that about a third of the 'regulars' here (and in other
    UseNet groups) are actually AI and not human at all.

    It is not always possibly to evade AI, so we have to live with that and respond, as if the computers were human.

    TH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 16:01:44 2025
    Le 16/01/2025 à 09:00, Thomas Heger a écrit :
    Am Dienstag000014, 14.01.2025 um 17:51 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
    W dniu 14.01.2025 o 16:49, Python pisze:
    Le 14/01/2025 à 16:42, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    ..
    Again, how come you are incapable of convincing ANYONE neither here
    nor elsewhere that your rant is a proper proof of anything?

    Again - a fanatic idiot can never be convinced
    that he is a fanatic idiot, no surprise in
    that.

    All of Humanity but Maciej Wozniak are "fanatic idiots"? You need >
    medical help, Maciej.

    Al of humanity comes for  discussing on a
    physics newsgroup? You need medical help,
    Python.



    I would guess, that about a third of the 'regulars' here (and in other
    UseNet groups) are actually AI and not human at all.

    It is not always possibly to evade AI, so we have to live with that and respond, as if the computers were human.

    TH

    That would explain the demented content of your posts: you are an
    hallucinating LLM ‘AI’ !

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 19:14:12 2025
    Den 15.01.2025 22:45, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "I interpreted this as that Einstein somehow had "fixed"
    the predictions of GR to be in accordance with measurements
    shown on some photographic plates.

    In other words, LaurenceClarkCrossen claim that Einstein
    knew what the GR prediction should be to be in accordance
    with measurements."

    Agree.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 20:11:28 2025
    Den 15.01.2025 18:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists
    have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    If the derivation is wrong, it doesn't predict. You didn't understand
    what Poor said. Poor has directly addressed the "4" in your equation.

    Understand this:
    The equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct because experiments have
    shown that its predictions are correct within the precision
    of the measurements, which are in the order of ±0.005%.

    The equation Θ = 2GM/Δ⋅c² is proven wrong by +100%.

    Poor had the excuse that he didn't know this because all
    the precise measurements are made more that 70 years after
    he wrote his paper.

    But you have no excuse. Is is indeed idiotic to claim
    that the equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong when it is so
    thoroughly well confirmed to be correct.

    How is it possible to fail to understand this?

    After refusing to divulge his derivation for his doubling, Einstein
    finally asserted he got it by employing Huygens' principle. That formula
    is for calculating refraction. Then Einstein admits to adding
    gravitational effect and refraction to get his doubling. You keep
    appealing to the majority and authority instead of reason.



    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 19:17:59 2025
    Den 15.01.2025 20:39, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    So you have finally learned.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 20:23:59 2025
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:11, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
    Den 15.01.2025 18:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists
    have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    If the derivation is wrong, it doesn't predict. You didn't understand
    what Poor said. Poor has directly addressed the "4" in your equation.

    Understand this:
    The equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct

    A pity it's not The Shit's equation for
    light deflection.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 19:25:01 2025
    Le 16/01/2025 à 20:23, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:11, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
    Den 15.01.2025 18:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists
    have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    If the derivation is wrong, it doesn't predict. You didn't understand
    what Poor said. Poor has directly addressed the "4" in your equation.

    Understand this:
    The equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct

    A pity it's not [GR] equation for
    light deflection.

    Really? So what is it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 20:29:51 2025
    Den 15.01.2025 18:46, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    Your opinion and that of the majority and the authorities are irrelevant fantasies.

    Quite.
    Anybody's fantasies are irrelevant.

    But the experimental evidence is reality, not fantasy.

    GR's predictions for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    are so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have done
    by mentioning his paper.

    How is it possible to fail to understand that experimental
    evidence has proven Poor wrong?

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 20:47:55 2025
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:25, Python pisze:
    Le 16/01/2025 à 20:23, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:11, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
    Den 15.01.2025 18:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists
    have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    If the derivation is wrong, it doesn't predict. You didn't understand
    what Poor said. Poor has directly addressed the "4" in your equation.

    Understand this:
    The equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct

    A pity it's not [GR] equation for
    light deflection.

    Really? So what is it?

    A formula valid in a model joining
    good, old Euclidean geometry with
    some minor schemas of The Shit.

    Poincare has been explaining - you
    can reject EG, but it's stupid and
    will serve you ill. So with all
    of those ideological screams of its
    alleged incompability with the
    reality - your bunch of idiots is
    still applying it everywhere and
    pretending it is not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 20:35:26 2025
    Den 15.01.2025 06:31, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    Euclidean geometry is for planes, and non-Euclidean geometry is for
    other surfaces, such as spheres. Space is not a curved surface.

    One can but admire your sharp observation that space is not a surface.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 20:49:13 2025
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:29, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:

    GR's predictions for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation

    According to your GR shit light [in
    vacuum] doesn't deflect and takes always
    straight/geodesic paths.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul B. Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 20:57:04 2025
    Den 15.01.2025 22:23, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    Waves accumulate, and that's called compression waves. That's not a
    problem. It is exactly when light enters the medium of air from the
    vacuum of space that we see the change in frequency as compression waves form. Otherwise, we would not know that the relative speed of the Sun
    and Sirius is 5.5 km/sec.

    A very interesting theory!

    We know that the radial speed of Sirrius is 5.5 km/s
    because light changes frequency when it enters the atmosphere!

    Well done, Laurence! :-D

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul B. Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 20:58:15 2025
    Den 15.01.2025 22:23, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 6:16:51 +0000, Sylvia Else wrote:


    Even in situations where the speed of light does vary, such as when it
    enters a medium, we don't see changes in the frequency, since that would
    again create the problem of accumulating waves.

    Sylvia.

    Waves accumulate, and that's called compression waves. That's not a
    problem. It is exactly when light enters the medium of air from the
    vacuum of space that we see the change in frequency as compression waves form. Otherwise, we would not know that the relative speed of the Sun
    and Sirius is 5.5 km/sec.

    A very interesting theory!

    We know that the radial speed of Sirrius is 5.5 km/s
    because light changes frequency when it enters the atmosphere!

    Well done, Laurence! :-D

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 19:58:55 2025
    Le 16/01/2025 à 20:49, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:29, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:

    GR's predictions for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation

    According to your GR shit light [in
    vacuum] doesn't deflect and takes always
    straight/geodesic paths.

    According to math the projection of a geodesic/straight line in a given
    space onto a sup-space is not necessarily a geodesic/straight line in this sub-space.

    It is true also in Euclidean Geometry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Python@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 19:56:45 2025
    Le 16/01/2025 à 20:47, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:25, Python pisze:
    Le 16/01/2025 à 20:23, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:11, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
    Den 15.01.2025 18:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists
    have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    If the derivation is wrong, it doesn't predict. You didn't understand >>>>> what Poor said. Poor has directly addressed the "4" in your equation. >>>>
    Understand this:
    The equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct

    A pity it's not [GR] equation for
    light deflection.

    Really? So what is it?

    A formula valid in a model joining
    good, old Euclidean geometry with
    some minor schemas of The Shit.

    Poincare has been explaining - you
    can reject EG, but it's stupid and
    will serve you ill. So with all
    of those ideological screams of its
    alleged incompability with the
    reality - your bunch of idiots is
    still applying it everywhere and
    pretending it is not.

    I didn't ask for incoherent babble. I asked for a formula.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 22:17:17 2025
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:58, Python pisze:
    Le 16/01/2025 à 20:49, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:29, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:

    GR's predictions for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation

    According to your GR shit light [in
    vacuum] doesn't deflect and takes always
    straight/geodesic paths.

    According to math the projection of a geodesic/straight line in a given
    space onto a sup-space is not necessarily a geodesic/straight line in
    this sub-space.

    Of course, but in your moronic religion
    light has some special properties, doesn't
    it?

    I've already asked you - if a light path is not -
    HOW do you recognize a space geodesic?
    Still no answer? Of course, poor stinker.

    Really - you're recognizing it by ...
    having the properties of an Euclidean
    straight line. But it is surely not what
    your idiot guru told you you should
    do to recognize it.
    Or is it?

    And another question: why is graviattional
    lensing [according to your madness] demonstrating
    non-Euclidean space and ordinary lensing
    isn't?

    You don't know, of course, so I will answer
    for you: because a light path in GR shit
    is a straight line, so gravitational lensing
    is violating the axiom of "2 points - one
    straight line".
    There is NO light deflection in The Shit.

    Poincare has been explaining. We have a
    choice: either non-euclidean space with
    straight light paths or euclidean space
    with curved light paths. Poincare has
    also said that any sane mind will choose 2.
    You're not sane but you're not insane enough
    to choose 1; you're only insane enough
    to pretend you choose 1.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Hachel@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 17 01:54:06 2025
    Le 16/01/2025 à 19:15, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
    "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    So you have finally learned.

    This is false.

    A theoretical proof can do it too.

    You take the theory of special relativity, and you study it as Dr. Hachel
    did for forty years.

    If there are eggshells in the omelette, theoretical shells, it is because
    the theory is not clear. I am not saying that it is false, I am saying
    that it is not entirely clear.

    It is very easy to demonstrate but human terror being what it is it is not
    easy to tell certain truths. 95% of scientists panic and are terrified.

    Yet it is very easily demonstrated, the RR has no chance of being true by
    its simple internal inconsistency concerning the Langevin paradox (poorly explained) and the fact that we cannot, for Stella in her frame of
    reference, see the earth coming back towards her for 9 years of her
    return, with a frightening apparent speed of 4c (this is the apparent
    speed of a body hurtling at 0.8c towards another) and this over a
    contraction of distances of 7.2 light years.

    It is absurd.

    The fact that I am the only one to lift the paradox, provoking laughter, threats, defamation and contempt, shows the extraordinary (whatever one
    says) intellectual crustiness of our time.

    The more stupid we are, the more we appear on TV and on all the radios.

    Tell the truth, and you will be immediately ostracized, including by those
    who should hold the scepter of rationality, but only think of their little position in the physics laboratory or on forums.

    I repeat, we can make theoretical refutations if the theory has internal contradictions, and this is the case in several places (Langevin, apparent speeds, Ehrenfest paradox, proper time of accelerated objects,
    integrations done haphazardly, etc.)

    R.H.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 17 07:05:30 2025
    W dniu 17.01.2025 o 02:54, Richard Hachel pisze:
    Le 16/01/2025 à 19:15, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
    "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    So you have finally learned.

    This is false.

    A theoretical proof can do it too.

    You take the theory of special relativity, and you study it as Dr.
    Hachel did for forty years.

    And you have a great chance that studying The Shit
    for 40 years will serve you as ill as it served
    dr Hachel.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 17 07:00:19 2025
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:56, Python pisze:
    Le 16/01/2025 à 20:47, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:25, Python pisze:
    Le 16/01/2025 à 20:23, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
    W dniu 16.01.2025 o 20:11, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
    Den 15.01.2025 18:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists >>>>>>> have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ? >>>>>>>
    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    If the derivation is wrong, it doesn't predict. You didn't understand >>>>>> what Poor said. Poor has directly addressed the "4" in your equation. >>>>>
    Understand this:
    The equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct

    A pity it's not [GR] equation for
    light deflection.

    Really? So what is it?

    A formula valid in a model joining
    good, old Euclidean geometry with
    some minor schemas of The Shit.

    Poincare has been explaining - you
    can reject EG, but it's stupid and
    will serve you ill. So with all
    of those ideological screams  of its
    alleged incompability with the
    reality - your bunch of idiots is
    still applying it  everywhere and
    pretending it is not.

    I didn't ask for incoherent babble. I asked for a formula.

    And I answerred about the formula.
    It's not my fault that Poincare is
    too much for your birdy brain.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Fri Jan 17 19:45:21 2025
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 18:14:12 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 22:45, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "I interpreted this as that Einstein somehow had "fixed"
    the predictions of GR to be in accordance with measurements
    shown on some photographic plates.

    In other words, LaurenceClarkCrossen claim that Einstein
    knew what the GR prediction should be to be in accordance
    with measurements."

    Agree.
    Paul: Above you seem to have attributed to me words I did not write.

    Your argument is that if the derivation was incorrect, how did it
    amount to the same as the actual empirical findings? Laurence must be
    saying that Einstein could magically predict the correct amount without
    a correct derivation. However, one can correctly predict horse races
    using astrology. That is not an accusation of rigging the race. That
    would be luck if the derivation is wrong. The issue is the derivation.
    How was the doubling derived? Huygens' principle is about refraction,
    which would add refraction to Newtonian—granted that light has exhibited
    a wave-particle duality. Does that give us a license to add the two
    together?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Fri Jan 17 21:07:24 2025
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 18:14:12 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 22:45, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "I interpreted this as that Einstein somehow had "fixed"
    the predictions of GR to be in accordance with measurements
    shown on some photographic plates.

    In other words, LaurenceClarkCrossen claim that Einstein
    knew what the GR prediction should be to be in accordance
    with measurements."

    Agree.
    I did not say that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Fri Jan 17 21:08:58 2025
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 18:17:59 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 20:39, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    So you have finally learned.
    I did not say that. Again, you are misquoting. If the derivation is
    wrong, it's not even a theory.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Fri Jan 17 21:17:00 2025
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:51 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 18:46, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    Your opinion and that of the majority and the authorities are irrelevant
    fantasies.

    Quite.
    Anybody's fantasies are irrelevant.

    But the experimental evidence is reality, not fantasy.

    GR's predictions for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    are so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have done
    by mentioning his paper.

    How is it possible to fail to understand that experimental
    evidence has proven Poor wrong?
    You must be extremely ignorant to think an experiment can prove a false derivation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Fri Jan 17 21:20:12 2025
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:35:26 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 06:31, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    Euclidean geometry is for planes, and non-Euclidean geometry is for
    other surfaces, such as spheres. Space is not a curved surface.

    One can but admire your sharp observation that space is not a surface.
    It is sad that you can't recognize that non-Euclidean geometry applied
    to space is a reification fallacy because space is not a surface.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Fri Jan 17 21:14:11 2025
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:11:28 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 18:36, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:


    I ask you again:
    Why do you not understand that Einstein and many other physicists
    have shown that it is a fact that GR predicts Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² ?

    Your opinion of GR is irrelevant.

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    If the derivation is wrong, it doesn't predict. You didn't understand
    what Poor said. Poor has directly addressed the "4" in your equation.

    Understand this:
    The equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct because experiments have
    shown that its predictions are correct within the precision
    of the measurements, which are in the order of ±0.005%.

    The equation Θ = 2GM/Δ⋅c² is proven wrong by +100%.

    Poor had the excuse that he didn't know this because all
    the precise measurements are made more that 70 years after
    he wrote his paper.

    But you have no excuse. Is is indeed idiotic to claim
    that the equation Θ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong when it is so
    thoroughly well confirmed to be correct.

    How is it possible to fail to understand this?

    How is it possible for you to fail to address the issue of the
    derivation? The experiments can't prove a false derivation.

    After refusing to divulge his derivation for his doubling, Einstein
    finally asserted he got it by employing Huygens' principle. That formula
    is for calculating refraction. Then Einstein admits to adding
    gravitational effect and refraction to get his doubling. You keep
    appealing to the majority and authority instead of reason.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to rhertz on Fri Jan 17 22:01:52 2025
    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:53:11 +0000, rhertz wrote:

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:17:00 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:51 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 18:46, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    Your opinion and that of the majority and the authorities are irrelevant >>>> fantasies.

    Quite.
    Anybody's fantasies are irrelevant.

    But the experimental evidence is reality, not fantasy.

    GR's predictions for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    are so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have done >>>> by mentioning his paper.

    How is it possible to fail to understand that experimental
    evidence has proven Poor wrong?
    You must be extremely ignorant to think an experiment can prove a false
    derivation.


    Paul is not extremely ignorant.

    Paul is EXTREMELY INDOCTRINATED. Such indoctrination, shown here FOR
    ALMOST 30 YEARS, was originated on RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, not on scientific beliefs.

    Paul has to obey, in order to belong. After all, he's nothing more than
    a failed EE who needed to believe in something else besides TUTORING how
    to program PICs in the '90s.

    Poor soul. It must SUCK to be him.
    Yes, he can't question the derivation!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to LaurenceClarkCrossen on Sat Jan 18 11:29:45 2025
    LaurenceClarkCrossen <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:51 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 18:46, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    Your opinion and that of the majority and the authorities are irrelevant >> fantasies.

    Quite.
    Anybody's fantasies are irrelevant.

    But the experimental evidence is reality, not fantasy.

    GR's predictions for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    are so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have done >> by mentioning his paper.

    How is it possible to fail to understand that experimental
    evidence has proven Poor wrong?
    You must be extremely ignorant to think an experiment can prove a false derivation.

    Correct.
    However, if a derivation leads to a result that is obviously at variance
    with what is well known about the world it looses much of its interest.
    It becomes a 'spot the error' puzzle.

    You can't blame people for not having a taste for that,

    Jan
    (hasn't)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 18 14:15:41 2025
    Den 17.01.2025 22:17, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:51 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 18:46, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have done >>> by mentioning his paper.

    How is it possible to fail to understand that experimental
    evidence has proven Poor wrong?

    The equation for the total deflection is:
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c²
    where:
    Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
    c = speed of light in vacuum
    G = gravitational constant
    M = solar mass
    
    The equation for the deflection observed from the Earth is:
    Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ)
    where:
     φ = angle Star-Sun as observed from the Earth

    This equation is derived from the equation for total deflection
    with a bit of geometry.

    These equations are thoroughly confirmed to be correct because
    experiments have shown that their predictions are correct within
    the precision of the measurements, which are in the order of ±0.005%.

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You must be extremely ignorant to think an experiment can prove a false derivation.

    The experiments say nothing about the correctness
    of any derivations, they only show that the equations
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² and Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ) are correct.

    Since Poor claims that the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong,
    Poor is proven wrong.

    Do you really believe that the derivation was wrong but
    the result of the derivation was right?
    Possible, but not probable.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 18 14:52:00 2025
    W dniu 18.01.2025 o 14:15, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
    Den 17.01.2025 22:17, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:51 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 18:46, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have
    done
    by mentioning his paper.

    How is it possible to fail to understand that experimental
    evidence has proven Poor wrong?

    The equation for the total deflection is:
      Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c²


    According to The Shit of your idiot guru light [in
    vacuum] doesn't deflect, it always takes a straight/
    geodesic path. Sorry, trash.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 18 14:50:11 2025
    Den 17.01.2025 22:08, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    Den 15.01.2025 20:39, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    I did not say that.

    Yes, you did.

    Again, you are misquoting.

    No, the quote above is correct.

    You and I know that it was a quotation of me.
    But nobody but you and I can know that, everybody else would
    see that YOU wrote: "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    You have a nasty habit of snipping the attributions!

    Citing people in such a way that you appear to be the author
    is a fallacy.

    Learn elementary netiquette DON'T SNIP THE ATTRIBUTIONS!

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Sat Jan 18 19:45:58 2025
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:50:11 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 17.01.2025 22:08, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    Den 15.01.2025 20:39, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    I did not say that.

    Yes, you did.

    Again, you are misquoting.

    No, the quote above is correct.

    You and I know that it was a quotation of me.
    But nobody but you and I can know that, everybody else would
    see that YOU wrote: "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    You have a nasty habit of snipping the attributions!

    Citing people in such a way that you appear to be the author
    is a fallacy.

    Learn elementary netiquette DON'T SNIP THE ATTRIBUTIONS!
    All your words were put into quotations by me so anyone can see who said
    them who followed the thread. Gripe, gripe, gripe. You're the one who
    outright lied about what I said.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Sat Jan 18 20:00:10 2025
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:15:41 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 17.01.2025 22:17, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:51 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 18:46, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have done >>>> by mentioning his paper.

    How is it possible to fail to understand that experimental
    evidence has proven Poor wrong?

    The equation for the total deflection is:
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c²
    where:
    Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
    c = speed of light in vacuum
    G = gravitational constant
    M = solar mass
    
    The equation for the deflection observed from the Earth is:
    Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ)
    where:
     φ = angle Star-Sun as observed from the Earth

    This equation is derived from the equation for total deflection
    with a bit of geometry.

    These equations are thoroughly confirmed to be correct because
    experiments have shown that their predictions are correct within
    the precision of the measurements, which are in the order of ±0.005%.

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You must be extremely ignorant to think an experiment can prove a false
    derivation.

    The experiments say nothing about the correctness
    of any derivations, they only show that the equations
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² and Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ) are correct.

    Since Poor claims that the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong,
    Poor is proven wrong.

    Do you really believe that the derivation was wrong but
    the result of the derivation was right?
    Possible, but not probable.
    The "4" in the equation comes from non-Euclidean geometry, "curved
    space." This derivation is incorrect because space is not a surface, so
    it does not curve. You keep deflecting from the derivation to the
    experiments. All I've been talking about is the derivation. Didn't you
    listen? If the experiments obtained correct results, that does not make
    the derivation correct. Don't be stupid. It doesn't make space curved.
    That is an elementary logical fallacy.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Sat Jan 18 21:30:29 2025
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:15:41 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 17.01.2025 22:17, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:51 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 18:46, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have done >>>> by mentioning his paper.

    How is it possible to fail to understand that experimental
    evidence has proven Poor wrong?

    The equation for the total deflection is:
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c²
    where:
    Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
    c = speed of light in vacuum
    G = gravitational constant
    M = solar mass
    
    The equation for the deflection observed from the Earth is:
    Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ)
    where:
     φ = angle Star-Sun as observed from the Earth

    This equation is derived from the equation for total deflection
    with a bit of geometry.

    These equations are thoroughly confirmed to be correct because
    experiments have shown that their predictions are correct within
    the precision of the measurements, which are in the order of ±0.005%.

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You must be extremely ignorant to think an experiment can prove a false
    derivation.

    The experiments say nothing about the correctness
    of any derivations, they only show that the equations
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² and Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ) are correct.

    Since Poor claims that the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong,
    Poor is proven wrong.

    Do you really believe that the derivation was wrong but
    the result of the derivation was right?
    Possible, but not probable.
    Paul you're doing astrology. I suppose you can tell my Sun sign!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Sat Jan 18 21:29:18 2025
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:50:11 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 17.01.2025 22:08, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    Den 15.01.2025 20:39, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    I did not say that.

    Yes, you did.

    Again, you are misquoting.

    No, the quote above is correct.

    You and I know that it was a quotation of me.
    But nobody but you and I can know that, everybody else would
    see that YOU wrote: "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    You have a nasty habit of snipping the attributions!

    Citing people in such a way that you appear to be the author
    is a fallacy.

    Learn elementary netiquette DON'T SNIP THE ATTRIBUTIONS!
    Your point is such silly, illogical nonsense because I used quotation
    marks showing it was not me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Sat Jan 18 21:31:55 2025
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:50:11 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 17.01.2025 22:08, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    Den 15.01.2025 20:39, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    I did not say that.

    Yes, you did.

    Again, you are misquoting.

    No, the quote above is correct.

    You and I know that it was a quotation of me.
    But nobody but you and I can know that, everybody else would
    see that YOU wrote: "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    You have a nasty habit of snipping the attributions!

    Citing people in such a way that you appear to be the author
    is a fallacy.

    Learn elementary netiquette DON'T SNIP THE ATTRIBUTIONS!
    You only engage in ad hominem to avoid defending the derivation from
    curved space.

    You have not shown that I wrote those things because you cannot. I did
    not.

    You have only proven you cannot defend the derivation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to J. J. Lodder on Sat Jan 18 21:36:13 2025
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 10:29:45 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:

    LaurenceClarkCrossen <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:51 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 18:46, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:00:31 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    GR's prediction for the gravitational deflection
    is confirmed by a number of experiments:

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf

    You know, experimental evidence _is_ the reality.
    Your opinion is fantasy.

    Your opinion and that of the majority and the authorities are irrelevant >>>> fantasies.

    Quite.
    Anybody's fantasies are irrelevant.

    But the experimental evidence is reality, not fantasy.

    GR's predictions for the gravitational deflection of EM-radiation
    are so thoroughly experimentally confirmed that you have to be
    extremely ignorant not to accept it.

    You fail to address Poor's refutation of the derivation. If
    you want to do that, you would need to bring up Trumpler, as I have done >>>> by mentioning his paper.

    How is it possible to fail to understand that experimental
    evidence has proven Poor wrong?
    You must be extremely ignorant to think an experiment can prove a false
    derivation.

    Correct.
    However, if a derivation leads to a result that is obviously at variance
    with what is well known about the world it looses much of its interest.
    It becomes a 'spot the error' puzzle.

    You can't blame people for not having a taste for that,

    Jan
    (hasn't)
    When a derivation involves facile logical fallacies it has no value.
    You're appeals to experiment deflect from the issue. That's how
    ideologues defend their politics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Sat Jan 18 23:35:48 2025
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:50:11 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    You and I know that it was a quotation of me.
    But nobody but you and I can know that, everybody else would
    see that YOU wrote: "Only experimental evidence can falsify a theory."

    Citing people in such a way that you appear to be the author
    is a fallacy.

    So, Paul, you accept that space is not a surface but insist that it is
    curved. Would you care to enlighten us as to how that's possible?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 19 11:17:11 2025
    Den 18.01.2025 21:00, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:15:41 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 17.01.2025 22:17, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    The equation for the total deflection is:
       Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c²
    where:
      Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
      c = speed of light in vacuum
      G = gravitational constant
      M = solar mass
         
    The equation for the deflection observed from the Earth is:
      Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ)
    where:
     φ  = angle Star-Sun as observed from the Earth

    This equation is derived from the equation for total deflection
    with a bit of geometry.

    These equations are thoroughly confirmed to be correct because
    experiments have shown that their predictions are correct within
    the precision of the measurements, which are in the order of ±0.005%.

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf


    You must be extremely ignorant to think an experiment can prove a false
    derivation.


    The experiments say nothing about the correctness
    of any derivations, they only show that the equations
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² and Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ)  are correct.

    Since Poor claims that the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong,
    Poor is proven wrong.

    Do you really believe that the derivation was wrong but
    the result of the derivation was right?
    Possible, but not probable.

    The "4" in the equation comes from non-Euclidean geometry, "curved
    space." This derivation is incorrect because space is not a surface, so
    it does not curve. You keep deflecting from the derivation to the experiments. All I've been talking about is the derivation. Didn't you listen? If the experiments obtained correct results, that does not make
    the derivation correct. Don't be stupid. It doesn't make space curved.
    That is an elementary logical fallacy.

    I deduce from your statement:
    "If the experiments obtained correct results,
    that does not make the derivation correct."
    that you accept the fact that it is experimentally confirmed
    that the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct.

    Do you really believe that the derivation from GR is wrong,
    but the result of the wrong derivation is correct? :-D

    Nobody, not even you, can be that stupid.

    The fact that Einstein and a number of other physicists have
    calculated that GR predicts the experimentally verified equation
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² for the gravitational bending of light, prove that
    the derivation is correct.

    And since Poor claimed that the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c²
    was wrong, Poor is proven wrong.

    Or does your logic say otherwise?

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 19 11:32:32 2025
    Den 18.01.2025 22:30, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:15:41 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    The equation for the total deflection is:
       Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c²
    where:
      Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
      c = speed of light in vacuum
      G = gravitational constant
      M = solar mass
         
    The equation for the deflection observed from the Earth is:
      Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ)
    where:
     φ  = angle Star-Sun as observed from the Earth

    This equation is derived from the equation for total deflection
    with a bit of geometry.

    These equations are thoroughly confirmed to be correct because
    experiments have shown that their predictions are correct within
    the precision of the measurements, which are in the order of ±0.005%.

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf


    Do you really believe that the derivation was wrong but
    the result of the derivation was right?

    Paul you're doing astrology. I suppose you can tell my Sun sign!

    From your failure to answer the question I can tell you your answer:

    "Yes, I Laurence Clark Crossen believe that the derivation of
    the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² from GR is wrong, even if I know
    that the the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct."

    Wasn't I correct? Or was I correct? :-D


    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maciej Wozniak@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 19 13:45:29 2025
    W dniu 19.01.2025 o 11:17, Paul.B.Andersen pisze:
    Den 18.01.2025 21:00, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:15:41 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 17.01.2025 22:17, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    The equation for the total deflection is:
       Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c²
    where:
      Δ = the impact parameter, closest approach to Sun
      c = speed of light in vacuum
      G = gravitational constant
      M = solar mass
         
    The equation for the deflection observed from the Earth is:
      Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ)
    where:
     φ  = angle Star-Sun as observed from the Earth

    This equation is derived from the equation for total deflection
    with a bit of geometry.

    These equations are thoroughly confirmed to be correct because
    experiments have shown that their predictions are correct within
    the precision of the measurements, which are in the order of ±0.005%.

    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Hipparcos.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Shapiro_2004.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/Fomalont.pdf
    https://paulba.no/paper/PPN_gamma_Cassini_2.pdf


    You must be extremely ignorant to think an experiment can prove a false >>>> derivation.


    The experiments say nothing about the correctness
    of any derivations, they only show that the equations
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² and Θ = (2GM/Δ⋅c²)⋅(1 + cosφ)  are correct. >>>
    Since Poor claims that the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is wrong,
    Poor is proven wrong.

    Do you really believe that the derivation was wrong but
    the result of the derivation was right?
    Possible, but not probable.

    The "4" in the equation comes from non-Euclidean geometry, "curved
    space." This derivation is incorrect because space is not a surface, so
    it does not curve. You keep deflecting from the derivation to the
    experiments. All I've been talking about is the derivation. Didn't you
    listen? If the experiments obtained correct results, that does not make
    the derivation correct. Don't be stupid. It doesn't make space curved.
    That is an elementary logical fallacy.

    I deduce from your statement:
      "If the experiments obtained correct results,
       that does not make the derivation correct."
    that you accept the fact that it is experimentally confirmed
    that the equation Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² is correct.

    Do you really believe that the derivation from GR is wrong,
    but the result of the wrong derivation is correct? :-D

    Nobody, not even you, can be that stupid.

    It's rather oobvious it's quite probable, but
    a relativistic idiot, for sure, can be that
    stupid to insist it is not.



    The fact that Einstein and a number of other physicists have
    calculated that GR predicts the experimentally verified equation
    Θₜ = 4GM/Δ⋅c² for the gravitational bending of light,

    According to GR shot there is no bending of
    light, however. Oh, your idiot guru was quite
    an idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From LaurenceClarkCrossen@21:1/5 to Paul.B.Andersen on Sun Jan 19 14:57:26 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:22:05 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 13.01.2025 21:05, skrev J. J. Lodder:
    Paul.B.Andersen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Den 13.01.2025 06:07, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:

    And Einstein used a refraction formula to double the deflection=
    "photographic plates?

    I interpreted this as that Einstein somehow had "fixed"
    the predictions of GR to be in accordance with measurements
    shown on some photographic plates.

    In other words, LaurenceClarkCrossen claim that Einstein
    knew what the GR prediction should be to be in accordance
    with measurements.


    How ridiculous! :-D


    Point being that LaurenceClarkCrossen's claim that Einstein
    had "cooked" the GR prediction is nonsense.

    -Paul

    All your misquotes of me. Lies.
    Paul, even a child watching a clown pretend to bump into a wall, laughs, recognizing it as ridiculous. But you take the reification fallacy
    seriously and accept curved space or "space-space."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul.B.Andersen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 25 12:46:19 2025
    Den 17.01.2025 22:20, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:35:26 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 06:31, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    Euclidean geometry is for planes, and non-Euclidean geometry is for
    other surfaces, such as spheres. Space is not a curved surface.

    One can but admire your sharp observation that space is not a surface.

    It is sad that you can't recognize that non-Euclidean geometry applied
    to space is a reification fallacy because space is not a surface.

    This rather funny statement of yours reveals that the only
    non-Euclidean geometry you know is Gaussian geometry.

    Loosely explained, Gaussian geometry is about surfaces in 3-dimentinal Euclidean space. The shape of the surface is defined by a function
    f(x,y,z) where x,y,z are Cartesian coordinates.

    Note that we must use three coordinates to describe a 2-dimentional
    surface.

    ----

    Riemannian geometry is more general.
    Loosely explained, Riemannian geometry is about manifolds (spaces)
    of any dimensions. The "shape" of the manifold is described by
    the metric.

    The metric describes the length of a line element.

    The metric describing a flat 2D surface is:
    ds² = dx² + dy² (if Pythagoras is valid, the surface is flat)

    The metric describing a 2D spherical surface is:
    ds² = dθ² + sin²θ⋅dφ²

    Note that only two coordinates are needed to describe the surface.
    The coordinates are _in_ the surface, not in a 3D-space.

    ----------

    The metric for a "flat 3D-space" (Euclidean space) is:
    ds² = dx² + dy² + dy² (Pythagoras again!)

    The metric for a 3D-sphere is:
    ds² = dr² + r²dθ² + r²sin²θ⋅dφ²

    Note that only three coordinates are needed to describe
    the shape of a 3D space.

    ----------

    In spacetime geometry there is a four dimensional manifold called
    spacetime. The spacetime metric has four coordinates, one temporal
    and four spatial.

    The metric for a static flat spacetime is:
    ds² = − (c⋅dt)² + dx² + dy² + dz²

    If ds² is positive, the line element ds is space-like,
    If ds² is negative, the line element ds is time-like.

    In the latter case it is better to write the metric:
    (c⋅dτ)² = (c⋅dt)² − dx² − dy² − dz²

    If there is a mass present (Sun, Earth) spacetime will be curved.

    The metric for spacetime in the vicinity of a spherical mass is:
    See equation (2) in
    https://paulba.no/pdf/Clock_rate.pdf

    Note that there are four coordinates, t, r, θ and ϕ

    --------------------

    So to your parallel lines which you claim have to meet in curved space.

    Two points:
    1. In spacetime geometry, it is spacetime that is curved.

    2. What is a "line"? In Euclidean geometry we would say
    "a straight line". A more precise expression is a "geodesic line".

    In spacetime geometry the definition of "geodesic line" is rather
    complicated.
    But all free falling objects, including photons, are moving along
    geodesic lines. So let us consider light beams (the trajectory of
    a photon).

    Far out in space, where spacetime is quite flat,
    we have two parallel light beams.
    These light beam pass on either side of the Sun,
    where spacetime is curved.
    The light beams are gracing the Sun, and will be
    gravitationally deflected by 1.75".
    The light beams will then meet 274 AU after they passed the Sun.

    Parallel geodesic lines will meet.

    --
    Paul

    https://paulba.no/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 26 08:15:40 2025
    Am Samstag000025, 25.01.2025 um 12:46 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen:
    Den 17.01.2025 22:20, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:35:26 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

    Den 15.01.2025 06:31, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
    Euclidean geometry is for planes, and non-Euclidean geometry is for
    other surfaces, such as spheres. Space is not a curved surface.

    One can but admire your sharp observation that space is not a surface.

    It is sad that you can't recognize that non-Euclidean geometry applied
    to space is a reification fallacy because space is not a surface.

    This rather funny statement of yours reveals that the only
    non-Euclidean geometry you know is Gaussian geometry.

    Loosely explained, Gaussian geometry is about surfaces in 3-dimentinal Euclidean space. The shape of the surface is defined by a function
    f(x,y,z) where x,y,z are Cartesian coordinates.

    Note that we must use three coordinates to describe a 2-dimentional
    surface.

    ----

    Riemannian geometry is more general.
    Loosely explained,  Riemannian geometry is about manifolds (spaces)
    of any dimensions. The "shape" of the manifold is described by
    the metric.

    The metric describes the length of a line element.

    The metric describing a flat 2D surface is:
      ds² = dx² + dy²   (if Pythagoras is valid, the surface is flat)

    The metric describing a 2D spherical surface is:
      ds² = dθ² + sin²θ⋅dφ²

    Note that only two coordinates are needed to describe the surface.
    The coordinates are _in_ the surface, not in a 3D-space.

    ----------

    The metric for a "flat 3D-space" (Euclidean space) is:
     ds² = dx² + dy² + dy²   (Pythagoras again!)

    The metric for a 3D-sphere is:
     ds² = dr² + r²dθ² + r²sin²θ⋅dφ²

    Note that only three coordinates are needed to describe
    the shape of a 3D space.

    ----------

    In spacetime geometry there is a four dimensional manifold called
    spacetime. The spacetime metric has four coordinates, one temporal
    and four spatial.

    The metric for a static flat spacetime is:
     ds² = − (c⋅dt)²  + dx² + dy² + dz²

    If  ds² is positive, the line element ds is space-like,
    If ds² is negative, the line element ds is time-like.

    In the latter case it is better to write the metric:
     (c⋅dτ)² =  (c⋅dt)² − dx² − dy² − dz²

    It is a bad idea to give time a dimension of the same kind as space.

    I suggest to take imaginary numbers for time and real for space.

    Than a spacetime-diagramm would be kind of an Argand-diagram, where the
    axis of time is orthogonal to the axis of space (space axes are
    multiplied by i).

    Since space has three dimension and not only one, we nee to multiply the Argand-diagram by three ('pump it up') and would come to a construct
    called 'complex four vectors', also known as 'Bi-Quaternions'.

    These have eight components in four groups, which each are complex numbers.


    This seems to be the structure of spacetime, about which I have written
    this 'book':


    https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing


    TH

    ...

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